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Thread: Laziness

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    machintruc's Avatar
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    Default Laziness

    I think Laziness is probably correlated to being an introtim. I'm a pretty strong introtim and I'm lazy.

    Reasoning in means, enneatypes 4-5-9 ("withdrawn group") are the least motivated. But in this enneatype group only 10-20% are extrotims. in socioniko.net I read that initiative is correlated with being an extrotim. If 459 is correlated to being an introtim and tending to lack initiative is correlated to being an introtim, then 459 + lack of initiative is probably correlated to laziness.

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    Default Re: Laziness

    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc
    Reasoning in means, enneatypes 4-5-9 ("withdrawn group") are the least motivated.
    Probably correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc
    But in this enneatype group only 10-20% are extrotims.
    What is the evidence for that? I suspect that somewhere around 0% of the correctly typed persons in that enneatype group are extrotims (extraverts).

    in socioniko.net I read that initiative is correlated with being an extrotim. If 459 is correlated to being an introtim and tending to lack initiative is correlated to being an introtim, then 459 + lack of initiative is probably correlated to laziness.
    Probably more correct than not.

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    Default Re: Laziness

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc
    But in this enneatype group only 10-20% are extrotims.
    What is the evidence for that? I suspect that somewhere around 0% of the correctly typed persons in that enneatype group are extrotims (extraverts).
    you're confusing correlations with "overlapping zones" ; for example, I've known people who were (if I typed them correctly) :

    a school supervisor : 5-ENTp
    another : 8-ISTj
    a classmate : cp6-ENTj
    another : 8-ISTp
    a friend in my catholic youth association : 2-ISTj
    another : 9-INTp
    another : 6-ENFj
    another : 3-ENFp
    my driving teacher : 1-ESTj
    an aunt : 8-ENFp
    a former coworker of my mother : 7-ENFj
    a former friend of my father : 5-ENTj

    these are not necessarily infrequent combinations, but they are not prototypical.

    and, according to Pareto's Law, we can say that 20% of the possible 144 combinations are shared by 80% of people.

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    Default Re: Laziness

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    What is the evidence for that? I suspect that somewhere around 0% of the correctly typed persons in that enneatype group are extrotims (extraverts).
    You and your black and white thinking. 9s can be extraverts.

    However...

    a jewish former friend of my father : 5-ENTj
    wrong.
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    Default Re: Laziness

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    However...

    a jewish former friend of my father : 5-ENTj
    wrong.
    yet... right !

    let's do another demonstration lol

    E = energy-spending
    I = energy-saving

    459 = energy-poor
    378 = energy-rich

    think of it as it was money.

    a rich person is likely to spend money, and a poor person is likely to save it. right ?

    but you can be rich and saving money, and poor and spending money. that's not impossible.

    but, be poor and spending is less viable than be rich and saving. that explains why 459 extroverts are probably less frequent than 378 introverts. a 459 extrovert is subject to "energy-bankruptcy"...

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    i'm not saying that 459 cannot be E. I'm saying that 5s cannot be E due to the definition of type 5.


    Also your analogy is self contradictory, you say E=energy spending then you say E=higher level of energy which isn't necessarily true; if E=energy spending and the types you list are energy conserving then they cannot be E of course. I do not think this is true but your definition implies it
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    i'm not saying that 459 cannot be E. I'm saying that 5s cannot be E due to the definition of type 5.
    Wagele herself said that an extrovert 5 is possible.

    http://www.9types.com/descr/5/baron2.html

    Social Fives: "Recognition and Hierarchy"

    * I prefer to work in a flexible, unstructured way and to set my own goals.
    * I like either to be self-employed or to have a safe nook in the hierarchy of a university or company where I can be relatively autonomous.
    * Rules and regulations often get in my way.
    * When I do high-quality work, I like praise from people who matter to me, but I don't usually ask for it.
    * Either I attend meetings in order to pick up knowledge and meet interesting people, or I avoid groups and organizations altogether.
    * As an extrovert, I like overt attention for my ideas and contributions, As an introvert, I am usually satisfied by having my work known and my name respected but am embarrassed by showy accolades.
    * I love to dig out information and find out what the experts in my field, and in other fields, have to say.

    Social Fives usually appear more extroverted than other Fives.

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    This is bullshit you're taking out context only one line. Take the whole concept of type 5, it is completely unappliable to extraverts. If you find one line of one author that supports that, it's not a correct way of arguing eheh. If you want a more complete argument...I'll give it, but it'd be better if you realized your own foolishness in thinking this.
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    a school supervisor : 5-ENTp
    another : 8-ISTj
    a female classmate : cp6-ENTj
    another : 8-ISTp
    a friend in my catholic youth association : 2-ISTj
    another : 9-INTp
    another : 6-ENFj
    another : 3-ENFp
    my driving teacher : 1-ESTj
    an aunt : 8-ENFp
    a former coworker of my mother : 7-ENFj
    a jewish former friend of my father : 5-ENTj
    If you do not mind me asking something which is a bit unrelated, but I am curious as to why you added some of these extra qualifiers for these people. Why are some simply labeled "another" while another exists as a "female classmate" and not simply as a "classmate"? What does the extra categorical qualifier of female add to the type sampling? Why differentiate between a "female classmate" and a gender-neutral "friend in my catholic youth association"? The most questionable one was the "jewish former friend of [your] father." Why did you feel it necessary to include the fact that this former friend was Jewish? Wouldn't have "a former friend of my father" sufficed?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    it'd be better if you realized your own foolishness in thinking this.
    I know extrotim Fives are either very infrequent or inexistent. But I'm trying to be objective. I never said I was right. Yes, I have a tendency to be obstinate (I-T-), and to appear as a know-it-all who always wants to be right. I recognise it.

    But as a type, I really acknowledge the concept of correlations, not confusing them with overlappings zones (i.e. "100%" correlations), even very strong (95+%) correlations. But I'm taking what you said seriously, because I want to know the Truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    If you do not mind me asking something which is a bit unrelated, but I am curious as to why you added some of these extra qualifiers for these people. Why are some simply labeled "another" while another exists as a "female classmate" and not simply as a "classmate"? What does the extra categorical qualifier of female add to the type sampling? Why differentiate between a "female classmate" and a gender-neutral "friend in my catholic youth association"? The most questionable one was the "jewish former friend of [your] father." Why did you feel it necessary to include the fact that this former friend was Jewish? Wouldn't have "a former friend of my father" sufficed?
    you're right. sorry, I didn't mind. I edited this post.

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    I agree with some of your correlations. It's just type 5 that I disagree with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    a school supervisor : 5-ENTp
    another : 8-ISTj
    a female classmate : cp6-ENTj
    another : 8-ISTp
    a friend in my catholic youth association : 2-ISTj
    another : 9-INTp
    another : 6-ENFj
    another : 3-ENFp
    my driving teacher : 1-ESTj
    an aunt : 8-ENFp
    a former coworker of my mother : 7-ENFj
    a jewish former friend of my father : 5-ENTj
    If you do not mind me asking something which is a bit unrelated, but I am curious as to why you added some of these extra qualifiers for these people. Why are some simply labeled "another" while another exists as a "female classmate" and not simply as a "classmate"? What does the extra categorical qualifier of female add to the type sampling? Why differentiate between a "female classmate" and a gender-neutral "friend in my catholic youth association"? The most questionable one was the "jewish former friend of [your] father." Why did you feel it necessary to include the fact that this former friend was Jewish? Wouldn't have "a former friend of my father" sufficed?
    They might be transexuals; moreover, jewish people are more likely to steal your money and eat your children. Those qualifiers are then needed to protect you from eventual problems in the mentioned areas.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    They might be transexuals; moreover, jewish people are more likely to steal your money and eat your children. Those qualifiers are then needed to protect you from eventual problems in the mentioned areas.
    I didn't say that. I'm a 5 and I'm not clever with money. The fives' greed is not associated with money, but with initiative. That's why they are almost all introverts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    They might be transexuals; moreover, jewish people are more likely to steal your money and eat your children. Those qualifiers are then needed to protect you from eventual problems in the mentioned areas.
    I didn't say that. I'm a 5 and I'm not clever with money. The fives' greed is not associated with money, but with initiative. That's why they are almost all introverts.
    Machin...I was joking :wink:
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Machin...I was joking :wink:


    And I've done a mistake and edited that post. I'll take full responsibility for that. Everyone can make mistakes.

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    Default Re: Laziness

    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc
    I think Laziness is probably correlated to being an introtim. I'm a pretty strong introtim and I'm lazy.

    Reasoning in means, enneatypes 4-5-9 ("withdrawn group") are the least motivated.
    The matter is finding something to be motivated about (see "the quest", and related topics)

    Ultimately every person is responsible for dealing with their own laziness, of course.

    As of late I am less and less lazy, and when I am, there is a clear sense of regression.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    hey...it doesn't really matter we're just discussing!
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    Default Re: Laziness

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    You and your black and white thinking. 9s can be extraverts.
    an example of extrotim 9 : John Carter in ER.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Also your analogy is self contradictory, you say E=energy spending then you say E=higher level of energy which isn't necessarily true; if E=energy spending and the types you list are energy conserving then they cannot be E of course. I do not think this is true but your definition implies it
    Actually, 378 are mainly extroverts, except 8sp which nearly 60% are I-types. If you're rich, you're likely to be spending, rather than saving. but, mainly Eights are somewhat at ease to save energy to use it for controlling purposes. but for Three or a Seven it can be very difficult, because of their needs (i.e. to be admired and to be happy), they are likely to need to spend energy. An approximation is that E-types are 90-95% in Sevens, 85-90% in Threes, and 60-65% in Eights.

    Actually then, 459 are mainly introverts ; I'm not sure if there is an exception for 4so and/or 9so, and it seems there are an I-type-rate approximation of 90-95% in Fives, and 80-85% in Nines, and 75-80% in Fours.

    Energy Level is really correlated to Energy Spending Rate ; but only correlated.

    It seems to be a 75-85% correlation.

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