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Thread: What different types really expect from others

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    Default What different types really expect from others

    What types really expect from others, that makes them really frustrated, and bitch and moan:


    LII, LSI: "why aren't you more cheerful, helping make me laugh? Why are you so gloom?"
    ILE, IEE: "why aren't you taking care of those practical, daily details for me?"
    ESE, EIE: "why aren't you giving me a straight answer instead of all this useless information and bla-bla?"
    SEI, SLI: "why aren't you making this more interesting and fun?"
    SLE, SEE: "why aren't you warning me when I am about to make a mistake or go too far?"
    IEI, ILI: "why aren't you protecting me?"
    LIE, LSE: "why aren't you being straightforward as to how you feel about me?"
    ESI, EII: "why aren't you telling me what I need to know so I can reach a conclusion?"
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    I like your descriptions

    Im not that good at thinking of fun things to do though?
    Quite often my friends will say "what should we do tonight?". I generally say "um i dunno"

    I am good at making whatever we are doing "fun and interesting" though
    ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)

    "And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin

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    Thanks -- I will change it.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Default Re: What you really expect from other people

    Another side of the coin is that we can see what's more difficult for the types to do; what they feel least natural, what makes them feel as if they are failing.

    ESE, EIE: It's difficult for them NOT to act in a way that will rise up the emotions of whom they are talking to.
    SEI, SLI: It's difficult for them NOT to give advice or act in a way to take care of small daily details for you.
    LII, LSI: It's difficult for them NOT to be straight-to-the-point saying "this is so" without elaborating further.
    IEE, ILE: It's difficult for them NOT to try to find the interesting, fun, even bizarre aspect of something or a situation.
    IEI, ILI: It's difficult for them NOT to give you warnings when you're about to go overboard in their view.
    SLE, SEE: It's difficult for them NOT to act or speak in a way as to gain "space" for them and those they see as "under their wing".
    ESI, EII: It's difficult for them NOT to be straightforward as to how they feel about you.
    LIE, LSE: It's difficult for us NOT to tell you all the factual information we think you need (and it's difficult to give intentionally untruthful information, that is, to lie - LIEs and LSEs are the worst con men ever).
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Creepy-Diana

    Default Re: What you really expect from other people

    .

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    Default Re: What you really expect from other people

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    What types really expect from others, that makes them really frustrated, and bitch and moan:


    LII, LSI: "why aren't you more cheerful, helping make me laugh? Why are you so gloom?"
    I do do this...sad but true.

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    Default Re: What you really expect from other people

    When asked I am...

    Neutral to this:

    LII, LSI: "why aren't you more cheerful, helping make me laugh? Why are you so gloom?"
    SEI, SLI: "why aren't you making this more interesting and fun?"


    A little confused why someone would be asking me for this:

    IEI, ILI: "why aren't you protecting me?"
    LIE, LSE: "why aren't you being straightforward as to how you feel about me?"


    Feel bad when I cannot provide this:

    ILE, IEE: "why aren't you taking care of those practical, daily details for me?"
    ESE, EIE: "why aren't you giving me a straight answer instead of all this useless information and bla-bla?"


    Annoyed when asked for this:

    ESI, EII: "why aren't you telling me what I need to know so I can reach a conclusion?"
    SLE, SEE: "why aren't you warning me when I am about to make a mistake or go too far?"

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    Default Re: What you really expect from other people

    I like your descriptions.

    The ones I can identify with:

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    ESE, EIE: "why aren't you giving me a straight answer instead of all this useless information and bla-bla?"
    ESI, EII: "why aren't you telling me what I need to know so I can reach a conclusion?"
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    ESI, EII: It's difficult for them NOT to be straightforward as to how they feel about you.

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    Default Re: What you really expect from other people

    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    The ones I can identify with:

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    ESE, EIE: "why aren't you giving me a straight answer instead of all this useless information and bla-bla?"
    ESI, EII: "why aren't you telling me what I need to know so I can reach a conclusion?"
    Uh, these two were supposed to be sort of mutually exclusive -- perhaps I phrased the first one badly.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    What about:

    ESE, EIE: "why aren't you just tell me what you think, I want your opinion and conclusion, not all that information?"
    ESI, EII: "why aren't you telling me what I need to know so I can reach a conclusion?"
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    What about:

    ESE, EIE: "why aren't you just tell me what you think, I want your opinion and conclusion, not all that information?"
    ESI, EII: "why aren't you telling me what I need to know so I can reach a conclusion?"
    Now they look different as compared to the previous one for ESE and EIE.
    I identify with the second one.

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    This is winging it a bit. INTj's don't want a quick fix to happiness. We want a break from the Fi/Te [worriedness + problem solving] judgment axis. Confidence of individual knowledge/capacity doesn't really get you anywhere until you have someone on your side to depsychologize the capacities of things external to you. is the mindset that is wilfully blind to limitations, and correctly so, as in the alphas' view the limitations were a lie from the start. Alpha's don't believe that the course of things can be predicted, so a knowledge of limitations is trivial. The problem never lies in the obstacle, but in the unwillingness of people to make an effort to get over it. This last thing is where enthusiasm comes in.

    A very tangible manifestation of how lack of an attitude disappoints INTj's, was when I started a thread on analyzing language in the general discussion forum some months ago. Soon after I made the post an ENFp swept in and presented me with a list of problems that were going to come up in undertaking this project. No offense to any one, but that's the opposite of what I want and expect in people. I want the 'Great idea, let's do it.' response, followed by 'This, and this and that could help you.'.

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    Default Re: What you really expect from other people

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    IEI, ILI: "why aren't you protecting me?"
    From what? I don't think this is good, at least not for ILIs. How do you reason?

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    Default Re: What you really expect from other people

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    What types really expect from others, that makes them really frustrated, and bitch and moan:


    LII, LSI: "why aren't you more cheerful, helping make me laugh? Why are you so gloom?"
    Maybe not in those exact words, but pretty much. People I'm close to get so aggrivated when I ask "what's wrong?" all the time.
    All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster

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    Default Re: What you really expect from other people

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    LII, LSI: It's difficult for them NOT to be straight-to-the-point saying "this is so" without elaborating further.
    this seems almost the antithesis of LIIs. LSIs it seems to fit better.

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    Default Re: What you really expect from other people

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    LIE, LSE: "why aren't you being straightforward as to how you feel about me?"
    ESI, EII: "why aren't you telling me what I need to know so I can reach a conclusion?"
    I identify with both of these.
    me too. I identify more with the EII one though.

    EDIT: Oops I thought it was the LII one. I agree with the LIE one too, but I meant to say that I agree more with the EII one more than the LII one, even after the revision. I think it still needs to be reworded.

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    Default Re: What you really expect from other people

    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    LII, LSI: It's difficult for them NOT to be straight-to-the-point saying "this is so" without elaborating further.
    this seems almost the antithesis of LIIs. LSIs it seems to fit better.
    Agreed. INTjs (as well as ISTjs) give justification with ease, evidence (i.e. specific concrete examples) with difficulty.

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    Expat, I don't know how you think these things up, but they're great. I really like these concise summaries.
    Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)

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    I think that, at least subconsciously, the ILI one fits me. When I'm in a social situation involving strangers (e.g. at a bar) I usually feel safer if I'm with someone with strong Se, especially if there's trouble about. Otherwise I become apprehensive and start to get angry as a defence mechanism (such that, if I were attacked or whatever, I'd already be on guard...if you see what I mean). Saying that though, if I've been in a social situation with an INFp, and there's nobody else with us, I tend to take on the protector role, although I don't feel safe doing it. I take the role more out of a desire to keep my friend safe, rather than wanting to exercise my Se. I'd still be more likely to run away than fight, given the chance.
    ILI (Indescribable Lovemaking Inc.)
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    Default Re: What you really expect from other people

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    ESE, EIE: "why aren't you giving me a straight answer instead of all this useless information and bla-bla?"
    This is what I usually end up asking in most situations involving shady people, so in most situations.

    LIE, LSE: "why aren't you being straightforward as to how you feel about me?"
    This is also something that I relate to.

    Also, what I expect from "people" like friends is somewhat different from what I expect from "people" as romantic partners.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    ESE, EIE: "why aren't you just tell me what you think, I want your opinion and conclusion, not all that information?"
    Yes, that sounds much closer to my experiences with my ESFj. Whenever it comes to decision-making time or something like that, it seems she's always looking for somebody with a firm opinion. It doesn't seem to matter too much to her how that opinion was formed (whereas, in contrast, that sort of thing interests me), so long as she has something definite to go for, a set direction to go in. I'm not always the best being decisive about what's supposed to happen or telling people what's up, but when I do manage to stumble out something coherent about what I want, it's amazing sometimes to see what gets done. I should add that this doesn't mean she doesn't have opinions of her own, and good ones at that, just that she likes external direction, somebody else to follow/help/do something for. It seems to make her happy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    ESI, EII: "why aren't you telling me what I need to know so I can reach a conclusion?"
    Yeah, sometimes I get frustrated with people when they don't do that – give me the info I need. In fact, that's something I think I've been lacking in recently. Or, rather, feeling the lack. I often wish I had someone around to explain everything to me. I don't always need it, but it would be nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    ESI, EII: It's difficult for them NOT to be straightforward as to how they feel about you.
    I'm not sure about this one, but then again I'm not looking at myself from an outside perspective. Although... it would fit with being called "an open book," having a "very expressive face," and told "that look will get you in trouble someday" when I thought I was containing my skepticism/disdain quite well. I generally don't make lots of attempts to actively express my feelings toward people, but I guess maybe I don't have to...

    On the other hand, it regularly happens that people completely misinterpret what I'm projecting at the moment. For example, occasionally someone will express a sense of being judged or weighed by me, from the expression on my face when I look in their direction. With few exceptions, that's not even close to what I'm thinking or feeling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    IEI, ILI: "why aren't you protecting me?"
    LIE, LSE: "why aren't you being straightforward as to how you feel about me?"
    ILE, IEE: "why aren't you taking care of those practical, daily details for me?"
    I also identify to some extent with these, too. (Note: when I think of "protecting" it's more from what could happen than what is happening, and not so much from people as from events. It's slightly related to the "give me pertinent info" and the "take care of the practical stuff." Which I think makes my inner interpretation of that phrase a little different from the original meaning.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    LIE, LSE: It's difficult for us NOT to tell you all the factual information we think you need (and it's difficult to give intentionally untruthful information, that is, to lie - LIEs and LSEs are the worst con men ever).
    I really, really appreciate the honesty aspect. I hate having to second-guess people.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
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    ESE, EIE: "why aren't you giving me a straight answer instead of all this useless information and bla-bla?"
    I identify with this very much. And I am baffled by this one

    IEI, ILI: "why aren't you protecting me?"
    because if there is anything I can't stand it's being "taken care of" like that. I need my independence above all. I think it's more like "Why aren't you pushing my agenda further?".

    LIE, LSE: It's difficult for us NOT to tell you all the factual information we think you need
    I'd say this one is ESE and LSE, at least has been in my experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca
    ESE, EIE: "why aren't you giving me a straight answer instead of all this useless information and bla-bla?"
    I identify with this very much. And I am baffled by this one

    IEI, ILI: "why aren't you protecting me?"
    because if there is anything I can't stand it's being "taken care of" like that. I need my independence above all.
    I couldn't have said it better myself. That's my reaction too.

    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca
    I think it's more like "Why aren't you pushing my agenda further?".
    Maybe. I'm not sure.

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    Perhaps this is where there's a visible desire for Se and rejection for Si? There was a situation at work recently, I was asking one of the senior members for help (I can't decide what her type is, although I'm thinking Si>Se) and she came over and, rather than just telling me what I needed to do (which was what I was asking for), she started to actually do the task for me (I can't remember exactly what it was now, I'll edit it in if it comes to me. I'm pretty sure it was something simple). This made me feel uncomfortable since it was violating my independence. I ended up saying something to the extent of "I can do this myself you know", so she got the hint then.

    Any other INXps relate to this? I'm not sure if I've explained myself properly here, but I'm trying to get across that "protecting", as Expat had put it, wouldn't be the same as Si caregiving, assuming I'm understanding this correctly.
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    [quote]Quote:
    IEI, ILI: "why aren't you protecting me?"
    quote]

    this is not wrong but not entirely right, either. i expect others to let me do my own thing but when i really need help, i would appreciate it if someone can come to my rescue without my asking and understands that this is an unusual occasion.

    i don't think it's protection IEI and ILI want most often, it's aspirations from very driven people? not just anyone of course, but someone who you can relate to and share similar goals, etc. this is what appeals to me most in a person.

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    Here is what I expect: I want to be reassured that the path I have taken/I will take is correct and I'm not wasting energy for nothing
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    I expect people to be very honest and loyal... leaving no room for doubt about my worth to them. This must be done without the use of gushy, emotionally manipulative tactics.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    I expect people to be very honest and loyal...
    I hope everybody expects this.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    i expect little from others. I don't care about being let down, or people being disloyal. It's not that this is always happening to me and I've learned to deal with it. But it has happened and I shrugged. I expect that stuff. I am a really independent person and get along fine without others.

    As for the descriptions: They sound okay, but are too broad.
    asd

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    I expect people to be very honest and loyal...
    I hope everybody expects this.
    Yes, but different people to different degrees. For example, when deciding if I'm interested in someone, honesty, loyalty, and faithfulness are weighed more heavily than all of the other factors combined... I'd go as far as to say 90% (though other areas of compatibility are very important as well).

    Anyways, the main point was "leaving no room for doubt about my worth to them"... cause like you said, no one wants to be lied to or cheated on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca
    I think it's more like "Why aren't you pushing my agenda further?".
    Maybe. I'm not sure.
    Well not always, but I get super annoyed by people that "get in my way", that is, behave like obstacles in my path. I want things to run smoothly at the pace I determine. To use expat's Ni analogy, I want my boat to respond perfectly to my commands. (This puts me at ease, the mere ability to be in perfect control of my ship)

    Quote Originally Posted by BLauritson
    Perhaps this is where there's a visible desire for Se and rejection for Si? There was a situation at work recently, I was asking one of the senior members for help (I can't decide what her type is, although I'm thinking Si>Se) and she came over and, rather than just telling me what I needed to do (which was what I was asking for), she started to actually do the task for me (I can't remember exactly what it was now, I'll edit it in if it comes to me. I'm pretty sure it was something simple). This made me feel uncomfortable since it was violating my independence. I ended up saying something to the extent of "I can do this myself you know", so she got the hint then.

    Any other INXps relate to this?
    I identify with that, but I exploit it when I can (To have other people do my work for me).

    I'm not sure if I've explained myself properly here, but I'm trying to get across that "protecting", as Expat had put it, wouldn't be the same as Si caregiving, assuming I'm understanding this correctly.
    I think I get what you are saying, the concept must be viewed in terms of context.

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    Default Re: What you really expect from other people

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    LII, LSI: It's difficult for them NOT to be straight-to-the-point saying "this is so" without elaborating further.
    LSI's (unhealthy ones at least) love to argue and elaborate on what someone did wrong
    LIIs may enjoy elaborating on their field of interest.


    In a very general, public speaking, casual acquaintance conversation though, what you said is probably reasonable enough
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    i don't identify with ili at all

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    My only problem is that I don't expect other people in general to take care of practical daily details for me, only a very very few specific people whom I know don't mind. And only those details they don't mind taking care of. Really just my husband (ISTp) and my sister (INFj).
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by .thursday
    i don't identify with ili at all
    What if you change this
    IEI, ILI: "why aren't you protecting me?"

    To e.g.
    "Why aren't you helping me tackle my insecurities/doubts?"
    or
    "Why are you creating more insecurity/doubt in me?"

    or something. Meaning I can't see ILIs wanting active "protection" but I can see how a SEE who is straightforward, positive and simplifies complex things can make ILI get rid of the "voice of doubts" or "insecurities" haunting them. So this would suggest ILI dislikes people who increase their doubts, blurs things or causes them to feel more insecure them. And the opposite they like. This can be seen as a form of protection.

    When ILI goes: "Could this solution work...nah it probably doesn't...I don't have this and that skill which is probably required and I don't want to interact with this and that person which would likely be required and it would take a lot of time to achieve high enough skill level to bring about optimal solution and..."

    a Non-SEE answer (e.g. ESFj, ENFj) might be: "Your amount of insecurity and negative attitude makes me puke. You are such a loser. You will never do anything with that attitude". This would discourage ILI even more who would go even more negative like "Well...do I really care about your opinion anyways? Or anyone else's for that matter...people just suck".

    a SEE answer might be: "Not this bullshit again . You are one of the most intelligent and talented people I know. Just do it now damned and stop analyzing! You have done so many similar tasks before and it wasn't even hard for you! Once you get back we will have some badass sex Now go already!". Then the ILI would be like "ok ok! I actually already know how to do it..." then the SEE goes "Will you go and do it already instead of explaining the solution to me " and the ILI goes "yeah yeah! going!"

    Lol. I don't know how accurate this is. My imagination got a little carried away there. But it might be close to what was meant with the original post. Or not.

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    I want someone who won't further any of my weaknesses, but perhaps 'take care of me', and to remind me that I am human. I have to push myself beyond to be content. Someone who will not be bothered with my devotion to "Ti", so to say.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    I think that in pondering the idea behind this thread, we should keep in mind that the 5th function correlates with the 3rd and the 6th with the 4th. The reason we look for our 5th and 6th functions in others is because it protects the functions in our super ego block.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    Default Re: What you really expect from other people

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    ESI, EII: "why aren't you telling me what I need to know so I can reach a conclusion?"
    I just had a discussion with an EII: confirmed
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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