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Thread: aversion to wastefulness?

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    reyn_til_runa's Avatar
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    Default aversion to wastefulness?

    It's become increasingly apparent that I have little tolerance for wasteful people. I have always been a hoarder, but have actually been known to call people "stupid" for throwing away "perfectly good" things. I sort of feel some sense of duty to take the misfits home and make them useful.

    There was a large, partially broken mirror outside in the snow around my workplace and I kept waiting to see if it belonged to anyone. After several days, I asked the neighbor about it and he said, "Take it if you want it!" I cannot tell you the exact reason I wanted it, but I thought I might one day use it for a project. These things happen to me all the time. I bubble over with excitement at the idea of making something from nothing.

    My mom says I did it as kid too. Apparently, I often boxed up my leftover food to be sent to 3rd world countries. When my mom later told me that she had repeatedly thrown my boxes of food away, I yelled at her, not saying, "the people will starve," but instead in disbelief that she had the nerve to waste it. I would come back with, "I could have eaten it or we could have given it to the neighbors!" (or something similar). Basically, the general feeling, both then and now, tends to be: "How dare you consider it useless without consulting me first."

    In the immaterial realm, I cannot stand the thought of wasting either. What is this drive to use, or at least explore, every possibility? I'm thinking it's related to Ne in the immaterial realm, but what about in the material? It also seems as if I am satisfied as long as I have everything at MY disposal. If I can sort through things and decide they are useless, I am generally fine.
    whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.

    Jerry, The Zoo Story by Edward Albee

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    that sounds kind of like to me.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    that sounds kind of like to me.
    How so?
    whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.

    Jerry, The Zoo Story by Edward Albee

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    It is just a habit of thinking, that's all.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

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    Wastefulness, practicality, etc. is pretty Te-ish I think.
    Socionics function: black logic - profit - business logic
    external activity of object - actions, events (what, how, where), facts, activity or work, algorithms, procedures, logic of objects’ measurable outward behavior
    Positive(short range):
    Advantage, benefit, profitability, technology, the facts, purchases, accumulation, the purchase, savings, putting in order, a practicality;
    Negative (long range):
    Uselessness, unprofitableness, use, application, deterioration, charges, expenditure, risk, experiment, sale, trade, actions in conditions of chaos, an ingenuity.
    Assuming you're ILE, that would be your 8th function.

    Function of Concrete Art
    strong
    producing

    Your function of concrete art is a function which automatically creates for yourself and helps others with. You typically are not even aware of this function as a skill.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    Wastefulness, practicality, etc. is pretty Te-ish I think.
    Yes, but for her it's irrational. I think it's like OCD or something like that.

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    Perhaps it's related to Te, but I wouldn't say it's a sign of Te in one's ego block. Or that behaving that way is valuing Te. Sounds like it's related to Ni in a similar manner to me, too (perhaps it's more Ni related than Te related?). It almost sounds like super ego Te and/or Ni.

    If you think about it from the perspective of time and effort (genuine efficiency as opposed to immediate cost efficiency... after all, time is money), you were being wasteful by hauling that mirror into your house and letting it sit around until some undetermined point in the future in which you might use it. Not to mention the mental energy that was put into thinking about the fact that you want it, and the mental effort you'll have to put into thinking about what you could do with it until you actually get around to whatever project you may use it on. You may even invent a project just for the mirror. There's a good chance you'll end up having to haul it out of there someday, too, which will take time and physical (and mental) effort as well. You may put it off for years before you get around to doing something with it or getting rid of it. Think of all the time you'll spend concerning yourself with it! Sounds like more effort than it's worth.

    Now, if you saw the mirror and thought, "I know exactly what I could use that for, and hauling it out of the snow and into my home would not take much effort compared to the value it will create. If my time is worth $20/hour and a mirror like that would cost me $200 including delivery, then this mirror would be a good value if it took less than 10 hours to deal with as opposed to having a new mirror delivered. Actually, make it 2 hours since this whole thing is going to be a pain in the ass and the resale value of the broken mirror is much less than that of a new mirror..." that would be more indicative of Te and/or Ni in the ego block. (Or would that just be Ni? )

    disclaimer: I'm not always sure where to draw the line between Ni and Te. Ugh time to start a thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    Wastefulness, practicality, etc. is pretty Te-ish I think.
    Yes, but for her it's irrational. I think it's like OCD or something like that.
    Irrational in what way?
    whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.

