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Thread: LIEs-ENTjs being creative, clever and original

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    Default LIEs-ENTjs being creative, clever and original

    Is it not unusual for some ENTj's to be bizarre fashion geniuses, with the ability to match clothing stylishly and wildly, giving them a unique individual flare that stands out? Could they be carelessly clever with patterns, and possibly find enjoyment in creating things with unique twists?

    are their personalities known to be unusually quirky and unpredictable, and even bizarre? is it normal for them to make unusual faces in photographs when they're feeling joyful? all of this, while still maintaining a serious, and productive, optimistic, businesslike attitude?

    Is it normal for them to appear quiet, elegant, slightly avoiding attention, yet still openly friendly with strangers, maintaining a wide open greeting smile?

    if you want an example of what I'm talking about, take a look at the Japanese pop star Miyavi. I've known quite a few people with his mannerisms that I suspected to be ENTj, ISFj, and even ISTj. for some odd reason I find those types to be the most difficult to pin down, and I seem to always get them mixed up.

    I only ask if this is ENTj behavior because the mannerisms of these people remind me a bit of the famous director Quentin Tarantino.


    Oh, and if you wanted a better look at what I'm talking about here are some clips of Miyavi in action...

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whYUYZApPZU[/youtube]

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBgRxCWdDT4 [/youtube]

    The people that I know in real life are not really as insane as that, but their behavior is similar in a strange way.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r65dB-20mkk (a calmer interview if you're interested)
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    It would be easier if I could understand what he's saying... but regardless, if he's not drunk or up on something in those clips, ENTj seems pretty unlikely imo. So much wasteful energy. If he's Gamma, ESFp makes more sense to me. If he's not, Se and/or EP.
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    Oh yeah, and if he's a big pop star, chances are good he didn't pick out his own outfits.
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    Quote Originally Posted by science as magic
    i think tarantino is enfj as are the stylists to which i believe you are referring
    agreed on both counts.

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    are their personalities known to be unusually quirky and unpredictable, and even bizarre? is it normal for them to make unusual faces in photographs when they're feeling joyful? all of this, while still maintaining a serious, and productive, optimistic, businesslike attitude?
    yes, yes, and YES! The most intelligent and funniest person I know is an ENTj, and I wouldn't doubt that many people mistake ENTjs for being ENTps. I hate all of these myths that ENTjs are somehow these ultra-somber business freaks that can't ever be fun. And he does have very bad fashion sense, but it's always somehow appropriate to his slightly spaced-out personality, it's bad in a good way.

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    Starfall, I think you're describing ENFjs actually of the "crazed" version as opposed to "business" version

    I love the way he's dressed in the second clip
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    lol, whatever pills this Japanese guy is on, I want some!

    ENTjs are among the easiest types for me to recognise because I have a lot of close friends who are clearly this type. Yes, they often tend to buy expensive clothes which they then somehow manage to combine in a way that shows a complete lack of fashion sense But they don't really care, so long as their clothes help attract attention. They like attracting attention, being noticed. One of my friends likes to quote an old politician's words "I don't care whether I get bad or good publicity, so long as I get it". They are not at all sombre, quite the opposite: they are usually in a good mood, are often funny and like to poke their friends with (often shocking) jokes especially in front of other friends. The first time he met one of my ENTJ friends, an ENFp friend joked privately that the ENTj was nice but he looked like he had "missed his appointment with taste".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grek0
    But they don't really care, so long as their clothes help attract attention. They like attracting attention, being noticed.
    Is this even type related, or personality? I myself am like this, and I know respectively an ISTp and an ENFp and an ESFj that have the same philosophy.
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    Yeah, I think Miyavi might not be the best example for what I'm talking about. He appears crazier than most (even though he says he's shy around fans ) and he even said that he never buys his own clothing; he'll just wear the free stuff that he gets from photo shoots, or the stuff that's donated by fans. He's just a small example of what I'm talking about though. I know one person in particular who reminds me of a more toned down Miyavi who is marvelous when it comes down to her clothing, all with originality and flare, and a lot of times it looks very businesslike. Sometimes she will even paint pictures on her shirts and pants, which actually turns out to be pretty amazing, and her room is even more amazing. I suspected her to be ISFj for a long time, but something seems off.

