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Thread: ISFp description (Filatova) edited!

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    Default ISFp description (Filatova) edited!

    Sensory-Ethical Introvert
    SEI – ISFp – Dumas (Intermediary)

    Installation of the leading bloc: SEI: life for him is defined by harmony, comfort, the possibility to feel pleasure; it is necessary to show all of this to others for the sake of combined enjoyment, he likes to make others happy.


    Description of the Strong Functions:

    Si: For the SEI this function is principally focused on health, in the broadest sense of the word. Into this concept enters the sensations of his body, his health or illness. Also concerns food and its preparation, the sensation of comfort in his environment (including at work), clothing (its aesthetic value and convenience).

    SEI comprehends well the characteristics of a living organism, its needs. Physicians, despite having authority that he lacks, will not be able to bring sense down to the SEI should they supply a diagnosis that does not coincide with his inherent sensations. Generally he considers being ill as something almost indecent: it is foolish, in fact, not to take care of oneself!

    He understands sensations so well that he is capable of noting barely perceptible signs in others that they are not aware of. However, in these cases he does not consider it proper to interfere with another person, to offer his indications or recommendations. In the area of health one must take personal responsibility.

    SEI knows how to wonderfully prepare, and tastefully eat up, food. An excellent culinary specialist, he often invents something new and original. He also decorates his environment to make it aesthetically attractive – so that both his eyes and stomach may be on holiday.

    SEI approaches his environment from a very sensory dimension. In furnishing a room he focuses on coziness, convenience, proper selection of furniture, the shades of colour – all of this is important and thus frequently serves as the object of concern and attention.

    In regards to clothing the SEI desires harmony but also realizes that articles must be convenient, functionally justified and beautiful. However, he will not dress for an occasion in accordance with prestige; such makes him uncomfortable – convenience is considered first of all!

    Fe: SEI is an epicure in both the physical and emotional realms. His emotionalism is developed in every respect. He loves many forms of art, especially music and singing. Frequently he plays a musical instrument, sings for entertainment. He is a good writer, poet, and artist. He is also an artist in love, and loves adventures in this sphere. He knows how to pleasantly care for another, to supply both emotional and sensual pleasure to his significant other. Depending on the circumstance SEI will use these traits in order to focus attention on himself.

    When it becomes apparent that a relationship is ending the SEI moves foreword, he takes part in one last conversation and hopes that everything else will fall in place without his participation. He then attempts to immediately bring a new acquaintance into his life; preceding the final break with the previous partner.

    Generally SEI tries to avoid tension by any means necessary. If a conflict flares up between others he tries to play the intermediary in order to reconcile the opposing parties as soon as possible. He finds himself to be inferior in the case of an argument, will therefore often agree with the collocutor. He very poorly responds to physical aggression. In such situation he is capable of defending himself but will afterwards feel regret and excessively talk about what has occurred. Most of the time his tactic is to walk away from tense situations, to return to a psychologically convenient territory, return to sensory comfort.

    When another suddenly attacks his immediate response is down-to-earth rather than any attempt to seem superior. This mode of acting insures that he may leave a conflict situation with having suffered minimal loss.

    His tendency to provide pleasure for himself and close ones frequently serves to make him the soul of the gathering. But if a group does not serve to please him he will simply find another circle of people that he finds more likeable. Sincere physical comfort is his principal motivation. When he suffers long periods without this sensation he begins to get depressed and everything falls out of his control.


    Description of the Weak Functions:

    Te: Business logic is the SEI’s weakest function. This weakness is developed in his inability to act productively, rationally. In order to efficiently work it is very important that the working environment has good and comfortable conditions.

    He poorly performs in rough, cumbersome work. If such is in prospect he will attempt to elude it, to be occupied with anything else, which interests him and is pleasant. Sometimes, after making an appointment with someone and/or to do something he may forget about his promise and thus miss and/or not complete his responsibilities. He finds himself distressed when such occurs and will, to the best of his abilities, avoid the consequences.

    Being oriented towards the realm of pleasure SEI does not like when others force him to do something that he finds unpleasant. He perceives such situations in an especially painful manner when forced to deal with the irrationality of his business activity. He does not have aims at social prestige – he finds it much more pleasant to focus on simple, everyday happiness and good relations with friends.

    Ni: The weakness of this function is especially developed, and may be observed, in the fact the SEI finds it very difficult to plan his time and execute work over any definite period. He must force himself to do this. He usually avoids specifying exact deadlines, in regards to his work, in order to have the opportunity to avoid responsibility if necessary.

    He is not always capable of correctly evaluating and thus adapting to a situation. It often occurs that he makes mistakes in his evaluations of people, evaluating them to be more positive than they subsequently prove to be.

    Very cheerful, he lives for the present, plays the role of the man whom has no problems in the future.


    SEI at Work and in the Home:

    SEI frequently relies on personal relations in order to attain what is desired. He tries, as much as possible, to avoid authorities. He wonderfully knows how to select the proper psychological distance in his contacts. Thus in the business sphere he uses his strong functions, being the communicator – intermediary.

    Although SEI does not like to exert great efforts in work, if he finds the right job/career he can be taken away with great passion. But if he finds his work to be adverse he will never see it directly through to completion but will seek alternate routes in order to do everything in his own way by his own means.

    SEI is very tied to the family. Here, in the best way, is developed his sense of conformity, the ability to yield in a dispute, his good understanding of the health of other family members, the ability to help them, to create convenience and coziness. In protecting those he holds dear he is capable of overstepping his ordinary boundaries of conformity, even becoming aggressive.

    SEI is willingly occupied by the domestic tasks of cooking and interior decorating. In such regards he has an economically developed sense. He is thrifty, knows what to eat, what to buy. Moreover his thriftiness does not extend to close ones or friends whom, as a rule, find him to be sincere in his generosity.

    SEI relates to the development of his children with great respect. He attempts to train them, and has no doubts in this regard, assuming that knowledge may offer one of the greatest enjoyments in life.

    However, he finds it difficult to adhere to the norms of morals in regards to discipline. An Epicurean, he will not usually pass up the opportunity to spend time in the company of another. He is principally concerned with being satisfied and reasonably happy.


    Summary of Functions:
    1. Si: Their main focus in life is on pleasure. Knows how to create coziness and comfort around themselves. Understands well their body’s needs; an Epicure and aesthete. Avoids power struggles and applying pressure to themselves.
    2. Fe: Adheres to the rule of avoiding negative emotions whilst, where possible, striving to create positive emotions. Softly, and without restraint, can associate at a close psychological distance. Successfully carries out the role of intermediary in disputes, reconciling opposing parties.
    3. Te: Effective, goal-directed, work is not their style. Leads by their enthusiasm rather than by systematic character. Finds it difficult to be incorporated in any regular system – acts spontaneously when applied to such a situation.
    4. Ni: They’re not very interested in what will occur in the distant future; principally focused on the “here and now.” SEI does not visualize well the concealed possibilities of people or events; attention is concentrated on visible concreteness.


    Professional Possibilities:
    The most adequate activities for the SEI are found in the sphere of services. Among people of this type it is possible to meet splendid artists and musicians; people of this psycho-type may also be successfully occupied by medicine and teaching. They realize their potential well in the areas of interior design, fashion and cuisine.


    Relations-
    Potentially Favourable:
    ILE (ENTp), IEE (ENFp), SLE (ESTp), LII (INTj)
    Potentially Adverse:
    LIE (ENTj), LSE (ESTj), EIE (ENFj), SEE (ESFp)
    INFp-Ni

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    Blaze's Avatar
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    thanks misutii, this sounds like a restful, relaxing person indeed....lol

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    I think this view of Si is a bit narrow (and I probably defined it too narrowly myself, too, at times).

    Si is about sensorial perceptions, but not only about feeling good as in food, relaxing, etc. It's also about focusing on what's in front of you (what you are seeing, hearing, touching, etc) rather than on what will happen or might happen.

    So, ISFps's Si is also visible in mechanical skills, fixing things (stereotypical ISTp traits), focusing on detailed paperwork, accounting, etc etc. Making sure all details of a task are complete before letting go (negativist).

    Cooking, painting etc are probably what gives ISFps the most enjoyment, but that's not all there is to Si.

    The Si PoLR of ENTjs and ENFjs, for instance, is visible in a dislike for immediate, short-term "details", where in ENTjs they are a dislike for Si details needed to achieve Fe effect (precisely the aesthetic thingy) while in ENFjs they are a dislike for Si details in Te matters (boring paperwork that nobody will notice or see etc).
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    I think this view of Si is a bit narrow (and I probably defined it too narrowly myself, too, at times).

    Si is about sensorial perceptions, but not only about feeling good as in food, relaxing, etc. It's also about focusing on what's in front of you (what you are seeing, hearing, touching, etc) rather than on what will happen or might happen.

    So, ISFps's Si is also visible in mechanical skills, fixing things (stereotypical ISTp traits), focusing on detailed paperwork, accounting, etc etc. Making sure all details of a task are complete before letting go (negativist).

    Cooking, painting etc are probably what gives ISFps the most enjoyment, but that's not all there is to Si.

