It makes you feel good to help

[vague]

solved

[Joy]

I'd guess Fe > Fi. Most likely irrational.

[aestrivex]

i think most of it fits ILI fairly well.

[aestrivex]

I'd guess Fe > Fi.

why?

[XoX]

Alpha/Beta...judging from the relationships might be something like ESFj, ESTp perhaps even ISFp (unless INFp but I take it that you are not identical).
So perhaps I go with the extrovert (ESFj vs ESTp) and pick the less confrontational i.e. ESFj.

Possible types outside of Alpha/Beta could be ENFp (even ESFp).

So let's say ESFj with ENFp as a wildcard possibility and the other types I mentioned as possibilities too.

I might have to re-evaluate because this is a quick take but that is what popped into my mind.

[XoX]

i think most of it fits ILI fairly well.

Didn't cross my mind but yes that could work. I fell into the Fe>Fi trap too. I think ILI's can be surprisingly grumpy and kind of emotional (think Sycophant). However I'm not changing my typing yet. Just acknowledging ILI as a possibility.

[aestrivex]

what Fe>Fi trap? i see only very minimal Fe in that description.

[XoX]

what Fe>Fi trap? i see only very minimal Fe in that description.

Well the thing that Fe people are unstable, exaggerating and manipulative bitches and Fi people are stable, ethical and so on. Generally the idea that Alpha and Beta do all the bitchy things and Gamma and Delta keep the society together. So whenever there is a description of a somewhat unstable and dramatic person -> has to be Fe quadra.

However the description sounds like something Sycophant could do (assuming here she is ILI). I'm not sure why I called the idea a "Fe>Fi trap" anyways lol. What a lousy name.

[XoX]

Lol so it could be ISTp too I guess. I'm a lousy typist...I have now listed almost all types

[Raver]

SEI is my first impression.

[FDG]

I'd guess Fe > Fi.

why?

Because she is BAD and BAD people are Fe!

ESFp.

[meatburger]

ESFp?

Hehe im only saying that because they are the only girls i have ever been really amazed at how manipulative they are

[Expat]

SEI is my first impression.

Yes.

A clear SEI in my opinion.

And no, not because all bad people are Fe. She's spoiled and immature, apart from her type, but her type is also visible.

[Expat]

I can see why some thought ESFp, but this:

-She will not actively engage in conflict.

Is that a characteristic of any Se EP? That behavior in the restaurant is very familiar to me; it's the famous ISFp "sulk". It's not done as a sort of conscious strategy; they do it because they are really feeling ill due to what they perceive as very negative Fe coming from someone.

In interactions, she is playfully sarcastic and lets others do most of the talking

"Playfully sarcastic" is a characteristic of the negativist-narrator ISFps. They usually call it "teasing".

[FDG]

Sorry, I'm rather sure of ESFp.

1)A clear enneagram 7
2)Too active for being an introvert
3)ENTps are NOT passive
4)Doesn't like depending on her parents, doesn't want to admit being wrong
5)Common charateristics between ISFp and ESFp doesn't mean that the person is ISFp

This, of course, doesn't meant ESFps are manipulative and ISFps are not.

[vague]

@all the varying responses. Perhaps she is still too immature to type.

I considered ISFp for a long time but had doubts because she can be quite tactless at times. Plus most of the issues I criticize her on are Fe-issues and how she treats other people. Then again, she could just be a really bitchy Fe type. =p I also considered ISFp because we are similar in a lot of ways except we have very different ideas on ethical behavior and she’s a clear negativist, I’m a clear positivist. I had doubts about this typing because she’s far more active and stubborn than the ISFps I have experienced.

I considered INTp for a while because she is most known for her sarcastic nature but had doubts because her decisions appear to lack foresight. She's good at offering other people practical advice though, just doesn't take it herself.

I considered ENTP briefly because that’s what she scored on MBTI test, but she took that quite some time ago and honestly, I don't see anything that would indicate that she's either a MBTI or socionics ENTp.

I hadn’t considered ESFp yet but that also could fit. I had categorized her tendency to pleasure-seek as an indication of alpha, but ESFps often display this too. She is incredibly stubborn and does try to dominate people and situations as well, although it is always in a passive-aggressive way. Plus, her dislike of debates/abstract issues could perhaps indicate poLR --poor ability to explain herself so she doesn't even bother? [although she might just plain out not be interested.]

Thanks for trying, folks. At least I've got it narrowed down to ESFp and ISFp.

[Blaze]

what Fe>Fi trap? i see only very minimal Fe in that description.

Well the thing that Fe people are unstable, exaggerating and manipulative bitches and Fi people are stable, ethical and so on. Generally the idea that Alpha and Beta do all the bitchy things and Gamma and Delta keep the society together. So whenever there is a description of a somewhat unstable and dramatic person -> has to be Fe quadra.

However the description sounds like something Sycophant could do (assuming here she is ILI). I'm not sure why I called the idea a "Fe>Fi trap" anyways lol. What a lousy name.

hey!! i love Fe people.

[aestrivex]

SEI definitely makes sense.

[Expat]

Sorry, I'm rather sure of ESFp.

And I think you shouldn't be so sure

1)A clear enneagram 7
2)Too active for being an introvert

These two items amount to the same thing, don't they? Because she goes out all the time? What counts is whether she takes the initiative in activities where others are involved; that is not clear from the description.

3)ENTps are NOT passive

That's the best argument against ISFp; but rather than "passive" perhaps what vague described is best called "putting up with nonsense".

Anything else you can tell us, vague?

4)Doesn't like depending on her parents, doesn't want to admit being wrong

"Doesn't want to admit being wrong" - it happens with of Ti>Te with Te PoLR. A lot of ISFps are like that - my father, too.

"Doesn't like depending on her parents" -- that's your interpretation of her motivations, or her true motivations? If she left because she felt bad in the Fe environment there (for whatever reason or non-reason), that would be enough.

5)Common charateristics between ISFp and ESFp doesn't mean that the person is ISFp

This arguments goes both ways, you know. So it doesn't mean that she is ESFp either.

And you haven't answered what kind of Se EP would be so non-argumentative and passive-aggressive.

[Expat]

I considered ISFp for a long time but had doubts because she can be quite tactless at times. Plus most of the issues I criticize her on are Fe-issues and how she treats other people. Then again, she could just be a really bitchy Fe type. =p I also considered ISFp because we are similar in a lot of ways except we have very different ideas on ethical behavior and she’s a clear negativist, I’m a clear positivist. I had doubts about this typing because she’s far more active and stubborn than the ISFps I have experienced.

ISFps can be stubborn in the sense of not wanting to admit they are wrong - Ti HA with Te PoLR. Yes that would apply to INFps too but, as we all know, people aren't all the same. I'm just explain why those ISFps that are stubburn are stubborn.

As for the lack of tact -- that comes from using Fe to optimize her own Si in a clumsy way. That is, she knows how to use Fe to make her feel better but she isn't aware yet of the effect this has on others sometimes.

I hadn’t considered ESFp yet but that also could fit. I had categorized her tendency to pleasure-seek as an indication of alpha, but ESFps often display this too. She is incredibly stubborn and does try to dominate people and situations as well, although it is always in a passive-aggressive way. Plus, her dislike of debates/abstract issues could perhaps indicate poLR --poor ability to explain herself so she doesn't even bother? [although she might just plain out not be interested.]

Thanks for trying, folks. At least I've got it narrowed down to ESFp and ISFp.

ESFps don't back off from debates, only they use rather than or or . If she's so clearly negativist, that's an indication of ISFp rather than ESFp, but it's not conclusive.

Some questions that might help --

- when she does ask you (or someone) for advice or information, does she prefer a direct, "that's what you should do" or she'd rather be given all the facts so that she can make the decision herself?
- is she receptive to being warned (as I guess you would) of the consequences of her actions, "if you do that, that may happen, so beware", or she dislikes that intensively?

[vague]

SEI seems more likely after considering those points.

Her reasons for leaving the house were Fe-related, [parents attempted to crack down on her going out since she frequently came home sloppy drunk. She was upset at their attempts to confine her, believing that she is at the age where she is supposed to be out having fun, thus she would sneak out, causing our parents to have to set up alarms on the doors/windows. After that, she was pretty much always in a hostile mood toward them, going so far as to ask them for emancipation. ]

is she receptive to being warned (as I guess you would) of the consequences of her actions, "if you do that, that may happen, so beware", or she dislikes that intensively?

She seems in need of some Ni but no, she doesn’t seem very receptive to it and can react with hostility towards critisisms/warnings about her behavior.

-when she does ask you (or someone) for advice or information, does she prefer a direct, "that's what you should do" or she'd rather be given all the facts so that she can make the decision herself?

Hard to say, she seems adverse to advice. She usually already knows how she wants to handle something and merely calls on other people to provide her with the aid/tools needed to do it. Then again, she's probably different around friends. I do not really see this side of her.