    So anyway, I guess ENTj is out of the question then, and ENFj is a better possibility for that kind of behavior? I have pictures of my friends, but I know they would probably want to strangle me if I actually went and posted their pictures! I suppose a strong function of theirs could also be like Joy said, because these people are probably some of the most determined, hard working, ambitious, beings that I've ever met in person.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    "determined, hard working, ambitious" applies to Se types too. There are more dichotomies involved in those traits than simply rationality/irrationality.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall
    Sometimes she will even paint pictures on her shirts and pants
    I do this too...(i think i posted a pic of one of them)(an istp friend wanted to convince me to start a business about it, lol) I'm not really hard working enough though

    What about ENFp?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by Grek0
    But they don't really care, so long as their clothes help attract attention. They like attracting attention, being noticed.
    Is this even type related, or personality? I myself am like this, and I know respectively an ISTp and an ENFp and an ESFj that have the same philosophy.
    No, I am sure many other types also view clothing as a means to attract attention. I have no reason to claim it is exclusive to ENTjs, I am just saying it is clear in them because they are one of the few types I am so familiar with
    INTJ [mbti]
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    A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

    -Robert A. Heinlein

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    what--you mean user expat isn't the defintion of entj in every possible context? i'm baffled. appalled. goshdarned?
    asd

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    Quote Originally Posted by heath
    what--you mean user expat isn't the defintion of entj in every possible context? i'm baffled. appalled. goshdarned?
    Has anyone ever made such a claim? I certainly haven't. I strongly advise everyone not to use me - or anyone else - as the "definition" of any type. Besides, there are ENTjs who are indeed more Fe-focused than I am. Having said that, those guys Grek0 described sounded more like the "yuppie" kind of ENFj but perhaps also ENTj-Ni.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by Grek0
    But they don't really care, so long as their clothes help attract attention. They like attracting attention, being noticed.
    Is this even type related, or personality? I myself am like this, and I know respectively an ISTp and an ENFp and an ESFj that have the same philosophy.
    To like attracting attention, and being noticed by people generally (not only close ones) as a core motivation (rather than a means to an end) is Fe related. That doesn't mean that only Fe types or even Fe quadra types do it.

    Is that really the "philosophy" of the ISTp as something s/he really feels, or is it your interpretation of the motivations, or something s/he does because it's "necessary"?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by Grek0
    But they don't really care, so long as their clothes help attract attention. They like attracting attention, being noticed.
    Is this even type related, or personality? I myself am like this, and I know respectively an ISTp and an ENFp and an ESFj that have the same philosophy.
    To like attracting attention, and being noticed by people generally (not only close ones) as a core motivation (rather than a means to an end) is Fe related. That doesn't mean that only Fe types or even Fe quadra types do it.

    Is that really the "philosophy" of the ISTp as something s/he really feels, or is it your interpretation of the motivations, or something s/he does because it's "necessary"?
    I myself can't use this approach of whether this or that activity or characteristic exhibited is Fe-related or not because it seems dangerously limiting and I might even dare to guess that this type of approach is the source of the whole lot of confusion which arises often when typing other people ("this thing that she does? It's clearly (?!) Si related, she is not Si therefore we've got her type wrong"). As for ENFjs, I have only interacted a bit with one of them, someone I used to work with. Therefpre I do not know them enough. He clearly enjoyed being noticed but on the other hand and unlike my ENTj friends, he lacked the amusing ability to combine what, as stand-alone pieces, were elegant and nice clothes into a rather "kitch" whole.
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    A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

    -Robert A. Heinlein

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grek0
    lol, whatever pills this Japanese guy is on, I want some!

