Results 1 to 32 of 32

Thread: Preference for PMs over public discussions

  1. #1
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Preference for PMs over public discussions

    Your opinions on the possible Socionics implications of this.

    Some people prefer to address - even challenge - my views, and actions as moderator - over PM, not in public. When I invite them to publish their views in the forum for a broader discussion, they go silent.

    (Disclaimer: I am not referring to anyone who has PMed me in the last month or so.)

    Example 1: One specific person - and a couple of other people - kept contesting my actions as moderator, back when I had to be more active. S/he kept saying, "you have warned this person for that, why don't you warn that person for this" etc etc. My reply was always the same: "I will not justify my actions individually to you. You have a problem with my actions as moderator, start a thread on 'Why Expat sucks as moderator' and let's discuss it openly'. S/he never did that.

    Example 2: Another person PMed me after I started my "Joy dichotomy" thread, saying "I know what you're doing, you want to put down Alphas and Betas". I said - again - "post that in the thread itself, then, and let's discuss it publicly". S/he replied, apparently confused: "you mean I should say it publicly?" "Of course." And that person, too, never did that.

    In neither case did they explain why they preferred not to take the issue to the forum - they just dropped it.

    So - -

    What do you see as at play here? Why do some people prefer to "challenge" me - and other people, I guess - over PM, but when invited to take the discussion to the open forum, they back off? What are they trying to accomplish, that has to be accomplished over PM and not publicly?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Ich bin ein ubel glied
    Posts
    8,198
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I personally think that people taking their grievances public like that can get pretty taxing, especially if the person complaining does so repeatedly and from a complete and utter over-reaction. That feels like the total pitts when that happens.

  3. #3
    Creepy-bg

    Default

    lol you both know I only like airing my grievences with you in public

  4. #4
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Amongst the stars
    TIM
    EII/INFj E9w1sp
    Posts
    4,078
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Personally, I like to approach people about potentially sensitive subjects in private. That includes criticizing anything about them. If a problem becomes unresolvable, and it's important enough to me, then I might open up the boundaries of the discussion to include more people, usually to ask their advice and opinion on the matter. I can see how discussing something like a moderator's capabilities and actions in public would be appropriate, as it involves the whole forum, but I'd usually prefer to at least start by approaching whoever I had an issue with directly. To me, it's the kind and considerate thing to do.

    Does this mean that you prefer people to complain publicly about/to you?
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

  5. #5
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde
    Personally, I like to approach people about potentially sensitive subjects in private. That includes criticizing anything about them. If a problem becomes unresolvable, and it's important enough to me, then I might open up the boundaries of the discussion to include more people, usually to ask their advice and opinion on the matter. I can see how discussing something like a moderator's capabilities and actions in public would be appropriate, as it involves the whole forum, but I'd usually prefer to at least start by approaching whoever I had an issue with directly. To me, it's the kind and considerate thing to do.
    I appreciate that, but that's not what I was talking about.


    Quote Originally Posted by Minde
    Does this mean that you prefer people to complain publicly about/to you?
    If the issue is related to my supposed "proper" behavior" - as in whether or not my criteria as moderator are fair, or whether or not I have some evil scheme to "put down" quadras - where it's clear that a denial from me won't be enough, then, if I request that the forum as a whole be heard - then, yes.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  6. #6
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    As for me... If I have a problem with someone, I try talking to that person about it in private before saying anything publicly. If that fails, I do whatever I need to do to accomplish my objective... whether it's calling them out publicly or going over their head or whatever.

    Therefore, if I was in your position, I would appreciate that the people voiced their complaints to me privately. However, in the situation you're describing, talking to mcnew about it (lol sorry mcnew... I'm not trying to get people to flood your inbox with complaints about mods) or posting a thread to see if others feel the same would be the logical thing for them to do after the situation could not be resolved privately. Especially since you asked them to do so.

    I guess to me it sounds like they are either afraid of embarrassing themselves or something. Perhaps they know that they're just whining and do not have a legitimate complaint to stand on. Perhaps they don't want to look like they're whining. Or perhaps their problem is actually with someone else and they wish to avoid confronting that person (which means the did not do what I described at the beginning of my post). I have a feeling that most of the time it's a little of each of the above, but that's just speculation.

  7. #7
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Amongst the stars
    TIM
    EII/INFj E9w1sp
    Posts
    4,078
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    I appreciate that, but that's not what I was talking about.
    What, then, were you talking about? Could you rephrase your question?
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

  8. #8
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    As in my first post --

    Why do some people prefer to "challenge" me - and other people, I guess - over PM, but when invited to take the discussion to the open forum, they back off?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  9. #9
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Amongst the stars
    TIM
    EII/INFj E9w1sp
    Posts
    4,078
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Oh. I thought I answered that, or at least alluded to it. Perhaps they don't think it's worth it. That would be my reason, at least.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

  10. #10
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde
    Oh. I thought I answered that, or at least alluded to it. Perhaps they don't think it's worth it. That would be my reason, at least.
    Sure, but it was worth it to write me several PMs about those subjects? That's what I find bizarre.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  11. #11

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    52
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I would say a major contributing factor would be lack in confidence, either in the self, or more likely in their criticism. Criticizing people opens one up to rebuttal and judgment, even if their criticism wasn't judgmental.