I think SEI is a good bet.

Again, thanks for the input.

Jesus. I just re-read the thread and it sounds so negative. She has her positive traits too! They just aren't very helpful for typing.

[Raver]

SEI is my first impression.

Yes.

A clear SEI in my opinion.

And no, not because all bad people are Fe. She's spoiled and immature, apart from her type, but her type is also visible.

Yes, a lot of her traits are uncannily reminiscient of SEIs I know in real life as I will demonstrate below in a few excerpts.

-Comes across as quiet but has a large social group and is almost always out and about; doesn't like to stay home. In interactions, she is playfully sarcastic and lets others do most of the talking. She doesn’t like debating or engaging in abstract conversations [although she is interested in abstract subjects. Especially religion, though she does not practice]. She most enjoys talking about what is going on in the personal life of herself and others.

This come across of as very SEI! They are introverts and very quiet for that reason, but enables them to make friends easily and people will confuse them for extraverts. I've tried debating in abstracting conversations with SEIs, but they usually ignore me.

-When it comes to problems, she exaggerates a lot, giving performances worthy of oscars. She seems a bit manipulative in this aspect;

This sounds like to me because of her ability to use her emotions to exaggerate the situation.

She will not actively engage in conflict. Instead, she takes a passive-aggressive route, resorting to silent treatments until she get what she wants.

If they are enraged by you or annoyed, they will completely ignore you as if you don't exist. Their mood dictates what they do and can come across off as extremely happy or angered on random occasions.

She turned 18 a few months ago and insisted on moving out of our parents house immediately, despite the fact that she only has a part time job which is barely enough to cover rent. She is struggling financially and has had to borrow money from friends and our brother on numerous occasions.

If this is not an example of PoLR, I don't know what is.

[XoX]

That is, she knows how to use Fe to make her feel better but she isn't aware yet of the effect this has on others sometimes.

What do you mean by "yet"?

[Kim]

She seems in need of some Ni but no, she doesn’t seem very receptive to it and can react with hostility towards critisisms/warnings about her behavior.

My first guess, after reading the first description, was INTp. I think you are describing above is not necessarily a lack of Ni, but rather an unwillingness to take criticism. INTps criticize everyone and everything, but they cannot take criticism very well. And Ni-dominants are not necessarily better at making decisions than other types. The negativity, sulking, and passive aggressiveness are MUCH more INTp than ESFp. ESFps have tons of , remember? They will be openly hostile at the dinner table, but not act that outrageously idiotic.

I don't know enough about ISFps to comment on that suggestion, but to me she sounds like an immature INTp. She reminds me of my ex when he was that age.

[Joy]

No, I did not say Fe > Fi because she's immature. She doesn't sound Se dominant to me. I don't think of ESFps as being all that passive aggressive.

The restaurant scene made me think ISFp because it seemed to make sense... not sure why... and it's not negative Fe stereotyping. Maybe her boyfriend responds well to that kind of stuff (it worked, didn't it?). Maybe she had a damn good reason for disliking his friend and not wanting him to go. Who knows. I have not known any ISFps well though, so I didn't feel confident with this suggestion. Also... The part about relationships sounded Fi PoLR to me, at least the way I read it. And no, I'm not glorifying Fi.

[Expat]

That is, she knows how to use Fe to make her feel better but she isn't aware yet of the effect this has on others sometimes.

What do you mean by "yet"?

I mean that hopefully she will learn to pay attention to the effect on others.

[XoX]

That is, she knows how to use Fe to make her feel better but she isn't aware yet of the effect this has on others sometimes.

What do you mean by "yet"?

I mean that hopefully she will learn to pay attention to the effect on others.

as in like when she gets a bit older?

[Rocky]

what Fe>Fi trap? i see only very minimal Fe in that description.

Well the thing that Fe people are unstable, exaggerating and manipulative bitches and Fi people are stable, ethical and so on. Generally the idea that Alpha and Beta do all the bitchy things and Gamma and Delta keep the society together. So whenever there is a description of a somewhat unstable and dramatic person -> has to be Fe quadra.

However the description sounds like something Sycophant could do (assuming here she is ILI). I'm not sure why I called the idea a "Fe>Fi trap" anyways lol. What a lousy name.

Terribally untrue.

[vague]

Allow me to hold both of your hands through the process of reading context clues. =p

XoX--yes. generally maturity comes with getting older.

Rocky--I believe XoX was being tongue-in-cheek.

Kim, those are good points. You're definitley right about not using people's decisions as a way of gouging Ni.