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Thread: Assembling a Socion

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    Default Assembling a Socion

    As can be noted, the assembly of a complete quadra is possible when examining a model-X. The quadra is the most elementary unit of consciousness aside from the individual type.

    But there is a different step which can be taken, and this involves constructing an entire Socion. Like functions attach to one another, that is because when isolating information it only interacts with that of the same variety.

    Therefore, breaking a type into strengths and weaknesses(as the model-X does) enables one to express different varieties of information transmission.

    So connecting the Model-X of each type by like functions enables one to generate a layout of interaction, expressing the functional rings as well as duality and mirror relations.

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    Yup!

    This is suppose to be "Dual" and not "Duel" BTW ...


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    I don't know what you're getting at with that graphic.

    I mean that you can assemble a socion out of the model-X, literally. But I suppose my point stands for any that can see it.

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    You do not know what I am getting at?

    That is model-X ... well, a modified model-X to show all of the weak and strong functions anyhow.

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    but it doesn't assemble a socion

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    Rmcnew, i was sort of hoping for this encounter, that's kind of why I posted this in the first place.

    I think that you should throw out your model because It's meaningless, it serves no purpose. If you can give an explanation of its function that would be spectacular, but as of yet I have seen nothing to point to it having any meaning at all.

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    Ok, so how is this new from anything we already know?
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    Well I figured it would be nice to put little informative nuggets out there for people, that's all. No one really talks about that sort of stuff for whatever reason, and it's something I never really thought about in depth, but once you start steering your thoughts in a different direction you start thinking in terms of the models. Really no reason other than that.

    There are alot of models which no one discusses, such as the cube model, which i believe this system is derived from. I was just opening up a new conversation but it seems like people tend to shy away from this sort of thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waddles W
    Rmcnew, i was sort of hoping for this encounter, that's kind of why I posted this in the first place.

    I think that you should throw out your model because It's meaningless, it serves no purpose. If you can give an explanation of its function that would be spectacular, but as of yet I have seen nothing to point to it having any meaning at all.
    Perhaps I should clear a few thing up here ..
    1. The model is only "meaningless" to those who do not understand it
    2. I might be the only one who fully understands it
    3. It has served its pupose well enough for me to not ever consider throwing it out
    4. My typology test is based on this model
    5. My relationship descriptions are based 100% on this model along with personal experiences [tell me those are innacurate in any way?]
    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    So, to say this model is meaningless is to say that all of my efforts have been meaningless and in vain. Not good.

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    I think Waddles in an INTP.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Alright, so can you EXPLAIN this model? I'm not saying the model is absolutely wrong, I just think that if you're throwing it out there and it isn't compatible with the model-x, then you should provide an explanation as to what function it serves. And if you aren't going to provide an explanation I am hoping at least someone else does, because as I see it it doesn't serve any purpose whatsoever.

    Why no Id functions, for example? Why horizontally and not vertically?what is the basis for the model?

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    I'm not INTp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waddles W
    Alright, so can you EXPLAIN this model? I'm not saying the model is absolutely wrong, I just think that if you're throwing it out there and it isn't compatible with the model-x, then you should provide an explanation as to what function it serves. And if you aren't going to provide an explanation I am hoping at least someone else does, because as I see it it doesn't serve any purpose whatsoever.

    Why no Id functions, for example? Why horizontally and not vertically?what is the basis for the model?
    Te.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    What's your reasoning?

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    One thing is that you seem to be annoyed when McNew uses his fruitless Ti and it doesn't seem to make sense. I agree with you; I don't see the point in it either. You look for the "practical" and the "purpose". A Ti type would probably not care about things that dodn't make sense and ignore it. A Te type would hate for something to seem useless.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Waddlesworth is reacting to amateurish thinking. He's been on this forum longer than any of us here, so he has more knowledge of what works and what doesn't work.
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    Do you think he is NeTi, or NiTe?
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    No one wants to waste their time trying to understand something that doesn't have any logical correlations. And by the dodginess at providing an explanation to his model I am of the opinion that there is no explanation and that for some peculiar reason he is pretending that there is. That is not Ti, and it does not come across as Te(something useful).

