Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 136

Thread: ENTj-ISFj duality: examples of LIE-ESI couples

  1. #1
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default ENTj-ISFj duality: examples of LIE-ESI couples

    Here's a nice example of non-romantic, slowly developing duality at a place of work.

    There is this 50-something ISFj woman working as an administrative clerk where I work, in the same open-floor space. When I first started working there, I didn't pay much attention to her, to be honest: she is very quiet, she's not attractive, and she seemed a bit dull and boring. She also seemed to be too bureaucratic for my taste.

    Yet, she never bothered me with that, on the contrary. I am a sort of technical consultant/project manager/whatever. I am in charge of making technical evaluations and answering questions, and I am also supposed to give my assent to technical projects by answering questions in some very boring software. The ISFj woman keeps reminding me of the projects still to be done: "don't forget that one" or "this one should be filled up by tomorrow". Sometimes, I know that I haven't done them yet because some info is still missing, or a decision has to be made, and I say, "no, those can wait" or "this one hasn't been decided yet". We never seem to annoy each other: the ones she reminds me of are usually indeed important, and she is reassured when I tell her that some aren't important. I never think she's nagging me, unlike the ISTp guy, who once called me and said "hey, I need this information from you, because the 'old woman' is kicking my ass" since he wasn't moving to get something going.

    We very seldom talk about non-work issues, but when she seems depressed I seem to manage to always say the right thing to get her happier (something I suck on with most people). The same people who annoy me seem to annoy her as well. I never have anything to do with her out of work, but at work we seem to complement each other and never seem to get into misunderstandings.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  2. #2
    Jarno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Netherlands
    TIM
    ILI-Te
    Posts
    5,375
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    great to see duality work like this.

    too bad not everyone who is in a duality situation know's how to appreciate this slightly rare event. like the person in this story also doesn't.

  3. #3
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    like the person in this story also doesn't.
    Who said I don't appreciate it? As for her, I'm not sure what she thinks but I suppose she does appreciate the easy way we work together.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  4. #4
    Jarno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Netherlands
    TIM
    ILI-Te
    Posts
    5,375
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    oke, well the absence of the information made me think that.

    Good to hear i'm wrong

  5. #5
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    oke, well the absence of the information made me think that.
    I thought that the appreciation was clear from the way I wrote it, and from the very fact that I wrote it.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  6. #6
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,826
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    bomb


    Anyway, I understand the nature of the post. Sounds very Gamma.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  7. #7
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III
    bomb


    Anyway, I understand the nature of the post. Sounds very Gamma.
    Yeah. And that makes one think, doesn't it?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  8. #8
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,624
    Mentioned
    155 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    A question: when I work with ISFjs they do the same with me, but I feel like it is a denial of trust towards me. I feel like they are saying "I know you won't do it so I have to remind you". How doesn't it feel like this to you? I admit that my defensivness could be because effectively if they didn't remind me, I might forget about the work.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  9. #9
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    A question: when I work with ISFjs they do the same with me, but I feel like it is a denial of trust towards me. I feel like they are saying "I know you won't do it so I have to remind you". How doesn't it feel like this to you?
    Because she manages to only remind me of things that I also agree that should be done right now, only I'm not doing it . I don't see it as a denial of trust because, as I said, if I point out, "yes I know, but I really can't do it now because something hasn't been decided yet", she accepts it immediately. And she know that if she did say, "yes but this bit here does need to be done now, and it can be done", I will say "ah ok, that bit I can do".

    I think it goes like this:

    She looks at me and thinks, "I know he wants to do it, but he's now distracted, he needs reminding"
    I look at her and think, "She's worried about the job being done on time, she needs reassuring that what can be done is being done".

