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Thread: LSI-IEE Conflict Relations (ISTj and ENFp)

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    Default LSI-IEE Conflict Relations (ISTj and ENFp)

    My dad just told me that when i drink i should drink with my arm in not my arm out
    He interrupted my conversation with my mum to tell me this. Now maybe it is more efficient or whatever to drink the way he says but i dont spill much and the water does go down into my body. I was about to point out one of his countless bad habits but i held my tounge.

    ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)

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    He just made up for it by telling me hes giving me some something. It has nothing to do with him feeling sorry for me or anything.

    LOL fucking ISTj's
    ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)

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    aww that sucks! I'm sure you drink just fine. Arm in, arm out, who cares? :wink:

    I once got furious at an ENTp who told me I cut my food incorrectly, I feel your pain.
    Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)

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    rofl

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    Quote Originally Posted by jewels
    I once got furious at an ENTp who told me I cut my food incorrectly, I feel your pain.
    oh my god i know. My dad does that all the time. I never cook or do anything in the kitchen and i blame him . He will comment on everything im doing wrong. "Your cutting the watermellon the wrong way". Im thinking in my head "if you dont shut up im gonna smash it over your head" lol. Hes normally right but as ENFp's we just dont care if the watermellon is in big straight peices or small jagged ones
    ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)

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    Default Re: Conflicting with ISTj's

    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger
    My dad just told me that when i drink i should drink with my arm in not my arm out
    I would like to know how he feels about toe positions? I'm trying to optimize a bit more but I can't figure out how to keep my toes to achieve maximum movement with minimum effort. Anyways he has some truth in that as it is easier on your shoulders if you keep your arm in. You might thank him when you are 80.

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    Default Re: Conflicting with ISTj's

    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    I would like to know how he feels about toe positions? I'm trying to optimize a bit more but I can't figure out how to keep my toes to achieve maximum movement with minimum effort. Anyways he has some truth in that as it is easier on your shoulders if you keep your arm in. You might thank him when you are 80.
    lol yeah he probablly is right but if hes going to critisise me he might as well do it about how much KFC i eat. My heart is more likely to explode from too much chicken before my shoulders give out

    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    You mean some people DO care?
    Yep. The magical and wonderous LSI
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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    rofl
    My sentiment exactly. And a WTH.

    EDIT: Was you dad drunk by any chance?

    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger
    Quote Originally Posted by jewels
    I once got furious at an ENTp who told me I cut my food incorrectly, I feel your pain.
    oh my god i know. My dad does that all the time. I never cook or do anything in the kitchen and i blame him . He will comment on everything im doing wrong. "Your cutting the watermellon the wrong way". Im thinking in my head "if you dont shut up im gonna smash it over your head" lol. Hes normally right but as ENFp's we just dont care if the watermellon is in big straight peices or small jagged ones
    I think this is unrelated to being an LSI and is more an expressions of perfectionism (I say this because I'm the same way, I'd tell you to cut it "right" as well, while a LSI friend of mine does things sloppier then any E**p).

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    I don't know if this is possible with your Dad, seeing that he's an authority figure, but I deal with anal-retentive ISTjs by snapping right back at them when they snap at me. Of course I do it in a jocular, light-hearted tone, but I make it a point to tease them for blowing up about silly, unimportant things. For example, my one ISTj friend gave me grief for being (slightly) late to meet him once, telling me that "a responsible person would have left on time." I told him to shut his damn mouth, and that a responsible person wouldn't be caught dead with him in the first place. So if it's possible, just joke around with your Dad the next time he says something useless like that.
    - infp

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    Quote Originally Posted by uninspired
    I don't know if this is possible with your Dad, seeing that he's an authority figure, but I deal with anal-retentive ISTjs by snapping right back at them when they snap at me. Of course I do it in a jocular, light-hearted tone, but I make it a point to tease them for blowing up about silly, unimportant things. For example, my one ISTj friend gave me grief for being (slightly) late to meet him once, telling me that "a responsible person would have left on time." I told him to shut his damn mouth, and that a responsible person wouldn't be caught dead with him in the first place. So if it's possible, just joke around with your Dad the next time he says something useless like that.
    - infp
    Lol, I do the exact same thing, that is, point to the general absurdness of what they've just done in a lighthearted manner.

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    Lol, I do the exact same thing, that is, point to the general absurdness of what they've just done in a lighthearted manner.
    Yeah i know what you mean. Unfortunately i would say that the difference is you can do that in an way so the ISTj accepts it.
    If i try doing that the coversation will end up like

    Me: "Hehe yeah i know but its not important"
    Dad: "but it is important"
    Me: "its not important to me"
    Dad: "It should be important to you"


    and so on. From my years of living with my dad theres only one way i personally believe i can minimise conflict. One thing i have noticed is that i NEVER critisise him. Its only one way.

    When he critises me about something i just have to take it on the chin and agree with him and not question it.
    for anyone thats interested Heres another conversation we had two nights ago:

    Dad: "I overheard you last night saying you were having trouble with university"
    Me: "Ahh it was just one class and i think im understanding it now"
    Dad "I think its a good idea to drop a class to make it easier"
    Me: "Yeah i could but nah i think i will be ok"
    Dad: "No it probablly would be best for you"
    Me: "Everyone else copes with the full subjects and i can too"
    Dad "Dont compare yourself to everyone else do what you need to do to pass"
    Me: "Have some faith in me. I believe i can pass!"
    Dad: - Shrugs off my Fi "oh well its a still a good idea"
    Me: "ok i will consider it dad"
    Dad: "You really should consider it"
    Me: "I will consider it"


    All the while the fury was building inside me almost to the point of exploding. If i attacked him in any manner it would have turned into a full blown yelling argument. Of course im not going to consider dropping a class though i just lied.

    The thing is he was trying to help me. He was trying to do whats best. I see that . As an ENFp im good at maintaning relationships so i will just have to stay calm :wink:
    ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)

    "And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Ana´s Nin

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    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger
    Dad: "I overheard you last night saying you were having trouble with university"
    Me: "Ahh it was just one class and i think im understanding it now"
    Dad "I think its a good idea to drop a class to make it easier"
    Me: "Yeah i could but nah i think i will be ok"
    Dad: "No it probablly would be best for you"
    Me: "Everyone else copes with the full subjects and i can too"
    Dad "Dont compare yourself to everyone else do what you need to do to pass"
    Me: "Have some faith in me. I believe i can pass!"
    Dad: - Shrugs off my Fi "oh well its a still a good idea"
    Me: "ok i will consider it dad"
    Dad: "You really should consider it"
    Me: "I will consider it"


    All the while the fury was building inside me almost to the point of exploding. If i attacked him in any manner it would have turned into a full blown yelling argument. Of course im not going to consider dropping a class though i just lied.

    The thing is he was trying to help me. He was trying to do whats best. I see that . As an ENFp im good at maintaning relationships so i will just have to stay calm :wink:
    Wow, u managed to stay patient throughout the whole conversation! Just reading that irritating me. Grr.
    INTp
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    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger
    Quote Originally Posted by jewels
    I once got furious at an ENTp who told me I cut my food incorrectly, I feel your pain.
    oh my god i know. My dad does that all the time. I never cook or do anything in the kitchen and i blame him . He will comment on everything im doing wrong. "Your cutting the watermellon the wrong way". Im thinking in my head "if you dont shut up im gonna smash it over your head" lol. Hes normally right but as ENFp's we just dont care if the watermellon is in big straight peices or small jagged ones
    my mother used to do it but once i broke out suddenly in anger and punched a wooden door breaking it and she stopped. I don't think it's type realted anyway, my ISTJ dad couldn't care less about how I do things as long as I don't make a mess. But he does give the "advice" you mention. The way I deal with it is, by reasoning back to him as to why. I think that what makes him insist is that you aren't giving him reasons/examples as, for example, WHY you should be able to go on with the course (you can even make them up saying you have already been able to stand a similar situation)
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Hehe yeah. Funnily enough im in the reverse situation. My ISFj mother never challenges anything like that or if she does she does it using Fi so i dont mind. I have also punched a door in an argument with my dad LOL. He fixed it about a week ago and it was broken for about 3 years.

    I think an ISTj would see the Ti and Se in your actions though FDG and be mostly pleased with them. Yeah my dads getting pretty old though and is particularly grumpy perhaps even for an ISTj lol.
    ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)

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    wow.

