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Thread: What is Ne?

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    Default What is Ne?

    I was wondering if a Ne dominant person might describe Ne for me.

    In my case Ne is a mass of potential. I tend to measure people and objects and situations one versus the other and see which one surpases the other. Otherwise Ne tends to be rather undifferentiated.
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    Ne is to take an information element, decompose it into properties, create a list of such properties and store it with other information elements that share a property.

    This way Ne makes associations which are un-obvious. It is only limited by previous perceptions.



    It is similar to pixel maps and vector graphics. Intuitives do not remember details about the world; they are impressionistic. Only the essence is stored and when an intutive tries to remember, it rebuilds the object from the list of stored properties. That's why intutuitives sometimes re-create bizarre objects by interpreting wrongly such lists or by forgetting a part of such list.
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    How does the potential of things appear to you?

    In my case is in the form of weight.

    Also, I thought that the essence of things was Ni rather than Ne. I thought that Ne grasps the whole, including details. My father for instance can enter a room and immediately notices details, even if you are hiding them from him. For instance sometime I fold his books while reading them, which he disapproves of, and he notices them right away although they may be in the background.
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    Probably because you are causing disharmony in his environment. He has certain items of interest/importance that he takes note of, which he is comfortable with, and does not want to be changed.

    For me, I note the placement of my desk and stack of cd cases. I get very uncomfortable if they are moved and not put back how I had it.

    As far as walking in a room and noticing details. I usually won't notice something unless its something that sticks out or seems interesting. Usually it is something no one else notices, or I point out a new way at looking at the detail.
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    Ne is like juggling 10 separate idea balls in the air. None of them seem to be related. You juggle these balls and start to notice properties they have that they have in common or are similar. You put the balls down on a table and describe the connections between them and their similar properties.

    If you are Ti then you analyze and come up with creative ideas on what could be done with, say, 3 or 4 of your balls.

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    Ne is open ended belief, much like the butterfly-effect where cause and effect relationships rule without logic and anything is thought to be potentially possible.

    Ni is contrastly closed ended and values making predictability possible, whereas Ne values not predictability, but possibility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    How does the potential of things appear to you?
    Like all extroverted functions, Ne is not self sustained. It must pass its perceptions to an introverted function in order to extract anything useful from them. For this reason, I don't think Ne handles alone the potential.

    My hypothesis is that Ne transfers the "flashes" to Ni and Ni uses Te and Fe to subconciously produce the possibilities. This might explain why Ne types don't know how they came up with some ideas; Ni, Te and Fe are unconcious.

    Also, the inventive nature that makes Ne types famous is oriented toward making things better or more efficient. This suggest that is Te and not Ti what is involved in the process, because Te is relevance logic.
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    Default Re: What is Ne?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    I was wondering if a Ne dominant person might describe Ne for me.
    Well here is one long Ne-description from a Ne-dominant:
    http://www.socionics.us/theory/bi.shtml

    not quite what you asked for but I posted it anyways because I like it.

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    Ne is completely unrestrained wandering. It is like a fire spreading, different things catch at different time, and there are interesting relationships and patterns as such. (that might be Ti seeing Ne).

    But to me, Ne is this huge, perspectively immense and adaptable level of awareness. I have a harder time comprehending what Ni really is. Trying to compere the too is interesting.


    I still like the description of 'intrasystem comparing' and 'inter-system comparing' -- Ne being 'inter', between systems. Ne allows for comparing all sorts of anything. Ne allows you to find, quite easily, a connection between any two or more things

    Ne, IMO, is also more future orientated, more dynamic
    Ni is more static, and more looking at what already has happened, (think INTp critic).


    (note -- those are my own uses of "static" and "dynamic", not necessarily the common linguo here)
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III

    Ne, IMO, is also more future orientated, more dynamic
    Ni is more static, and more looking at what already has happened, (think INTp critic).


    (note -- those are my own uses of "static" and "dynamic", not necessarily the common linguo here)
    ????

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    Aren't EPs and IJs "static" and EJs and IPs "dynamic" ?

    Yet I called Ne 'more dynamic'
    and Ni 'more static'


    and so on....
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III
    Ne, IMO, is also more future orientated, more dynamic
    Ni is more static, and more looking at what already has happened, (think INTp critic).

    (note -- those are my own uses of "static" and "dynamic", not necessarily the common linguo here)
    Ni is about causal relations in time.

    So when Ne type says "I want to pursue X because there is great potential in it" Ni type might answer "Since Y has already happened it is highly unlikely that X's potential could still be realized". So where Ne looks at "theoretical potential" Ni takes into account past events which have causal relations with the fulfillment of theoretical potential. Essentially limiting the options to those with highest probability to succeed in the future.

    Problem with Ne>Ni is lack of understanding/appreciation for real world restrictions to realization of potential. Problem with Ni>Ne is lack of appreciation for / belief in revolutionary changes (which are not probable but still occasionally happen).

    Now does that make Ni more static or not? It is static in the sense that it is not trying to pursue everything but tries to stick with what is realistically achievable. However it is dynamic in the sense that it takes into account the surrounding processes affecting the realization of the idea under evaluation and doesn't focus only on the idea itself like Ne. Ne sort of works in a world where there are no dynamic processes restricting it hence it is static. It works in a static world where time has stopped and only ideas remain.

    You can also see Ne as a trendsetter and Ni as a trendspotter but this is not that much related to the previous stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Now does that make Ni more static or not? It is static in the sense that it is not trying to pursue everything but tries to stick with what is realistically achievable. However it is dynamic in the sense that it takes into account the surrounding processes affecting the realization of the idea under evaluation and doesn't focus only on the idea itself like Ne. Ne sort of works in a world where there are no dynamic processes restricting it hence it is static. It works in a static world where time has stopped and only ideas remain.

    You can also see Ne as a trendsetter and Ni as a trendspotter but this is not that much related to the previous stuff.
    Sounds more like than
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III
    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Now does that make Ni more static or not? It is static in the sense that it is not trying to pursue everything but tries to stick with what is realistically achievable. However it is dynamic in the sense that it takes into account the surrounding processes affecting the realization of the idea under evaluation and doesn't focus only on the idea itself like Ne. Ne sort of works in a world where there are no dynamic processes restricting it hence it is static. It works in a static world where time has stopped and only ideas remain.

    You can also see Ne as a trendsetter and Ni as a trendspotter but this is not that much related to the previous stuff.
    Sounds more like than
    Well ok..the bolded part perhaps more Ni with Te. I'm not sure how Ni manifests differently with Fe...hard to grasp...I guess I'm not Ni with Fe then

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    ur mom
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clover
    ur mom
    >:[

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    Funny thing is i dont actually have a clue what Ne is. I cant really even visualise it or comprehend it. I suppose my Ne is accepting not creating. All i know is i need constant information. Im basically learning all the time. I rarely switch off even when i watch tv etc im watching how people move and react etc. Sometimes i just get a flurry of ideas

    Being observent i think is more of a Sensing trait. I didn't even notice that my mum changed my curtians for about two days lol...

    I suppose as NeFi my Ne pulls information primarily about peoples emotions? When i meet a new person i get very strong vibes about them. I can generally accurately guess what will make them laugh, what they wont want to hear, what hang ups they might have, how to approach them, what body language to use, what level of confidence they have etc.

    That being said people ALWAYS suprise me. I notice little flickers in them. For instance, confidence that they dont always show. I think thats what being an ENFp is, the potentialities of people..

    Sorry i went off on a tangent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger
    Funny thing is i dont actually have a clue what Ne is. I cant really even visualise it or comprehend it. I suppose my Ne is accepting not creating. All i know is i need constant information. Im basically learning all the time. I rarely switch off even when i watch tv etc im watching how people move and react etc. Sometimes i just get a flurry of ideas

    Being observent i think is more of a Sensing trait. I didn't even notice that my mum changed my curtians for about two days lol...

    I suppose as NeFi my Ne pulls information primarily about peoples emotions? When i meet a new person i get very strong vibes about them. I can generally accurately guess what will make them laugh, what they wont want to hear, what hang ups they might have, how to approach them, what body language to use, what level of confidence they have etc.
    That being said people ALWAYS suprise me. I notice little flickers in them. For instance, confidence that they dont always show. I think thats what being an ENFp is, the potentialities of people..

    Sorry i went off on a tangent.
    This is quite brilliant, so how do you organize that info in your head if I may ask?