    ENTjs are among the easiest types for me to recognise because I have a lot of close friends who are clearly this type. Yes, they often tend to buy expensive clothes which they then somehow manage to combine in a way that shows a complete lack of fashion sense But they don't really care, so long as their clothes help attract attention. They like attracting attention, being noticed. One of my friends likes to quote an old politician's words "I don't care whether I get bad or good publicity, so long as I get it". They are not at all sombre, quite the opposite: they are usually in a good mood, are often funny and like to poke their friends with (often shocking) jokes especially in front of other friends. The first time he met one of my ENTJ friends, an ENFp friend joked privately that the ENTj was nice but he looked like he had "missed his appointment with taste".
    lol. are you sure you weren't talking to my dad? he even quotes the same guy. are these ENTjs that people tend to think are ESXps or ENFj because of their rambunctious behavior? (i do believe my dad is a -ENTj.) i wouldn't say he dresses that "flashy" but he does like some flashy, expensive things.
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    Heh, I don't think I would mistake an ENTj for an ESFP or ESTP. People who confuse them probably don't have enough experience of interacting with these types. As for ENFj, I am not so sure. My ENTj friends also like to wear expensive clothes, not necessarilly too "flashy" or with bright colours, but something expensive with a couple of twists which they think are fashionable and will be noticed. Their often weird and (to me) funny aesthetic sense extends to furniture and other items too
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    A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

    -Robert A. Heinlein

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    As a general observation, many yuppies of the I'm-such-a-corporate-guy sort are ENFjs, rather than ENTjs as people often think. They are ENFjs of what might be called "JFK subtype" rather than ENFjs of the unique-even-if-strange sort, like Marylin Manson, or of the follow-my-vision type like Trotsky.

    The "yuppie" ENFjs are the classical "achiever" Enneagram 3 type in my interpretation.

    However, Ni subtype ENTjs will often behave like such ENFjs, so the distinction may be tricky. I would say that, as a first impression, the ENFjs are more successful at making the desired impression, and the ENTjs will be more awkward, slightly out of focus.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall
    Sometimes she will even paint pictures on her shirts and pants
    I do this too...(i think i posted a pic of one of them)(an istp friend wanted to convince me to start a business about it, lol) I'm not really hard working enough though

    What about ENFp?

    Yes! I've told her numerous times that she could probably make a good profit off of clothing designs, but she finds it to be totally pointless. Even though she's interested in fashion she sees it as only a spare hobby, and seemingly sees no point in doing something that she'll find no personal gain in the future. She says she wants to set her future goals much higher. I'm guessing that you also find it to be more of a spare hobby as well?

    I'm not too sure about ENFp, but it could be a possibility. The reason I was thinking of a judging type instead is the simple fact these people will stress themselves out silly if they are not organized, and tidy. If they get a project in school they will start it the very same day it is assigned, and finish it as soon as possible. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that these types of people are not big on procrastinating, which is something I think ENFp's are more prone to?

    I think what Expat said about the the "yuppie" ENFjs and the classical "achiever" makes sense. If Marylin Manson is ENFj, then I'm sure there is a good chance that people like Miyavi are too. The whole ENFj overachiever thing fits perfectly with the people that I know. The only thing that doesn't seem to fit is the fact that I strangely feel supervised by them, and unlike the usual ENFj's they find petty things like gossip to be silly and unimportant. They are not really concerned with popularity at all, unless of course they gain something out of it. They mainly keep all of their concerns strictly to their work, and they are set only on being successful. Interestingly enough, I do find that most of them have some kind of huge obsession with some kind of idle which they claim to get all their inspiration from.
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    I know a few ENTj guys. They are all awesome. They are really friendly and dont judge many people.

    They both wear hats a lot, one is bald and one just likes it. The one whos not bald gets annoyed if he has to go somewhere where he cant wear it. I think its about doing his hair and not being sure how to make it look.

    My friend just loves to laugh and joke around. Hes also damn tough. Hes going through a really hard time right now and even though i can tell its affecting him, he never complains and keeps his chin up. If i have a small drama i will tell him about it and whinge. Hes the mark of a true optimist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall
    Sometimes she will even paint pictures on her shirts and pants
    I do this too...(i think i posted a pic of one of them)(an istp friend wanted to convince me to start a business about it, lol) I'm not really hard working enough though

    What about ENFp?

    Yes! I've told her numerous times that she could probably make a good profit off of clothing designs, but she finds it to be totally pointless. Even though she's interested in fashion she sees it as only a spare hobby, and seemingly sees no point in doing something that she'll find no personal gain in the future. She says she wants to set her future goals much higher. I'm guessing that you also find it to be more of a spare hobby as well?

    I'm not too sure about ENFp, but it could be a possibility. The reason I was thinking of a judging type instead is the simple fact these people will stress themselves out silly if they are not organized, and tidy. If they get a project in school they will start it the very same day it is assigned, and finish it as soon as possible. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that these types of people are not big on procrastinating, which is something I think ENFp's are more prone to?

    I think what Expat said about the the "yuppie" ENFjs and the classical "achiever" makes sense. If Marylin Manson is ENFj, then I'm sure there is a good chance that people like Miyavi are too. The whole ENFj overachiever thing fits perfectly with the people that I know. The only thing that doesn't seem to fit is the fact that I strangely feel supervised by them, and unlike the usual ENFj's they find petty things like gossip to be silly and unimportant. They are not really concerned with popularity at all, unless of course they gain something out of it. They mainly keep all of their concerns strictly to their work, and they are set only on being successful. Interestingly enough, I do find that most of them have some kind of huge obsession with some kind of idle which they claim to get all their inspiration from.
    They don't sound like good people to me from your description. "Popularity only if they get something out of it", bah. Maybe you feel supervised by them because you feel like you are not using your talents enough whereas they are pushing them everywhere. Personally, I didn't even know those kind of obsessed people existed before I entered college. Anyway, yes, the fact that they are so freaking organized do sound like they are J types.
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    I like ENTjs alot, but I find that the ones I have known IRL can also be rather longwinded. Rather than giving a straightforward answer, they prefer to explain in detail how they arrive to their conclusion.

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    You are Te dual-seeking, you are supposed to love that!
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Is it not unusual for some ENTj's to be bizarre fashion geniuses, with the ability to match clothing stylishly and wildly, giving them a unique individual flare that stands out? Could they be carelessly clever with patterns, and possibly find enjoyment in creating things with unique twists?

    are their personalities known to be unusually quirky and unpredictable, and even bizarre? is it normal for them to make unusual faces in photographs when they're feeling joyful? all of this, while still maintaining a serious, and productive, optimistic, businesslike attitude?

    Is it normal for them to appear quiet, elegant, slightly avoiding attention, yet still openly friendly with strangers, maintaining a wide open greeting smile?
    I certainly think so. In my opinion, some of the most creative and prolific artistic geniuses have been ENTjs. A clear example I can think of is Tori Amos. While I'm sure there are some who would disagree that she's ENTj, take a look at some of her famous quotes.

    Tori Amos:
    "If you call me a new-age, airy-fairy, hippie-dippy airhead I will shove my crystals up your ass."

    "When someone French kisses another woman to try and get something, that isn't passion; it's very interesting to me, an intriguing study. If you're going to French kiss somebody, French kiss a woman that can say, 'Okay, honey; okay sister, come with me and I'll show you a tongue like you've never seen before'. If you're going to walk down that road, do it! A tongue does not touch the intelligence inside another person. you know?"

    “Women must understand that simply attacking or hating men is just another form of disempowerment. A woman has to realize that when she makes a man crawl it doesn't give her power.”

    “In real life I'm bone dry and when I play I'm a mango and in sex I'm starving to be a dripping mango”

    “In our minds, love and lust are really separated. It's hard to find someone that can be kind and you can trust enough to leave your kids with, and isn't afraid to throw her man up against the wall and lick him from head to toe.”

    “If they keep crashing stuff into the moon, the moon's gonna get pissed off, and the tides'll change, and all the women'll start PMS-ing together. Then you guys are going to fucking regret it.”

    She's interesting .

    To me she represents the very artistic, Ni-subtype ENTj, many of whom are intellectuals. Many people believe she's an SF type, but if you look closer you'll see a very analytical and abstract thinker. She's also tough as nails and not afraid to speak her mind. She rocks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uninspired
    “If they keep crashing stuff into the moon, the moon's gonna get pissed off, and the tides'll change, and all the women'll start PMS-ing together. Then you guys are going to fucking regret it.”
    awesome.
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    OMG! Is that guy on drugs?! Alcohol?!

    Or is he just crazy.

    Watching that was uncomfortable.

    Nothing like the ENTj I know. Reminds me of an ISFp friend however.

    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    I like ENTjs alot, but I find that the ones I have known IRL can also be rather longwinded. Rather than giving a straightforward answer, they prefer to explain in detail how they arrive to their conclusion.
    ? You don't like that? I'd much prefer explanations when someone makes a claim. Or to give examples. It paints a clearer picture. Rather than just giving me a straightforward answer.
    INTp
    sx/sp

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