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Thread: Saku Koivu, Captain of Montreal Canadiens

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    Default Saku Koivu, Captain of Montreal Canadiens

    VI Saku Koivu, Captain of Finnish National Ice Hockey team and Captain of Montreal Canadiens.

    He is one of the view players I truly admire and even though he is not as skilled as some other stars out there he has some leadership qualities and "team spirit" which makes me drool for a boss like that. He always becomes a respected long term captain where ever he goes. He, I think, already has been captain of Montreal Canadiens apparently for longer than anyone else before him. And that is an achievement because they have the most demanding fans in hockey world and often the captain of Canadiens gets sacked quite quickly if there is not success.

    I have to have extemely positive type relations with him because every time I hear him talking makes me feel good . Also my wife likes him a lot. So what type is he?

    Here some pics:


    Here is a video talking about his character and interviewing him:
    [youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=L4n0IpUdefk[/youtube]

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    Default Re: VI Saku Koivu, Captain of Montreal Canadiens

    This is what I think currently...

    Clearly S-type.

    Very likely J-type.

    So some SJ: ESFj, ISFJ, ESTj, ISTj

    From here on I'm a bit lost. I have always thought of him as somewhat introvert. He doesn't talk when it is not required. He also has amazing battle spirit which suggests Se to me. He never backs down as long as his heart is still pumping.

    Someone suggested ESFj in another thread but I'm hesitant in accepting that. Why not e.g. ISFj? or even ISTj? ESTj...umm..something tells me not ESTj but...ugh.

    Se or Si type?
    Fe or Te type?
    Fi or Ti type?

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    ESFp. ENTj possible too
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    ESFp
    So p-type in the end...my dual? I would like a dual like that. ESFp would be a benefactor to my wife possibly so that would fit her too.

    Anyways if he is Gamma then they CAN have team spirit in the way I like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    ENTj
    Hmmmmmmm....those eyes seem sensory to me? But who knows. He doesn't sound at all like Expat in interviews.

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    Now that I remember one ISFj is not as fond of him as I am. I'm not sure if that means anything. These likings might be as much related to personal preference as type preference. I still think I would have positive relations with him whatever his type.

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    I think ENTj is more likely than ESFp. I could see ESTj too.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Ok...so far ESFj, ESTj, ENTj, ESFp. And I still stick to generic SJ.

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    i could see LSE as well. i think he's an Si type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    i could see LSE as well. i think he's an Si type.
    That would be consistent with me liking ESTjs. For some reason I haven't been able to see ESTj as the most probable of the SJ types but perhaps I'm a bit stuck with certain introverted nature I perceive from him (doesn't show in this interview though because he is trying hard to be social and such).

    However...he sort of VIs as Bruce Willis who is most likely ESTj. I also like Bruce Willis (not as much as Koivu though). My wife also like Bruce Willis (one of her favourite actors so we share something in common in our taste with people).

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    I think he has an ENTj smile, but I could accept ESFj too, I can't exactly see ESTj but it's possible.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Couple more pics...








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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    I think he has an ENTj smile, but I could accept ESFj too, I can't exactly see ESTj but it's possible.
    Do you think he looks a bit "softer" than Bruce Willis? How would you compare those two?

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Perhaps I'm a bit stuck with certain introverted nature I perceive from him (doesn't show in this interview though because he is trying hard to be social and such).
    I totally agree with this thing about Koivu's introverted nature. Not based on that video but other that I've seen. I think every Finnish ice hockey enthusiast has seen Koivu quite several times on TV.

    I'm not sure if I understand right, but I see in him such loyality, doing what you should, and such principles that, to me, indicate preference for over , which, to me, is more like being nice for all rather than sticking to what is right to do.

    That means I'd go for (ISFj).

    I'm not sure, however, if my understanding about introversion or / is correct.
    Intuition

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    My main reason against ESTj and ISFj is that he seems such a positivist
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    My main reason against ESTj and ISFj is that he seems such a positivist
    I don't have such understanding about Reinin dichotomies that I could say much about that. Neither do I have any typed personal experience about ISFjs. What about ESTj, ENTj or INFj then? Gamma or delta, right?
    Intuition

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    Here is ISFj for comparison with Bruce Willis who is ESTj:





    And yes FDG! He seems to be a positivist. The guy has had cancer and almost lost his eye. He showed amazing positivity (at least in public) in those situations. I would think a negativist would have had problems putting up a role of such a positivist. Would point away from ESTj and ISFj and towards ENTj and ESFp.

    Btw...can negativist be "fake positive" like trying to tell themselves and everyone that "it is going to be ok...it is going to be ok" in order to compensate for their internal negativity which tells them "no..it is unlikely that it is going to be ok".

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    ENTj
    Hmmmmmmm....those eyes seem sensory to me? But who knows. He doesn't sound at all like Expat in interviews.
    Ever seen an interview of mine?

    I am not being facetious or provocative. If you have to type by comparison, you have to try to use comparable circumstances. When giving an interview to a tv journalist, especially as a public figure, I might even sound like him. Not sure. And when discussing, in deeper detail, a specific subject, in writing, he might just sound like me. Again, not sure.

    What you're doing is building up a totally subjective image of my personality and comparing it to your - probably idealized - vision of his personality, especiallyof him as a private rather than public person.

    For what is worth, more than one person in this forum who has talked to me on the phone has said that I sound very differently from what they thought based on how and what I write here.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    ENTj
    Hmmmmmmm....those eyes seem sensory to me? But who knows. He doesn't sound at all like Expat in interviews.
    Ever seen an interview of mine?

    I am not being facetious or provocative. If you have to type by comparison, you have to try to use comparable circumstances. When giving an interview to a tv journalist, especially as a public figure, I might even sound like him. Not sure. And when discussing, in deeper detail, a specific subject, in writing, he might just sound like me. Again, not sure.

    What you're doing is building up a totally subjective image of my personality and comparing it to your - probably idealized - vision of his personality, especiallyof him as a private rather than public person.

    For what is worth, more than one person in this forum who has talked to me on the phone has said that I sound very differently from what they thought based on how and what I write here.
    Heh. Ok. I should have said "In interviews he sounds different from what Expat 'sounds' here". What you 'sound' here is of course a work of my imagination or 'intuition'. It is very true that people seem different IRL than on Internet forums which is why there is often some surprise when you meet someone for the first time (but not always, e.g. Joy and dj seemed to 'click' both here and IRL). Now I'm quite sure that if someone would meet me in real life there would be a similar surprise because currently I'm apparently giving an impression of power obsessive, overly competitive and emotionally volatile person here. If you'd spend time with me in IRL (a long time) then perhaps you could see some emotional volatility related to stressful situations and you might even notice the competitive side of me under certain circumstances (but not as a general rule). I don't think anyone would think of me of someone who is obsessed about power even if I'm secrectly aware of the existing power balances. It is very rare that I have or use power over someone else. I can be slightly controlling though in issues important to me though.

    And yes what I'm doing is building a totally subjective image of you and probably even of him and comparing them. I guess that is again offensive? I didn't think it is such a serious issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    And yes what I'm doing is building a totally subjective image of you and probably even of him and comparing them. I guess that is again offensive? I didn't think it is such a serious issue.
    That is not offensive, I am just saying it's not good for typing.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    And yes what I'm doing is building a totally subjective image of you and probably even of him and comparing them. I guess that is again offensive? I didn't think it is such a serious issue.
    That is not offensive, I am just saying it's not good for typing.
    You are promoting extreme Te here as the "proper" way to type where some INTjs are promoting extreme Ti and so on. But really, any function can be used to type accurately. This is not to say that I necessarily personally type accurately. Or to say that if you want to communicate your views to others for verification then rational and especially logical functions are most useful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    But really, any function can be used to type accurately.
    A very -- interesting claim.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    But really, any function can be used to type accurately.
    A very -- interesting claim.
    I didn't build a case how e.g. Fe could be used for typing Anyways it would be biased to say that one function is essential in typing as that would basically mean certain types are born to be better at typing people and certain types are born to suck at it. There should be more proof to make this kind of discriminating claim than their currently is. If there exists such imbalance in one ability then this implies that imbalances exist elsewhere too e.g. some types are naturally more intelligent, some type are unsuitable for leadership positions, some types can't become this and that etc etc which is the kind of discrimination many companies use MBTI for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Anyways it would be biased to say that one function is essential in typing as that would basically mean certain types are born to be better at typing people and certain types are born to suck at it. .
    Would you say that any function is equally essential to reading or doing maths, and that it would be "discriminating" to say otherwise?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Anyways it would be biased to say that one function is essential in typing as that would basically mean certain types are born to be better at typing people and certain types are born to suck at it. .
    Would you say that any function is equally essential to reading or doing maths, and that it would be "discriminating" to say otherwise?
    Let's say...a function is essential in doing some thing in a certain way. E.g. approach maths from a certain direction. Learning the rules of abstract math is different from using math to solve objective problems which is different from using math in some other context (e.g. using mathematical principles to answer philosophical questions). This is manifested in e.g. how I get an excellent grade from some math courses but struggle in some others. So it depends on which way you approach math which functions are most useful.

    So...when trying to understand and use socionics in different contexts many different approaches and functions can be utilized. But ok, in a very limited context such as "finding someone's socionics type by applying theoretical socionics constructs and principles to person's subjective self-perceptions and perceived interaction style on an internet forum" there may be one or more functions which are more useful than others. This makes me wonder can you type someone based only on how their scientific dissertation or research paper topic is constructed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX

    Let's say...a function is essential in doing some thing in a certain way. E.g. approach maths from a certain direction. Learning the rules of abstract math is different from using math to solve objective problems which is different from using math in some other context (e.g. using mathematical principles to answer philosophical questions). This is manifested in e.g. how I get an excellent grade from some math courses but struggle in some others. So it depends on which way you approach math which functions are most useful.
    this is true, but it doesn't mean that all functions are of equal use in mathematics. it should be obvious that LIIs and ILEs have certain approaches and understandings of math, while LIEs might have a very different idea of what math is and find the LII/ILE math completely impractical and worthless (ie what good do highly obscure "math team-esque" problems really do?)

    nonetheless, this still doesn't necessarily mean that math is approachable from all angles. what good, for example, is SiFe for deciphering math problems?

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    nonetheless, this still doesn't necessarily mean that math is approachable from all angles. what good, for example, is SiFe for deciphering math problems?
    Which of course does not mean, at all, that SiFe types can't be good at math.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    nonetheless, this still doesn't necessarily mean that math is approachable from all angles. what good, for example, is SiFe for deciphering math problems?
    Which of course does not mean, at all, that SiFe types can't be good at math.
    obviously; but the Si and Fe are not likely to be the sources of an alpha SF's mathematical aptitude.

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