    The Si PoLR of ENTjs and ENFjs, for instance, is visible in a dislike for immediate, short-term "details", where in ENTjs they are a dislike for Si details needed to achieve Fe effect (precisely the aesthetic thingy) while in ENFjs they are a dislike for Si details in Te matters (boring paperwork that nobody will notice or see etc).
    These are very good points...very good analysis.

    Still, I wonder about what Filatove meant here: "He poorly performs in rough, cumbersome work. If such is in prospect he will attempt to elude it, to be occupied with anything else, which interests him and is pleasant. Sometimes, after making an appointment with someone and/or to do something he may forget about his promise and thus miss and/or not complete his responsibilities. He finds himself distressed when such occurs and will, to the best of his abilities, avoid the consequences."

    If Si people like the boring, short-term "details" (or those don't bore them somehow), then what exactly do they consider to be "rough" and "cumbersome"? The passage suggests that they procrastinate such things, but it's not clear what they are. Is it tasks that seem too difficult, to daunting somehow?

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    PS...Thanks for these, by the way. (They should be made into stickies, I think.) I'd love to see the one for ILE too.

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    Si types prefer working with things\people rather than information about things (especially ISFps), also

    ISFps prefer rules (i.e. Ti formed) which don't require data written on reams boring paper, and almost seem formed on gut-instinct (a stripped down Ti maybe?) - a piece of paper with lots of dilute data doesn't tell them too much and is cumbersome to condense and understand, while ISTps use those reams of data as information about objects they interact with (they need the practical details about things they haven't experienced for themselves through Si) - it is another way of assimilating details about the world. (while ISFps obviously hate Te).

    (I look forward to the ILE description too ).
    EII-Ne
    5w4 or 1w9 Sp/So

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    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean
    Si types prefer working with things\people rather than information about things
    That sounds anti-Te.

    gut-instinct
    This is accurate.

    They 'just know it'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean
    Si types prefer working with things\people rather than information about things
    That sounds anti-Te.
    That bit is probably redundant to the rest of the post - but I think it applies to ISTps as well as ISFps, because their is stronger than their .

    Perceiving functions as a rule are about perceptions of objects, while judging functions are about information (of objects) - it's confusing, but they aren't the same thing - it's kind of like how the letter 'a' is an object, but the fact it is pronounced 'ah' is a piece of information about the object, rather than a detail of the object itself (this is linked to the theory of the sign, where the sign\the letter is different from the signifier\the letter's pronouncation but are percieved as the same thing).
    EII-Ne
    5w4 or 1w9 Sp/So

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean
    Perceiving functions as a rule are about perceptions of objects, while judging functions are about information (of objects) - it's confusing, but they aren't the same thing - it's kind of like how the letter 'a' is an object, but the fact it is pronounced 'ah' is a piece of information about the object, rather than a detail of the object itself (this is linked to the theory of the sign, where the sign\the letter is different from the signifier\the letter's pronouncation but are percieved as the same thing).
    It's all a matter of perspective. It seems that you're equating the concept of "a" with perception, and the fact that it has a certain sound with judgment, but it just as easily be the other way. The actual sound itself could be the perception, and the fact that it's written as "a" could be more like judgment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    These are very good points...very good analysis.

    Still, I wonder about what Filatove meant here: "He poorly performs in rough, cumbersome work. If such is in prospect he will attempt to elude it, to be occupied with anything else, which interests him and is pleasant. Sometimes, after making an appointment with someone and/or to do something he may forget about his promise and thus miss and/or not complete his responsibilities. He finds himself distressed when such occurs and will, to the best of his abilities, avoid the consequences."

    If Si people like the boring, short-term "details" (or those don't bore them somehow), then what exactly do they consider to be "rough" and "cumbersome"? The passage suggests that they procrastinate such things, but it's not clear what they are. Is it tasks that seem too difficult, to daunting somehow?
    I know an ISFp who I think is an extremely lazy person (socionics/Filatova has helped with my perception of her though). Since she left high school she has hardly done any professional work and constantly drops out of college only to return to a new college the next semester for a few weeks at the most. So far, I would describe her as one of life's failures and underacheivers even though she is extremely... and I do mean extremely talented in fashion design. The reason? Any sort of work that makes her even slightly uncomfortable will cause her to leave it and stay at home totally financially dependent on her parents and sometimes even the government. She just will not suffer or persist through anything unpleasant even if it will help her to achieve her goals in the long term. She is very orientated to the present and her present sensations, parodoxically, this is making her life very hard and rather unpleasant financially...but her priority remains her comfort. Sometimes I admire her staying true to herself and her artistic dreams but I do believe that in life one often has to do things one finds unpleasant to secure a more pleasant life in the future. I do not have strong however.