    Jerry, The Zoo Story by Edward Albee

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    If you think about it from the perspective of time and effort (genuine efficiency as opposed to immediate cost efficiency... after all, time is money), you were being wasteful by hauling that mirror into your house and letting it sit around until some undetermined point in the future in which you might use it. Not to mention the mental energy that was put into thinking about the fact that you want it, and the mental effort you'll have to put into thinking about what you could do with it until you actually get around to whatever project you may use it on. You may even invent a project just for the mirror. There's a good chance you'll end up having to haul it out of there someday, too, which will take time and physical (and mental) effort as well. You may put it off for years before you get around to doing something with it or getting rid of it. Think of all the time you'll spend concerning yourself with it! Sounds like more effort than it's worth.
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    No, it doesn't sound like ego-block Te to me either because he'd be more aware of why he was doing it. Or she. But I still think it's Te.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    No, it doesn't sound like ego-block Te to me either because he'd be more aware of why he was doing it. Or she. But I still think it's Te.
    See, I am vaguely aware of why I do it, not as in knowing a specific purpose for everything I save, but in seeing potential in objects. With the mirror, recognizing the potential was sort of brought on by seeing this very plain, yet large, cracked mirror stuck in the snow for days. It was an interesting contrast, plus I like playing with reflection. If I had seen it on the side of the road surrounded by trash cans or on a bedroom wall, I might not have wanted to take it. It's basically just a momentary vision of what something could look like in another context, so seeing the mirror in an already unusual context made it seem immediately desirable.
    whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.

    Jerry, The Zoo Story by Edward Albee

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    Ne?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    If you think about it from the perspective of time and effort (genuine efficiency as opposed to immediate cost efficiency... after all, time is money), you were being wasteful by hauling that mirror into your house and letting it sit around until some undetermined point in the future in which you might use it. Not to mention the mental energy that was put into thinking about the fact that you want it, and the mental effort you'll have to put into thinking about what you could do with it until you actually get around to whatever project you may use it on. You may even invent a project just for the mirror. There's a good chance you'll end up having to haul it out of there someday, too, which will take time and physical (and mental) effort as well. You may put it off for years before you get around to doing something with it or getting rid of it. Think of all the time you'll spend concerning yourself with it! Sounds like more effort than it's worth.

    Now, if you saw the mirror and thought, "I know exactly what I could use that for, and hauling it out of the snow and into my home would not take much effort compared to the value it will create. If my time is worth $20/hour and a mirror like that would cost me $200 including delivery, then this mirror would be a good value if it took less than 10 hours to deal with as opposed to having a new mirror delivered. Actually, make it 2 hours since this whole thing is going to be a pain in the ass and the resale value of the broken mirror is much less than that of a new mirror..." that would be more indicative of Te and/or Ni in the ego block. (Or would that just be Ni? )

    disclaimer: I'm not always sure where to draw the line between Ni and Te. Ugh time to start a thread.
    I see what you're saying, but for me, the decision to want or not want to save something is not painstaking at all. So, although I see your point about going through all the logistics to determine worth, I would probably lose the desire for whatever it was by the time I finished. The outcome: If I hauled the mirror to my apartment, I'd play with it for awhile. Imagine it serving various functions. Maybe decide to break it and build something. If nothing else, I could make it into a tabletop. Then, once the fun is drained out of the mirror and it's uses, I will have no problem hauling it back outside or whatever. There is no thought in my mind that the time taken to carry it inside or out is a waste. Now if I just set it aside and never even noticed it again, then I might consider my efforts a waste (and certainly the space it takes would be a waste).
    whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.

    Jerry, The Zoo Story by Edward Albee

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    Strong and a dash of

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    It's interesting that some people would think about the cost in time, some in monetary value, some in effort, and some in space.

    It does seem that this is mostly a Ne thing for you, as if you don't want someone else to determine that there are no other possibilities for something when you haven't had a chance to consider whether or not there are or what those possibilities might be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    Wastefulness, practicality, etc. is pretty Te-ish I think.
    bullshit! entjs are some of the most wasteful people around. i think frugality would be an is/it thing generally

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    The ENTjs I know aren't wasteful.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


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    Yes, but often those with in their primary main functions are reluctant to discard things not from any true stance of practicality, but one of hording for future potential. Practicality merely forms the sort of irrational rationalization for the hording of things which they deem may be either useful at a later date or stretching the usefulness out of a given thing for as long as they can well beyond the reason of practicality.

