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Thread: Xox's sig

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    Default Xox's sig

    has no question mark in it now....

    care to explain, Matti?

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    ENFp > ENTp

    I see the Ne, but not the Ti.

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    He shows far more Ni than Ne
    He seems to have difficulty judging people based on their individuality, instead preferring to judge people based on "what people usually do".

    ENFj was a far better fit than anything else he's proposed.
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    I don't think he is beta.

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    I think XoX is ENFp. And I think ENFp>>>ENTp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anndelise
    He seems to have difficulty judging people based on their individuality, instead preferring to judge people based on "what people usually do".
    Aristocracy!

    And I don't judge people by what they usually do - I judge them by my generalization of their overall personality and character. Unique behavior patterns have huge effect in that.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    He shows far more Ni than Ne
    He seems to have difficulty judging people based on their individuality, instead preferring to judge people based on "what people usually do".

    ENFj was a far better fit than anything else he's proposed.
    If I may:

    The similarity of Xox's posts to yours was my primary reason for saying ENFp > ENTp. There's just this huge mass of information that just keeps going and going and I try to comprehend it but there's just too little sense of coherence to complement the conceptual content.

    No offense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    He shows far more Ni than Ne
    He seems to have difficulty judging people based on their individuality, instead preferring to judge people based on "what people usually do".

    ENFj was a far better fit than anything else he's proposed.
    If I may:

    The similarity of Xox's posts to yours was my primary reason for saying ENFp > ENTp. There's just this huge mass of information that just keeps going and going and I try to comprehend it but there's just too little sense of coherence to complement the conceptual content.

    No offense.
    I say ENFp for totally different reasons. Every time XoX finds any new clues, he decides his type or a primary function. He doesn't bother to really think the entire thing through and make one educated decision. For me this shows low Ti. IMO, with all the data, there can only be one type per person. And it means a lot coming from me, because I'm the ENxj. (never once tested as a feeler). I don't know of any ENTps who behave like XoX in that aspect. This behavior also shows Si>Ni. "Whatever, I'll just decide to be ENTp for now." There's no Ni there.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
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    FWIW, in my own test the ENTp>ENFp preference was rather thin.

    I think Ne EP is a good bet. Kristiina, what you have attributed to low Ti could also be seen in a large Ne>Ti preference. In this forum XoX shows the behavior of abstract Ne which would be typically ENFp but clearly applicable to ENTp Ne subtype.

    In my opinion, though, XoX is still in the Alpha side of the Fe-Ti/Fi-Te divide.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    I say ENFp for totally different reasons. Every time XoX finds any new clues, he decides his type or a primary function. He doesn't bother to really think the entire thing through and make one educated decision. For me this shows low Ti. IMO, with all the data, there can only be one type per person. And it means a lot coming from me, because I'm the ENxj. (never once tested as a feeler). I don't know of any ENTps who behave like XoX in that aspect. This behavior also shows Si>Ni. "Whatever, I'll just decide to be ENTp for now." There's no Ni there.

    I thought he's actually made great effort to figure out his type. However, it seems that he sees numerous connections between various types and how they connect in various parts of his life. This could also be a sign of high Ni.

    Though I will admit, having difficulties determining one's own type could be related to low Ti, high Ni, high Fi...(i can't imagine a high Si even caring enough to go through the effort for this long....)

    XoX prefers to show relationships through analogies/metaphors which suggests a focus on internal (implied) qualities of relationships...which suggests Ni or Fi.

    I rule out Fi because the connections and relationships that he makes are abstract relationships while maintaining detachment. This leaves Ti and Ni.

    There are few rules to the relationships he makes, when he writes about them, their written in a very generalized way, and mix and mingle between things in very much a dynamic>static way. This is one reason that suggests to me Ni>Ti/Fi.

    There are, however, various posts that, to me, show high Ni and have a Beta feel to them.
    One example is: http://the16types.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8865 his first and second post on this link.

    So, taking the bolded parts:
    high focus on relationships between things and their internal qualities while detached and dynamic = Ni



    Anyway, that's part of my reasoning that I'm willing to share. The rest is more private due to PM/IM interactions with him and how it's eeringly similar to interactions I have with Beta NFs.

    Regardless of what type he settles with, he's shown a high preference for creative Xi, and thus I'd say he's an Xi creative subtype.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    There are, however, various posts that, to me, show high Ni and have a Beta feel to them.
    One example is: http://the16types.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8865 his first and second post on this link.
    Woah! XoX is like ... really patriotic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmcnew
    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    There are, however, various posts that, to me, show high Ni and have a Beta feel to them.
    One example is: http://the16types.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8865 his first and second post on this link.
    Woah! XoX is like ... really patriotic!
    I obviously wasn't referring to "patrioticness".
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    Not to mention also really ... motivational.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    Quote Originally Posted by rmcnew
    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    There are, however, various posts that, to me, show high Ni and have a Beta feel to them.
    One example is: http://the16types.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8865 his first and second post on this link.
    Woah! XoX is like ... really patriotic!
    I obviously wasn't referring to "patrioticness".
    +2 for bringing up the forum deletions :wink:

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    There are, however, various posts that, to me, show high Ni and have a Beta feel to them.
    One example is: http://the16types.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8865 his first and second post on this link.
    A Ni beta wouldn't be all SEI about it like he is. They would propose action, what to do and wouldn't stand there saying "But did we learn anything from this???". Also shifting though a lot of different types shows a lack of focus on Ni and in essence is an indulgence in Ne.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca
    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    There are, however, various posts that, to me, show high Ni and have a Beta feel to them.
    One example is: http://the16types.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8865 his first and second post on this link.
    A Ni beta wouldn't be all SEI about it like he is. They would propose action, what to do and wouldn't stand there saying "But did we learn anything from this???". Also shifting though a lot of different types shows a lack of focus on Ni and in essence is an indulgence in Ne.
    I read and thought about the thread in the quote... I think the first post is just about as Ne as it gets. It's all about, "this is happening, and this is happening, and this is like that other thing, and they said this, and some behave like that." A Ni person would in stead write a post, "This happened, these are the consequences, this might happen because of it, we need to lead ourselves to a foreseen pleasant future." Where's the conclusion there in that post? All these different stuff about behaviors and opportunities and opinions and about what's going on in the present, but he doesn't describe any process. He's like a static type in midst of a chaotic moment full of dynamic change. Everything's described as just a part of the present, it all leads to somewhere mysterious. Any hint of Ni-revelation there was hidden under a huge mask of brainstorming. Not one thought finished, not one process completed.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
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    Default Re: Xox's sig

    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    has no question mark in it now....

    care to explain, Matti?
    I removed the question mark because I was in the hopes of being very close to the truth or actually
    there Well I thought I was there but this thread makes me a bit suspicious again. So many opinions
    from people who generally know what they are talking about. I would think this means that I switch
    functions often when I interact here. I have to somehow nail down what is my real ego. I think
    I have been using my ego functions less than I should (in IRL too). I really have to get my functions
    together When it happens I will give you a virtual kiss

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    I think XoX is ENFp. And I think ENFp>>>ENTp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anndelise
    He seems to have difficulty judging people based on their individuality, instead preferring to judge people based on "what people usually do".
    Aristocracy!

    And I don't judge people by what they usually do - I judge them by my generalization of their overall personality and character. Unique behavior patterns have huge effect in that.
    Hmm...I think I judge people based on the behavior they at this very moment show. This means that if someone has been nice to me for the last two weeks but is now a bitch then I judge them. If someone has been a bitch to me for the last two weeks but now is nice then I don't judge them. Umm Not very deep. I do have some aristocratic tendencies in the way that I e.g. if someone claims to be "liberal" or "conservative" I draw pretty deep conclusions from that based on my experiences of liberals and conservatives. However I don't think I choose friends based on these kind of criteria. Maybe there is some initial bias but individual character beats group character. E.g. I don't take any more bitching from a rich person than a poor person etc. Nor do I adjust my behavior to suit them. I can't proove my lack of aristocracy though without objective observations. I believe most aristocrats claim to be democrats anyways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca
    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    There are, however, various posts that, to me, show high Ni and have a Beta feel to them.
    One example is: http://the16types.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8865 his first and second post on this link.
    A Ni beta wouldn't be all SEI about it like he is. They would propose action, what to do and wouldn't stand there saying "But did we learn anything from this???". Also shifting though a lot of different types shows a lack of focus on Ni and in essence is an indulgence in Ne.
    I read and thought about the thread in the quote... I think the first post is just about as Ne as it gets. It's all about, "this is happening, and this is happening, and this is like that other thing, and they said this, and some behave like that." A Ni person would in stead write a post, "This happened, these are the consequences, this might happen because of it, we need to lead ourselves to a foreseen pleasant future." Where's the conclusion there in that post? All these different stuff about behaviors and opportunities and opinions and about what's going on in the present, but he doesn't describe any process. He's like a static type in midst of a chaotic moment full of dynamic change. Everything's described as just a part of the present, it all leads to somewhere mysterious. Any hint of Ni-revelation there was hidden under a huge mask of brainstorming. Not one thought finished, not one process completed.
    The "static type in midst of a chaotic moment full of dynamic change" claim is interesting. Other than that...hard to comment because the content of the post was purposefully created as it is. The perceived "SEI":ness and "brainstorming" and all. I didn't want to seem like I'm trying to impose thoughts on people's thus I created the post in a way which will let people do their own conclusions. Most of all the point was to increase awareness of the fact that the situation was not over and there are dangers lurking behind the corner. Still Kristiina's analysis is something to thing about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    FWIW, in my own test the ENTp>ENFp preference was rather thin.

    I think Ne EP is a good bet. Kristiina, what you have attributed to low Ti could also be seen in a large Ne>Ti preference. In this forum XoX shows the behavior of abstract Ne which would be typically ENFp but clearly applicable to ENTp Ne subtype.

    In my opinion, though, XoX is still in the Alpha side of the Fe-Ti/Fi-Te divide.
    Fe>Fi from Expat Nothing new there but something to keep in mind.

    ENTp, ENFp, ENFj are still on the table I guess. Interesting to see who wins Yes they are competing

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    I didn't want to seem like I'm trying to impose thoughts on people's thus I created the post in a way which will let people do their own conclusions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    I didn't want to seem like I'm trying to impose thoughts on people's thus I created the post in a way which will let people do their own conclusions.
    I know I made that same observation when I wrote that sentence (apparently I left some words out of that sentence too ). The problem with typing myself through my text is that I'm starting to be too aware about what type my text portraits. When I write I'm like "hmm..the last sentence sounded like XXXx..if I change it like this it sounds like YYYy...so which one will I choose?" etc. I have lost the ability to not write as a member of some selected type. That sucks In written text I can at least temporarily take the role and attitude of many types. I want to get back to my own style of typing but it is lost

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    Btw one consistent pattern I seem to have is that I try to indirectly affect the opinions of people and move them to the direction I'd prefer them to go. Like if I want people to think X then I don't go out and say "THINK X! THINK X! AND THIS IS WHY ....". Instead I go out and say "You should think Y because blaa blaa bullshit blaa blaa" then they go like "Your case for Y is bullshit...I will think X instead!". So then they think what I originally wanted them to think but they don't know it. Ok I make this sound like manipulation but I see it as a positive thing. Like if I see that world should be moving to direction X and people
    generally move to direction Y I feel like I need to change the direction. I just do it indirectly and not in "Te way" of directly arguing my position or "Se way" of forcing people to some direction. I say things which make people come to conclusions which I prefer (without them knowing that I prefer those conclusions). Now did I just contradict what I said earlier?

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    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca
    I don't think he is beta.
    I felt like commenting this too. There was a point in time not long ago when you said I'm a stereotypical INFp. Is it because I made stupid jokes about Beta that you have totally reversed your position? Or is there something else that have made you change your mind?

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    I think the Fe vs Fi division is the focal point which I can use to nail down my type. It is now down to three: ENFj, ENFp, ENTp and it is very unlikely that more types should be brought in.

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    I don't know what type you are XoX but you're deffinately good people

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    I think the Fe vs Fi division is the focal point which I can use to nail down my type.
    Focal, or fecal?
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca
    I don't think he is beta.
    I felt like commenting this too. There was a point in time not long ago when you said I'm a stereotypical INFp. Is it because I made stupid jokes about Beta that you have totally reversed your position? Or is there something else that have made you change your mind?
    No, I haven't though you could be beta for a while.

    The thing was that you claimed you were IEI and I though about it and it seemed to me like you were what I saw as a weird IEI, or in other words stereotypical. I have to admit that my impression of you at that time was rather shallow. It still is now but my general impression over time has improved and it is that you have not displayed any behavior that I would consider as positively beta. In fact some things, like that opening post in the thread anndelise posted, really put me off, for the reasons kristiina posted. All in all my impression of you (meaning impression over time) is that of you not being beta, not my opinion (Meaning current assessment) of you. For instance, this post makes me doubt my assessment of you not being beta

    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Btw one consistent pattern I seem to have is that I try to indirectly affect the opinions of people and move them to the direction I'd prefer them to go. Like if I want people to think X then I don't go out and say "THINK X! THINK X! AND THIS IS WHY ....". Instead I go out and say "You should think Y because blaa blaa bullshit blaa blaa" then they go like "Your case for Y is bullshit...I will think X instead!". So then they think what I originally wanted them to think but they don't know it. Ok I make this sound like manipulation but I see it as a positive thing. Like if I see that world should be moving to direction X and people
    generally move to direction Y I feel like I need to change the direction. I just do it indirectly and not in "Te way" of directly arguing my position or "Se way" of forcing people to some direction. I say things which make people come to conclusions which I prefer (without them knowing that I prefer those conclusions). Now did I just contradict what I said earlier?
    as it seems to me that with that post you are tying to do what you describe in that post.

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    I posted this already in the "flocking" thread. This doesn't really support me being Alpha or ENTp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    I think people do flock together by quadras, at least in my experience. If I look at our friends, they're primarily other Delta people.
    I did a calculation. I included here all people who we spend time with on a rather regular basis:

    In my case the rankings (by sheer amount of people not by quality of interaction)

    Quadra ranking:
    1. Gamma and Delta
    3. Beta
    4. Alpha

    Type ranking:
    1. ESTj
    2. ESFp and ESTp

    In my wife's case:

    Quadra ranking:
    1. Gamma
    2. Alpha
    3. Delta and Beta

    Type ranking:
    1. ESFp, ISFj
    3. ENFp, ESTp

    As a total sum of our family interactions

    Quadra ranking:
    1. Gamma
    2. Delta and Alpha
    4. Beta

    Type ranking:
    1. ESFp
    2. ISFj
    3. ESTj and ESTp

    We seem to spend most of our time with sensors (usually with extroverted ones).

    Types with which we have no interaction with: ENTp, ENFj

    Now how do I flock?

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    Are you really more sure of others' types than your own? Curious...

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Are you really more sure of others' types than your own? Curious...
    Considerably more sure. I find it much easier to type others. I generally think I'm good at typing others but I have known to make mistakes with types I have very little practical experience of. Also sometimes gender differences may skew the results. Anyways I believe my data to be as or more accurate than the average similar data posted here when people analyze their relationships. Can it be trusted as a basis for decision? Hard to say.

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    XoX, I replied to your last PM, but you don't seem to have even opened it -- can you see it?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    XoX, I replied to your last PM, but you don't seem to have even opened it -- can you see it?
    Oh, thanks It is there but for some reason it says "You have no new messages" on top of the page. So I haven't even checked my PMs. Apparently some kind of bug.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Are you really more sure of others' types than your own? Curious...
    Considerably more sure. I find it much easier to type others. I generally think I'm good at typing others but I have known to make mistakes with types I have very little practical experience of. Also sometimes gender differences may skew the results. Anyways I believe my data to be as or more accurate than the average similar data posted here when people analyze their relationships. Can it be trusted as a basis for decision? Hard to say.
    I didn't really intend to call your typing abilities into question; this is just something that is pretty commonly taken for granted, that knowing your own type is the first step. Maybe it doesn't have to be (although it's certainly important).

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Are you really more sure of others' types than your own? Curious...
    Considerably more sure. I find it much easier to type others. I generally think I'm good at typing others but I have known to make mistakes with types I have very little practical experience of. Also sometimes gender differences may skew the results. Anyways I believe my data to be as or more accurate than the average similar data posted here when people analyze their relationships. Can it be trusted as a basis for decision? Hard to say.
    I didn't really intend to call your typing abilities into question; this is just something that is pretty commonly taken for granted, that knowing your own type is the first step. Maybe it doesn't have to be (although it's certainly important).
    In my opinion it is a completely different thing to type yourself and others because it is hard to achieve objectivity in your own case. I cannot really observe and model myself in the way I can observe and model others. Perhaps there are differences in what is a natural approach to different people but for me it is more like learning to type others is the natural first step and learning to apply that knowledge to myself is the final step. Why would it be commonly taken for granted that it is the other way around anyways?

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    Landlord of the Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
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    Some people are easy to type because they seem an extreme example of a particular type that it seems implausible for them to be something else - if you are only one person, you can't contrast two personalities with each other, not objectively anyhow. I care more about what my type is than someone else's, but I don't think that makes me more certain of my type - it seems the more data I accumulate about myself, the more inconistencies I see - with other people, I'm generally satisfied with typing their general behaviour or mood, and if I see gross inconsistencies I change the typing - I can't do this so easily with myself, because I know myself too much.
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    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    In my opinion it is a completely different thing to type yourself and others because it is hard to achieve objectivity in your own case. I cannot really observe and model myself in the way I can observe and model others.
    Agreed.

    Why would it be commonly taken for granted that it is the other way around anyways?
    Not sure. (I may be overstating just how common it is.) Perhaps because typing oneself generally does happen when one first learns of Socionics. Post hoc--not to say it isn't true.

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