    Then even though her senses are very real, she seems absolutely divorced from life's practical realities IMO. Like she is still thinking it is possible to make a ton of money selling her home made greeting cards on her MYspace site. If you then point out to her that in months of trying this she has hardly made any money and that she would probably be better off in a salaried though not design related job (fashion design jobs have proven difficult for her to get)at least for a while to pay her bills, she becomes irritated.

    ISFps can do what others consider detail oriented boring work but it has to be work that they personally find interesting and not uncomfortable(especially physically or mentally). What they find "rough" and "cumbersome" is anything uninteresting and unpleasant for them and this is subjectively based. One ISFp will find a job like working on a farm "rough" and "cumbersome", another ISFp might find it peaceful,relaxing and interesting.
    Simply, if they find a task/job unpleasant they do tend to procrastinate on it or just leave it totally. I am seriously hoping to get some ENTp influence for my ISFp sister because I think it might help stop her being somewhat of a slave to sensations & productively direct her talents.
    Socionics: XNFx
    MBTI: INFJ

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    @megan: i used to know people like that when i was younger. never knew what ever happened to them, though. you think an entp can get her motivated? how would that work?

    you sound concerned about her. and exasperated...lol. she sounds kinda er in her mid twenties or something.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megan
    Simply, if they find a task/job unpleasant they do tend to procrastinate on it or just leave it totally.
    I feel that all IXFxs except ISFjs face the same problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    Quote Originally Posted by Megan
    Simply, if they find a task/job unpleasant they do tend to procrastinate on it or just leave it totally.
    I feel that all IXFxs except ISFjs face the same problem.
    isfjs too
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Creepy-Diana

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    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    @megan: i used to know people like that when i was younger. never knew what ever happened to them, though. you think an entp can get her motivated? how would that work?

    you sound concerned about her. and exasperated...lol. she sounds kinda er in her mid twenties or something.
    I think it can be a mutual motivation thing. The ISFp I described is very interested in and tends to seek out new ideas and technologies and usually knows how to use them before most people. ENTps are often like this too and can use and refine ideas well. I think what ENTps can do is use their to help make some of ISFps ideas work/return profit by coming up with innovative marketing ideas and so forth. ENTps also tend to appreciate ISFps generally and that will tend to boost the self esteem and self worthiness of ISFps and even make them more positive.

    Although they can seem very lazy, when ISFps manage to get motivated and are up and running, they can be a very energetic and productive and a good source of motivation for ENTps. I think Blaze, you might also find that your / becames sharper and more focused as you work to create new ideas and come up with strategies to make the ISFps projects work. They can motivate you naturally without applying a lot of a certain kind of pressure (as you can also do with them). They will appreciate your "way out" ideas (if you have any) very much too, my sister in particular tends to be only responsive to very unconventional people with very unconventional thoughts and solutions.
    This is my opinion of how the motivation thing could work but there was a thread here sometime ago on how all the dual relationships work/how to help make them work etc.
    Socionics: XNFx
    MBTI: INFJ

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    Is there any IXXx type that does not have a tendency towards motivation problems?
    Socionics: XNFx
    MBTI: INFJ

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    some of the j sorts maybe? like itj in mbti format although that mindset is rare nowadays it seems

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megan
    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    @megan: i used to know people like that when i was younger. never knew what ever happened to them, though. you think an entp can get her motivated? how would that work?

    you sound concerned about her. and exasperated...lol. she sounds kinda er in her mid twenties or something.
    I think it can be a mutual motivation thing. The ISFp I described is very interested in and tends to seek out new ideas and technologies and usually knows how to use them before most people. ENTps are often like this too and can use and refine ideas well. I think what ENTps can do is use their to help make some of ISFps ideas work/return profit by coming up with innovative marketing ideas and so forth. ENTps also tend to appreciate ISFps generally and that will tend to boost the self esteem and self worthiness of ISFps and even make them more positive.

    Although they can seem very lazy, when ISFps manage to get motivated and are up and running, they can be a very energetic and productive and a good source of motivation for ENTps. I think Blaze, you might also find that your / becames sharper and more focused as you work to create new ideas and come up with strategies to make the ISFps projects work. They can motivate you naturally without applying a lot of a certain kind of pressure (as you can also do with them). They will appreciate your "way out" ideas (if you have any) very much too, my sister in particular tends to be only responsive to very unconventional people with very unconventional thoughts and solutions.
    This is my opinion of how the motivation thing could work but there was a thread here sometime ago on how all the dual relationships work/how to help make them work etc.
    ah yes, i see what you mean. my ne/ti hasn't been that great lately due to huge hits to my fi. lol.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megan
    Is there any IXXx type that does not have a tendency towards motivation problems?
    I know I do, but I'd think maybe ISjs wouldn't as much?

