INTj & Pleasure/Hedonism

[UDP]

Discuss.


I have never legitimately gone through with it, but I think I am going to try to remove as many sources of pleasure as possible. It gets in the way. To clarify, pleasure in a negative sense: putting music on when you work - something small, but I realize how much it distracts me now. I cannot focus 100%.

Furthermore, hedonism corrupts at its core.
If you put simplistic pleasure above what you know you should be doing, you create psychological suffering. Hopefully by addressing this issue, for me, upfront, I can call it out and deal with it proactively instead of being a pussy about it.



What are your thoughts?

[UDP]

PS: also, being raised with several caregivers, I think I have subconsciously molded myself into certain habits, which really aren't me, in terms of catering to an Fe/Si atmosphere. I wonder if I try to supplement that for myself when alpha SFs aren't around to do it for me --- and I think this causes psychological stress.

I am all for personal growth, and leadership, but this is something else. This is.... a matter of me really being sincere to myself.

[Elro]

I am all for personal growth, and leadership, but this is something else. This is.... a matter of me really being sincere to myself.

Devil's advocate: Aren't asceticism and being sincere to oneself polar opposites? -Dr. Evil pinky-

[FDG]

You're bullshitting. Everything in moderation is nondangerous.

[UDP]

I am all for personal growth, and leadership, but this is something else. This is.... a matter of me really being sincere to myself.

Devil's advocate: Aren't asceticism and being sincere to oneself polar opposites? -Dr. Evil pinky-

Can you avoid the reality of your leading function?

[UDP]

You're bullshitting. Everything in moderation is nondangerous.

The point is that Ti must be a higher priority and respected as a higher priority than Si.
I'm not saying remove Si from your life, any source of pleasure, no. But I am doing a 2 week experiment to see if I "feel better" focusing more on Ti.

You can even go so far to say, FDG, that in fact my Si IS out of balance, but not necessarily because "hedonism is bad".... when really, MY (LII) Si ultimately comes through the core, through leading function.

So by acting in a way that complies with core, making those choices, then I can have legitimate Si. Trying to enjoy things or pleasure without respecting the dominant function is a set up for psychological pain, it seems.



Hmm...
So for example, that would be like you, FDG, no being able to enjoy if people were bossing you around all day whilst working, or if you cops had to do an investigation on you for no apparent reason - -- you could still enjoy Si and happiness by relaxing or biking, or whatever ... but because your leading function was not being properly respected, it would not be legitimate Si so long as you still had that bad job, or had to deal with that investigation, etc.

Or for an ENTp,
it would be trying to relax by doing something boring...
or really, if an ENTp's life was absolutely contained and nothing new or exciting ever happened, no possibility ----- and then being told to just sit down and read, etc. That wouldn't work.




That may be a more accurate way to look at this matter.[/i]

[Jonathan]

Discuss.


I have never legitimately gone through with it, but I think I am going to try to remove as many sources of pleasure as possible. It gets in the way. To clarify, pleasure in a negative sense: putting music on when you work - something small, but I realize how much it distracts me now. I cannot focus 100%.

Furthermore, hedonism corrupts at its core.
If you put simplistic pleasure above what you know you should be doing, you create psychological suffering. Hopefully by addressing this issue, for me, upfront, I can call it out and deal with it proactively instead of being a pussy about it.



What are your thoughts?

It makes sense, but just as an alternative idea, do you think perhaps that you need to reinforce in some way, and maybe gets in the way of that?

[eunice]

I realized that INTjs become hedonistic when they are under stress. When under stress, an INTj friend of mine would end up watching a lot of TV and surfing the net to read more information about the serial dramas she is currently watching. Such behaviour really scares me 'cos it is not what I will expect from an INTj.

[UDP]

both of the last two posts are relevant

[UDP]

Also, it you could trace the matter to polr.
If I was more comfortable with being 'certain' of some things, then it would be much easier.

I am recalling how INTJs like "well defined goals". Writting a list of objectives to do every day may help me stay focused and see things more clearly. So far the results are a sense of accomplisment....

Which further relates to , as Jonathan mentioned. By maping out the next day, as I did last night, with , it made me think about issues more --- how much time ought this take?


Perhaps I should try to simulate how I should best use each function the next day .... hmm.... I recall, during my initial days of the forum, someone saying how INTjs are like supercomputer robot people, and ESFjs are like emotional supercomputer robots. It really does seem the case, because if I "input" a program the day before, executing it the next day seems much more enjoyable than dealing with everything on the spot. ( polr).

....

Robesp'er feels itself defenseless in the situation of sudden volitional pressure. In this case it for itself frequently unexpectedly manifests the "unpardonable pliability", which it subsequently analyzes, trying to hence be farsighted and not to repeat similar errors.

Ah, everything makes much more sense now...



PS: The problem, of course, is that I've been a very shallow LII who has not yet grasped the value of planning out the day. For an LII especially, it is remarkably devastating to go back and forth between quadrants 1&4 of the time management matrix. The compilation effect builds, as spending time in q4 makes worse, and eventually forces more volitional situations (or general unpreparedness). Which leads to very bad q1 issues because spending time in q2 became inhibited. (I can see how an ESE dual would be very useful to LIIs in this regard, not only with their energy, but with their 'managment skills')

[Jonathan]

Your post resonates with the way I'm thinking right now. I tend to think that rather than being fixed in a given transaction (e.g. Ti->Ne with other functions having fixed roles as mainly subconscious function), in reality people change functional orientations as needed.

When I want to get out of a rut and do get something, I need to become Ti->Se. At that moment, I can notice myself being simultaneously EIE and LSI.

Of course, to a "real" LSI I probably still look like someone living in an Ni fantasy-land, but the point is, "becoming" LSI/EIE in some manner helps me get done what I need to. It puts my focus on getting focused and accomplishing the task.

[science as magic]

i think it is very important to do this udp esp for you right now because you sound sort of depressed or something. right now i am very esxj workaholicky about to collapse full of cheer? try it.

[UDP]

i think it is very important to do this udp esp for you right now because you sound sort of depressed or something. right now i am very esxj workaholicky about to collapse full of cheer? try it.

Uh, I do not understand the first part of that sentence. esp?

Anyway, it is interesting because I heard a likely Exxj talking about how she prefers ("needs", she actually said) "...to be so busy she doesn't have time to think", .... and see myself leaning in that direction as well.

I am not 'depressed', I am breaking new boundries and expanding, and seeing how incompetent I am in some areas causes dissapointment, but it really is room for improvment, etc. I need to have the equal and opposite reactions, so that when I make progress I can see how far I've come, or at least that is how I understand it for now.

Yes... 'being so busy I don't have time to think' might actually be just what I need.

[science as magic]

esp = especially

I am not 'depressed', I am breaking new boundries and expanding, and seeing how incompetent I am in some areas causes dissapointment, but it really is room for improvment, etc. I need to have the equal and opposite reactions, so that when I make progress I can see how far I've come, or at least that is how I understand it for now.

glad to hear! sorry i don't mean to be all preachy or whatever but you just seem to convey this like "i'm stuck in my room" ? thing. for example i don't think you need to find the perfect career for you or the best this or greatest that you just need a change of pace? don't try and find someplace where you will "fit" perfectly because it doesn't exist? just learn to become more adaptable and you won't have any problems. hope that doesn't sound arrogant or shitty or whatever because it is not intended that way

ok i'm done

/end enfp

(hah!)

[UDP]

[Verse 1]
They told me I would never make it, I would never achieve it
Reality is nourishment, but people don't believe it
I guess its hard to stomach the truth like a bulimick
its a dirty game and nobody is willing to clean it
But this is for the paraplegics, people dreamin' of runnin'
ladies married to men who don't please 'em, dreamin' of comin'
urbanly murderous like David Berkowitz when I'm gunnin'
Some cowards on the internet didn't think I would sell
scared to talk shit in person, cuz they stuck in a shell
and couldn't understand the pain of being stuck in a cell
Hell is not a place you go, if you not a Christian
it's the failure of your life's greatest ambition
It's a bad decision to blindly follow any religion
I don't see the difference in between the raw and the wrong
Soldiers emptying the clips at little kids and they moms
I'm just like a desperate motherfucker strapped to a bomb
Humanity is gone, smoked up in a gravity bong
by a democrat republican Cheech and Chong
Immortal Technique, you never heard me preachin' a song
I'm not controversial, I'm just speakin' the facts
Put your hands in the air like you got the heat to your back
and shake your body like a baby born addicted to crack
And since life is a gamble like the crabstables at Vegas
I freestyle my destiny, it's not written in pages

[Verse 2]
I hate it when they tell us how far we came to be
as if our peoples history started with slavery
Painfully I discovered the shit they kept us secret
this is the exodus like the black jews out of Egypt
I keep it reality based wit the music I make
brought the truth to your face with the style I run wit
like the navy missile that shot down flight eighthundred
I'm like the africans who came here before Colombus
and from the 15hundreds until after the model
I watch Latin America get raped in the sorrow
You see the spanjards never left Espace the Cologne
and if you don't believe me, you can click on Uni Mission
I never seen so much racism in all of my life
every program and newscast, all of them white
It's like a part tide with 10 percent ruling the rest
that type of stress 'll make me put the fucking tool to your chest
Step in my way nigga, I wouldn't wanna be ya
I burn slow like (a) pissing drunk with gonorrhea
I'll do a freak show in North Korea, burning the flag
while Jay Edgar Hoover politicians dress up in drag
Try to confuse you, makin' it hard to follow this:
capitalism en democracy are not synonymous
You swallow propaganda like a birth control pill
sellin' your soul to the eye on the back of the dollar bill
But that will never be me, cuz I am leavin' the past
like an abused wife with the kids, leavin' your ass
Like a drug addict clean and sober, leavin' the stash
unbreakable Technique leavin' the plane crash
I'm out with the black box and I refuse to return
I spit reality, instead of what you usually learn
and I refuse to be concerned with condecending advice
cuz I am the only motherfucker that could change my life

[Ending]
Some people think I won't make it
but I know that I will
Escape the emptiness
cuz that shit is slow and it kills
the flow and the skill
I made y'all believe that it last
You can make the future
but it starts with LEAVING THE PAST

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcnM5b6dWjI[/youtube]

[machintruc]

Hedonism is probably related to his HA...

[Exodus]

i think it is very important to do this udp esp for you right now because you sound sort of depressed or something. right now i am very esxj workaholicky about to collapse full of cheer? try it.

I know this feeling. Cleaning one's room is an easy way to get it. You need some mindless re-organizing every once in a while. It's a hell of a lot better than lazing around, at least.

[Kirana]

I realized that INTjs become hedonistic when they are under stress. When under stress, an INTj friend of mine would end up watching a lot of TV and surfing the net to read more information about the serial dramas she is currently watching. Such behaviour really scares me 'cos it is not what I will expect from an INTj.

yes. and it's disturbing at one level, because i cannot really control this impulse even though i know the overindulgence in frivolity is destructive to my reasoning capacity. not to mention a futile activity, something i detest.

[ataronchronon]

I have an ongoing problem of having a terrible lack of meaningful things to do, so I fill in the time with meaningless frivolities and spending a lot of time on the internet. Doing this over the course of many years could have affected my ability to concentrate, but I'm not entirely sure if I had this problem before.

[astralsilky]

esp = especially

I am not 'depressed', I am breaking new boundries and expanding, and seeing how incompetent I am in some areas causes dissapointment, but it really is room for improvment, etc. I need to have the equal and opposite reactions, so that when I make progress I can see how far I've come, or at least that is how I understand it for now.

glad to hear! sorry i don't mean to be all preachy or whatever but you just seem to convey this like "i'm stuck in my room" ? thing. for example i don't think you need to find the perfect career for you or the best this or greatest that you just need a change of pace? don't try and find someplace where you will "fit" perfectly because it doesn't exist? just learn to become more adaptable and you won't have any problems. hope that doesn't sound arrogant or shitty or whatever because it is not intended that way

ok i'm done

/end enfp

(hah!)

You sound like an INFp to me.