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Thread: IEI - SLE Duality discussion and stories (INFp-ESTp)

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    Default IEI - SLE Duality discussion and stories (INFp-ESTp)

    This excerpt is from quite a poignant analysis of Socionics in the German Section of www.socioniko.narod.ru by Reinhard Landwehr. I thought I could save time by using the BabelFish translation but it seems it easily takes more time trying to correct the nonsense Altavista garbles, rather than translating the text manually from the beginning till the end. The text remains a bit clumsy and unnatural but hopefully still quite understandable.

    Reinhard LANDWEHR (born on the 22 of September 1947)
    ReinhardLandwehr@aol.com
    Social scientist, lives in Bielefeld (Nordrhein-Westfalen). Publications on typecasting in the regional research, the use of information in rational decision making processes and anomalies in the behaviour of investors. Became aware of Socionics in 2002 because of an Internet Search-engine.
    Socionics Type: Analyst (Robespierre) (INTJ)

    The Socionics types
    In the first phase of the development of Socionics the Socionists concentrated on choosing the pseudonyms for their 16 types and on drafting their personality profiles. Thus Aushra Augusta analyzed approximately 500 well-known personalities with her socionics method. Two examples can illustrate this psychological work of the socionists: sensory-logical extravert or the strategist, which as type ideal is represented by the Russian field marshal Zhukov, who is characterized as "unemotional, on effectiveness aligned human being", for whom only the "the end result" matters. In order to illustrate its reduced emotional world more closely, it is further stated: "He seldom gives in to fear, hatred, and other negative emotions, rarely gets surprised and rarely envies. The more dangerous the situation, the more self-disciplined and resolute he becomes." This illustration of a robotic human being is further still resumed: Strategist "does not like to speak about feelings: this is not his line. And if by chance such words slip out, he feels as if he betrayed himself. He is afraid of emotional love, considering it an undeserved luxury. He is anxious of other feelings as well. Perceiving others to be just like him, he has no doubt that he may be desired, but he is seldom sure he can also be loved.". But not only the poverty and the fear of feelings characterize a "Zhukov" on the pages about socionics humor in the Internet one can find still another further characteristic, its missing linguistic nuances: "When a Zhukov says Yes" ", it means yes ", if he says “no", it means no and if he says "maybe" he is a Don Quixote."

    The intuitive-ethical Introvert or "lyricist", which in the Socionics is usually embodied by the Russian poet Yesenin, is characterized as "a somewhat quixotic romantic, who easily falls in love and is infatuated." The "Lyricist" is seen as a person, who is "prone more to reflection than action" and its emotional world is diametrically opposed to that of the strategist: "His emotionality is of a high enough level, he understands very well the feelings of another and does not hide his own. " The Socionists do not find their classifications, however, alone by drawing conclusions based on the biographies of prominent representatives, they are above all good observers of their fellow men, who pay attention to their clothes and body language. Thus the "poet" is described for example as having an "elegant appearance", he leaves his dwelling "steady and upright". It is stated then further: "He practically never squints his wide-open eyes. Typically, he is not prone to lower his arch-shaped eyebrows", one believes one can already almost imagine "a Yesenin " before one's eyes. But one can even hear him; because not only "One can seldom see him in a non-aesthetic pose" and he moves "with plastic and rhythmic movements", but even "his voice intonations are also refined", as it is said in description of its type. If one did not yet identify "poets" despite all these references, a house visit can provide the final clarity. Those who love order are then deterred by "a true chaos", in which the lyrical householder does not even offer a place to his guests, but leaves this difficult task in his not cleared up dwelling to them.

    Perhaps happiness in relationships then depends less on the relations of duality than on the respective persons involved, because also in terms of their emotionality so different "Strategist" and "Lyricist" are a dual pair, who must find themselves in a constant clinch over sentimentalism and emotional coldness, which only masochists can experience as enriching their lives.


    No wonder most people do not take Socionics seriously.

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    As I understand and personal experience too, dual relations also have conflict, it's just that conflict leads to understanding and mutual defense of partners instead of something else(like more conflict and misunderstanding, as in conflict relations). In fact, conflict is necessary although less common for dualization.
    This is one of the most beautifull things in duality. Having conflict and then suddenly realizing her improtance and you and her become even more close.

