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    Last edited by fever; 03-20-2009 at 01:21 AM.
    chilling out (and getting chilly) in the penalty box.

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    pezzonovante's Avatar
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    define stating emotions
    ENTj




    "A conscience does not prevent sin. It only prevents you from enjoying it..."

    "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible."
    - Thomas E Lawrence

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    Default Re: Fe

    Quote Originally Posted by fever
    is Fe about stating emotions as well as the display of emotions?
    extraverted ethics = internal dynamics of objects

    now try to interpret that. It means something like e.g. perceiving the emotional states (or perhaps emotional processes) of people/groups of people and applying own emotions to affect that state. Among other things.

    I think it is important to notice how
    extraverted logic = external dynamics of objects.

    I think this is why Te is better with machines because machines have well defined explicit external functions and Te is expert at grasping and utilizing them. Fe instead is, in a way, better with living things because they don't have explicit external functions but instead you have to "activate them inside" in a way. Use their internal and implicit functions to have an effect.

    It is not such accurate engineering as with Te and machines but more like a form of art. Searching for the internal "hidden" buttons of people and gently pushing them and seeing how this affects their external behavior and modeling their mental processes based on the responses (this is more Fe with Ni). Analogous how a Te-type would learn to use machines by pushing their external buttons and observing what reaction it causes.

    I guess this also explains why Fe types try to "feel" machines or understand them instead of just using them and Te types try to manage people like they were machines and get puzzled when they seem to act differently from what was expected.

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    Last edited by fever; 03-19-2009 at 07:54 PM.
    chilling out (and getting chilly) in the penalty box.

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    Depends on your reasons and purpose and whatnot.

    I generally have to be coerced into admitting my feelings and it's not uncommon for me to realize that I've been feeling sad or angry or whatever long after others would have. However, I prefer for other people to simply state what they think or feel about something. Demonstrations are entirely unnecessary (at best) for the most part (yes, there are occasional exceptions).
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    Creepy-Diana

    Default Re: Fe

    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by fever
    Quote Originally Posted by pezzonovante
    define stating emotions
    just freely stating what u feel or expressing yourself not necessarily with extravagant gestures or demonstration.
    When I state my emotions, and i'm an Fe type, I may not make gestures or anything but whether I'm conscious of it or not, in hindsight, I know that i'm doing it in a way to incite a response in another person - in other words i'm using my emotions to get someone else to do something for me - I suppose this is why Fe is often attributed with emotional manipulation - because it is. If i feel like shit and you consider yourself from my friend and you see that i feel like shit then you better fucking comfort me!!! lol
    when one of my friends feels like shit i'll often try to make them feel better by acting silly, hugging them till they suffocate, or profusely empathizing with their state to the point that we're feeling it together, which is better cuz misery loves company

    My INFj friend (Fi type), on the other hand will just state her emotions and she just wants to be listened to. giving her a hug isn't going to make her feel better because she doesn't necessarily want to feel better she wants to express what she's feeling. she reacts badly when she's interrupted in such situations, especially if people tell her what to do or that she has to do something because all she wants to do is express what she's feeling

    hope that helped
    INFp-Ni

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    escaping anndelise's Avatar
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    I know plenty of Fe types (ENFj and INFp) who do not "express" nor state their emotions. (I've yet to find an ESFj/ISFp who does not show his/her emotions as their feeling it.) Most of the F types I know, Fe AND Fi, do not do so well labeling their emotions. Labeling emotions is a learned thing.



    Emotions are vague impressions which may or not be labeled.
    The functions allow for vague impressions of discrete objects, or discrete relationships.

    Fe = the vague impressions of discrete objects, concepts, people, places, things

    Can be combined with
    • Si = the defined aspects of continuous relationships and interdependencies, or
    • Ni = the implicated aspects of continuous relationships and interdependencies

    (The biggest differences between Fe and Te is that while Te is aware of the "concrete" aspects of the objects, Fe is only aware of a vague impression of them. This might seem like it's biased towards Te, however, once it's realized that there are aspects to discrete objects (etc) which have not yet been defined, or are possibly indefinable, then Fe is shown to have some advantages over Te.

    People are complex systems, when dealing with them, if all you focus on are the aspects of them, their life, their communications, etc which are defined, then you are missing out on a lot of information. This can impede upon timely and efficient communications with them. Regardless of the involvement of other people, F functions can also aid in rapid problem solving, though with plenty of room for error and inability to communicate conclusions well. F = quality; T = quantity)
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    As I'm one of the few (proven) Fe dominants here in the forum, I should give my reply as well.

    misutii - I agree with what you said about the differences between INFp and INFj. I've noticed similar things. The weird thing... when I'm upset, I appreciate it when someone hugs me and is extra affectionate and friendly, but it doesn't really help me. What I expect from the other person is them telling me, "Nonsense!" and prove to me that all my problems are in my head and there's really nothing to worry about.