    Ni is a movie by the way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    so how do you organize that info in your head if I may ask?
    Ni is a movie by the way.
    I dont know LOL. You probablly need an Ti type to explain that. I probablly made it sound more amazing than it is hehe. I suppose i keep a little filing cabinet in my head of everyone i meet but the filing cabinet is strewn across my brain. Ne seems to be able to gather information incredibly quickly. I will often notice almost imperceptible blinks and movements in a person and then Ne will give me ideas about what those movements mean.

    As you can probablly tell i really dont have a clue about how it works POLR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger
    Funny thing is i dont actually have a clue what Ne is. I cant really even visualise it or comprehend it. I suppose my Ne is accepting not creating. All i know is i need constant information. Im basically learning all the time. I rarely switch off even when i watch tv etc im watching how people move and react etc. Sometimes i just get a flurry of ideas

    Being observent i think is more of a Sensing trait. I didn't even notice that my mum changed my curtians for about two days lol...

    I suppose as NeFi my Ne pulls information primarily about peoples emotions? When i meet a new person i get very strong vibes about them. I can generally accurately guess what will make them laugh, what they wont want to hear, what hang ups they might have, how to approach them, what body language to use, what level of confidence they have etc.
    That being said people ALWAYS suprise me. I notice little flickers in them. For instance, confidence that they dont always show. I think thats what being an ENFp is, the potentialities of people..

    Sorry i went off on a tangent.
    This is quite brilliant, so how do you organize that info in your head if I may ask?

    Ni is a movie by the way.
    I thought I'd say, for comparison, what happens when I meet people and measure them up. Ni kinda is a movie - I constantly see the next move on the other person. At first, I look at their body language and I'll see who they are as one whole image. I have no idea what makes them laugh, what they don't want to hear, how to approach them... I do, however, know their confidence level, how sociable they are, how serious they are, and other things that are constant. The dynamic things come later. Everyone sees a general polite version of me in the beginning, but then I will learn which body language works best for them, because I try out different body language and see which one works. I don't know what makes them laugh, but when I'm telling a joke, I usually know if they'll laugh, before I even finish the joke. I don't know what kind of subjects they dislike, but when I mention a keyword of one of those subjects, I'll notice the reaction from the smallest flicker in their eyebrow movement.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    How does the potential of things appear to you?

    In my case is in the form of weight.

    Also, I thought that the essence of things was Ni rather than Ne. I thought that Ne grasps the whole, including details. My father for instance can enter a room and immediately notices details, even if you are hiding them from him. For instance sometime I fold his books while reading them, which he disapproves of, and he notices them right away although they may be in the background.
    Degrees of freedom visualized as solids or as an animation that defines the solid with its tracers, or the sum of capabilities in order to derive other capabilities, similar to a rube Goldberg contraption.
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    What a great replacement for a nany

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    I was wondering if a Ne dominant person might describe Ne for me.
    Hard to know what to describe. I consider myself a thinker but when i examine my own "thinking process" it is never at the cutting edge of a new idea or any idea in that case. The ideas come whole and in an instant, they are not dependent on procedural/algorithmic thought as might be expected from type. In my case the "thinking" comes later where i use to see if the idea can be "justified" or made consistent on some sort of non-arbitrary basis.

    Ideas can come at any time. They are usually in the areas that i have concerns/interest in, but this need not be the case, they can be about anything ... often they are triggered by direct observable circumstances eg. someones body language or words or interactions etc. Other times its a sort of "aha" idea resulting from unrelated ideas purely in my memories.


    Sometimes for instance after a period of concentrated work i will just stand up from my seat and for a few seconds just simply stand still and absorb my environment in an undifferentiated manner (sights & sounds usually). I deliberately will choose not focus on any particular event. These impressions combined with my own memories / goals will often suggest a course of action .... eg. to approach someone with an idea / proposal etc ..... the process seems pretty "random" & "quick but usually there is an underlying logic even though it may not seem that way to others. Ofcourse there are risks, mainly on two grounds [1] Sometimes too much is projected from too little. [2] Some people are just simply not receptive to considering sudden shifts of this nature...... These days i "move faster & go further" when i "slow down"
    ILE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    I don't know what kind of subjects they dislike, but when I mention a keyword of one of those subjects, I'll notice the reaction from the smallest flicker in their eyebrow movement.
    I think you described it far better than me. Mine was a little hasty. Judging what will make them laugh / what they wont want to hear happens in a form of information gathering that Kristiina described. Unless im having an educated guess. Basically you can tell what humour / conversation someone may respond to by observing how emotionally expressive they are etc.

    I think all people, feelers in particular possess these abilities in some form or another. Im not sure how + does it in comparison to other types. I did notice that ENFj's can read my emotions very well. For example on the day i was giving in my resignation at my last job, my ENFj boss saw me glimpse at the Meeting room. She asked me if i wanted to have a meeting. When we sat down she said "this isn't going to be good is it?". She knew, and i knew she knew that i was going to resign lol. She may have even picked up something in my behaviours leading up until then.

    I suppose then my description isn't very helpful lol. I have probablly described feeling or possibly intuition with feeling
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    What I think is Ne is how I'm always looking for something new. Like if it's time to cook, I don't just want to cook dinner, I want to find some new and exciting recipe I haven't tried before. And maybe it'll use some odd exotic ingredient I'll have to search around for. If I go to the library, I don't just pick up a book by an author I know, I research a bit and try to find a new author - maybe even a new genre to try out. It is kind of like a constant sense of exploration.
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    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

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    It sounds like and have at least a lot in common until they decide on how to approach a possibility and to use it.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    -- Mark Twain

    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slava2
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    How does the potential of things appear to you?

    In my case is in the form of weight.

    Also, I thought that the essence of things was Ni rather than Ne. I thought that Ne grasps the whole, including details. My father for instance can enter a room and immediately notices details, even if you are hiding them from him. For instance sometime I fold his books while reading them, which he disapproves of, and he notices them right away although they may be in the background.
    Degrees of freedom visualized as solids or as an animation that defines the solid with its tracers, or the sum of capabilities in order to derive other capabilities, similar to a rube Goldberg contraption.
    Ah now I see... thank you Diocletian, you have revealed to me what is: the contrast of energy levels against their maximum.

    I'd also like to make a point about as mikemex described it. The definition she gives is good from an information metabolism perspective... but those are not its only incarnations. It can also be released: that is, the properties observed from the decomposition of the original idea may be reconstructed later.

    It seems to me that the three forms of work in concert:
    - producing deconstructs the perception of an object (or more often, objects) and experiences, from a subjective standpoint, the confluence of all of these objects together. This generates a possibility.
    - releasing reconstructs the deconstructed information en mass, producing an observable convergence of the objects together into a single coherent "universe" that others may witness.
    - accepting witnesses released information confluences and breaks them down into their composite information elements. This is where the metaphors take place (although producing also accomplishes this by virtue of its deconstruction of the objects.) The difference is what happens to the information: producing seals the information it observes within the objects themselves, whereas accepting receives the information from the objects.

    I can't explain how the sealing process occurs... it seem to me an phenomenon. I can only say that a potential, once sealed by , cannot be realized unless it is released by reconstructive .

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    Grasp an object/concept/idea...
    Notice its discrete relationships (this object/concept/idea is related to X, to Y, to Z, to A by way of C, to A by way of D, etc)..
    and you have the static types.

    Focus on the implied aspects of the concept/idea while also detaching your sensory perceptions to perceive the concept/idea, and you have Ne.

    Focus on the explicit aspects of the object while also utilizing your personal sensory organs to perceive the object, and you have Se.

    So basically, Ne deals with whole undivided implied concepts/ideas and the individual relationships it may or may not have with other whole undivided implied concepts/ideas. This can be interpreted as "possibilities".

    Examples:
    Slacker Mom said:
    What I think is Ne is how I'm always looking for something new. Like if it's time to cook, I don't just want to cook dinner, I want to find some new and exciting recipe I haven't tried before. And maybe it'll use some odd exotic ingredient I'll have to search around for. If I go to the library, I don't just pick up a book by an author I know, I research a bit and try to find a new author - maybe even a new genre to try out. It is kind of like a constant sense of exploration.
    concept/idea = cooking; meal preparation (Ne)
    this is not an object we can look at or use our sensory perceptions to perceive it (yes, we can see the individual actions, but those individual actions are NOT the concept of cooking)

    object = the chicken in the freezer (Se)

    discrete relationships =
    ** recipes are explicit rules of interdependencies and interactions between the various food products being used (Ti)
    ** which recipe? basing the answer to this based on personalized relationships between self and author, self and recipe, and desires of self or those cooking for. (Fi)


    If her focus is on "I have a chicken in the freezer, I wonder what I can do with it", she'd be showing signs of SeXi. (object = chicken; creating relationships to chicken).