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    One potential problem with duality could be that it ensures the most efficient distribution of duties as the parties have fully supportive functions, but is seems to me that there could be lack of common interests and things to talk about that could cause problems in the long run.
    Well put. That is most definitely a HUGE barrier, especially in the begining stages of development. But given enough time together, duals start to realize that they understand one another on a subconscious level, and therefore words are more or less meaningless. Actions are what matter to dual pairs, which is why you can say incredibly offensive things to your dual after knowing them for a few months and they will not be offended, but will rather laugh, because your dual will almost NEVER say something that burns them to their very soul (affecting weakest conscious function). Duals know how to tease the other without saying something that will truly hurt, although that does not mean that there is no pain in such realtionships. I myself have caused great emotional pain to two ESFjs that I have known, but only because I could not bring myself to commit myself to a relationship with one of them (as hard as it was for me to do). And the other because we were living together and we'd have all the emotional dynamics of a married couple (even though we weren't dating one another) but none of the physical aspects. This formed sort of an incomplete duality that frustrated the hell out of me, and caused me irritation, even though I was as guilty for not creating something more, as she was. It's a fantasitc relationship, but it's not always perfect. And there are so many environmental facors to account for that it is rare that duals have the opportunity to spend quality uninterrupted time together giving them the chance to begin forging the relationship.

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    In fact, I see lots of examples of practical cooperation between these types when I watch TV reports from the Duma. ESTp and ISTj are very "rough", straightforwarded in communication, and sometimes they say or do something wrong that spoils their reputation. Then, INFP comes to the stage and says: we misunderstood him, he strived only for the good, let us consider his deeds once again and forgive him. INFP is a good diplomat, a good-looking "alter Ego" of ESTP. And these two types can well cooperate: ESTP is decisive, he "makes things work", provides resources and power, while INFP is a diplomat that justifies harsh actions of ESTP by good perspectives that will come as a result of his deeds.

    Well, in Russia we already had such tandems: Lenin (ESTP) and Bukharin (INFP), the last was called "the favorite of the party" and was respected also by Western politicians, although he was a Bolshevik by his mentality, smiling, tolerant, but a Bolshevik anyway. The role of INFP in politics is often to justify "decisive" leaders and to make small corrections to their actions in order to make the regime look "milder". Another INFP in Russian politics was Mikhail Kalinin, the formal head of the state under Stalin (formally, Stalin was nothing in the state hierarchy until 1941). People believed: Stalin can punish, but Kalinin can justify. Yes, Kalinin was really a good person, but did it all make sense? Out of 10 persons arrested by order of Stalin, 1 or 2 could be later justified by Kalinin, and the rest sentenced to death.
    www.socioniko.net is no longer my site.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dmitri Lytov
    Well, in Russia we already had such tandems: Lenin (ESTP) and Bukharin (INFP), the last was called "the favorite of the party" and was respected also by Western politicians, although he was a Bolshevik by his mentality, smiling, tolerant, but a Bolshevik anyway. The role of INFP in politics is often to justify "decisive" leaders and to make small corrections to their actions in order to make the regime look "milder". Another INFP in Russian politics was Mikhail Kalinin, the formal head of the state under Stalin (formally, Stalin was nothing in the state hierarchy until 1941). People believed: Stalin can punish, but Kalinin can justify. Yes, Kalinin was really a good person, but did it all make sense? Out of 10 persons arrested by order of Stalin, 1 or 2 could be later justified by Kalinin, and the rest sentenced to death.
    what a pity...

    if it's a friendship or a romantic relationship, i don't think the ESTP will be having such an easy time if s/he operates on a 'harsh' mode all the time.

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    No, he does not!

    ESTP is in a "harsh mode" only for those whom he consider "aliens", "not our people". As for his loved ones (for example family members), he/she is very caring. But he of course requires some obedience from them. For INFP, obedience is not something unusual, because he/she usually does not like to demonstrate initiative in unpleasant affairs, in the fight for interests.
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    But well, well, well... why do we discuss only politicians? A good example of a loving pair INFP - ESTP is the married couple Mstislav Rostropovich (conductor, INFP) - Galina Vishnevskaya (opera singer, ESTP). I think they are known in the West.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dmitri Lytov
    But well, well, well... why do we discuss only politicians? A good example of a loving pair INFP - ESTP is the married couple Mstislav Rostropovich (conductor, INFP) - Galina Vishnevskaya (opera singer, ESTP). I think they are known in the West.
    A good example is me and my husband. In our household, INFP/ESTP duality goes something like this. My ESTP husband comes in the room chanting something like...this, "pinch the nipple...pinch the nipple...I"M GOING TO PINCH THE NIPPLE." I cover my boobs and say something like...this, "Stttttoooopppp, leave me alone. OUCH! That hurts. You bastard! get aaaawwwwwwayyyyy....go play on your playstation." Husband stops all of a sudden and says..."Hmm, good idea." And walks away. Leaving me to muse over life's purpose once again.