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    Emotions are vague impressions which may or not be labeled.
    The functions allow for vague impressions of discrete objects, or discrete relationships.

    Fe = the vague impressions of discrete objects, concepts, people, places, things
    This created a sort of self-revelation feeling for me. I always form an impression of all the scientific theories that I encounter and I'll remember the impressions. I'll also be able to use the theory by only using the impression.

    Good post, anndelise.

    And BTW, stating emotions is just a part of expressing emotions. Stating emotion always clarifies and enforces the emotion. Imagine two angry people - one's all red and hissing, the other one is red and hissing and then says, "I'm SO angry right now!". One is angry and will eventually cool down, the other one is trying to confront their anger. It's a different emotion behind those two reactions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina

    .......

    The weird thing... when I'm upset, I appreciate it when someone hugs me and is extra affectionate and friendly, but it doesn't really help me. What I expect from the other person is them telling me, "Nonsense!" and prove to me that all my problems are in my head and there's really nothing to worry about.

    ........
    now i remember one istj who often responds to other people's distress by saying they're worrying over nothing and it's all "rubbish!" i did not like his method of pacifying people but i could see how it might work in your instance .

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    Quote Originally Posted by stefana
    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina

    .......

    The weird thing... when I'm upset, I appreciate it when someone hugs me and is extra affectionate and friendly, but it doesn't really help me. What I expect from the other person is them telling me, "Nonsense!" and prove to me that all my problems are in my head and there's really nothing to worry about.

    ........
    now i remember one istj who often responds to other people's distress by saying they're worrying over nothing and it's all "rubbish!" i did not like his method of pacifying people but i could see how it might work in your instance .
    lol.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
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    I prefer people who simply state "This is pissing me off" or whatever without getting red and hissing or otherwise behaving embarrassingly. (Sullenness as an expression of anger or irritation doesn't bother me much though.)
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    Although I suppose there are times when it's good for someone to yell something brief or kick/throw something (without causing damage), but that should be pretty rare (or it would have no effectiveness).
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    misutti: I think you're very right about INFjs when they're upset.

    My INFj friend (Fi type), on the other hand will just state her emotions and she just wants to be listened to. giving her a hug isn't going to make her feel better because she doesn't necessarily want to feel better she wants to express what she's feeling. she reacts badly when she's interrupted in such situations, especially if people tell her what to do or that she has to do something because all she wants to do is express what she's feeling
    And I'm largely like that too, although I give extra points if the person fixes whatever problem is making me upset. Oh and I don't calmly "state my emotions".

    If people empathize with me too much I sometimes feel like they're being condescending and fake.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Wouldn't Te types, especially Te dominants, automatically start suggesting solutions though?
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    well usually my SiTe person just fixes it. The Ni people in my life are the ones who suggest how I should fix things. (both the TeNi and the FeNi)
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    oic

    like I've said, I have a hard time determining where Ni ends and Te begins (and vice versa)
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    yeah I edited that.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fever
    so my question is... from a Te and objective POV what should we pay attention to when trying to determine someone's type... their conscious blocks/mental track (1st and 2nd functions) or their id blocks/energy track (7th and 8th functions)?
    EGO and ID are both strong and even somewhat similar but there is a very big difference between super EGO and super ID. Super EGO is the worst thing ever, although a person can have quite a lot of respect for these functions. Super ID is rather weak and admired. Even if the descriptions are bad, a person should have extremely different opinions about super EGO and super ID functions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    As I'm one of the few (proven) Fe dominants here in the forum, I should give my reply as well.

    misutii - I agree with what you said about the differences between INFp and INFj. I've noticed similar things. The weird thing... when I'm upset, I appreciate it when someone hugs me and is extra affectionate and friendly, but it doesn't really help me. What I expect from the other person is them telling me, "Nonsense!" and prove to me that all my problems are in my head and there's really nothing to worry about.
    i totally agree with that too, i love when people tell me that there's nothing wrong and then convince me of it!
    INFp-Ni

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    Quote Originally Posted by misutii
    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    As I'm one of the few (proven) Fe dominants here in the forum, I should give my reply as well.

    misutii - I agree with what you said about the differences between INFp and INFj. I've noticed similar things. The weird thing... when I'm upset, I appreciate it when someone hugs me and is extra affectionate and friendly, but it doesn't really help me. What I expect from the other person is them telling me, "Nonsense!" and prove to me that all my problems are in my head and there's really nothing to worry about.
    i totally agree with that too, i love when people tell me that there's nothing wrong and then convince me of it!
    lol. yeah.

    When I complain anything to my INFj friend - she'll agree and console me but that makes the feeling somehow stronger for me. Then the problem obviously can't just be in my head because she agrees! Then I'll start playing the other side of the argument and start trying to convince her that it's nothing to worry about. She doesn't want me to hide from my own feelings, so she's still reacting like there is a huge problem. Usually with her I pretend that everything's perfect, so she'll give me the right kind of feedback.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
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