    If her focus is on what recipe/skills she has and purchases a chicken to use those skills on, she'd be showing signs of XiSe (accepting relationships of recipe/skills/preferences; creating object=grilled chicken).

    If her focus is on what recipe/skills she wants to use in her cooking tonight, she'd be showing signs of XiNe (accepting relationships of recipe/skills/preferences; creating concept=cooking dinner tonight).

    But according to what she wrote, her focus is on cooking tonight, and what recipe/skills will be related to this effort....she's showing signs of NeXi (concept=cooking tonight; creating relationships to dinner)

    Note: one or relatively few usages of any of the above does not a type make.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

  29. #29
    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
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    This thread is Ne.

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    Dioklecian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slava2
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    How does the potential of things appear to you?

    In my case is in the form of weight.

    Also, I thought that the essence of things was Ni rather than Ne. I thought that Ne grasps the whole, including details. My father for instance can enter a room and immediately notices details, even if you are hiding them from him. For instance sometime I fold his books while reading them, which he disapproves of, and he notices them right away although they may be in the background.
    Degrees of freedom visualized as solids or as an animation that defines the solid with its tracers, or the sum of capabilities in order to derive other capabilities, similar to a rube Goldberg contraption.
    Thats' way over my head Slava, could you describe it differently?
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Quote Originally Posted by Slava2
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    How does the potential of things appear to you?

    In my case is in the form of weight.

    Also, I thought that the essence of things was Ni rather than Ne. I thought that Ne grasps the whole, including details. My father for instance can enter a room and immediately notices details, even if you are hiding them from him. For instance sometime I fold his books while reading them, which he disapproves of, and he notices them right away although they may be in the background.
    Degrees of freedom visualized as solids or as an animation that defines the solid with its tracers, or the sum of capabilities in order to derive other capabilities, similar to a rube Goldberg contraption.
    Ah now I see... thank you Diocletian, you have revealed to me what is: the contrast of energy levels against their maximum.

    I'd also like to make a point about as mikemex described it. The definition she gives is good from an information metabolism perspective... but those are not its only incarnations. It can also be released: that is, the properties observed from the decomposition of the original idea may be reconstructed later.

    It seems to me that the three forms of work in concert:
    - producing deconstructs the perception of an object (or more often, objects) and experiences, from a subjective standpoint, the confluence of all of these objects together. This generates a possibility.
    - releasing reconstructs the deconstructed information en mass, producing an observable convergence of the objects together into a single coherent "universe" that others may witness.
    - accepting witnesses released information confluences and breaks them down into their composite information elements. This is where the metaphors take place (although producing also accomplishes this by virtue of its deconstruction of the objects.) The difference is what happens to the information: producing seals the information it observes within the objects themselves, whereas accepting receives the information from the objects.

    I can't explain how the sealing process occurs... it seem to me an phenomenon. I can only say that a potential, once sealed by , cannot be realized unless it is released by reconstructive .
    Could you explai nthat to me?
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Ni is being aware of consequences of actions
    Ne is being aware of (similarities and differences in) abstract qualities of objects

    or something

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    Dioklecian's Avatar
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    I was wondering if you guys could eplain your points.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Ni is being aware of consequences of actions
    Ne is being aware of (similarities and differences in) abstract qualities of objects
    To open that up a bit. Ni would be e.g. perceiving that event A and event B are related and together will eventually lead to event C. Thus "intuition of time" i.e. Ni can see how events are related and how the consequences of those events develop in time.

    Ne would be...well being able to think with abstract concepts basically. Where Se perceives concrete qualities of objects like size, shape, colour etc Ne perceives their abstract qualities and can see similarities and differences between abstract objects and form and name new abstract objects and concepts which cannot be found in physical world. They only exist in abstract world. These abstract objects can then be used to describe the world in a higher level of abstraction. This description of Ne is probably somehow related to Ti because Ti is used when creating these kind of "systems of abstract objects". Related to this I'm not quite sure what difference there is with abstraction and generalization.

    Ok, if I'm terribly wrong here I want someone to correct me. I'm a bit unsure about the details of the Ne description.

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    Thank you Xox, I think your comments are correct.

    Also, Slava, TC, please clarify your statements please. I really don't understand to what you refer.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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