    I don't think this is related to type, it is a defense mechanism of the ego.
    INTj

  12. #12
    Creepy-Diana

    Default

    .

  13. #13
    mustachio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    stoppage time
    Posts
    896
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Republicus
    I would say a major contributing factor would be lack in confidence, either in the self, or more likely in their criticism. Criticizing people opens one up to rebuttal and judgment, even if their criticism wasn't judgmental.

    I don't think this is related to type, it is a defense mechanism of the ego.
    i totally agree with this. if somebody knows precisely what they're talking about and can think about all possible rebuttals then they wouldn't be scared to look foolish. because they would know their subject thoroughly. implacable like teflon. discussions over pm keeps one from looking like they are talking from out of their ass. being wrong isn't as bad in private as it is in public. it is a matter of public opinion of that person's intelligence, credibility, etc. personally, i don't see the point of discussing "important" matters over pm. if you're going to say something serious, it better be well thought out, don't you think?
    IEI - the nasty kind...

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    694
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    ..
    IEI subtype

  15. #15
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,826
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't generally get personal issues with people.
    I prefer to leave it on the field, as opposed to carry on grudges through pm.
    If there was a truly personal matter at hand, then I would not make it unnecessarily public.

    But if I disagreed with you theoretically, I would say such outrightly.
    And if I thought you were pushing me in terms of being real, or violating me in an sort of way,
    you would know about it on all fronts.

    If I thought you sucked as an administrator, you would definitely know about it.
    Especially in a place like this - an online forum, there is no reason for me to not be direct about it.
    But I've had no personal problems with the forum, so I have nothing to speak of.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  16. #16
    Rick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Former USSR (global nomad)
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    2,050
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Preference for PMs over public discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    What do you see as at play here? Why do some people prefer to "challenge" me - and other people, I guess - over PM, but when invited to take the discussion to the open forum, they back off? What are they trying to accomplish, that has to be accomplished over PM and not publicly?
    I think this isn't socionics related, but comes from the real or perceived power structure. Whenever one person gains some sort of authority, someone else will feel threatened by it. Of course, they usually don't challenge you openly unless they expect to win and take your place.

  17. #17

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    8,578
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Republicus
    I would say a major contributing factor would be lack in confidence, either in the self, or more likely in their criticism. Criticizing people opens one up to rebuttal and judgment, even if their criticism wasn't judgmental.

    I don't think this is related to type, it is a defense mechanism of the ego.
    yeah.

  18. #18
    cunnilingus epilepsy inducer
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    1,429
    Mentioned
    45 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    What do you see as at play here? Why do some people prefer to "challenge" me - and other people, I guess - over PM, but when invited to take the discussion to the open forum, they back off? What are they trying to accomplish, that has to be accomplished over PM and not publicly?

    When someone challenges you in public they are not just challenging you they are also challenging all of your possible supporters. And if the challenger doesn't have public support to challenge you, it is a death wish to their cause. Also changing public opinion is difficult and time consuming and just going to you isn't.

    So it's like lobbying for the government to change the law because you know the people don't agree with your views, or you can't be bothered/can't afford to convince enough people.

    It sounds like something introverts might do, but I'm not sure.

  19. #19
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,983
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I reckon people do that for the same reason they throw garbage into dust bins. Moderation issues generally don't make for quality post readings, so it's better if they are resolved behind the screens.

  20. #20
    mustachio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    stoppage time
    Posts
    896
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    i'm honestly baffled by this thread. if i had something to say i wouldn't be scared to post it. personally, i don't really give a fuck about public opinion. i mean this is a forum for god's sake. it ain't real!
    IEI - the nasty kind...

  21. #21
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Is a conversation you have with a guy sitting next to you at a bar real?

  22. #22
    mustachio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    stoppage time
    Posts
    896
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Is a conversation you have with a guy sitting next to you at a bar real?
    what do you mean?
    IEI - the nasty kind...

  23. #23
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    How does is internet communication any less real than other forms of communication? It may not be as personal, but it's real.

  24. #24
    mustachio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    stoppage time
    Posts
    896
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    conversations are real yes. but you can walk away scotch free from this site at any moment. you could say the dumbest things for months, years. your life wouldn't change much. but, if you go say dumb things in irl, in public it might have a detrimental effect on your life for a long while.

    you asked me if a conversation in a bar with some guy is real. yes, and more so than this forum. why? because you or anyone else on this site (including me) would never tell a 300-pound dude to shove it. never. that's why i personally refrain from getting into dead end fights with other members (i try my best). because it's useless and cowardly. because irl my tongue stops moving when i get mad. my fists do the talking.
    IEI - the nasty kind...