    I can support reyn_til_runa's claim with my own experiences with such matters. My dorm room coffee maker broke down last year and instead of immediately buying a new coffee maker (which would be the practical thing to do in such occasions), I instead found potentially new ways to make coffee with the broken coffee make I had for that entire last semester. It is because the object does not exist merely as the object with a given function but the essence and potential of the object including its many parts and pieces. When I save snack food, I am not doing it to be efficient with my spending habits, I am doing it because that snack food exists as that which will save me from potential starvation or contribute to some potential delight down the road. In fact I have been criticized by close ENTjs, ENFjs, and INTps I know for not being practical or efficient with resources I have available to me.
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    if anything EN types are even more wasteful than others because they will just "find opportunity elsewhere" if it comes to that. entjs have this really shitty many times by which they are enticed to extravagant wastefulness. they wipe their asses with hundred $ bills so to speak just to show others that they can or become horrible gluttons and refuse to deny themselves any excess. just as they often act as templars of decency and virtue all too often they are a sort of twisted exemplification of all the seven deadly sins rolled into one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    The ENTjs I know aren't wasteful.
    I believe it depends on the environment they live in. The more well-to-do ENTjs I have known are rather concerned about brands, buying the latest technological products, constantly buying new clothes, impressing people with the things they buy and so on. On the other hand, the ENTjs I have known who used to be poor during childhood are more likely to be less concerned with their appearance and don't mind wearing the same clothes all the time, prefer not to buy the latest electronic goods, try not to buy new things if they can find a replacement at home and so on.

    I actually feel that those with as a first function are the most frugal among all the other types. INTj >ISTj. My INTj dad drives me crazy. He has a lot of books and notes which I think are useless lying around the house. We tried persuading him to throw them away, but he believed that he might need them someday and throwing them away are like throwing all the information he has accumulated all these years. He tried to pass some of the books to me which he felt will be useful for my current college course, but I don't see the need to waste my time and energy reading beyond the required college syllabus.

    On the other hand, the ISTjs I have known are willing to spend on their friends to make them happy and comfortable, but they scrimp and save for themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    No, it doesn't sound like ego-block Te to me either because he'd be more aware of why he was doing it. Or she. But I still think it's Te.
    See, I am vaguely aware of why I do it, not as in knowing a specific purpose for everything I save, but in seeing potential in objects. With the mirror, recognizing the potential was sort of brought on by seeing this very plain, yet large, cracked mirror stuck in the snow for days. It was an interesting contrast, plus I like playing with reflection. If I had seen it on the side of the road surrounded by trash cans or on a bedroom wall, I might not have wanted to take it. It's basically just a momentary vision of what something could look like in another context, so seeing the mirror in an already unusual context made it seem immediately desirable.
    That sounds consistent with Ne.

    I get really pissed when people throw out my stuff--partly because I have the idea that I'll actually use it in the future, which is usually ridiculous. By contrast, Si types are good at knowing what is cruft in the physical arena and what is not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    I actually feel that those with as a first function are the most frugal among all the other types. INTj >ISTj. My INTj dad drives me crazy. He has a lot of books and notes which I think are useless lying around the house. We tried persuading him to throw them away, but he believed that he might need them someday and throwing them away are like throwing all the information he has accumulated all these years. He tried to pass some of the books to me which he felt will be useful for my current college course, but I don't see the need to waste my time and energy reading beyond the required college syllabus.
    lol @ the simultaneous post!

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    I'm not wasteful. I think it has to do with having Si as a quadra value. Se as a quadra value means you have strong desires to consume. And most of the times these desires fizzle once met. And once something is consumed by Se types it is usually discarded.
    asd

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    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    The ENTjs I know aren't wasteful.
    I believe it depends on the environment they live in. The more well-to-do ENTjs I have known are rather concerned about brands, buying the latest technological products, constantly buying new clothes, impressing people with the things they buy and so on. On the other hand, the ENTjs I have known who used to be poor during childhood are more likely to be less concerned with their appearance and don't mind wearing the same clothes all the time, prefer not to buy the latest electronic goods, try not to buy new things if they can find a replacement at home and so on.
    I think if we substitute "all types" to "ENTj", your reasoning is perfect. If I ever were to be well to do and see that my son buys brand stuff clothes, i'll cut his penis.

    I'm not wasteful. I think it has to do with having Si as a quadra value. Se as a quadra value means you have strong desires to consume. And most of the times these desires fizzle once met. And once something is consumed by Se types it is usually discarded.
    Heath, the definition of "consumable" (probably not the right word) implies that the good is to be discarded once utilized. Otherwise the good is "durable".
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa
    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    Wastefulness, practicality, etc. is pretty Te-ish I think.
    Yes, but for her it's irrational. I think it's like OCD or something like that.
    Irrational in what way?
    The way you describe it, it sounds like an instinct.

    In any case, I do the same sometimes, I actually had a rock in my jacket for quite some time now until they threw it away. And when I was a kid the draws in my table were full with all kinds of rubbish I though might be useful someday. Some of it even was.

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