    Ummm....let's seee further examples....
    ESTP husband is watching John Stewart or listening to Stephanie Miller and says..."I really do hate Dubya...no..you know what babe? I REALLY hate those people in those southern red states for voting that fucking idiot into office." *I interupt and say, "I thought you said he STOLE the election, now you say they VOTED him into office" He did steal the election. But still, those people are soooooo stupid! And I respond by saying, "just because Bush has funny looking ears, that doesn't make him a reptilian alien with a mission to bring on armageddon. He's just doing what he thinks is right. If you were president..." *This is where he interupts and TELLS ME* "I'd sure as hell not fuck it up like Dubya is doing.

    That's it. Really. It's just back and forth endless teasing. With a constant sense of contentment. I never had to reason out or choose to be with the man. I just felt the calmest, most comfortable, most loved, I've ever felt. My feelings love him because his presence contributes a constant ease. I need ease. I need an EASY relationship.

    This is my favorite of the poems I've dedicated to him.

    You're such an asshole.
    You have no soul
    Just an empty hole
    Asshole

    It's luvvv I tell you.

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    it's something similar with my mom. without the nipples part of course!

    you're new around here? welcome
    http://forum.socionix.com

    I don't see what's so important about the possibility of extraterrestrial life. It's just more people to declare war on.

    EVERYONE PLZ CONTINUE TO UPLOAD INFINITE AMOUNT OF PICS OF "CUTE" CATS AND PUPPIES. YOU KNOW WE GIVE A SHIT!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by krae
    it's something similar with my mom. without the nipples part of course!
    So you saaayyyy....

    you're new around here? welcome
    Yes, and thanks for the welcome. I've been over at inpf.globalchatter.com under the same username. Sorry to barge in here like I did. I do appreciate the welcome.

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    I'm back, assholes! Herzy's Avatar
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    Lol, your husband is awesome! haha
    , Se-sub
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous
    That's it. Really. It's just back and forth endless teasing. With a constant sense of contentment. I never had to reason out or choose to be with the man. I just felt the calmest, most comfortable, most loved, I've ever felt. My feelings love him because his presence contributes a constant ease. I need ease. I need an EASY relationship.

    This is my favorite of the poems I've dedicated to him.

    You're such an asshole.
    You have no soul
    Just an empty hole
    Asshole

    It's luvvv I tell you.
    I LUV this poem hysterical. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.

    Topaz
    The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.

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    Default INFp + ESTp relationship

    I'm an INFP, he's an ESTP. Most of the time, we balance each other out...but since we're both 'p', neither one of us is a very good planner and neither one of us is extremely grounded...

    Any INFP/ESTP relationships here? Any tips???


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    ESTp/INFp is a relationship of duality, which is what it sounds like, the best possible according to socionics.

    The fact that you're both perceivers actually helps it work - - ESTj with INFp is actually a relationship of conflict.

    So what is the problem?

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    I am in a relationship of duality: INFp/ESTp

    What would you like to know?

    On neither being a good planner - that is very true. However, for urgent things, spiritual crisis or other such unusual situations, one of us can usually be pretty sensible about the whole thing.

    But I can guarantee that we will spend our entire married life poor

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    Creepy-Supermann

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    tell us everything, ishy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Supermann
    tell us everything, ishy!


    I will think of a response, in the meantime please post any specific questions you have so I can answer them regardless of how long it takes me to figure out what "everything" entails

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    Quote Originally Posted by ishysquishy
    But I can guarantee that we will spend our entire married life poor
    True. Wouldn't want it any other way. Picnics, bike rides, doggy beach, walks...not having money makes us resort to these fun inexpensive past times. I prefer being poor. Kids are out of the question. That just means MORE fun time together enjoying life's bliss. I swear, we are never going to grow up! Students for life. Just keep getting degrees and never getting a job. Our student loans are CRAZY.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maizemedley
    Quote Originally Posted by ishysquishy
    But I can guarantee that we will spend our entire married life poor
    True. Wouldn't want it any other way. Picnics, bike rides, doggy beach, walks...not having money makes us resort to these fun inexpensive past times. I prefer being poor. Kids are out of the question. That just means MORE fun time together enjoying life's bliss. I swear, we are never going to grow up! Students for life. Just keep getting degrees and never getting a job. Our student loans are CRAZY.
    Yeah, I'd MUCH rather go and enjoy running around outside with an INFp, then say, buying a plasma TV for our livingroom. As long as I have a job that's really fulfilling, I wouldn't mind not having $3934908309430984 to spend.
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    Don't talk about money in front of the INFps!

    *stupid INFp uncovered article*

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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    Well I went out with an ESTp once. Didn't go well, but that was when I was younger. Don't really talk to him now, but he is trying to sort of initiate contact with me, which I welcome. We're probably gonna start talking once again.

    The thing is, I just can't see how we could be Duals. I read somewhere that one type thinks another type is insignificant, while the other vice versa.. ?


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    Oh, that's only right at the initial stage. Like the extroverted one will at first overlook the introverted one, and the introverted one will tend to think the extrovert one is "too good" for them at the beginning. But then it all changes really quickly.

    And INFps are definately my duals. My best friend is an INFp, and that's the exact same pattern that we went through at the very beginning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
    Well I went out with an ESTp once. Didn't go well, but that was when I was younger. Don't really talk to him now, but he is trying to sort of initiate contact with me, which I welcome. We're probably gonna start talking once again.

    The thing is, I just can't see how we could be Duals. I read somewhere that one type thinks another type is insignificant, while the other vice versa.. ?
    What about ESTj's.. how do you do with them?
    thing.

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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    The thing is, I don't think there are any similarities between me and ESTps at all, in general. The ESTp I went out with though, he's of the nicer, gentler breed ... most ESTps I know just really, really annoy me.

    Herz, that wouldn't apply to me because well, it was the other way around.

    MySaviour, I haven't really been in any relationships with ESTjs... and I don't know if I can identify any that I am friends with. Hmm... but something about their whole description, I do admire. I think maybe my business teacher is an ESTj and I have a strange attraction to him. Geez, I can't believe I said that

    Yes, I know you probably think I'm an INFj. I still wonder.


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    I just wanted to say that it's uhm, awesome? Both parties can feel spontaneous and just do unplanned shit. The INFp never says too many "no" to the ESTp proposals, unless they're really really really stupid, so time just flows by chatting either about nothing, or about really deep shit, or doing stuff/going places, or making out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    I just wanted to say that it's uhm, awesome? Both parties can feel spontaneous and just do unplanned shit. The INFp never says too many "no" to the ESTp proposals, unless they're really really really stupid, so time just flows by chatting either about nothing, or about really deep shit, or doing stuff/going places, or making out.
    You have the gift of describing things as they are in a simple way.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    I just wanted to say that it's uhm, awesome? Both parties can feel spontaneous and just do unplanned shit. The INFp never says too many "no" to the ESTp proposals, unless they're really really really stupid, so time just flows by chatting either about nothing, or about really deep shit, or doing stuff/going places, or making out.
    You have the gift of describing things as they are in a simple way.
    Though I'm also capable of reificating essential syncategorematic connectors into a metaphisical enquiry, in order to break the first metalayer of reality, if shit hits the fan.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    so time just flows by chatting either about nothing, or about really deep shit, or doing stuff/going places, or making out.

    nail on the head! LOL

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    Though I'm also capable of reificating essential syncategorematic connectors into a metaphisical enquiry, in order to break the first metalayer of reality, if shit hits the fan.
    I love it when ESTPs go from 'simple and casual' to using big words and big people. It's like *FANS SELF*

    MySaviour, I haven't really been in any relationships with ESTjs... and I don't know if I can identify any that I am friends with. Hmm... but something about their whole description, I do admire. I think maybe my business teacher is an ESTj and I have a strange attraction to him. Geez, I can't believe I said that

    Yes, I know you probably think I'm an INFj. I still wonder.
    Hmmmmm. Strange attraction is usually duality. Like I can be attract to all of the different types but would they last...different sort of attraction, you can tell the difference like... duality attraction is you don't feel nervous/weird telling the other person things, you just sorta falls together and into place...whereas the different attraction, if you think before you talk, measure what you say and what you do, feel a tension instead of ease...
    INFP

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    That's it. Really. It's just back and forth endless teasing. With a constant sense of contentment. I never had to reason out or choose to be with the man. I just felt the calmest, most comfortable, most loved, I've ever felt. My feelings love him because his presence contributes a constant ease. I need ease. I need an EASY relationship.
    exactly the type of relationship i have with my INFp male
    Yesterday I knew nothing, today I know that.

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    Default Evolution of ESTp/INFp duality...

    Some of you may know this situation from reading other posts. Basically ive decided to make a thread about the progression of a daul relationship, conveniently enough...my own.
    So the story goes...
    -him: INFp me:ESTp
    -We work together
    -he's 18 yrs older
    -infp 3x divorced, currently going through one

    We worked in the same office for a while, constantly bickering/flerting...over a couple months time I guess you can say we developed an admiration for each other...very obvious. After those couple months at a work function (alcohol involved) we ended up hooking up...big time. The best, i thought of it as completey casual and fun. I was absent from work for two weeks, i had a task elsewhere, so i didn't see him at all. After I returned to work, I saw him briefly in a hall and we talked and you could feel the tension/attraction (both very positive) and we have a small conversation, I found out he recieved a tasking that's a month long. I have seen him twice since the firest time in the hall. Again about a week later, I saw him in passing and there was a very werid atmosphere talking to him and walking. We hardly looked at each other and the conversation seemed bleh. Then I saw him again in the little canteen we have at work, and he I asked for something from the girl who works behind the counter, and he handed me what I needed, but I didnt take it from him I just said thats not what I had particularly wanted. He was not a part of this conversation but involved himself in it briefly anyway. After he got what he needed he proceeded to hastly exit from the canteen.

    Up to now, that's all that's occured. Like I stated, I thought of it as just a casual and fun thing, but I realized after not seeing him for so long that I actually missed him, and when I saw him for the first time after those two weeks, I knew I had some sort of feeling for him. The situation is complicated by the fact he's going through a divorce and I was probably just a young play thing for him for that night...which of course I didnt mind...AT ALL! AHA, best repeated sex ever...by repeated I mean all night, all morning and afternoon long...completely mind blowing.

    What Im wondering about is this last two times Ive seen him, both were very breif...what's going on? Is he just disinterested or is this how INFp behaves? And why do they behave like so and for what reasons. Im still very fresh about learning about INFps...

    I forgot to add the fact that I emailed him my number, he read it about a week after I sent it to him he read the email and nothing...I get read-reciepts when someone opens my emails.



    ................This blows.
    Yesterday I knew nothing, today I know that.

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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    Aww.. omg =[ I feel for you, ISTP (what's your real name?)

    This is strange, yes. Being 18 years younger than him can really eff up whatever good was had, you know? It sucks that it is Duality.. and I love it how you say you actually realized you missed him. Aww, ESTps realizing they have true feelings for someone = <3 Yep, INFps.. well, this does sound a bit sketchy that he is not replying to your email =[ Not to make you feel worse, but if I was in that situation and I really felt strongly, I would waste no time. I think Betazoids are similar in this fact - if there is a connection, we waste NO time into jumping straight into something... don't see the point in really waiting.

    Well, there is still hope and I say since it *is* Duality.. go and GET him.. maybe he's just being passive and feels bad about the whole sex with a younger woman thing? :S Though I am not sure what male would really feel bad about that, since you are very good looking. All in all, don't stress over it too much, just grab him by the throat and be like.. "Yo... let's... get together.."


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    Well you see, previously whenever I would send him an email, unrelated to our "situation" (work-related) and what not, he wouldnt reply. I dont think he's ever replied to my emails. Generally whatever it was that needed a response, he would find me and we'd discus it in person. There was only one time, that he sent me one, and it was a comical one making fun of men. All he stated in it was " thought you might like this..." and then the message followed..it was quite funny. Reason why he sent me the male-bashing email is because a lot of our quirky arguments and whatnot always stemmed from his supposed hate for women (his ex hurt him really bad) and my hate towards men (really bad previous experiences). It was basicaly all joking and what not and he thought i'd like it because it was bashing men.
    Yesterday I knew nothing, today I know that.

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    Two things possible:

    1.) He's old enough not to be as comfortable communicating so intimately/informallly via email.
    2.) Honestly, INFps can be passive-agressive. He may be trying to send you a message he's not comfortable saying outright, in which case you're better off letting him go.

    Actually, one more possibility: He might just be nervous about calling... although you did mention you two had sex (and then some), so I'm not sure what there is to be shy about at this point, lol.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Actually, one more possibility: He might just be nervous about calling... although you did mention you two had sex (and then some), so I'm not sure what there is to be shy about at this point, lol.
    Well...I dont know what it could be honestly. We're in the military, and there's the whole issue of rank. Seeing as how he's up there, and im just a private, could be a big cause for concern. I dont really see how it could be one, from my point of view; if we just kept our mouths shut. I want to say that I would love for this to be just a casual thing if anything, but I honestly cannot. I think if I had the choice between seeing him casually and never seeing him again in my life...I would probably choose the latter (after hooking up with him one more time AHAH..yes...it was THAT great!). I think about him constantly and sometimes I'll pass him on base when Im going somewhere at lunch or whereever...and if im having the worst day...it completely changes. I just get all giddy and what not, and that generally doesnt happen with me too often. I think it'd be more painful to see him casually and not be able to have a real relationship than never seeing him agian. Sort of like forbidden fruit, you can smell it but can't take the bit. It sucks ass.

    I think these feelings for him are starting to make me sound like a psycho-chick, all needy and shit but I can't help it. I hate the fact that I'm like this, because I hate it when i see other chicks behaving or thiking the way I am right now. I feel totally girlie-girl.
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    If you think THAT'S psycho, you should see the kind of things INFps write about their sweethearts. The feeling is usually mutual.

    Intra-military relationships are actually getting more and more commonplace. I guess the isolating nature of service/training makes it work pretty well. I can understand the rank aspect. That, in combination with your age difference makes things kind of awkward. It may be the case that he sees you more as his "young plaything" which, for him at least, may exclude your viability as relationship material. Also, keeping in mind that the guy's had three divorces already... he might be a bit gun-shy at this point at the prospect of getting involved with yet another woman so soon.

    I'm not sure what to tell you... if things DON'T work out, I don't think you've got anything to worry about. ESTps are resilient, if anything. You're young, attractive, and have <- all this will work in your favor, and you will almost certainly come across someone else sometime in the near future who will be great in bed and make you go all giggly. Like heath said, there actually isn't really a paucity of INFp guys in the military. They seem susceptible to recruitment campaigns.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    From a purely Socionics perspective --

    In a ESTp-INFp duality, it is for the ESTp to provide the initiative (as the extrovert) and "take charge" (as the ) and have the certainty of things (as the ). The INFp is to respond, and have the perception of how far to go and of the possible consequences ( ) and of the emotional state of the relationship ( ).

    What I think may be happening is that the external circumstances work against that kind of duality. My guess is that the INFp doesn't really know what he wants and is sort of passive and indecisive; in more neutral circumstances it would be up to the ESTp to take charge. I suspect it sort of happened already, when you actually got together. But in the context of the military, and as he's the guy, a work colleague, and of superior rank, you can't really act as the ESTp "would" and be more assertive.

    His not replying to mails can be the general passivity/indecisiveness, or just a concern about saying anything of that nature to a private over e-mail.

    Again, I suspect he probably doesn't know what he wants or what to do of even if he's supposed to do anything.
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    Yeah, we'll see how this goes...I feel pretty rejected, therefore I kinda want to crush him. However, at the same time I feel bad for thinking that way because I like him, and I can understand the situation he's in right now. Besides, whatever happend...happend because it was inevitable. I guess this trun out was inevitable as well. Can't mess with what's meat to be.
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    Default estp broke my infp heart

    Hey guys, first time poster here. I was hoping if you could provide any insight to me on my confusing break up.

    I was dating a guy for a month. He is definitely an estp: charming, hilarious, hyper social, whipsmart, thrill seeking. We met on a dating site; don't think i would ever meet a guy like him in a regular social setting!

    I was amazed at how comfortable we were together. It's like we had known each other for years. Close friends know I'm sarcastic, funny and smart, but it usually takes awhile for that side to come out. This guy brought it out of me immediately. Plus, there was amazing sexual chemistry, we couldn't stop touching each other, kissing, etc. He said to me that he was able to open up to me more than most girls. I forced him in my own way to be honest with me. He said, "OK. I dont do that with girls...but for you, I will."

    Now here's the confusing part. He broke up with me after a month stating: "You're amazing, smart, funny, interesting, beautiful and I'm very attracted to you, but...there is something intangible missing when I'm with you." I then learned about his past loves and they all seemed to stem from an intense passion and lust for the woman. He's been "in love" five times, but only two of those were relationships. The others were unrequited loves.

    Is this common for estps? For them to only view love in a fast and furious way? I tend to let my feelings develop, based on trust and friendship.

    Sigh. Is there anyway to change his mind? I feel like he gave up on somethng that could've been great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pandagirl View Post
    Sigh. Is there anyway to change his mind?
    No



    That is an unfortunate situation.

    May I ask how old you all are? If he's very young, it may just be a maturity thing. Some people, however, just never want to settle down. I do not think that all people of one type, however, do not want to settle down. My uncle is ESTp and a very loving father and husband.
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