    Diana, what do you think? Motivation is simply acting on the want to do something (a general or specific something).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean
    Perceiving functions as a rule are about perceptions of objects, while judging functions are about information (of objects) - it's confusing, but they aren't the same thing - it's kind of like how the letter 'a' is an object, but the fact it is pronounced 'ah' is a piece of information about the object, rather than a detail of the object itself (this is linked to the theory of the sign, where the sign\the letter is different from the signifier\the letter's pronouncation but are percieved as the same thing).
    It's all a matter of perspective. It seems that you're equating the concept of "a" with perception, and the fact that it has a certain sound with judgment, but it just as easily be the other way. The actual sound itself could be the perception, and the fact that it's written as "a" could be more like judgment.
    My distinction was between a visible details of an object and discrete details of an object - the discrete details are information because they aren't always true in every given context (e.g. the location of the object in relation to something else, the time it is in etc.) whereas with visible details - they are always true - they are entangled in the defintion of the object - a silly (because my brain isn't working today) example would be a red apple is always red - if it was a different colour it wouldn't be a red apple. But, the apple remains red regardless of where or when it is.
    EII-Ne
    5w4 or 1w9 Sp/So

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    Is there any IXXx type that does not have a tendency towards motivation problems?
    You'd be looking at the well-defined positive process type judgers: ISTj. The ones that latch on to dogma's for the sheer gain in energy and confidence and act on them in the most direct way to achieve concrete results... It's the kind of mindset that gives a constant stream of motivation. Never an alternative path to distract you. (This last thing is why the 'what-if?' function, , is so frightful to these types.)

    I'd say everything you can glean from the letter 'a' without knowing what system of language it is a part of falls under perception, and anything else - it's role in language - is judgment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evanesce
    Quote Originally Posted by Megan
    Is there any IXXx type that does not have a tendency towards motivation problems?
    What do you mean by motivation problems?
    "If a pretty poster and a cute saying are all it takes to motivate you, you probably have a very easy job. The kind robots will be doing soon" lol despair.com
    INFp-Ni

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    this description totally fits me. In my case, i just want to be/feel different like other people within my own system of beauty. I know beauty means for everyone different, but just in my case i enjoy particularity music. Im not musican, but i really enjoy sing (also people said i sing well). I play the guitar influenced by tortoise and mogwai, but im not totally comprometed with the cause. Im only consider to myself a good listener. I really like to order my place, provide them some touch of my creative style (i though). I dont know, im not an artist, i like to work with plasticine but i hate draw. Painting sounds well. Anyways, im going to be a programmer, i trust that computers science its a very old hobbie for me, mostly videogames.

    i want to add some experience: Im somehow bipolar (friends of mine said cuadripolar). Sometimes im very low and another very high. Sometimes i like to be alone (even with my girlfriends) because i like my place in my house. Others, i prefer be with friends or meetings some guys i dont see for a long time. I have problems with math, but i know how to handle (you dont know how i love calculators :wink: ) I have a stupid tendence to analyze how things works because i got different perspective from things like other people 'correctly' does. I like lenguage and i dislike how other people write 'n00b' or stuff like that. Actually, my english have been improved reading some books or text. I thinks its because my extroverted learning, i really enjoy talk interesting matters even in different lenguage.
    Anyways, sorry for my english. In my country, english assignment its really bad, but lately it has improved by globalizacion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evanesce
    if you want to do it, then what's the problem?
    Exactly my point.

    Sometimes it's difficult (for Ne types I think especially) to do something even if they realize intellectually that it is something they want or need.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megan
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    These are very good points...very good analysis.

    Still, I wonder about what Filatove meant here: "He poorly performs in rough, cumbersome work. If such is in prospect he will attempt to elude it, to be occupied with anything else, which interests him and is pleasant. Sometimes, after making an appointment with someone and/or to do something he may forget about his promise and thus miss and/or not complete his responsibilities. He finds himself distressed when such occurs and will, to the best of his abilities, avoid the consequences."

    If Si people like the boring, short-term "details" (or those don't bore them somehow), then what exactly do they consider to be "rough" and "cumbersome"? The passage suggests that they procrastinate such things, but it's not clear what they are. Is it tasks that seem too difficult, to daunting somehow?
    I know an ISFp who I think is an extremely lazy person (socionics/Filatova has helped with my perception of her though). Since she left high school she has hardly done any professional work and constantly drops out of college only to return to a new college the next semester for a few weeks at the most. So far, I would describe her as one of life's failures and underacheivers even though she is extremely... and I do mean extremely talented in fashion design. The reason? Any sort of work that makes her even slightly uncomfortable will cause her to leave it and stay at home totally financially dependent on her parents and sometimes even the government. She just will not suffer or persist through anything unpleasant even if it will help her to achieve her goals in the long term. She is very orientated to the present and her present sensations, parodoxically, this is making her life very hard and rather unpleasant financially...but her priority remains her comfort. Sometimes I admire her staying true to herself and her artistic dreams but I do believe that in life one often has to do things one finds unpleasant to secure a more pleasant life in the future. I do not have strong however.
    I think she is wise to follow her artistic dreams and not take a "plan B" job if she can help it. However, she must avoid the temptation that some artists have to channel their aversion to non-artistic jobs to actually moving forward towards their artistic goal. A common temptation among artists is to end up living the artistic lifestyle without actually being artistically productive.

    BTW, I think sometimes artists avoid what seems to them uncomfortable because they're afraid it will ruin them somehow, take them away from the sense of beauty they find is their strength.

    Then even though her senses are very real, she seems absolutely divorced from life's practical realities IMO. Like she is still thinking it is possible to make a ton of money selling her home made greeting cards on her MYspace site. If you then point out to her that in months of trying this she has hardly made any money and that she would probably be better off in a salaried though not design related job (fashion design jobs have proven difficult for her to get)at least for a while to pay her bills, she becomes irritated.

    ISFps can do what others consider detail oriented boring work but it has to be work that they personally find interesting and not uncomfortable(especially physically or mentally). What they find "rough" and "cumbersome" is anything uninteresting and unpleasant for them and this is subjectively based. One ISFp will find a job like working on a farm "rough" and "cumbersome", another ISFp might find it peaceful,relaxing and interesting.
    Simply, if they find a task/job unpleasant they do tend to procrastinate on it or just leave it totally.
    The thing I sometimes wonder about is the difference between the artist-type ISFp and other ISFps who seem more practical. There are ISFps who are very grounded, and often found in health-related positions like being nurses, etc. Among guys, one finds ISFps who seem to be interested in hunting and fishing and that sort of thing. But then there's the artist type, and it's always hard to tell if the person is really S or N, because while the person may be structurally ISFp in some ways, he/she seems to be so much into ideas that one thinks maybe INFp or something else.


    I am seriously hoping to get some ENTp influence for my ISFp sister because I think it might help stop her being somewhat of a slave to sensations & productively direct her talents.
    You seem to have interesting insights here, and I'm interested in knowing more about how an ENTp would help her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    I think she is wise to follow her artistic dreams and not take a "plan B" job if she can help it. However, she must avoid the temptation that some artists have to channel their aversion to non-artistic jobs to actually moving forward towards their artistic goal. A common temptation among artists is to end up living the artistic lifestyle without actually being artistically productive.
    The thing is that she cannot help it at least not comfortable anyway. i mean she can always rely on the government and family but that is relying on other people's efforts and that is a bit parasitic IMO. Then sometimes, her excuses as to why she is not creating much artistically at present can only really be understood fully by types. She says things like the room at her mothers house where she is currently living is too small to "spread out" the way she likes when she is drawing or that the lighting in the room is quite bad etc and on & on. If only she got a job then she would eventually be able to find a nice comfortable spacious apartment in which to fulfil her artistic dreams or something. Gosh, sometimes i really do wonder if it is better for the pursuit of success to have as a polr than as a program function in a lot of cases .

    BTW, I think sometimes artists avoid what seems to them uncomfortable because they're afraid it will ruin them somehow, take them away from the sense of beauty they find is their strength.
    That is true. Is there not a way to balance the artistic dream with practical requirments etc?
    Socionics: XNFx
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megan
    Gosh, sometimes i really do wonder if it is better for the pursuit of success to have as a polr than as a program function in a lot of cases .
    Well of course it is, actually, Si types contrast a lot with Si-polr types mainly because the Si types question the efforts of the ENxjs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megan
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    I think she is wise to follow her artistic dreams and not take a "plan B" job if she can help it. However, she must avoid the temptation that some artists have to channel their aversion to non-artistic jobs to actually moving forward towards their artistic goal. A common temptation among artists is to end up living the artistic lifestyle without actually being artistically productive.
    The thing is that she cannot help it at least not comfortable anyway. i mean she can always rely on the government and family but that is relying on other people's efforts and that is a bit parasitic IMO. Then sometimes, her excuses as to why she is not creating much artistically at present can only really be understood fully by types. She says things like the room at her mothers house where she is currently living is too small to "spread out" the way she likes when she is drawing or that the lighting in the room is quite bad etc and on & on. If only she got a job then she would eventually be able to find a nice comfortable spacious apartment in which to fulfil her artistic dreams or something. Gosh, sometimes i really do wonder if it is better for the pursuit of success to have as a polr than as a program function in a lot of cases .

    BTW, I think sometimes artists avoid what seems to them uncomfortable because they're afraid it will ruin them somehow, take them away from the sense of beauty they find is their strength.
    That is true. Is there not a way to balance the artistic dream with practical requirments etc?
    you're coming at this situation with very logical point of view. This girl isn't very logical and neither am I so I'm going to do my best to respond for her in a way that can make you understand. She's probably fucking miserable and understands she's a burden to others and this is making her more fucking miserable. she doesn't feel loved and other's criticisms of her only serve to perpetuate her cycle of self-doubt. Getting a "normal" job on the one hand might do as you say and "fix" everything, or maybe it will only exacerbate the matter as she will then come to the realization that there's no point to life and happiness "isn't for her"... drug addictions and death then become increasingly likely and we wouldn't want that would we? I think that "success" is very relatively defined and that for her success does not mean money or social status but self-contentment, which, unfortunately, is much more difficult to acquire.

    while yes it may seem immoral for her to "leech" government money I don't think this situation should be analyzed separate from others like it, and there are many. If there are many then that fact leads me to believe the government has societal issues it needs to deal with and REALLY, like I mean REALLY, if the government didn't give that money to her do you HONESTLY believe they/it would do something better with it?

    lol excuse my cynicism I just woke up and the espresso isn't working! grrr
    INFp-Ni

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megan
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    I think she is wise to follow her artistic dreams and not take a "plan B" job if she can help it. However, she must avoid the temptation that some artists have to channel their aversion to non-artistic jobs to actually moving forward towards their artistic goal. A common temptation among artists is to end up living the artistic lifestyle without actually being artistically productive.
    The thing is that she cannot help it at least not comfortable anyway. i mean she can always rely on the government and family but that is relying on other people's efforts and that is a bit parasitic IMO. Then sometimes, her excuses as to why she is not creating much artistically at present can only really be understood fully by types. She says things like the room at her mothers house where she is currently living is too small to "spread out" the way she likes when she is drawing or that the lighting in the room is quite bad etc and on & on. If only she got a job then she would eventually be able to find a nice comfortable spacious apartment in which to fulfil her artistic dreams or something. Gosh, sometimes i really do wonder if it is better for the pursuit of success to have as a polr than as a program function in a lot of cases .

    BTW, I think sometimes artists avoid what seems to them uncomfortable because they're afraid it will ruin them somehow, take them away from the sense of beauty they find is their strength.
    That is true. Is there not a way to balance the artistic dream with practical requirments etc?
    I must say that I don't think the "artistic" personality or inclination to be impractical is related to . Actually, she sounds just like me before I started working. And I know other people who are neither nor like me personality-wise who are just as impractical and averse to the 9-5 routine.

    It sounds as if she's trying to be an entrepreneur. The people who are successful at doing that are able to work as hard working for themselves as someone would work if forced to by a boss. I think you're basically right though: She should find a partner with complementary skills.

    What's her website, by the way? Does she sell her own electronic cards, or hand-printed ones? Maybe we can be her first customers.

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    in other words...
    Carpe Diem= ISFp

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    Quote Originally Posted by normal
    in other words...
    Carpe Diem= ISFp
    Yeah, Carpe Diem is a very Alpha SF kind of philosophy, isn't it? I'm reminded of Dead Poets Society.

    Although ISFps can become obsessed with the Ni Role, worrying about the extreme long-term. Though they get over it easily, with a little Ne prodding.

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    This is confusing. I try to understand for my own sake what does it mean 'care about his own health'. I mean, I smoke (a lot), eat a lot of food (but Im not overweight) and sometimes I drinks (without money, there's nothing i could do).
    So, for my and part of my, I don't exactly understand when word try to explain things, maybe you could explain by examples or something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by normal
    This is confusing. I try to understand for my own sake what does it mean 'care about his own health'. I mean, I smoke (a lot), eat a lot of food (but Im not overweight) and sometimes I drinks (without money, there's nothing i could do).
    So, for my and part of my, I don't exactly understand when word try to explain things, maybe you could explain by examples or something.
    I think I understand your confusion. "Healthy" in society is defined as being super fit, having no addictions etc. I think the description, by healthy, means that if you ever have a problem with your health (mental or physical) you seek assistance and get it fixed before it gets too difficult to handle. Also you avoid situations that could leave you with serious injuries (i.e. dangerous sports, fights etc.) Health is in a sense strongly related to physical/sensual comfort, being "in touch" with your body and its needs.
    INFp-Ni