    my isfj mother has created many rules around the house too, correct ways to do things and what not. i used to blow the codes off in my much younger days (which kid does not ) but try to stick to them now whenever i get to go home those few times in a year. but, she is still not very satisfied with the changes... and i think that's mom, not type, related . once she told me to do some handwashing at the back of the house. after dilly-dallying for awhile, i went to the back and started washing my clothes. she appeared and said that i will go into the shower after i'm done. i said okay; i did not want her to nag (parents don't really recognise that you've grown do they ). time passed and i got my chores done. i re-entered our house only to have her stand in my way and command, "okay, go into the shower now!" at that point, i got exasperated so i said loudly to her, "MA! i have to get my towel first!!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger
    Dad: "I overheard you last night saying you were having trouble with university"
    Me: "Ahh it was just one class and i think im understanding it now"
    Dad "I think its a good idea to drop a class to make it easier"
    Me: "Yeah i could but nah i think i will be ok"
    Dad: "No it probablly would be best for you"
    Me: "Everyone else copes with the full subjects and i can too"
    Dad "Dont compare yourself to everyone else do what you need to do to pass"
    Me: "Have some faith in me. I believe i can pass!"
    Dad: - Shrugs off my Fi "oh well its a still a good idea"
    Me: "ok i will consider it dad"
    Dad: "You really should consider it"
    Me: "I will consider it"
    I had exactly the same conversation with my INTj Ti subtype dad once. He even advised me to take a break for one semester from university or even drop out of school after I complained to him that college is a waste of my time. I did consider his suggestion seriously, but I didn't know what I wanted as a career then, so I chose the lesser of the two evils, which is to stay on and complete my degree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uninspired
    I told him to shut his damn mouth, and that a responsible person wouldn't be caught dead with him in the first place.
    LOL

    My ISTj mom would rip my head off if I said that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    My ISTj mom would rip my head off if I said that.
    Are you sure? I've found ISTjs to be surprisingly...responsive to abrasive statements like those when they are being unreasonable.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    LOL

    This ISTj I used to work with asked me what my husband and I thought of this restaurant. I said we loved it (which we did and still do) so she went. Then the next workday she was angry with me because I told her it was a good restaurant and she hated it. She said the chicken was too dry. Well the chicken isn't deep-fried . . .excuse me. It was an Indian place so the chicken was cooked in a tandoori. Anyway, she said their favorite restaurant is Bennigans or Applebee's or something like that and she'd never go to the Indian place again. I warned her it was different than what she might be used to. But she had this idea that restaurants are simply Good or Bad and there is no room for different people to feel differently about the same restaurant. She acted like she wanted me to give her the money that they'd paid to eat at this place or something - like I'd deceived them when I said we liked it and it was my financial responsibility.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger
    Quote Originally Posted by jewels
    I once got furious at an ENTp who told me I cut my food incorrectly, I feel your pain.
    oh my god i know. My dad does that all the time. I never cook or do anything in the kitchen and i blame him . He will comment on everything im doing wrong. "Your cutting the watermellon the wrong way". Im thinking in my head "if you dont shut up im gonna smash it over your head" lol. Hes normally right but as ENFp's we just dont care if the watermellon is in big straight peices or small jagged ones
    my mother used to do it but once i broke out suddenly in anger and punched a wooden door breaking it and she stopped. I don't think it's type realted anyway, my ISTJ dad couldn't care less about how I do things as long as I don't make a mess. But he does give the "advice" you mention. The way I deal with it is, by reasoning back to him as to why. I think that what makes him insist is that you aren't giving him reasons/examples as, for example, WHY you should be able to go on with the course (you can even make them up saying you have already been able to stand a similar situation)
    maybe but I suppose you'd also have to be using concrete examples or facts. Or something that Ne types don't really give! heh. Everytime .. i don't think im exaggerating.. everytime i correct my ISTj friend's logic she won't listen but will change the subject. If she corrects mine according to something concrete it will also deflate the conversation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger
    Quote Originally Posted by jewels
    I once got furious at an ENTp who told me I cut my food incorrectly, I feel your pain.
    oh my god i know. My dad does that all the time. I never cook or do anything in the kitchen and i blame him . He will comment on everything im doing wrong. "Your cutting the watermellon the wrong way". Im thinking in my head "if you dont shut up im gonna smash it over your head" lol. Hes normally right but as ENFp's we just dont care if the watermellon is in big straight peices or small jagged ones
    my mother used to do it but once i broke out suddenly in anger and punched a wooden door breaking it and she stopped. I don't think it's type realted anyway, my ISTJ dad couldn't care less about how I do things as long as I don't make a mess. But he does give the "advice" you mention. The way I deal with it is, by reasoning back to him as to why. I think that what makes him insist is that you aren't giving him reasons/examples as, for example, WHY you should be able to go on with the course (you can even make them up saying you have already been able to stand a similar situation)
    maybe but I suppose you'd also have to be using concrete examples or facts. Or something that Ne types don't really give! heh. Everytime .. i don't think im exaggerating.. everytime i correct my ISTj friend's logic she won't listen but will change the subject.
    See, if a person does that, I automatically assume I was right...
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    My ISTj mom would rip my head off if I said that.
    Are you sure? I've found ISTjs to be surprisingly...responsive to abrasive statements like those when they are being unreasonable.
    Hmmm, I'll have to try it then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger
    Quote Originally Posted by jewels
    I once got furious at an ENTp who told me I cut my food incorrectly, I feel your pain.
    oh my god i know. My dad does that all the time. I never cook or do anything in the kitchen and i blame him . He will comment on everything im doing wrong. "Your cutting the watermellon the wrong way". Im thinking in my head "if you dont shut up im gonna smash it over your head" lol. Hes normally right but as ENFp's we just dont care if the watermellon is in big straight peices or small jagged ones
    my mother used to do it but once i broke out suddenly in anger and punched a wooden door breaking it and she stopped. I don't think it's type realted anyway, my ISTJ dad couldn't care less about how I do things as long as I don't make a mess. But he does give the "advice" you mention. The way I deal with it is, by reasoning back to him as to why. I think that what makes him insist is that you aren't giving him reasons/examples as, for example, WHY you should be able to go on with the course (you can even make them up saying you have already been able to stand a similar situation)
    maybe but I suppose you'd also have to be using concrete examples or facts. Or something that Ne types don't really give! heh. Everytime .. i don't think im exaggerating.. everytime i correct my ISTj friend's logic she won't listen but will change the subject.
    See, if a person does that, I automatically assume I was right...
    haha, me too!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    LOL

    This ISTj I used to work with asked me what my husband and I thought of this restaurant. I said we loved it (which we did and still do) so she went. Then the next workday she was angry with me because I told her it was a good restaurant and she hated it. She said the chicken was too dry. Well the chicken isn't deep-fried . . .excuse me. It was an Indian place so the chicken was cooked in a tandoori. Anyway, she said their favorite restaurant is Bennigans or Applebee's or something like that and she'd never go to the Indian place again. I warned her it was different than what she might be used to. But she had this idea that restaurants are simply Good or Bad and there is no room for different people to feel differently about the same restaurant. She acted like she wanted me to give her the money that they'd paid to eat at this place or something - like I'd deceived them when I said we liked it and it was my financial responsibility.
    she was angry with you ? i'll just go ahead and call this woman a gone-case regardless of her type. she was being unreasonable... well, if you ask people for their personal opinions on restaurants, then you'd better expect subjectivity. what an uncivilised freak (not that i'm refined myself but this is madness.)

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    Default Conflict relations ISTj and ENFp

    A very old friend of mine seems to be an ENFp, and I have to say the description of conflicting relationship fits perfectly. We can only be friends at a distance, even if I think we both respect each other and would like more.
    Do you think I can improve things? I'd like to go about this by changing my behavior, is there a way I can throw some Si or Te at him, and how can I stop poking my Ti into his PolR?

    Does this even make sense? (c:
    LSI

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    Well if you are very old friends, it seems to me that you already reached a point of balance.

    An ISTj male friend of mine has been friends with an ENFp woman for decades - they are almost exactly the same age and they've been working together in the same university department.

    They get along well on a daily basis (from what I could see), and he responds to her moments. Since their birthdays are very close, more than once they have organized big parties together.

    So one day I got surprised at a comment the ISTj made. The ENFp woman's husband had left her, and they were at a bitter fight over life insurance, money, etc. During the conversation, the ISTj said, "well, to be honest, if I had beem married to her, I'd also leave her. It would drive me nuts. She can't keep appointments, forgets things, has her head in the clouds, has all sort of bizarre ideas".

    On another occasion, he asked me, "can anyone be really like that? Sometimes I think it's some kind of affectation she has".

    So probably the one thing you have to do (and perhaps you're already doing it) is accept ENFps as they are.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    I once read somewhere that conflicting relationships can only be continued when both partners keep a polite approach toward eachother.

    My own advice with conflictors is, avoid them. (I've had a conflict relationship for 4 years)

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    My sister's an ENFP, and don't get me wrong we love each other as siblings do, but i can't stand living with her.
    ISTj.

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    Its very nice of you potatospirit to care enough to try to make it work. Are you a female? Are you sure youre an ISTj? Sometimes duals can feel a little as you described.

    My dads an ISTj. We generally get on ok, we dont talk a great deal but we remain amicable as much as we can. My honest answer would be no i dont think it can work. Why would you want it too? A friendship where you both have to hide your strongest points isn't really a very healthy one.

    Unfortunately i dont think theres a practical way for you to provide Si or Te or for him to provide Fe or Ni. Its like walking through a neverending minefield really carefully. Your still probably going to get blown up
    ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)

    "And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Ana´s Nin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Well if you are very old friends, it seems to me that you already reached a point of balance.
    Yes, we are balanced, and I have come to accept with a kind of "benevolent derision" his weirdness. I am not satisfied though, I don't really need for us to be best buddies but I want to shorten the distance.

    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger
    Unfortunately i dont think theres a practical way for you to provide Si or Te or for him to provide Fe or Ni.
    Oh come on there has to be a way... where does this fatalism come from? (c:

    Try to give me some examples of Si and Te behavior, should be something like "enjoying the moment and relax" for Si and I'm not really sure about Te. I should have them both quite strongly though, even if unconsciously, right?
    As for Ti, maybe I should just avoid logical arguments and objectivity and try not to be so unbending about rules. I do both with him actually, but being aware of why should make it easier.

    I am a male btw, and I am not really sure why I care... maybe I have few good friends, maybe I don't like to give up on things, maybe my little rusty heart sometimes beats (c:
    LSI

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    Quote Originally Posted by PotatoSpirit
    Oh come on there has to be a way... where does this fatalism come from? (c:
    24 years of life experience mate
    ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)

    "And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Ana´s Nin

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    There are ways which you can make the relationship flow easier i suppose. Expat suggested accepting ENFp's for what they are which is a great point. Jarno suggested remaining polite. I think thats your best bet.
    ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)

    "And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Ana´s Nin

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    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger
    There are ways which you can make the relationship flow easier i suppose. Expat suggested accepting ENFp's for what they are which is a great point. Jarno suggested remaining polite. I think thats your best bet.
    Well I think that's great advice (accepting and even being polite) for any type to relate to any other type. Although of course more necessary for some relations than others. I think one of the most helpful things about socionics is realizing that the individual isn't psycho (well, they could be I suppose) but rather it's just the functions of their personality causing them to act in a particular way. Doesn't solve the problem but can help with understanding and acceptance.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron
    Doesn't solve the problem but can help with understanding and acceptance.
    Yep. totally agree. but with an accent on "doesn't solve the problem".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron
    Doesn't solve the problem but can help with understanding and acceptance.
    Yep. totally agree. but with an accent on "doesn't solve the problem".
    Yes. It can be frustrating.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Nothing really substantial to say here ... just that I am glad another ISTj is on this forum

    Funnily enough, my ISTj best friend has a few ENFp buddies and they seem to get along fine enough, but then again, she is of the more relaxed, cheekier version of ISTj. I dunno man, all's I know is that I can't get along with ESTjs IRL no matter how hard I try... or ISTps.


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    I was hoping for a pearl of wisdom here guys (c:

    Anyways, something just occurred to me: one of my brothers is an ISTp, and I know his behavior pretty well, so I'm gonna pretend I'm him and see what happens.
    They go along very well, even ask me about each other from time to time... weird how you never hang out with your brother's friends.
    LSI

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    It's not exactly ISTj-ENFp, but I have 2 brothers with only 1.5 years age difference - one is ESTp, the other is INFj. They are totally different and they have different friends, but they have grown up together sharing a room until the younder was about 17. There was a phase when they were in the same group of friends and they spent a lot of time together. On the surface, there is no friction between them, except for maybe some brotherly rivalry. They get along very well. But when I told the INFj that they are complete opposites according to socionics criteria, he wasn't surprised one bit and it even struck him as an eureka-moment. His attitude was, "yes, that explains so much. That makes a lot of sense."
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
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    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

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    cunnilingus epilepsy inducer
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    Quote Originally Posted by PotatoSpirit
    I was hoping for a pearl of wisdom here guys (c:

    Anyways, something just occurred to me: one of my brothers is an ISTp, and I know his behavior pretty well, so I'm gonna pretend I'm him and see what happens.
    Or fuck thinking about it and just act like you feel like acting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PotatoSpirit
    I was hoping for a pearl of wisdom here guys (c:

    Anyways, something just occurred to me: one of my brothers is an ISTp, and I know his behavior pretty well, so I'm gonna pretend I'm him and see what happens.
    They go along very well, even ask me about each other from time to time... weird how you never hang out with your brother's friends.
    copying behaviour doesn't work and is even dangerous, because you are losing yourself. Rick has some articles about how socionics can make you wanna change into someone else, which always works out bad.

    I remember that two friends of mine are conflictors and they don't have severe conflicts that I know of. So there is some hope. But the closer the relationship, the better you feel the effects.

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