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    I just want to say one thing:

    There is alot more to this we don't know. None of us have a perfect explantion or understanding of anything. It is a new science, and it is also a foreign one. The motivations and influences behind it are very different from what we are used to around here.

    That model is going to confuse people. Rmcnew is an amateur, just like the rest of us, as I have said before. Yet he isn't accepting this, he is plastering his plagiarized intertype writeups on his web-page, putting hundereds of supposed genuine V.I. pics across his page, and never once says "look, I am an amateur, I am not an expert and I do not fully even understand Socionics". If he said that then maybe I would be more respectful of him, but since he doesn't do that I am of the opinion that he does no one any help.

    I mean, seriously, do you really think that there is a logical system behind his writeups? THERE IS NOT! He doesn't understand intertype theory, he doesn't understand how functions interact, what they are, or anything. None of us are to the point where we fully grasp that yet. And worst of all, he RIPPED OFF Gulenko's descriptions and just paraphrased them in his own words. He also ripped off Socionics.com and the V.I. of celebrities. That is not professional.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waddles W
    No one wants to waste their time trying to understand something that doesn't have any logical correlations. And by the dodginess at providing an explanation to his model I am of the opinion that there is no explanation and that for some peculiar reason he is pretending that there is. That is not Ti, and it does not come across as Te(something useful).
    I was attempting to explain earlier, but because of time restraints and the fact that I share this computer with other people, I was interrupted before I could finish my thoughts.

    This model is simply a modified model-X with the ROLE and PoLR functions to contrast itself with the foundational, realization, dual-seeking, and activation functions. It demonstrates how they interact with oneanother and their relation to one another and the also the strength and weaknesses of oneanother.

    It is actually a combination of the old version of the "type by function" page on socionics.com and a few pictures of model-X. I combined the two and made a whole diffrent model that shows how they relate.

    I suppose this may not be a sufficent explanation for you, but I am an ENTp. Combining two concepts into a whole new concept are one of the things that ENTps are able to do best, but it can be annoying for an ENTp to be forced to explain something to someone who has difficulty understanding the vaugeness of their own activity.

    If that is not a decent explanation, then I do not know what to tell you. Just do not use the model, I guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cone
    Waddlesworth is reacting to amateurish thinking. He's been on this forum longer than any of us here, so he has more knowledge of what works and what doesn't work.
    Ummm, I would hardly call my efforts amaturish ... more like vague, inventive, and hard for anyone else to grasp except for those that have been down the same intellectual road of understanding.

    And, I think Waddlesworth's misunderstanding stems entirely from the fact that he lacks the same experience needed to understand the model.

    It can go both ways, he may list something that I do not understand and I could throw a similar fit. I do not think it is anything personal.

    But I do think it is inappropiate to ask me to throw something out meerly because other people besides myself can not understand it.

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    Rmcnew, It isn't anything personal, but the mind can come up with many vague things. Have I done it? you bet! I have made dozens of models, all of which just as vague as your own. But the development of a model is not anything special, its just putting your thoughts on paper. The model-X is a working model which has a history and an explanation that we are not entirely aware of. But It serves a clear function, however, which involves the transmission of information throughout a group. It is a structuaral model which assembles structural wholes. In this structure manifests patterns which reflect the reality, but in two dimensionality, like mirror relations, or the rings of benefit and supervision. We can trace patterns of interactions which are seemingly chaotic, and lay them out in an integrated whole.

    That is a complete model, your model is just a vague idea.

    I think you need to step back a few feet, chill out, and not try so hard to be recognized. There is plenty of time for mature understanding, but you're using up that time in order to push for very deceiving and incomplete thoughts that you have.

    It's probably a coping mechanism, as my ISFp friend called my interest in Socionics. I assume everything is a coping mechanism, but just be aware of it, be aware that all of your weaknesses as a person show through your work and be careful not to ruin yourself because of it.

    So just step back, breath, and chill out. Have some hot chocolate or a lemonade and relax. You're pushing yourself too hard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waddles W
    Rmcnew, It isn't anything personal, but the mind can come up with many vague things. Have I done it? you bet! I have made dozens of models, all of which just as vague as your own. But the development of a model is not anything special, its just putting your thoughts on paper. The model-X is a working model which has a history and an explanation that we are not entirely aware of. But It serves a clear function, however, which involves the transmission of information throughout a group. It is a structuaral model which assembles structural wholes. In this structure manifests patterns which reflect the reality, but in two dimensionality, like mirror relations, or the rings of benefit and supervision. We can trace patterns of interactions which are seemingly chaotic, and lay them out in an integrated whole.

    That is a complete model, your model is just a vague idea.

    I think you need to step back a few feet, chill out, and not try so hard to be recognized. There is plenty of time for mature understanding, but you're using up that time in order to push for very deceiving and incomplete thoughts that you have.

    It's probably a coping mechanism, as my ISFp friend called my interest in Socionics. I assume everything is a coping mechanism, but just be aware of it, be aware that all of your weaknesses as a person show through your work and be careful not to ruin yourself because of it.

    So just step back, breath, and chill out. Have some hot chocolate or a lemonade and relax. You're pushing yourself too hard.
    I second that.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waddles W
    Rmcnew, It isn't anything personal, but the mind can come up with many vague things. Have I done it? you bet! I have made dozens of models, all of which just as vague as your own. But the development of a model is not anything special, its just putting your thoughts on paper. The model-X is a working model which has a history and an explanation that we are not entirely aware of. But It serves a clear function, however, which involves the transmission of information throughout a group. It is a structuaral model which assembles structural wholes. In this structure manifests patterns which reflect the reality, but in two dimensionality, like mirror relations, or the rings of benefit and supervision. We can trace patterns of interactions which are seemingly chaotic, and lay them out in an integrated whole.

    That is a complete model, your model is just a vague idea.
    The problem with what you had just said is that the model already does everything you described. It describes all the same patterns and relationships that are already in other models. In fact, it is basically model-x ... if you understand model-x, then you understand this model and everything else that comes with model-x.

    I never even claimed to fully understand it, all I did was link two entirely diffrent concepts together and have been using them to form my own understanding of socionics. I just can not take socionics as it stands, I have to rebuild everything it entails or I just will never ever be able to grasp its concepts.

    The bad part about this is that I can make mistakes and leave myself open to harsh criticism, as I am not so much worried about being considered an authority as I am to enlarge my own understanding. I really do not care if others follow me or not, but some do despite of some of my mistakes. Probably because I like to share what I have learned and I do not hold back like most of those "supposed authorities," which I seriously doubt really exist. I have little respect for anyone that thinks their own biased experiences have presendece over personal growth and the exploration of new concepts.

    So, if you feel I am making mistakes, then expect me to make more ... I have nothing to lose in result of it.

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    Those are the kind of thoughts that I was trying to convey in my “philosophy of existence” (or whatever). A so called good thought that cannot be explained is probably not a good thought.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but being honest is not gaining value, however dishonesty causes a loss of value, and it is not honesty that people strive to, people strive for the avoidance of dishonesty.

    But more importantly, I want to know what WW has uncovered through either looking at the model-X or through some translation that I would otherwise not have time to do myself. As in a different branch of psychology that I like to study, part of it is about a person has a choice between stagnating and falling behind or putting forth effort (and self honesty) to maximize value production.

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    Those are the kind of thoughts that I was trying to convey in my “philosophy of existence” (or whatever). A so called good thought that cannot be explained is probably not a good thought.
    I think I said this before somewhere along the line, but:

    Hypocrite!
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    Waddles is ENTp the Logical subtype. I find him to be similar with me. When ILE becomes the Logical subtype, it becomes philosophical and reflective. Throughs it self away from the everiday puzzle into quietness where there is possible for it to enjoy the time alone with it's need to try to understand the deeper meanings of life. It is interested in philosophy, literature,religion. Likes to theorize how life is more than it looks with hidden structures to discover.It also may feel itself dissadisfide and in melancholic mood.
    Semiotical process

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