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Thread: Jane Austen

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    Default Jane Austen

    I've just seen a recent TV version of Mansfield Park (which wasn't that good ) - but it seems that there are similar values favoured by Austen as in Pride and Prejudice. She always initially mentions Alpha values in a favourable light (or at least the basis of the main character(s)), such as desire for comfort, reading indoors, intellectual pursuits etc., and then a 'dark' Gamma element is introduced - in Mansfield Park this is chiefly done by the introduction of Mary Crawford (who is possibly ENTj) - who has an obsession of money, and rich relatives dying etc. Jane Austen always seems to be against the idea of getting married for the sake of social reasons + ties, and has a negative view of people who flaunt their wealth.

    I think the main character, Fanny Price is ISFp, and her brother William (a naval officer) is ENTp. She is pursued by Thomas Crawford, who I think is ESTp, especially when compared to William - their opinions of being in the navy are different - Thomas Crawford seems to have a taste for glory + danger, William shuns it.

    Fanny Price gets along well with William, and eventual marries Edmund after he rejects Maria for her unhealthy obsession in dying relatives as well as his own goal of being in the church. I think he is INTj.

    There was a recent discussion about Pride and Prejudice here, and it seems obvious (I know UDP thinks so too ) that it also favoured Alpha characters.
    (http://the16types.info/forums/viewto...1c5f1d99ca773d)

    I've seen Jane Austen as being typed as INTp more often than INTj if I recall, blah blah blah I think she's INTj.



    Where so many hours have been spent in convincing myself that I am right, is there not some reason to fear I may be wrong?
    Silly things do cease to be silly if they are done by sensible people in an impudent way.
    (Emma)

    One cannot fix one's eyes on the commonest natural production without finding food for a rambling fancy
    (Mansfield Park)

    Where any one body of educated men, of whatever denomination, are condemned indiscriminately, there must be a deficiency of information, or...of something else
    (Mansfield Park)
    We have all a better guide in ourselves, if we would attend to it, than any other person can be
    (Mansfield Park)

    But also, there are also these kind of quotes, which in the context of the whole book, are probably meant ironically: e.g. the first line of Pride and Prejudice is:
    It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife.
    A large income is the best recipe for happiness I ever heard of
    (Mansfield Park)
    Last edited by Subteigh; 10-30-2016 at 02:45 AM.
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    the writer of pride and prejudice is not ILI. period.

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    I notice a certain habit of you posting in Jane Austen related threads, and I think I can probably guess why you don't think she's a INTp.


    Some more quotes:
    Nothing is more deceitful than the
    appearance of humility. It is
    often only carelessness of opinion,
    and sometimes an indirect boast
    There is nothing like staying
    at home for real comfort
    One does not love a place the less
    for having suffered in it
    unless it has all been suffering,
    nothing but suffering
    There is safety in reserve,
    but no attraction. One cannot
    love a reserved person
    For what do we live, but to make
    sport for our neighbors,
    and laugh at them in our turn?
    (I really like this one):
    Human nature is so well
    disposed towards those who
    are in interesting situations,
    that a young person, who either
    marries or dies, is sure
    of being kindly spoken of
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    makes ya wonder, i'm sure.

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    Default Jane Austen

    All the following excerpts are from Austen's biography on Wikipedia.

    Austen acquired the remainder of her education by reading books, guided by her father and her brothers James and Henry.[26] George Austen apparently gave his daughters unfettered access to his large and varied library, was tolerant of Austen's sometimes risqué experiments in writing, and provided both sisters with expensive paper and other materials for their writing and drawing.[27] According to Park Honan, a biographer of Austen, life in the Austen home was lived in "an open, amused, easy intellectual atmosphere" where the ideas of those with whom the Austens might disagree politically or socially were considered and discussed.[28] After returning from school in 1786, Austen "never again lived anywhere beyond the bounds of her immediate family environment".

    Austen's open-mindedness (nurtured by her upbringing, but also probably inherent, since she apparently liked such an atmosphere so well that she never wanted to leave it) suggests either an EP or IP temperament. Her "risque experiments in writing" suggest that she was not overly-concerned with morality, or with others' opinions of her thoughts and behavior.

    Perhaps as early as 1787, Austen began to write poems, stories, and plays for her own and her family's amusement...Among these works are a satirical novel in letters titled Love and Freindship [sic], in which she mocked popular novels of sensibility,[35] and The History of England, a manuscript of 34 pages accompanied by 13 watercolour miniatures by her sister Cassandra.

    Her mockery of the popular novels of the time, which focused on emotional expression, suggests her devaluing of emotions, or Fe in socionics terms.

    Austen's History parodied popular historical writing, particularly Oliver Goldsmith's History of England (1764).[36] Austen wrote, for example: "Henry the 4th ascended the throne of England much to his own satisfaction in the year 1399, after having prevailed on his cousin & predecessor Richard the 2nd, to resign it to him, & to retire for the rest of his Life to Pomfret Castle, where he happened to be murdered."[37] Austen's Juvenilia are often, according to scholar Richard Jenkyns, "boisterous" and "anarchic";

    Is there a function associated with irreverence?

    Austen was particularly proud of her accomplishments as a seamstress.

    This suggest-- to me-- that she definitely valued Si, but perhaps was not naturally good at it.

    Her brother Henry later said that "Jane was fond of dancing, and excelled in it".

    Looking at the kind of dancing that was popular then, perhaps it had more to do with Te...? idk.

    When Austen was twenty, Tom Lefroy, a nephew of neighbours, visited Steventon from December 1795 to January 1796. He had just finished a university degree and was moving to London to train as a barrister. Lefroy and Austen would have been introduced at a ball or other neighbourhood social gathering, and it is clear from Austen's letters to Cassandra that they spent considerable time together: "I am almost afraid to tell you how my Irish friend and I behaved. Imagine to yourself everything most profligate and shocking in the way of dancing and sitting down together."

    Again, showing unconcern for the opinions of others. Though Jane's correspondence to her sister also suggests that her behavior with Mr. Lefroy was not typical behavior for her, and that even she recognized it as uncharacteristic, though at the time perhaps there was some psychological "chemistry" present between Jane and Tom, which allowed her to feel more comfortable about letting her guard down.

    In December 1800, Rev. Austen unexpectedly announced his decision to retire from the ministry, leave Steventon, and move the family to Bath. While retirement and travel were good for the elder Austens, Jane Austen was shocked to be told she was moving from the only home she had ever known.[58] An indication of Austen's state of mind is her lack of productivity as a writer during the time she lived at Bath.

    Attachment to her old home...manifestation of Fi, perhaps?

    In December 1802, Austen received her only proposal of marriage. She and her sister visited Alethea and Catherine Bigg, old friends who lived near Basingstoke. Their younger brother, Harris Bigg-Wither, had recently finished his education at Oxford and was also at home. Bigg-Wither proposed and Austen accepted. As described by Caroline Austen, Jane's niece, and Reginald Bigg-Wither, a descendant, Harris was not attractive—he was a large, plain-looking man who spoke little, stuttered when he did speak, was aggressive in conversation, and almost completely tactless. However, Austen had known him since both were young and the marriage offered many practical advantages to Austen and her family. He was the heir to extensive family estates located in the area where the sisters had grown up. With these resources, Austen could provide her parents a comfortable old age, give Cassandra a permanent home and, perhaps, assist her brothers in their careers. By the next morning, Austen realised she had made a mistake and withdrew her acceptance.[61] No contemporary letters or diaries describe how Austen felt about this proposal.[62] In 1814, Austen wrote a letter to her niece, Fanny Knight, who had asked for advice about a serious relationship, telling her that "having written so much on one side of the question, I shall now turn around & entreat you not to commit yourself farther, & not to think of accepting him unless you really do like him. Anything is to be preferred or endured rather than marrying without Affection".[63]

    In 1804, while living in Bath, Austen started but did not complete a new novel, The Watsons. The story centres on an invalid clergyman with little money and his four unmarried daughters. Sutherland describes the novel as "a study in the harsh economic realities of dependent women's lives".[64] Honan suggests, and Tomalin agrees, that Austen chose to stop work on the novel after her father died on 21 January 1805 and her personal circumstances resembled those of her characters too closely for her comfort.[65]

    Early in 1816, Jane Austen began to feel unwell. She ignored her illness at first and continued to work and to participate in the usual round of family activities. By the middle of that year, her decline was unmistakable to Austen and to her family, and Austen's physical condition began a long, slow, and irregular deterioration culminating in her death the following year.

    Again, suggesting weak Si...?
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    Quote Originally Posted by pianosinger View Post
    Her mockery of the popular novels of the time, which focused on emotional expression, suggests her devaluing of emotions, or Fe in socionics terms.
    How?

    Is there a function associated with irreverence?
    If there is, then I have it in spades.

    Her brother Henry later said that "Jane was fond of dancing, and excelled in it".

    Looking at the kind of dancing that was popular then, perhaps it had more to do with Te...? idk.
    Eh?

    Attachment to her old home...manifestation of Fi, perhaps?


    Pianosinger, please just come out an say that you want Jane Austen to be a IEE.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    How?
    The sentimental novel or the novel of sensibility is an 18th century literary genre which celebrates the emotional and intellectual concepts of sentiment, sentimentalism, and sensibility. Sentimentalism, which is to be distinguished from sensibility, was a fashion in both poetry and prose fiction beginning in the eighteenth century in reaction to the rationalism of the Augustan Age.

    Sentimental novels relied on emotional response, both from their readers and characters. They feature scenes of distress and tenderness, and the plot is arranged to advance emotions rather than action. The result is a valorization of "fine feeling," displaying the characters as a model for refined, sensitive emotional effect. The ability to display feelings was thought to show character and experience, and to shape social life and relations.[1]

    --source, Wikipedia

    Pianosinger, please just come out an say that you want Jane Austen to be a IEE.
    Actually, no. I don't think she's ENFp. Probably either INFj, INTj, or INTp.
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    I think she's an ILI, myself - INTp. -role is rather apparent, and I see no (in fact, as has been mentioned above, she shows blatant signs of -PoLR) - plus she's rather clearly a Thinker, and seems more likely than .
    2-subtype system: IEI-Fe
    8-subtype system: D-IEI-Fe
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    IEI-Fe 2w3 > p6w5 > 8w7 sx/so

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    I've always thought she's ILI. Which is why I'm perplexed at the notion of Pride and Prejudice as an alpha book, but I have no way to disprove the theory, so...
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    I've always thought she's ILI. Which is why I'm perplexed at the notion of Pride and Prejudice as an alpha book, but I have no way to disprove the theory, so...
    How does a book get assigned to a quadra?

    I really like the ILI typing, too...apparently I have a "thing" for ILI's...
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    I agree about Fe-PoLR - you chose a good quote originally, most of her mockery and sarcasm is directed at Fe, not only referring to popular genre of the period (which is likely lost on most readers nowadays), but also expressed in her depiction of society, both in novels and letters. Among other clues, she usually describes excitability and displays of emotion with disdain, implying or picturing them as fake, overdone or meaningless.

    ILI over SLI, especially visible when she uses free indirect speech you can hear Ni in her characters' thoughts, just like you can hear Si in case of Rowling's - not a very strong argument, I realize, as apparently some try to label Rowling LIE. But I rather see Austen as an N type dichotomy-wise, too.

    Speaking of IEEs, I think Catherine from Northanger Abbey could be IEE, though it's been some time since I've read the book.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pianosinger View Post
    How does a book get assigned to a quadra?
    Alpha insofar as the main characters are alpha duals and many of the likable characters are alphas.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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