View Poll Results: What is your Quadra and your opinion about "team spirit"?

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  • I'm Alpha and I prefer a team with a good "team spirit" over a team with bad "team spirit"

    6 16.67%
  • I'm Beta and I prefer a team with a good "team spirit" over a team with bad "team spirit"

    3 8.33%
  • I'm Gamma and I prefer a team with a good "team spirit" over a team with bad "team spirit"

    3 8.33%
  • I'm Delta and I prefer a team with a good "team spirit" over a team with bad "team spirit"

    5 13.89%
  • I'm Alpha and I don't notice or care about "team spirit" or I find the concept irritating

    3 8.33%
  • I'm Beta and I don't notice or care about "team spirit" or I find the concept irritating

    5 13.89%
  • I'm Gamma and I don't notice or care about "team spirit" or I find the concept irritating

    7 19.44%
  • I'm Delta and I don't notice or care about "team spirit" or I find the concept irritating

    4 11.11%
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Thread: What is your opinion about "team spirit"

  1. #1
    XoX's Avatar
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    Default What is your opinion about "team spirit"

    So how do you feel about "team spirit".

    I define team spirit here as:
    team spirit - the spirit of a group that makes the members want the group to succeed
    (from free dictionary)

    Here is an article that more or less talks about the same thing:
    http://www.oecdobserver.org/news/ful...p/aid/513.html

    The options are:
    1) I prefer a team with a good "team spirit" over a team with bad "team spirit"
    2) I don't notice or care about "team spirit" or I find the concept irritating

    In the poll you choose your Quadra and one of these choices. I want to research whether this is individual thing or Quadra/Function related.

    If you want to you can discuss the matter here and bring up new points which can affect how you see teams (e.g. nationality, upbringing, political opinion, education, gender, ...)

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    Just the phrase "team spirit" makes me want to vomit.

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    This sounds like it has to do with emotivism vs. constructivism.

    I care about "team spirit" because it's essential to make sure stuff gets done.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    Indifference. If there is an emphasis on team spirit, I'll play along for the experience of it, even if I don't buy into the team ideals. If there is no sense of team spirit, it doesn't hinder my ability to work. Just being in a group motivates me to put forth effort because of the fact that what I do now has consequences for others.
    IEI subtype

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    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
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    I enjoy being part of a team and working towards a common goal, but only if that goal is something I really want to achieve. I do find the concept of "team spirit" irritating not just because it's a cliched buzzword, but because usually people implement it under the assumption that everybody is equally enthusiastic, hard-working, and subservient. A union of the willing is best. Also, "team spirit" is not essential to success, I think, but it makes work more fun.

    It is difficult for me to find people who share my interests, so in most cases working alone is best. I have no desire to become part of a corporation. But the academic collaborations (i.e., working on a programming team) that I have experienced were mostly positive. I actually like becoming a leader, a motivator in that type of situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Indifference. If there is an emphasis on team spirit, I'll play along for the experience of it, even if I don't buy into the team ideals. If there is no sense of team spirit, it doesn't hinder my ability to work. Just being in a group motivates me to put forth effort because of the fact that what I do now has consequences for others.
    This is how I picture INFps to be in general. Detached but still involved, heh.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    I enjoy being part of a team and working towards a common goal, but only if that goal is something I really want to achieve. I do find the concept of "team spirit" irritating not just because it's a cliched buzzword, but because usually people implement it under the assumption that everybody is equally enthusiastic, hard-working, and subservient. A union of the willing is best. Also, "team spirit" is not essential to success, I think, but it makes work more fun.
    yeah.

    I always feel the need to work as a team and I like group projects as well. I feel lonely when I have to work alone and I often feel that I'm missing out on something. To me, unity is strength. However, I will be irritated if I have to work with members who are more interested in social loafing rather than working together as a team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129
    Just the phrase "team spirit" makes me want to vomit.
    I like you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    This sounds like it has to do with emotivism vs. constructivism.

    I care about "team spirit" because it's essential to make sure stuff gets done.

    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Indifference. If there is an emphasis on team spirit, I'll play along for the experience of it, even if I don't buy into the team ideals. If there is no sense of team spirit, it doesn't hinder my ability to work. Just being in a group motivates me to put forth effort because of the fact that what I do now has consequences for others.
    What vague is mentioning in the highlighted bit is related to ethics (as an ethical principles), and perhaps that was Joy's point too (but I don't know).
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    I always feel the need to work as a team and I like group projects as well. I feel lonely when I have to work alone and I often feel that I'm missing out on something. To me, unity is strength. However, I will be irritated if I have to work with members who are more interested in social loafing rather than working together as a team.
    That is not what the discussion here is about at all.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  10. #10
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    Team spirit is okay. I like professional workers. I like people I can rely on to get jobs done. If team spirit can bolster responsibility in it's group's members then that's great. Bad team spirit can really slow everyone's work and precision. Plus a team effort can help you lobby for the team's interests successfully. I'm not going to don a jersey, but I like teams.

    pragmatism over personal likes and dislikes. God I hate people who bring their fucking likes/dislikes into things! FUUUCK!!! It drives me crazy.
    asd

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    The very idea of a team is so anti me. If I do things with other people I can only function as either a collective or as an individual. There is no middle ground where I give up my individuality for a cause (And quite frankly I could never imagine doing such a thing). I may appear to be doing that, out of cutesy and consideration towards other people, but I'm in full control of my decisions.

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    The concept of "team spirit" brings back some disgustingly horrid nightmares. I really don't see a valid reason for it. Just the thought of putting fourth my effort to participate in such a thing stresses me out. I think teams are fine and just as likely to succeed without it as long as there is decent work ethic and corporation involved.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    I think that if people are hired randomly without screening, it should be assumed that not everyone is going to be for the same goal, and not everyone will be able to visualize/approve what the company is doing as an entity so it should not be enforced, in fact I think it hinders free speech to the opposing members who may feel that in order to make a statement they would need to pull everyone else off their high horse. I suppose its inevitable though in corporations, but I would rather work with people I click with on a portion of something we are good at so we can have our own quadra spirit, but it is still difficult to ignore the very top of the corporation because their spirit always trickles down. Who ever has power enforces the spirit unconsciously, they demand the extra spirit space because they are leading the top. I am working at a small company right now and its a very relaxed liberal environment, however my immediate boss/coworker is an INTp and hes really cool, but its not easy to feel his priorities, and the main boss/ceo is a wealthy outgoing entj-t, who affects me very negatively just with his presence. He always tries to get me to smile and not be so "serious" and I have trouble explaining to him that that is just how I am and I don't wish to express happiness all the time because it means something else to me than to him, and he really drains me because of this and decreases my productivity and creative energy for no reason at all. His presence makes me feel very nervous and I can never tell if hes joking or being serious. The other guy who opens the door for people and does other stuff seems like a metrosexual esfp guy, the graphics guy is isfj, and the other two guys seem intp and intj, they are brothers, the intj has a look in his eyes that seems as if he had to look much deeper than the others at life because he is out of place and has to be twice as selfconscious and self subjucated, in fact this is the look I see in many of the other alpha engineers there. This isn't the case in other countries. I'm actually considering on moving to a more socialist government, however I think its too late for me psychologically. So much for team spirit.
    -Slava


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    Wait a moment, some people may be confusing "team spirit" with "being cooperative" or "being able to work with others" or "being civil" etc. That is not what the discussion is about at all.

    The discussion is about whether a team works better if all its members feel the team spirit in the sense of "I won't feel proud of my own performance if the team failed even if I work well myself" etc.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Wait a moment, some people may be confusing "team spirit" with "being cooperative" or "being able to work with others" or "being civil" etc. That is not what the discussion is about at all.

    The discussion is about whether a team works better if all its members feel the team spirit in the sense of "I won't feel proud of my own performance if the team failed even if I work well myself" etc.
    As entp... my Fi is separate from everyone unless I am in charge.

    I hate when people try to bring me down when the team is down, or try to bring me up when i'm down and the team is up. In some situations this makes me feel like an asshole though, when i'm with Te Fi people especially... but Ti Fe has its own protocol for that sort of thing.

    I refuse to act as a component of something larger than myself.

    It's bad enough when I level with people and they assume thats how I always am, and then refuse to release me using "ethical" means. On the other hand I hate when F people level with my T, especially the dumb ones and make me feel stupid, or as if the T status I earned means nothing. I want them to know that if they are dumb I don't want to speak to them or exchange ideas with them at all, because they will only pollute my structural confidence and consistency, while leaching accuracy from my archives.
    -Slava


    What a great replacement for a nany

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Wait a moment, some people may be confusing "team spirit" with "being cooperative" or "being able to work with others" or "being civil" etc. That is not what the discussion is about at all.
    That's what I never really comprehended at the first place. In my view, discussing team spirit/being co-operative/being professional et cetera transforms into plays of semantics in the sense that people define those words according to their own understanding.

    Gosh I am really that simplistic. :tragic:

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    Quote Originally Posted by stefana
    That's what I never really comprehended at the first place. In my view, discussing team spirit/being co-operative/being professional et cetera transforms into plays of semantics in the sense that people define those words according to their own understanding.

    Gosh I am really that simplistic. :tragic:
    No, you just placed your finger on the reason why this poll's results probably mean nothing
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by stefana
    That's what I never really comprehended at the first place. In my view, discussing team spirit/being co-operative/being professional et cetera transforms into plays of semantics in the sense that people define those words according to their own understanding.

    Gosh I am really that simplistic. :tragic:
    No, you just placed your finger on the reason why this poll's results probably mean nothing
    Can we try it again, I also messed up at first.
    -Slava


    What a great replacement for a nany

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Wait a moment, some people may be confusing "team spirit" with "being cooperative" or "being able to work with others" or "being civil" etc. That is not what the discussion is about at all.

    The discussion is about whether a team works better if all its members feel the team spirit in the sense of "I won't feel proud of my own performance if the team failed even if I work well myself" etc.
    OoooooOOOOOOooooh is that what he means? I didn't get it.

    I like to work on a team but I certainly feel proud if I've done well regardless of the outcome. And if I'm on a team, I hope everyone working with me is proud of their individual strengths regardless of how the team does as a whole. Winning isn't everything.

    XoX's concept of "team" sounds kind of Beta-ish.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

  20. #20
    Creepy-Diana

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    .

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Wait a moment, some people may be confusing "team spirit" with "being cooperative" or "being able to work with others" or "being civil" etc. That is not what the discussion is about at all.

    The discussion is about whether a team works better if all its members feel the team spirit in the sense of "I won't feel proud of my own performance if the team failed even if I work well myself" etc.
    OoooooOOOOOOooooh is that what he means? I didn't get it.

    I like to work on a team but I certainly feel proud if I've done well regardless of the outcome. And if I'm on a team, I hope everyone working with me is proud of their individual strengths regardless of how the team does as a whole. Winning isn't everything.

    XoX's concept of "team" sounds kind of Beta-ish.
    When Expat puts words in my mouth or tries to explain what I mean -> ignore him. It is almost as if he purposefully distorts my message.

    Form your own opinion based on what "team spirit" means to YOU not to Expat (or to me). Then explain that position. When you interpret MY opinion read what I say or what references I use (e.g. the article) not what Expat claims me to say. I don't want him to be my interpreter in this matter because apparently we have total lack understanding and I'm getting suspicious about his objectivity and motives. I.e. I'm slowly losing trust in his objectivity and ethics in this matter such big and unexplainable is the difference in opinion with him and I don't see this happening between me and others. I can perfectly understand where others are coming from when they disagree with me but in Expat's case it is like one big distortion.

    Think of it like this. You are in a sports team whose objective is to win world championship. You get to the final and you personally play ok in the final but your team loses the match and the championship. What I suggested was that if you are satisfied with the result even if you were not able to reach the team objective and win the championship you most likely lack in team spirit and commitment to the team and this lack of team spirit might have contributed to the loss (e.g. people who are more interested in how many goals they personally score instead of if the team wins or loses lack team spirit).

    This metaphor is as good as I can put it at the moment. My wife and some other people here don't have any problems understanding this or even agreeing to it. Some other people like Expat think this is just plain offensive and get agitated about me even mentioning it. However in case of Expat there seems to be an increased level of misunderstanding because I have easier time understanding where e.g. Isha (who disagrees with me) is coming from.

    To put face to the concept of "team spirit" I will use a picture of a long time Finnish ice hockey team captain and long time Montreal Canadiens captain Saku Koivu who seems to manifest all the qualities which makes a team player. Read his interviews, listen to his opinions, VI him and so on and perhaps that better explains what I try to say. Whatever you do don't let Expat interpret my views for you.

    So VI the ultimate manifestation of "team spirit" (as I define it) You could say he is some kind of "idol" for me in team spirit issues as I have followed his career from very young and he is inspirational.

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    i would very tentatively type koivu as ESE based on these pictures and a video interview of very little substance:

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4n0IpUdefk[/youtube]

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    When Expat puts words in my mouth or tries to explain what I mean -> ignore him. It is almost as if he purposefully distorts my message.

    Form your own opinion based on what "team spirit" means to YOU not to Expat (or to me). Then explain that position. When you interpret MY opinion read what I say or what references I use (e.g. the article) not what Expat claims me to say. I don't want him to be my interpreter in this matter because apparently we have total lack understanding and I'm getting suspicious about his objectivity and motives. I.e. I'm slowly losing trust in his objectivity and ethics in this matter such big and unexplainable is the difference in opinion with him and I don't see this happening between me and others. I can perfectly understand where others are coming from when they disagree with me but in Expat's case it is like one big distortion.
    That's just great.

    Are these not your words:

    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    However personal achievements mean nothing if team loses. If you are the best scorer in the league but you fail to win the championship then you should not be proud since you are a loser and a failure. If you didn't score too many goals but the team still won you should be a proud champion. Team success is what matters.
    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Once more...if the team loses but you feel happy then it kind of implies that you were not seriously committed to the team goal at the first place and probably could have done more to get the win.
    So how am I distorting anything when I say this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    The discussion is about whether a team works better if all its members feel the team spirit in the sense of "I won't feel proud of my own performance if the team failed even if I work well myself" etc.
    How is that different from what I just quoted, and also from what you just wrote?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    When Expat puts words in my mouth or tries to explain what I mean -> ignore him. It is almost as if he purposefully distorts my message.

    Form your own opinion based on what "team spirit" means to YOU not to Expat (or to me). Then explain that position. When you interpret MY opinion read what I say or what references I use (e.g. the article) not what Expat claims me to say. I don't want him to be my interpreter in this matter because apparently we have total lack understanding and I'm getting suspicious about his objectivity and motives. I.e. I'm slowly losing trust in his objectivity and ethics in this matter such big and unexplainable is the difference in opinion with him and I don't see this happening between me and others. I can perfectly understand where others are coming from when they disagree with me but in Expat's case it is like one big distortion.
    That's just great.

    Are these not your words:

    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    However personal achievements mean nothing if team loses. If you are the best scorer in the league but you fail to win the championship then you should not be proud since you are a loser and a failure. If you didn't score too many goals but the team still won you should be a proud champion. Team success is what matters.
    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Once more...if the team loses but you feel happy then it kind of implies that you were not seriously committed to the team goal at the first place and probably could have done more to get the win.
    So how am I distorting anything?
    Without doing here the same explanation I did in the other thread...and still trying to do...I wrote several pages in the other thread trying to clarify what I mean because there is a misunderstanding in communication (possibly because of my sloppy and careless use of language). I predicted that you will take one or two perhaps badly formulated things out of the thread and use them as "evidence". Those are perhaps the exact parts which have caused all the misunderstandings. If you want to read the whole conversation it is here:
    http://the16types.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10315
    and it is still going on and possibly even converging slowly. I suggest you start from the bottom and work towards the beginning because it is too long to do the other way around And of course the best parts are near the end not near the beginning.

    Edit: the link was of course not for Expat because he is part of that conversation. It was for those not familiar where the quotes came from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    i would very tentatively type koivu as ESE based on these pictures and a video interview of very little substance:

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4n0IpUdefk[/youtube]
    Thank you! I love this video. It pretty much lists all the reasons why I like the guy He even mentiones he is happy because they just won, lol. That's the team spirit He just saved my day Now I would really like to know his type. I have never considered him to be extroverted F-type before. I think I make a typing thread about him.

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    The moment that a debate becomes a questioning of my motives, that's when I decide to let it go (or at least that I should let it go) --

    Phaedrus, as he said it himself (unless I'm "distorting" what he says, too) said that there are ways to know what, objectively, a person is actually feeling. I think this is best left to The Shadow. If someone decides that I have some nefarious intentions, there is absolutely no way that I can prove that it's not the case if my words won't be believed. So this is a dead-end.

    As I also told Minde over PM, I did make the point a bit too strongly because I wanted to bring the issue into the open, since I think it is relevant for Socionics. It's also a subject on which I have very strong views. But I haven't deliberately distorted anything and I think this should be clear to anyone who reads what has actually been written, by XoX and myself, and from the beginning.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    The poll is...interesting I guess it tells something else than what it was supposed to measure. Anyways is does seem to slowly form a distribution where Betas and Gammas are most against the team spirit concept (Betas leading the way) and Deltas and Alphas most positive about it. This is not exactly the Fe/Fi difference expected. It points more to Se/Si difference. Se Quadras being least interested about "team spirit" and Si Quadras most. Then it tells that small minority of people is for team spirit and small majority is against it. Well hard to interpret this poll but it is something

    Most curious thing are the INFp comments which show consistency but differ from my opinion. They don't particularly care about team spirit but can play along. This might be a case for me not being INFp. So far I have found most resonance from people like Phaedrus and Cracka. Then in this thread there was some people who I felt had similar enough views with mine e.g. heath.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Wait a moment, some people may be confusing "team spirit" with "being cooperative" or "being able to work with others" or "being civil" etc. That is not what the discussion is about at all.

    The discussion is about whether a team works better if all its members feel the team spirit in the sense of "I won't feel proud of my own performance if the team failed even if I work well myself" etc.
    In that case, no, I don't think anyone should feel bad about any kind of failure, and especially that of a team. There is no point.

    Expat, does that make me an Fi-quadra type?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    In that case, no, I don't think anyone should feel bad about any kind of failure, and especially that of a team. There is no point.

    Expat, does that make me an Fi-quadra type?
    No, not at all -- my view on this is still half-baked. For the moment, it is this:

    - if you completely share XoX's views on this subject - provided you did understand them, in every detail - then I think you are most definitely a Fe-quadra type
    - if you totally disagree with his views, you can be anything

    I think his views are one Ti-Fe concept. It doesn't follow that all Ti-Fe types will share it (do two INTjs necessarily agree ?).
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Wait a moment, some people may be confusing "team spirit" with "being cooperative" or "being able to work with others" or "being civil" etc. That is not what the discussion is about at all.

    The discussion is about whether a team works better if all its members feel the team spirit in the sense of "I won't feel proud of my own performance if the team failed even if I work well myself" etc.
    What makes you say that? It was my impression that this was a discussion on team spirit and not team dynamics.

    But to answer you question, in such a situation, where I was in a team, I would function the same way I would as if I wasn't in a team, I'd feel proud of my actions based on my judgment of my actions and wouldn't define myself through external reference points like whether the team did well or not, meaning, the actions of the team would bare no relevance on my performance (At least that has been the case for me in the past). But I would still feel good *for* the team if *it* played well.

    Also I tend to be the person that constantly plays down team spirit or any other kind of spontaneous mass collectivism where a person losses his/her identity to a group identity. Group identity is the antithesis of my being, just thinking about it fills me with cold hate. Usually during the game I boost individual identity through bringing up peoples personal qualities and through personal comments and constantly showing that it's a game/assignment we are only participants in and we can leave or stop any time if we feel like it and we wont be judged for it, irregardless of what other members of the team might think you should do. I completely ignore team spirit in favor of personal enjoyment and a friendly emotional atmosphere where people are free to chose their own decisions. I've had problems with this in the past, especially deltas who seem to be the exact opposite. (Not that deltas are "anti personal choices in favor of blind masses", just that they don't understand how can I just walk away if I feel like it. )

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    In that case, no, I don't think anyone should feel bad about any kind of failure, and especially that of a team. There is no point.

    Expat, does that make me an Fi-quadra type?
    No, not at all -- my view on this is still half-baked. For the moment, it is this:

    - if you completely share XoX's views on this subject - provided you did understand them, in every detail - then I think you are most definitely a Fe-quadra type
    - if you totally disagree with his views, you can be anything

    I think his views are one Ti-Fe concept. It doesn't follow that all Ti-Fe types will share it (do two INTjs necessarily agree ?).
    OK, that's what I thought. In that case, do you have other evidence for INFp over ENFp?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    OK, that's what I thought. In that case, do you have other evidence for INFp over ENFp?
    These quotes from the "preferred co-workers" thread in Any Relations:

    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    So, much worse and the real test for "team spirit" is if someone feels happy when the team loses. This feeling is usually based on some subjective criteria according to which they "performed good". If the team lost then they didn't perform good _enough_ to achieve the goal. Thus they failed. Thus they SHOULD be UNHAPPY about it This is bad character in people imho. But feeling bad about failing to do your part...well ok if you go from theory to practice that is quite reasonable.
    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Now are all people who are capable of committing themselves to the team in a way which can bring the championship home Fe people? I don't think you can win this kind of competition without "team spirit" as I defined it. I have no knowledge a team which has. So are Gammas and Deltas somehow naturally incapable of winning big championships in team sports? Are they incapable of forming an unstoppable military unit? Are they incapable of forming a hyper effective business unit? I just can't see how this kind of feats can be done without the kind of commitment I'm talking about. So Fe is what is needed in order to win a competition where teams are competing against teams? I never thought about it that way. That would make Fe awesomely powerful.
    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by Isha
    Why is it all about winning?
    That is a good question Somehow I always talk in terms of winning and losing. I kind of see that in all situations that kind of division exists. Actually that is one of the main ways to motivate myself. If it is not about winning then why even bother?
    These are all Ti-Fe quotes IMO, and the last one is anti-Delta.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    OK, that's what I thought. In that case, do you have other evidence for INFp over ENFp?
    These quotes from the "preferred co-workers" thread in Any Relations:

    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    So, much worse and the real test for "team spirit" is if someone feels happy when the team loses. This feeling is usually based on some subjective criteria according to which they "performed good". If the team lost then they didn't perform good _enough_ to achieve the goal. Thus they failed. Thus they SHOULD be UNHAPPY about it This is bad character in people imho. But feeling bad about failing to do your part...well ok if you go from theory to practice that is quite reasonable.
    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Now are all people who are capable of committing themselves to the team in a way which can bring the championship home Fe people? I don't think you can win this kind of competition without "team spirit" as I defined it. I have no knowledge a team which has. So are Gammas and Deltas somehow naturally incapable of winning big championships in team sports? Are they incapable of forming an unstoppable military unit? Are they incapable of forming a hyper effective business unit? I just can't see how this kind of feats can be done without the kind of commitment I'm talking about. So Fe is what is needed in order to win a competition where teams are competing against teams? I never thought about it that way. That would make Fe awesomely powerful.
    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by Isha
    Why is it all about winning?
    That is a good question Somehow I always talk in terms of winning and losing. I kind of see that in all situations that kind of division exists. Actually that is one of the main ways to motivate myself. If it is not about winning then why even bother?
    These are all Ti-Fe quotes IMO, and the last one is anti-Delta.
    About these quotes. The bottom one I still sign as it is except FDG made some additions to it which involved doing something "for fun" which made sense to some extent. So it is about winning but about fun too. Also you win in a "not fun way" that can be a turnoff. E.g. if someone let's you win or you win because of pure luck or your win causes certain negative developments. It is not about winning whatever the cost. There are things that are more important than winning but still I tend to think in terms of winning and losing.

    The middle one...perhaps it is a bit too polarized especially after the talk about differences in "professional attitude" and "team spirit" later in the thread. Still middle one is quite ok in principle.

    The first one...there is a smiley which means the sentence which the smiley ends should be read with some humor. It also refers to some previous posts which affects the language used. But ok...there is something to that too.

    Generally I talk with absolutes when I don't necessarily mean things are always absolute or black and white. It is somehow easier to state things in absolute way or something. You can sometimes hear me say "always" when I perhaps mean "pretty much always" and never when I mean "almost never" and so on. This happens especially if I'm irritated somehow and trying to make a point. I can also raise my voice in these moments and be unnecessary aggressive in my communication just to enforce the effect. I don't usually do it consciously. It is part of my character.

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    Current ranking in poll (most team spirited Quadra is first)
    Alpha > Delta > Gamma > Beta

    Here it seems that the more aggressor/victim you are the less you are interested in team spirit where careful/infantile is more about team spirit. Very unreliable poll though. Just to keep track where we are

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    Quite frankly XoX, and I'mdruk so I can telly ou i'm sincere, the only thingi givenashit aobuit is that you can let me flirty with all the girls around andthen you can get our fucking team, and letm e do all the shittiest amd most difficult work!
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    lol
    its true, all the leaders that figureit out have my outmost respect
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quite frankly XoX, and I'mdruk so I can telly ou i'm sincere, the only thingi givenashit aobuit is that you can let me flirty with all the girls around andthen you can get our fucking team, and letm e do all the shittiest amd most difficult work!
    We can hire some girls in the office just to motivate you, lol. If you promise not to get us into court for harrassing them too much. You did make awfully lot of spelling errors there btw but at least you did spell "flirty", "girls" and "fucking" right. I think at those points you managed to concentrate better

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    lol
    its true, all the leaders that figureit out have my outmost respect
    actually only in terms of chinese food.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quite frankly XoX, and I'mdruk so I can telly ou i'm sincere, the only thingi givenashit aobuit is that you can let me flirty with all the girls around andthen you can get our fucking team, and letm e do all the shittiest amd most difficult work!
    We can hire some girls in the office just to motivate you, lol. If you promise not to get us into court for harrassing them too much.
    No they usually like it and the team leadres like it too so it's a win win situation really, just get them out of the way when actually have to do all the suttf
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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