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Thread: How to take socionics public

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    Default How to take socionics public.

    There seems to be a desire among many to get more attention, more input with regard to socionics. The following are some suggestions as to how the socionics community might attain this attention.

    1) Get published in North American psychology journals. There are several psychology journals some 20 feet away from me this instant and none of them say a thing about socionics. We need some initiative regarding the American / Anglo-European academic outlook; in particular, we need voices. People willing to vouch for socionics on Oprah, on CNN, FOX News, Dr. Phil. This wouldn't be very difficult, because the duality concept is right up thier alley. We just need people who 1) are willing to get the credentials (we have this academic establishment for a reason) and 2) are willing to put themselves in front of the national news media. I'm speaking in North American terms in particular, but that's just from a cultural point of reference. Socionics enthustiasts in every nation would be advantageous.

    2) Get ready for criticism. There will be a lot of brilliant people paying attention once word gets out. What will happen is something along the lines of Aleksander Boukalov's mathematical justifications of Socionics, but on a much larger scale. Augusta will not be regarded as the new social messiah the Russians seem to consider her as being; rather, she'll be torn to shreds. A new chapter in psychology will emerge with the information elements as base. Nietzsche once said psychology is the queen of the sciences; the information elements affirm his hypothesis. There will be attention, a lot of attention. In fact, the Russian school might get completely phased out of the discussion. History, once set in motion, has powerful inertia: if and when socionics is demonstrated to be profitable, power elites will begin moving in and... well, that's one of the concerns. Do we overhaul our social system on the basis of socionics? Do we demand that everyone marry their dual and regiment people towards one discipline or another, as was tried in Russia? Certainly with some 73% of Americans saying that they hate their jobs in a new poll, there is basis for a new level for social guidance; increased efficiency alone would be a motivator for change. Will we experience new forms of hate, of aggression, promulgated by new Hilters? Will there be anti-type groups desiring typological purification of various disciplines, and if there are, will we be courageous enough to deny these groups what they seek?

    All of these are good questions to ask ourselves when we consider making socionics more widespread and widely discussed.

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    I'll take the negativist approach here, It wouldn't work, it would have to be standardized and not based on opinions like it seems to be now. Think about it, we're on a site with a few hundred people (most of which are not that regular) and hardly anyone seems to be the same type in everyone's point of view. Take it public and the first thing everyone would ask is, "Who should we believe? Who is right and who is full of shit? Why is this person right and the other person wrong?" etc...
    To a lot of people in the world, this idea would be dismissed just because there's no certainty to it.
    Then again, I don't know shit about socionics so who am I to say anything...

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    1. This is a horrible plan if you want it to actually be considered science and not just another pseudoscience. New Agers and pseudoscientists that can't handle scientific criticism take the route of "science by press release." However, this method will definitely make it popular if you could succeed in doing it. However, it will do nothing to advanced or refine socionics.

    2. Of course it will receive criticism. However, you seem to be thinking criticism needs to be ignored. This is contrary to science. Criticism is how the truth of hypotheses is determined and how theories get refined. Public acceptance is worthless if socionics flounders in a state where it cannot be brought into closer alignment with reality.


    If you want socionics to truly become useful, to truly be meaningful, design some experiments to truly test it. Develop a standard, objective system as cracka said. Develop a testing system that returns accurate results with a high percentage (90+) of success. Get a representative sample group together, test relations, and see it intertype relations holds true. Either drop VI, or perform experiments to determine a standardized checklist of things to observe that correlate to type. Assume nothing to be true, attempt to disprove everything. And that which withstands criticism and has the support of evidence is likely to be true. And if socionics gets disproven, accept that it was an illusion and move on.

    Socionics, as far as I can tell without being able to read Russian, assumes some things to be true, and then there's just endless speculation and anecdotal support for some premises, with occasional ad hoc explanations for inconsistencies. That's not science. There's no reason why serious thinkers and scientists should take socionics seriously right now. The fact that its based upon Jung helps it none. Jung derived his theories (a few of them rather nutty. synchronicity, anyone?) in a very unscientific manner of anecdotes and intuition. There's a serious lack of a rigorous methodology to socionics, and that will only hurt it in the scientific community.

    Once you get socionics to a truly scientific state, then you can worry about public acceptance.
    That faith makes blessed under certain circumstances, that blessedness does not make of a fixed idea a true idea, that faith moves no mountains but puts mountains where there are none: a quick walk through a madhouse enlightens one sufficiently about this. (A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.) - Friedrich Nietzsche

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    The only way to do it is to bring it to academia first. The public must remain ignorant. Companies must remain ignorant. At least until there's an academic following.