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    Quote Originally Posted by misutii
    I think I understand your confusion. "Healthy" in society is defined as being super fit, having no addictions etc. I think the description, by healthy, means that if you ever have a problem with your health (mental or physical) you seek assistance and get it fixed before it gets too difficult to handle. Also you avoid situations that could leave you with serious injuries (i.e. dangerous sports, fights etc.) Health is in a sense strongly related to physical/sensual comfort, being "in touch" with your body and its needs.
    Hmm, so Si would be more aware of safety and limits, and would back up Ne's overzealous curiosity to keep Ne from getting hurt from doing something dangerous?
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    Quote Originally Posted by misutii
    Quote Originally Posted by normal
    This is confusing. I try to understand for my own sake what does it mean 'care about his own health'. I mean, I smoke (a lot), eat a lot of food (but Im not overweight) and sometimes I drinks (without money, there's nothing i could do).
    So, for my and part of my, I don't exactly understand when word try to explain things, maybe you could explain by examples or something.
    I think I understand your confusion. "Healthy" in society is defined as being super fit, having no addictions etc. I think the description, by healthy, means that if you ever have a problem with your health (mental or physical) you seek assistance and get it fixed before it gets too difficult to handle. Also you avoid situations that could leave you with serious injuries (i.e. dangerous sports, fights etc.) Health is in a sense strongly related to physical/sensual comfort, being "in touch" with your body and its needs.
    I think that also with this there's an unspoken "not being a hypocondriac" about things. Si isn't about seeking assistance for every little possible problem that could become something bigger. It's recognizing when and which problems needs the assistance. (and I'm not talking about my teeth here )

    I would imagine that by POLR standards some ISFps might seem reckless with their health when it's truly a matter of being able to destinguish what's not a big deal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    Quote Originally Posted by misutii
    Quote Originally Posted by normal
    This is confusing. I try to understand for my own sake what does it mean 'care about his own health'. I mean, I smoke (a lot), eat a lot of food (but Im not overweight) and sometimes I drinks (without money, there's nothing i could do).
    So, for my and part of my, I don't exactly understand when word try to explain things, maybe you could explain by examples or something.
    I think I understand your confusion. "Healthy" in society is defined as being super fit, having no addictions etc. I think the description, by healthy, means that if you ever have a problem with your health (mental or physical) you seek assistance and get it fixed before it gets too difficult to handle. Also you avoid situations that could leave you with serious injuries (i.e. dangerous sports, fights etc.) Health is in a sense strongly related to physical/sensual comfort, being "in touch" with your body and its needs.
    I think that also with this there's an unspoken "not being a hypocondriac" about things. Si isn't about seeking assistance for every little possible problem that could become something bigger. It's recognizing when and which problems needs the assistance. (and I'm not talking about my teeth here )

    I would imagine that by POLR standards some ISFps might seem reckless with their health when it's truly a matter of being able to destinguish what's not a big deal.
    thanks that's actually what I was trying to get at in my post but failed!
    INFp-Ni

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elro
    Quote Originally Posted by misutii
    I think I understand your confusion. "Healthy" in society is defined as being super fit, having no addictions etc. I think the description, by healthy, means that if you ever have a problem with your health (mental or physical) you seek assistance and get it fixed before it gets too difficult to handle. Also you avoid situations that could leave you with serious injuries (i.e. dangerous sports, fights etc.) Health is in a sense strongly related to physical/sensual comfort, being "in touch" with your body and its needs.
    Hmm, so Si would be more aware of safety and limits, and would back up Ne's overzealous curiosity to keep Ne from getting hurt from doing something dangerous?
    That's more like Ni helping Se, really, if you take out the curiosity part.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by misutii
    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    Quote Originally Posted by misutii
    Quote Originally Posted by normal
    This is confusing. I try to understand for my own sake what does it mean 'care about his own health'. I mean, I smoke (a lot), eat a lot of food (but Im not overweight) and sometimes I drinks (without money, there's nothing i could do).
    So, for my and part of my, I don't exactly understand when word try to explain things, maybe you could explain by examples or something.
    I think I understand your confusion. "Healthy" in society is defined as being super fit, having no addictions etc. I think the description, by healthy, means that if you ever have a problem with your health (mental or physical) you seek assistance and get it fixed before it gets too difficult to handle. Also you avoid situations that could leave you with serious injuries (i.e. dangerous sports, fights etc.) Health is in a sense strongly related to physical/sensual comfort, being "in touch" with your body and its needs.
    I think that also with this there's an unspoken "not being a hypocondriac" about things. Si isn't about seeking assistance for every little possible problem that could become something bigger. It's recognizing when and which problems needs the assistance. (and I'm not talking about my teeth here )

    I would imagine that by POLR standards some ISFps might seem reckless with their health when it's truly a matter of being able to destinguish what's not a big deal.
    thanks that's actually what I was trying to get at in my post but failed!
    nah you did good... it just needed a teansy bit of clearification :wink:

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