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Thread: Dioklecian's Type Lists

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    Default Dioklecian's Type Lists

    Due to suggestions and my own innitiative I have decided to create a "database" of all the people I have typed, organized according to their type.

    Please free to contest my listings and to suggest other people to be added to the lists.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Dioklecian's Avatar
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    INTP

    ------

    -Roger Federer

    -Steve Nash

    -Warren Buffett

    -Beckham

    -Aristotle

    -Heraclitus

    -Octavian Augustus

    -Moses

    -Buddha

    -Dick Cheney

    -John Travolta

    -Hannibal
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Dioklecian's Avatar
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    ESFP

    -------

    -Cleopatra

    -Nicole Kidman

    -Napoleon

    -Stendhal

    -Helen of Troy
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    I like how David Beckham gets one name like Aristotle, Moses, and Buddah.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Dioklecian's Avatar
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    ENTJ

    -----

    -Henry Ford

    -Rutherford (physicist)

    -Enrico Fermi

    -Robert Redford

    -Xenophone

    -Julius Caesar

    -David Letterman

    -Michael Moore

    -Salvador Dali

    -Amy Lee (singer)

    -Bjork

    -The guy from "That 70s show"

    -Family Guy

    -Quentin Tarantino,

    -Mao

    -Stalin
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Dioklecian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    I like how David Beckham gets one name like Aristotle, Moses, and Buddah.
    Good one Actually I couldn't remember his first name
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Dioklecian's Avatar
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    ISFJ

    ------

    -Marlene Dietrich

    -Betty Davis

    -The main actress from Grease.

    -Uma Thurman

    -Marilyn Monroe

    -Frank Sinatra

    -Richard Nixon

    -Andy Warhol

    -James Naismith (invented basketball)
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    aka Slacker Slacker's Avatar
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    "Main actress from Grease" = Olivia Newton-John
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
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    -The guy from "That 70s show"
    ?

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    Dioklecian's Avatar
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    INTJ

    -----

    -Plato

    -Pharaoh Amenhotep IV

    -Newton

    -Robespierre

    -Darwin

    -Lewis Caroll

    -Einstein

    -Jung

    -Gerald Ford

    -Julius Robert Oppenheimer
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Dioklecian's Avatar
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    ESFJ

    ------

    -Nefertiti

    -Jacqueline Auriol

    -Oprah

    -Condoleza Rice

    -Posh Spice

    -James Watson
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Dioklecian's Avatar
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    ENTP

    -----

    -Ulysses

    -Epaminondas

    -Pyrrhus

    -Roman Emperor Lucius Septimius Severus

    -Galileo

    -Cervantes

    -Rasputin

    -Alcide De Gasperi

    -Juergen Schrempp

    -John Kerry

    -Johnny Carson

    -Jay Leno

    -Schwarzenegger

    -Simon Cowell
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    you mean james watson like watson & crick, right?
    6w5 sx
    model Φ: -+0
    sloan - rcuei

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    Dioklecian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    you mean james watson like watson & crick, right?
    Yes, precisely, the biologist.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    -The guy from "That 70s show"
    ?
    Topher Grace, he plays Eric. But icould be wrong on this one. He might be ESFJ.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    ISFP

    ------

    -Thetis

    -Winston Churchill

    -Queen Elizabeth II

    -Nikita Khrushchev

    -Mother Teresa

    -Marc Anthony

    -Lenny Kravitz
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    ENFP

    -----

    -Pyrrhus

    -Joan of Arc

    -David Ben-Gurion

    -Günter Blobel (biologist, nobel prize)

    -Demi Moore

    -Dolores O'Riordan

    -Nelly Furtado
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    ISTP

    -----

    -Adam Smith

    -John Locke

    -Washington

    -Harry Truman
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    ESTJ

    -----
    -King Louis the Fourteenth of France,

    -Singer Pink

    -
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Rather than commenting on specific "weird"-seeming typings here, I'll just suggest that maybe a good next step would be to explain the typings that go against what people in the Russian Socionics community have come up with, as well as ones that have been discussed extensively on this forum.

    It's not that you have to agree...that's not the point. The point is, if everyone comes up with completely different typings willy nilly, then it suggests that there really isn't anything to Socionics. Rick has some detailed explanations of some of his typings, and he also shows what various numbers of other Socionists have said in his "celebrity benchmark list."

    Nevertheless, your own personal list of typings is at least good for diagnosing the ways in which your understanding may diverge from Socionics the way the Russian folks understand it.

    Your INTps suggest some inconsistent images; the only pattern is that you probably see INTps as very forceful and decided about their opinions.
    Andy Warhol as ISFj is kind of surprising.

    Plato as INTj and Aristotle as INTp suggests to me that you accept the J/P flip with MBTI as basically valid. It appears that you're inclined to see scientific investigators and basically open-minded scientific types as INTj; that's why move some people over to the INTj column from some of the other types. Perhaps the fact that experienced Socionists have typed some scientists as INTp, and a fair number as ENTp annoys you.

    Your ISFps don't form any clear pattern; they seem to be drawn from other types.

    It gives me an idea for a Socionics board game though. Basically, you throw the dice to see what type someone is. It may actually prove to be a fairly accurate method.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    It gives me an idea for a Socionics board game though. Basically, you throw the dice to see what type someone is. It may actually prove to be a fairly accurate method.
    just as good as anything else dio could come up with.

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    The ones I'm surprised the most about are (not that I agree with the others, but I don't know many of them well):

    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    ENTJ

    -Michael Moore

    -Salvador Dali

    -Mao

    -Stalin
    I mean, the only possible connection I can see between these is, perhaps, strong opinions about -- something.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    How come Expat is not on the list?
    Intuition

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    ENTJ

    -----

    -Henry Ford

    -Rutherford (physicist)

    -Enrico Fermi

    -Robert Redford

    -Xenophone

    -Julius Caesar

    -David Letterman

    -Michael Moore

    -Salvador Dali

    -Amy Lee (singer)

    -Bjork

    -The guy from "That 70s show"

    -Family Guy

    -Quentin Tarantino,

    -Mao

    -Stalin
    i will have to debate bjork at least. please tell why you've typed her of all people as ENTj?

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    Dio, you're an unusual fellow.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Default Re: Dioklecian's Type Lists

    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    Due to suggestions and my own innitiative I have decided to create a "database" of all the people I have typed, organized according to their type.

    Please free to contest my listings and to suggest other people to be added to the lists.
    I do not fully agree with your typings, but I am grateful for the list.
    Your contributions thus far have been most interesting, consistently highly original and thought provoking. I hope you have the patience to keep up the good work.
    "Arnie is strong, rightfully angry and wants to kill somebody."
    martin_g_karlsson


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    Default Re: Dioklecian's Type Lists

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousSoul
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    Due to suggestions and my own innitiative I have decided to create a "database" of all the people I have typed, organized according to their type.

    Please free to contest my listings and to suggest other people to be added to the lists.
    I do not fully agree with your typings, but I am grateful for the list.
    Your contributions thus far have been most interesting, consistently highly original and thought provoking. I hope you have the patience to keep up the good work.
    Oh thank you, I am blushing

    A compliment from a thoughtfull person like yourself, with a demonstrated determination to understand types and even put his own certainty on the line, with all the anguish that that might bring, is appreciated sincerely.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    Rather than commenting on specific "weird"-seeming typings here, I'll just suggest that maybe a good next step would be to explain the typings that go against what people in the Russian Socionics community have come up with, as well as ones that have been discussed extensively on this forum.

    It's not that you have to agree...that's not the point. The point is, if everyone comes up with completely different typings willy nilly, then it suggests that there really isn't anything to Socionics. Rick has some detailed explanations of some of his typings, and he also shows what various numbers of other Socionists have said in his "celebrity benchmark list."

    Nevertheless, your own personal list of typings is at least good for diagnosing the ways in which your understanding may diverge from Socionics the way the Russian folks understand it.

    Your INTps suggest some inconsistent images; the only pattern is that you probably see INTps as very forceful and decided about their opinions.
    Andy Warhol as ISFj is kind of surprising.

    Plato as INTj and Aristotle as INTp suggests to me that you accept the J/P flip with MBTI as basically valid. It appears that you're inclined to see scientific investigators and basically open-minded scientific types as INTj; that's why move some people over to the INTj column from some of the other types. Perhaps the fact that experienced Socionists have typed some scientists as INTp, and a fair number as ENTp annoys you.

    Your ISFps don't form any clear pattern; they seem to be drawn from other types.

    It gives me an idea for a Socionics board game though. Basically, you throw the dice to see what type someone is. It may actually prove to be a fairly accurate method.
    Jonathan I appreciate your comments. I don't really know what the consensus in the Russian sites isabout the peopleI have typed here, please let me know about which ones I have diverged from, I would sincerely appreciate it.

    About INTP/INTJ. My understanding of it comes from my own experience. INTJs tend to be more static, architecturalin the their thinking. INTPs are more tactical, commercial.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jas05
    How come Expat is not on the list?
    Expat is ENTJ in my opinion.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III
    Dio, you're an unusual fellow.
    UDP some of my typings are indeed put there to be thought provoking more than final judgments. If any particular person catches your interest, feel free to coment I would sincerely appreciate it.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    ENTJ

    -----

    -Henry Ford

    -Rutherford (physicist)

    -Enrico Fermi

    -Robert Redford

    -Xenophone

    -Julius Caesar

    -David Letterman

    -Michael Moore

    -Salvador Dali

    -Amy Lee (singer)

    -Bjork

    -The guy from "That 70s show"

    -Family Guy

    -Quentin Tarantino,

    -Mao

    -Stalin
    i will have to debate bjork at least. please tell why you've typed her of all people as ENTj?
    I will double check Bjork. I sincerely appreciate your input Maria

    The reason why I pit her here as ENTJK was that she reminds me in many ways of my ENTJ ex.

    Implied THANK YOU

    I now believe that Bjork is INFJ, what do you think?
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III
    Dio, you're an unusual fellow.
    UDP some of my typings are indeed put there to be thought provoking more than final judgments. If any particular person catches your interest, feel free to coment I would sincerely appreciate it.
    Maybe I will in a little bit. Keep churning them out.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    some of my typings are indeed put there to be thought provoking more than final judgments. If any particular person catches your interest, feel free to coment I would sincerely appreciate it.
    how about all of them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    I will double check Bjork. I sincerely appreciate your input Maria

    The reason why I pit her here as ENTJK was that she reminds me in many ways of my ENTJ ex.

    Implied THANK YOU

    I now believe that Bjork is INFJ, what do you think?
    So you think that ENTjs and INFjs are generally similar?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Hi Exapt,

    No, I don't think that there is any particular similarity between INFJ and ENTJ, however in this particular case there seemed to be some superficial similarities. Also I heard her say that she admires Bjork, etc, so I made a snap judgment call, which on second check up, I think was wrong.

    Again, I expect to make many such mistakes, and usually do, until I review my choices, sort of like a first draft.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

  36. #36
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    My comments FWIW

    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    ENTJ

    -----

    -Henry Ford -- no idea

    -Rutherford (physicist) -- yes, likely

    -Enrico Fermi - no idea

    -Robert Redford - more like ENFj I think

    -Xenophone - no idea

    -Julius Caesar - ENTj

    -David Letterman - ENTp I think

    -Michael Moore - not ENTj; perhaps ISFp

    -Salvador Dali - ENFj I think

    -Amy Lee (singer) - no idea

    -Bjork - no idea

    -The guy from "That 70s show" - no idea

    -Family Guy - no idea

    -Quentin Tarantino, - possibly ENTj

    -Mao - no way ENTj

    -Stalin ISTj
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    The ones I'm surprised the most about are (not that I agree with the others, but I don't know many of them well):

    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    ENTJ

    -Michael Moore

    -Salvador Dali

    -Mao

    -Stalin
    I mean, the only possible connection I can see between these is, perhaps, strong opinions about -- something.
    I was mainly sceptical about Dali being ENTj.....>.> But I have no argument yet.

    And Family Guy? LoL The whole show or which character? O_o
    SEE Unknown Subtype
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    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    Jonathan I appreciate your comments. I don't really know what the consensus in the Russian sites isabout the peopleI have typed here, please let me know about which ones I have diverged from, I would sincerely appreciate it.

    About INTP/INTJ. My understanding of it comes from my own experience. INTJs tend to be more static, architecturalin the their thinking. INTPs are more tactical, commercial.
    Well, maybe I overstated myself. There are a few people who seem oddly typed to me, but then again Socionics typings almost always result in some "how could he?!" reactions. Within Socionics, there is enough diversity within the definitions that one really has the same structure operating at different levels with several version of Socionics sort of overlaid; hence, it's hard to straighten things out. Still, I try to hold out hope that typings by Rick, Dmitri, etc., may at least suggest a "consistent school."

    Anyhow, here are some of yours I wondered about:
    * Dick Cheney as INTp. I think there was a thread here where people made a good case for ISTj. Here's how I summarized the way Dick Cheney comes off in another thread (though I didn't mention that I was describing him): "Flaunts impression of knowledge (without necessarily demonstrating it); intellectually aggressive; power-driven; arrogant-seeming, uses unfair means of attacking opponent or making opponent look bad; implies that opponent is stupid." No one so far felt that that's a good description of an INTp. He seems perhaps a bit aggressive compared to the standard Socionics version of INTp, although MBTI-NiTe seems more reasonable.

    *Aristotle as INTp...I'd consider it; I would have typed Aristotle as NiTe under MBTI. Explain your reasoning though.

    * Plato as INTj....Rick's Celebrity benchmark list shows a convergence of Socionists typing Socrates as INTp. I know that some on this forum think he was an ENTj. In any case, I find it hard to believe that Socrates and the person who wrote the version by which we know Socrates were quasi-identicals.

    * Einstein as INTj; it seems most Socionists think he was ENTp.

    * Darwin as INTj; Rick makes a good case for INTp, although other Socionists have typed him as every NT except INTj.

    * Schwarzenegger as ENTp; Rick thinks ESTj. In any case, he seems S-like (?). Why ENTp?

    * Andy Warhol as ISFj. Rick makes a case for INFp, although I might have guessed ENTp. In any case, ISFj just seemed weird....but maybe I just don't know him well enough. I'd be interested to hear your reasoning.

    * Nicole Kidman as ESFp. Dmitri thinks ENFj, Rick thinks INTp. Okay, so that's hardly a convergence, but at least they agree on the Ti/Fe axis. I don't get any ESFp vibe at all. How do you get ESFp from her?

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    [quote="he died with a felafel"][quote="Dioklecian"]
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian

    I now believe that Bjork is INFJ, what do you think?
    i doubt it...To me she comes accross as neurotic, exhibitionist in her performances, and i personally find her music (and her) irritating.

    may i suggest isfp...briefly....

    willing to reconsider.

    already am
    You are right, she is between ISFPand INFJ, I am not sure either. She is even violent

    [youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=pYyyqIZTvYY[/youtube]
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    Jonathan I appreciate your comments. I don't really know what the consensus in the Russian sites isabout the peopleI have typed here, please let me know about which ones I have diverged from, I would sincerely appreciate it.

    About INTP/INTJ. My understanding of it comes from my own experience. INTJs tend to be more static, architecturalin the their thinking. INTPs are more tactical, commercial.
    Well, maybe I overstated myself. There are a few people who seem oddly typed to me, but then again Socionics typings almost always result in some "how could he?!" reactions. Within Socionics, there is enough diversity within the definitions that one really has the same structure operating at different levels with several version of Socionics sort of overlaid; hence, it's hard to straighten things out. Still, I try to hold out hope that typings by Rick, Dmitri, etc., may at least suggest a "consistent school."

    Anyhow, here are some of yours I wondered about:
    * Dick Cheney as INTp. I think there was a thread here where people made a good case for ISTj. Here's how I summarized the way Dick Cheney comes off in another thread (though I didn't mention that I was describing him): "Flaunts impression of knowledge (without necessarily demonstrating it); intellectually aggressive; power-driven; arrogant-seeming, uses unfair means of attacking opponent or making opponent look bad; implies that opponent is stupid." No one so far felt that that's a good description of an INTp. He seems perhaps a bit aggressive compared to the standard Socionics version of INTp, although MBTI-NiTe seems more reasonable.

    *Aristotle as INTp...I'd consider it; I would have typed Aristotle as NiTe under MBTI. Explain your reasoning though.

    * Plato as INTj....Rick's Celebrity benchmark list shows a convergence of Socionists typing Socrates as INTp. I know that some on this forum think he was an ENTj. In any case, I find it hard to believe that Socrates and the person who wrote the version by which we know Socrates were quasi-identicals.

    * Einstein as INTj; it seems most Socionists think he was ENTp.

    * Darwin as INTj; Rick makes a good case for INTp, although other Socionists have typed him as every NT except INTj.

    * Schwarzenegger as ENTp; Rick thinks ESTj. In any case, he seems S-like (?). Why ENTp?

    * Andy Warhol as ISFj. Rick makes a case for INFp, although I might have guessed ENTp. In any case, ISFj just seemed weird....but maybe I just don't know him well enough. I'd be interested to hear your reasoning.

    * Nicole Kidman as ESFp. Dmitri thinks ENFj, Rick thinks INTp. Okay, so that's hardly a convergence, but at least they agree on the Ti/Fe axis. I don't get any ESFp vibe at all. How do you get ESFp from her?
    HI Jonathan, I greatly appreciate your reply.

    I think that we agree on many things.

    For instance, I also believe that Aristotle is Ni-Te, or ILI in socionics. I think that the MBTI labels have confused us.

    About Plato, I think that he is Ti-Ne, or LII. Do we agree on that too perhaps?

    I have read Rick's typings and agree with many of them. I didn't check with his website for this list.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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