    North American psychologists are all about the empirical evidence. They will dismiss anything that doesn't have this. They live shitty lives suffering from "publish or perish" syndrome whereby they're forced to do shitty little meaningless experiments for the majority of their careers to get credibility. There's no culture of "working together" here either. Look at personality psychology. Eyesenk, Cattell, Goldberg, they don't work together. They're more content to develop their own little systems whereby they have complete control. They compete with each other in work separate from one another. This individualistic mindset within North American academia is going to be difficult to penetrate. Working together means adding more variables, means sharing control.

    The best hope would be to somehow get one of these guy's attention and then have socionics properly correlated with his system of personality testing i.e. Goldberg and the Big 5. Then all the younger psychologists that follow this guy and adhere to his system will find the confidence to take up socionics.

    The most important thing is to keep this system in academia FOR AS LONG AS POSSIBLE. If this is done then maybe when businesses start testing it they will be willing to hire a professional psychologist into their hr department to deal with it. (only big wealthy businesses would ideally find it viable at first - small businesses can't afford a psychologist) i.e. Companies that use MBTI, I think SONY?

    Anyways I'm getting ahead of myself. For the system to reasonably transfer from Russia I think it's pertinent that it be brought here by North American Psychologists that have studied in Russia. If it comes directly from Russia then most of the information is immediately inaccessible to North Americans and will be ignored. It's preferable that we build upon what's already discovered rather than starting all over again

    In conclusion it's going to be a slow process or it's going to fail. I'm talking years and years. It has to be acknowledged by senior psychologists before psychologists-to-be will be permitted to focus their phd thesis studies on it.
    INFp-Ni

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    There are a couple of books written in russian about socionics.

    still there are none in english...

    I've myself once tried to make contact with a webmaster to translate a book. Unfortunately never heard of him...

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    Translate material and books, make websites on advanced material, create associations, make seminaries and courses, discuss on Socionics offline...

    As ORANGE and GREEN vMemes are more freindly to MBTT-Keirsey than Socionics ; it would be the opposite for YELLOW vMeme.

    I'm currently creating a french-language website...

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    aren't there any psychologists or MBTI experts on this forum who can take socionics to the Western world?

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    I actually started a Facebook socionics group.
    -Slava


    What a great replacement for a nany

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    aren't there any psychologists or MBTI experts on this forum who can take socionics to the Western world?
    no, because MBTI is a political thing

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    I think that making socionics public would be very difficult because of the implications people would draw from it. Also, a lot of people prefer to be ignorant of other types so they can live in a comfortable reality where they can think of other views as the devil and their own as right. Those people will think we are gay for being happy peaceful hippies spreading love, and in reality there does need to be conflict for humanity to progress, as much as I hate it (both conflict and humanity ). We represent the inert molecules that discuss things that we cannot evade. Some of us were forced to accept them early in life and some of us later in life. The thing that bugs me most is ignorant people living in a society that favors their kind. This is a major road block for socionics, because those people try to justify all correctness around their own comforts and preferences... I found this out when I caught onto the patterns and had an easier time figuring out the rules and laws without even knowing the complex books of law. This is what spawns varying versions of the DSM-type books in different societies.
    -Slava


    What a great replacement for a nany

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slava2
    Those people will think we are gay for being happy peaceful hippies spreading love, and in reality there does need to be conflict for humanity to progress, as much as I hate it (both conflict and humanity ).
    hippie is actually a m&b thing... basically m&b is , and socionics is

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    Default We must know, we shall know



    "Wir müssen wissen, wir werden wissen"
    David Hilbert


    The Mathematical Problems of David Hilbert

    About Hilbert's address and his 23 mathematical problems

    Hilbert's address of 1900 to the International Congress of Mathematicians in Paris is perhaps the most influential speech ever given to mathematicians, given by a mathematician, or given about mathematics. In it, Hilbert outlined 23 major mathematical problems to be studied in the coming century. Some are broad, such as the axiomatization of physics (problem 6) and might never be considered completed. Others, such as problem 3, were much more specific and solved quickly. Some were resolved contrary to Hilbert's expectations, as the continuum hypothesis (problem 1).
    Hilbert's address was more than a collection of problems. It outlined his philosophy of mathematics and proposed problems important to his philosophy.

    Although almost a century old, Hilbert's address is still important and should be read (at least in part) by anyone interested in pursuing research in mathematics.

    Hilbert's problems

    Could we perhaps try to do something along these lines?
    What are the central problems to be solved before socionics can be taken public?
    How to determine the socionics type, would certainly rank high on the list. :wink:
    And what is the socionics type, in essence?
    "Arnie is strong, rightfully angry and wants to kill somebody."
    martin_g_karlsson


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    Default Re: We must know, we shall know

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousSoul
    And what is the socionics type, in essence?
    Socionics could have many types, but it's mainly ENTp, because Rick said that the 1st function is the ends, and the 2nd is the means. Aushra basically created a scientific discipline intended for use.

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