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    I admit that my defensivness could be because effectively if they didn't remind me, I might forget about the work.
    I would only get defensive if she'd say, "you don't want to do it, but it has to be done, and if I didn't remind you would never do it!"
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  10. #10
    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    6,605
    Mentioned
    156 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Example of ENTj-ISFj duality

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    The same people who annoy me seem to annoy her as well.
    This is one thing I've noticed: complementary relationships. Obviously intra- and opposite quadra relationships with the same people are similar for duals (though more than you would expect), but in the adjacent quadras as well. For instance, benefaction and supervision. That only leaves Look-a-like and Illusionary, and those are fairly similar too.

  11. #11
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Another example of this duality - -


    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  12. #12
    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    TIM
    Beta sx 3w4;7w8
    Posts
    3,401
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I would think that picture is more of an ENFj + ISTj example of Duality.


    Dress pretty, play dirty ღ
    Johari
    Nohari

  13. #13
    Khamelion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    U.S.
    TIM
    SEE-Fi 6w7 sx/so
    Posts
    3,828
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
    I would think that picture is more of an ENFj + ISTj example of Duality.


    does he mean the picture, or the actual people in the picture though
    SEE Unknown Subtype
    6w7 sx/so



    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

  14. #14
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    That's an interesting question and it tells more about what you are actually seeing - is that ENFj-ISTj or ENTj-ISFj? Why?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  15. #15
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,624
    Mentioned
    155 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
    I would think that picture is more of an ENFj + ISTj example of Duality.
    I think he meant the Knight to be ENTj and the princess to be ISFj. If the roles are reversed, then it could be yours.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  16. #16
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG

    I think he meant the Knight to be ENTj and the princess to be ISFj. If the roles are reversed, then it could be yours.
    Yes. That's one thing.

    (of course, being a successful medieval knight in terms of military prowess is certainly more an ISTj than ENTj thing).
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  17. #17
    Khamelion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    U.S.
    TIM
    SEE-Fi 6w7 sx/so
    Posts
    3,828
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG

    I think he meant the Knight to be ENTj and the princess to be ISFj. If the roles are reversed, then it could be yours.
    Yes. That's one thing.

    (of course, being a successful medieval knight in terms of military prowess is certainly more an ISTj than ENTj thing).

    Truuuue.

    Just from the FEELING of the picture, you could gather that they could be any number of dual pairs.

    ESTp knight, INFp princess
    ENTj knight, ISFj princess
    ISTj knight, ENFj princess
    INTj knight, ESFj princess

    But thinking about the reality of the picture, it could be any type pair what-so-ever
    SEE Unknown Subtype
    6w7 sx/so



    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

  18. #18
    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    TIM
    Beta sx 3w4;7w8
    Posts
    3,401
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Any type pair? Nahh... I don't think so.


    Dress pretty, play dirty ღ
    Johari
    Nohari

  19. #19
    Khamelion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    U.S.
    TIM
    SEE-Fi 6w7 sx/so
    Posts
    3,828
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
    Any type pair? Nahh... I don't think so.


    Pretty close-minded. Use your imagination and you'll realize I'm right.
    SEE Unknown Subtype
    6w7 sx/so



    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

  20. #20
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Clover

    ESTp knight, INFp princess
    Nah. No ESTp vibe from that knight.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  21. #21
    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    TIM
    Beta sx 3w4;7w8
    Posts
    3,401
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by Clover

    ESTp knight, INFp princess
    Nah. No ESTp vibe from that knight.
    See, Clover =P I'm not really being close-minded.. I just think that the picture would be much more suitable to SOME duality pairs than others.


    Dress pretty, play dirty ღ
    Johari
    Nohari

  22. #22
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    My reasons for saying ENTj - ISFj --

    The knight is showing devotion and yes, well, a bit of -- voluntary submission. Victimhood. The princess is the one with more of the two - that's the thing to keep in mind. The knight acknowledges that voluntarily as long as she demonstrates her sincere appreciation for the knight - . Yes the whole "public ritual" aspect of the scene could also be interpreted as but I chose to take the princess's understated gestures and expression as a sign that it's more . Presumably the knight did some real service for the princess - - which is why she's confirming the situation between them.

    Of course it all depends on what they are really thinking. I chose to look at the picture with sort of Victorian Fi eyes.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  23. #23

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    745
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Presumably the knight did some real service for the princess - -

    ...
    Damn right he did! That's some Victorian euphemism.

    (joking!)

  24. #24
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stefana
    Damn right he did! That's some Victorian euphemism.
    Ah well, that would be hardly -- or would it?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  25. #25

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    745
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    LoL ... no, not .

  26. #26
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    That's more like ESTp-INFp:

    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  27. #27
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,624
    Mentioned
    155 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stefana
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Presumably the knight did some real service for the princess - -

    ...
    Damn right he did! That's some Victorian euphemism.

    (joking!)
    ahahahah you dirty girl
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  28. #28
    Khamelion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    U.S.
    TIM
    SEE-Fi 6w7 sx/so
    Posts
    3,828
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    i stand by what i said


    just because expat said he doesn't think so doesn't make him right or wrong. he's just a person too. he can be wrong. or right.
    SEE Unknown Subtype
    6w7 sx/so



    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

  29. #29
    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    TIM
    Beta sx 3w4;7w8
    Posts
    3,401
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    You can be wrong or right too! But apparently, you are more than a person ... "you'll see that I'm right" .. quoted from above


    Dress pretty, play dirty ღ
    Johari
    Nohari

  30. #30
    Khamelion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    U.S.
    TIM
    SEE-Fi 6w7 sx/so
    Posts
    3,828
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
    You can be wrong or right too! But apparently, you are more than a person ... "you'll see that I'm right" .. quoted from above

    naw im a person, and clearly you didn't see that i was right to each his own, or her own


    i understand what you guys mean, how it doesn't fit. im just looking at it differently...very generally. its a problem i have
    SEE Unknown Subtype
    6w7 sx/so



    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

  31. #31
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    57 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    here's an ENTj/ISFj couple talking to their ESFp friend

    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  32. #32
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    57 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    heh
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  33. #33
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Clover
    just because expat said he doesn't think so doesn't make him right or wrong. he's just a person too. he can be wrong. or right.
    Of course
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  34. #34
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default A likely RL example of male ISFj - female ENTj duality





    Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward
    Last edited by silke; 07-17-2014 at 04:05 PM. Reason: updated pic
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  35. #35
    aka Slacker Slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    North Korea
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    8,819
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    That's interesting. My mom used to be an actress, and she was always cast in roles that were "Joanne Woodward" roles, whatever those were, because people thought she looked and acted just like her.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

  36. #36
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    If you look at recent videos of her, especially when interviewed about plays she directs, EJ temperament and Te are very obvious, although she is (obviously) very good at Fe (or at being emotion-creating) on such occasions. ESTj is possible, but I thought of this because both of them have been very close friends of Gore Vidal for decades, and I have no doubt that Vidal is an INTp. So, everything fits.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  37. #37
    Dioklecian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    UK
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    4,304
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    She could be ESFJ IMO.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

  38. #38
    Forest-Dragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    TIM
    ESTj
    Posts
    78
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Her expression looks pretty ENTj to me

  39. #39
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    TIM
    D-LSI-Ti 1w9 sp/sx
    Posts
    11,586
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    She looks like Joy. Her expression and the look in her eyes do.
    Yeah, and the very slight tensing of the lips. It's strikingly like Joy, minus the makeup (which I hate on girls most of the time).

  40. #40
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Slacker Mom

    Would you watch a video of an interview with Joanne Woodward, when already a bit older, and say whether she somehow comes across like your mother at the same age?

    It's not available in YouTube, but you can go here:

    http://www.charlierose.com/search/

    And search either for the date - 04/16/1997 - or with her name.

    You don't have to buy it, if you click on the small screen directly you can watch it.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •