Pathological Hidden Agenda

[tcaudilllg]

My research on the hidden agenda, when applied to the self-defeating methods of psychopathology, have unveiled something very unexpected.... This list is under revision, because I'm a bit on the fence as to what these people want. i.e., does a ******-type want to experience strong hate, or rich hate -- or do they actually want to hate less? There seems to be evidence for both views.... I decided to post this here because it seems to me the *most* controversial thing I've ever posted on this forum.

ENTp, ESTp => to be hated or infamous
INTj, INFj => to be unhealthy or negative
ESFj, ESTj => to be defective or inaccurate
ISFp, INFp => to be misunderstood or to misunderstand
ENFj, ENTj => to be poor or weak
ISTj, ISFj => to be cynical or uncommited
ESFp, ENFp => to be ignorant or unwilling to communicate
INTp, ISTp => to hate


- to be hated for health
- to be hated for perfection
- to be hated for understanding
- to be hated for weakness
- to be hated for belief
- to be hated for knowledge
- to be hated for hating

- unhealthy fame
- unhealthy precision
- unhealthy understanding
- unhealthy strength
- unhealthy faith or commitment
- unhealthy knowledge or communication
- unhealthy love

- to be utterly hated
- to have poorly health
- to have complete failure of understanding
- to be utterly weak
- to be doubtful
- to have defective knowledge
- to hate perfectly

- to misunderstand being loved or to understand hate
- to misunderstand health
- to misunderstand perfection
- to misunderstand power
- to misunderstand belief
- to misunderstand knowledge
- to misunderstand love

- to be powerfully hated
- to possess weakness of health
- to be highly inaccurate or unskilled
- to strongly misunderstand
- to possess strong cynicism
- to possess great ignorance
- to possess strong hate

- to disdain good health
- to disbelieve in in the pursuit of perfection or efficiency
- to disbelieve in correct understanding
- to disbelieve in the importance of strength
- to disbelieve in others' love
- to disbelieve in knowledge or the need to communicate
- to disbelieve in the need for love

- to promote infamy
- to promote poor health
- to promote failure
- to promote misunderstanding
- to promote weakness
- to spread cynicism
- to spread hate

- to hate being loved
- to hate the healthy
- to hate the pursuit of perfection or efficiency
- to hate correct understanding
- to hate strength
- to hate effective communication or truth of knowledge
- to hate faith

Your analysis is eagerly awaited.

EDIT:
revised.... It seems to me that these people are in every sense of the word "evil". They actually desire the ability to cause troubles for the world. Why is this? Given that personal knowledge is their base, their instincts rule. They are unsocial, reptile-like minds that are dominated by their reactions. One recalls William Sidis' "pseudo-living being" who appears to be real on the outside but is actually quite dead, a mass of matter that seem alive and yet isn't. Sidis proposed that these people processed information very poorly due to inefficiency of mind. Certainly, the use of personal knowledge as opposed to base as the beginning of information processing distorts the accuracy of their analysis. And too, we remember the words of Adolf Eichmann, the Nazi commander who "enjoyed following orders because it reduced the need to think." The desire to reduce operation is an expected goal by an inefficient self-aware device. Although their instincts are strong, the cognitive capabilities of these individuals is poor and detrimental to the progress of society due to their inability to successfully adapt to its practices. Or so it would seem. In fact, their instincts merely have mastery; their cognitive capacities are adept and capable of causing social mischeif and misfortune, if only due to instinct's mastery over them. We can safely conclude thus, that these individuals desire the destruction of society for their own evolutionary benefit.

[Angel von Himmel]

Interesting ... so the listings with double functions are both functions of the Super-Id???

[tcaudilllg]

No, they have nothing to do with the suggestive half of the super-id. They are rather, the components of the agenda. We know there is a hidden agenda, but it the act of metabolizing the hidden agenda that releases the "visible", or outward agenda that is easily discerned. For example, you (or a socionics-unaware person) might think that my agenda is "power", without being aware that I have a hidden agenda. But I can only manipulate strength levels through the identification of dynamics. Likewise (as I've recently experienced) I am powerless in ill-health. Poor health damages my ability to manage numbers (from what I can deduce) and absolutely my coordination and self-confidence.

Your need to accomplish your hidden agenda to be able to function, in other words.

But what this thread is discussing, is the manifestation of hidden agenda when the aggressive function is in charge, as opposed to the base. When information metabolism starts at the personal knowledge function, a person's thinking is geared toward reaction or "non-thinking"; they avoid objective analysis in favor of an "inner truth" that is at best controversial, at worst war-like. The analysis of the other functions is skewered by the "corrupt" opening premise. This ultimately seems (I say that because I don't yet know -why-) to result in a perverse hidden agenda in which one desires the destruction of information as opposed to the creation of it. A healthy person seeks to clarify their estimations in search of a clearer truth. An "unhealthy" person seeks to indulge their estimations without seeking clarification. (I quote that because these people may well be the closest thing in existence to the concept of an objective evil.)

[FDG]

"to be hated or infamous "

Oh yes, I tend to identify with this more than the other. I generally enjoy being hated by males and being loved by girls

[UDP]

I can understand the first set,

but what about the second set, with two functions listed?
What am I supposed to be looking at?

[snegledmaca]

To be misunderstood is so true for me it's incredible. I'd even say that all my depressions and melancholy scenarios are about that.

[tcaudilllg]

I've edited this.

There is a discussion of normal crosstype hidden agendas in the General Discussion forum.

[Exodus]

My research...

What kind of research, exactly? How did you form these descriptions?

[tcaudilllg]

I've come to a conclusion regarding the motives of these people.

I actually think that they probably have "normal" hidden agendas from their own subjective viewpoint. However, the instinctual function of personal knowledge is in control, therefore the pursuit of the agenda is limited in scope. Personal knowledge is somewhat barbaric and oppressive: it desires the subjugation of all opinions which differ from its own. It tries to eliminate those who disagree with it and terrorize those who are non-commital to it. It tries to acheive ideological purity, to expunge everything that it does not understand and embrace its own subjective understanding as an absolute reality.

We usually have difficulty seeing people of the same ideology as ourselves as evil; we may be skeptical of the effectiveness of their ideas or of the moral fiber of their agendas. But it is difficult to lable them as evil: "troubled" or "dangerous" are more likely descriptions. (not that "troubled" means pathological) However, when we look at someone of similar disposition in the opposing ideology, we see someone that is without mercy, someone who lives to destroy us. Obviously the onus exists to lable these people as evil.

As a case in point, there are conservatives who look away from Ann Coulter and liberals who were angered by the execution of Saddam Hussein, but welcomed his overthrow. Conservatives would be unlikely to find Ann Coulter "evil", even though she promotes hatred against liberals and, if she was in a position sufficient for the task, would probably attempt to pursecute us. Likewise liberals were largely unbelieving of the atrocities that occurred under Saddam Hussein's regime against his opposition.

As we move from the 7th function to the 8th in our function cycle, the pathological individuals of the same ideology as ourselves move from their 7th to their 8th alongside us. It is by this syncronity of processing that they infect our understanding with determinations made not at the close of a thought cycle, but at its very beginning. We are functionally ill-suited to distinguish their subjectivist truths from the objective truths that we have forumulated through integration of our subjective experiences with objective reality, and it is by this natural failing that pathological types lead us astray.