  25. #25
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    oic

  26. #26
    XoX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    4,407
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    One reason for this could be to avoid affecting anyone's public image (their own or the other person's) e.g. someone want to criticize you and somehow affect your actions in the future but doesn't want the whole issue to become public. Doesn't want publicly put you under spotlight for example. This person tries to be sensitive and critical at the same time. The idea is that if it just stays between you and that person a much tougher language can be used without it getting "serious". I personally can take more criticism in private than in public. I consider public criticism (subconsciously) to be somekind of attack against me with hostile intensions (e.g. to affect the balance of power etc). So I would prefer private criticism or at least it would have more effect on me. One-on-one criticism is very hard to see as a "sneak attack". It gives me a chance to listen and change my behavior without making it a public battle where one or both have to lose. It is just more comfortable and one can avoid unnecessary "battles" that way. It is actually somekind of rule in some leadership book that you should generally give praise in public and criticism in private. I'm not sure how many here agree that a good leader acts like that. It sounds kind of Fe:ish? If your boss kicks your ass in public it is a humiliation but if he does it in private then it is a lesson and no one else has to know, lol.

    So, I guess that is kinda Fe then? Or just feelery. I can see how Fi types could perhaps do that too.

  27. #27

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    62
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    i don't come here often, but the impression that i had was the admin and moderators were doing a great job.

    Expat, i didn't know you were under attack coz i think in general you've been fair. yeah, it might be a great idea to start a thread and lay down all the ground rules once and for all. i think the first rule should be on personal attacks.

  28. #28
    Creepy-bg

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sara
    i don't come here often, but the impression that i had was the admin and moderators were doing a great job.

    Expat, i didn't know you were under attack coz i think in general you've been fair. yeah, it might be a great idea to start a thread and lay down all the ground rules once and for all. i think the first rule should be on personal attacks.
    the first rule is that you must understand all the rules before discussion of the rules can begin! :wink:

  29. #29

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    62
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    you're right, we need to understand all the rules. that means we have to agree on what rules there should be, what constitutes a violation of the rules and the possible consequences. we get those and we understand the rules.

    i said no personal attacks in the previous posting but what i really meant was respect for others' opinions.

  30. #30
    Creepy-bg

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sara
    you're right, we need to understand all the rules. that means we have to agree on what rules there should be, what constitutes a violation of the rules and the possible consequences. we get those and we understand the rules.
    I vote for none

  31. #31
    meatburger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    A Quazar named Northern Territory
    Posts
    2,570
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by little red riding hood
    conversations are real yes. but you can walk away scotch free from this site at any moment. you could say the dumbest things for months, years. your life wouldn't change much. but, if you go say dumb things in irl, in public it might have a detrimental effect on your life for a long while.

    you asked me if a conversation in a bar with some guy is real. yes, and more so than this forum. why? because you or anyone else on this site (including me) would never tell a 300-pound dude to shove it. never. that's why i personally refrain from getting into dead end fights with other members (i try my best). because it's useless and cowardly. because irl my tongue stops moving when i get mad. my fists do the talking.
    Its funny you should say that Red Riding hood. I feel the need to censor myself moreso here on this forum than in public(generally). In public, if i get into an argument with some random on the street it doesn't matter. I will probablly never see him / her again. On this public forum however, which i frequent often, if i make a fatal social mistake it will be quoted and set in stone for months to come. I could loose friends which i have here and if worst came to worst i would have to leave. I could then either not come back which would suck or have to create another identity for myself which is virtually impossible and not worth it.

    So i suppose what i mean is that i do feel the ebbs and flow of power, i do feel the need to watch what i say to some extent here, and i think some others would be in the same boat. It depends how much you care about this place.
    ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)

    "And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin

  32. #32
    mustachio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    stoppage time
    Posts
    896
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger
    Quote Originally Posted by little red riding hood
    conversations are real yes. but you can walk away scotch free from this site at any moment. you could say the dumbest things for months, years. your life wouldn't change much. but, if you go say dumb things in irl, in public it might have a detrimental effect on your life for a long while.

    you asked me if a conversation in a bar with some guy is real. yes, and more so than this forum. why? because you or anyone else on this site (including me) would never tell a 300-pound dude to shove it. never. that's why i personally refrain from getting into dead end fights with other members (i try my best). because it's useless and cowardly. because irl my tongue stops moving when i get mad. my fists do the talking.
    Its funny you should say that Red Riding hood. I feel the need to censor myself moreso here on this forum than in public(generally). In public, if i get into an argument with some random on the street it doesn't matter. I will probablly never see him / her again. On this public forum however, which i frequent often, if i make a fatal social mistake it will be quoted and set in stone for months to come. I could loose friends which i have here and if worst came to worst i would have to leave. I could then either not come back which would suck or have to create another identity for myself which is virtually impossible and not worth it.

    So i suppose what i mean is that i do feel the ebbs and flow of power, i do feel the need to watch what i say to some extent here, and i think some others would be in the same boat. It depends how much you care about this place.
    hmmm... you've become attached to this forum. i guess you're right. it does depend on how much you care. i do watch what i say. then again, it's mostly in order to never appear wrong. and i'm gonna be honest with you: if somebody hates me on this site it makes my day. for some obscure reason, i actually like confrontations and hot debates. but only when it concerns intelligent subjects. pointless immature insults always make me realise the obliviousness of it all.
    IEI - the nasty kind...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •