How can you tell the difference? What types of behaviors might one see that would differentiate these 2 types? Vocational differences? Relational differences?
Please comment....help with this is appreciated.
Differences between IEI-INFp and SEI-ISFp
How can you tell the difference? What types of behaviors might one see that would differentiate these 2 types? Vocational differences? Relational differences?
Please comment....help with this is appreciated.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
ISFps are the second clear "Critic" type after INTps. They are narrator-negativist, just like INTps. So they are likely to often say stuff like, "this still has to be done" or "before you do that, you must to this" etc. In doing that, they will be very detail-focused.
By comparison, INFps are more likely to focus on what has already been done, on a longer-term view.
ISFps are more likely to be concerned about whether people around them are in an immediate good mood; they dislike getting into what they see as unnecessary arguments. INFps are more likely to be confrontational if their beliefs are challenged, or if they perceive someone as being emotionally hostile to them.
An ISFp is more likely to be seen as an "overgrown child"; an INFp, as an "overaged teenager".
An ISFp makes the impression of someone who basically wants to have a good time and wants others to have a good time; an INFp makes a more determined, decisive, goal-oriented impression.
When discussing ideas, ideologies, politics, etc, ISFps are more likely to be flexible, as if it wasn't worth it, to risk a fight due to that. INFps will be more likely to engage in a discussion on such matters, even passionately so.
An INFp can make the impression of being a bit of a "dreamer"; ISFps are nothing if not down-to-earth.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
I think I've read that post before.
I'm not sure if IEIs make the primary impression of being goal-oriented and decisive. Are you sure about that characterization?
Also, "this still has to be done" for SEI sounds like some sort of task-master. I don't see that kind of aggressive telling-people-what-to-do-because-I-said-so behavior from either ILIs or IEIs. Sounds possibly LSI?
All of the observations are meant to focus on IEIs in relation to SEIs and vice-versa. A Resolute, Beta, Ni IP type makes more of an impression of decisive and goal-oriented than a Reasonable, Alpha, Si IP type.
Same as above, and this refers - as it was perfectly clear in my post - to the "Critic" narrator-negativist behavior, same as with ILIs, who aren't "agressive etc etc etc" either.
Nevermind me, I'm in my critic mode, I guess.
Here are some other possible differences:
SEI is comfortable with practical details, IEI has a problem with practical details.
SEI is down to earth and enjoys the simple pleasures of life easily; IEI is more likely to talk about the meaning of things and may convey the sense of never being satisfied.
Where it gets difficult though is if you have an IEI whose career or situtaion in life forces him/her to focus more on practical things. In that case, it may be harder to distinguish the two.
I've also thought that sometimes EII artists may appear like SEI to some because of their value given to Si, combined with their F and introverted nature.
SEI complains more, laughs more, moodier, emanates (absorbs) more energy when happy (sad), more mood swings, less conformist, more likely to get drunk, not particularly fond of abstract nonsense, usually identifies with a group, generally rounder if female, mesomorph if male, persevering towards their goal, physically fit, anarchist/apolitical
IEI more social, stabler outward mood, gestures are more sweeping but look worse, reads bukowski, more friendly, tries to be friends with people that are well known/have lots of power/potential, some of them are fond of abstract nonsense, very into alt music, generally slimmer, hot if female, long haired if male (dunno male infps i think are though about as hot by many girls but i am not a good judge being straight), socialist/anarchist
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Being an SLE, you may be a little biased towards IEI though (?).
A lot of people say that SEIs are roundish. Is this really true? Most people I think are SEIs are pretty slim.
Not sure that IEIs are more social or friendly; I'd suspect that to Alphas it would appear the opposite.
Yeah, I tried not to, does SEI sound bad? I tried to make both balance out. I mean, "reads bukowski" should be considered a defectBeing an SLE, you may be a little biased towards IEI though (?).so is "likes people with a lot of power". I've seen INFp eyes shine at the sight of a credit card! Still, they're small downsides.
The girls I know 2 are roundish 1 is slim. Just my observation, really. The males are average.
A lot of people say that SEIs are roundish. Is this really true? Most people I think are SEIs are pretty slim.
Friendly maybe not, more social for sure. Again - your observations could be different but all the ISFps I know have a less casual acquaintances than the INFps. When I walk around with my ISFp friend yeah, he knows people, a normal amount. With the INFp he's all the time greeting some new hottie that i have never seen before, shit. Although, the INFp is somewhat more materialistic in this regard; when asked he says that he keeps the friendship "cuz you never know", whereas the ISFp is more into keeping only the friendship he cares about. Hope it's not biased.Not sure that IEIs are more social or friendly; I'd suspect that to Alphas it would appear the opposite.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
From my observations, SEIs are disproportionately represented among roundish people, which is not to say that all or even most SEIs are roundish. They are more likely to be so than IEIs, though, from what I have observed.
Two SEI girls I kno/ew very well are downright skinny; and my SEI father was on the slim side his whole life, even as an old man. So one must be careful.
right on. i have a better grasp of IEI than SEI. i can't clearly see or visualize my dual for some reason. the filatova descriptions are crystal clear, but they have not yet been completed for alpha types.
i think my sqeeze is IEI. this would mean an illusionary relationship/mirage relationship. a promising relationship, but one in which there would seem to be major differences in expectations and values. he would want a powerful, forceful person....at times i feel myself trying to be this, but i can't see this lasting. i have a lot of energy but not enough for 2 people to live off of, like an sle would have.
according to socionics, i would want a more relaxing type of person, more down to earth and uncomplicated than moralistic and spiritual. but i don't see this type of person nor do i know where to find them. i don't cross paths with them.
and yet i repeatedly find myself with people who show evidence of a strong spiritual foundation. and beta folks. again and again.
i am 42 years old and can't fuck around anymore. this is my life....
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
I think I know what you mean now. ISFps are sometimes so absorbed in their own sense of enjoyment that they may seem less social. INFps can really come alive in various settings and seem almost extraverted.
However, INFps may also be more inclined to "shut off" when they feel they don't have anything in common with someone, or if they want to keep their distance for whatever reason. I've noticed this tendency to turn "on" or "off" around various people in INFps, but not so much in ISFps who seem to be more or less the same no matter whom they're around. I'm not much into the Reinin stuff, but maybe it could be an aristocracy vs. democracy thing?
Socionics is just a tool. If IEIs seem good to you, don't let Socionics ruin the pary.Illusionary is supposed to be pretty good anyhow. And you may have some Beta side to your personality that draws you to IEI.
However, where Socionics can help is:
* If you're drawn to a type over and over and it never works out, then you can get some insight as to why.
* If you never would have considered hanging out with someone and Socionics says it would be a good match, you can try it.
You worry too much. Hey, I was with my dual for six years and it didn't work out. :wink:
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
I don't know that many IEIs, but the one I know best, and whose type I am certain of, is exactly like that. The difference in comparison with SEIs is striking, and of course it is consistent with the difference between Alpha and Beta.
Yes, that is definitely true, and it is fully consistent with body type theory. Every SEI I know in real life is roundish. IEIs in general are less roundish and have roughly the same body type as an ILI. Expat is of course right about the importance of being careful, and that there are exceptions to the overall statistic pattern, but if you think that someone skinny is an SEI you should check the arguments for that hypothesis at least one more time.
The overall pattern at a very general level seems to be that N types are at least somewhat skinnier than S types. The most skinny types are of course LIIs and EIIs.
Body type theory?
yes. what i am trying to say is that i am repeatedly drawn to beta types and it doesn't work out. the most recent of which has been a divorce from my sle ex. we were together for 15 years and have 2 small children. it has been the most painful thing i've ever experienced because of the way he did it. i want to work on finding another relationship. this may take a considerable amount of time and in your 40's this process can get undermined by the simplest of logistical issues. so i don't want to waste my time on something that is doomed.Socionics is just a tool. If IEIs seem good to you, don't let Socionics ruin the pary.
However, where Socionics can help is:
* If you're drawn to a type over and over and it never works out, then you can get some insight as to why.
* If you never would have considered hanging out with someone and Socionics says it would be a good match, you can try it.
before being married, i went out with an enfj; which was a pretty good relationship. also went out with an infp, which was not so good because he continually smoked a lot of weed and i just couldn't take the laziness. both of these relationships lasted about 3 years each, but have been over for about 15-20 years.
the current IEI used to smoke weed but stopped, so i can wait and see what happens i guess. but not that long, i don't think before i need to make up my mind - and before he makes up his mind. who knows, even though he doesn't know about socionics, the face validity of it is proving true...i am lookalike to sle, he may think i'm something i'm not. he is attracted to power and force. his ex is an istj.
but you are right in that an illusionary relationship is a pretty good one. and now he and i are in middle age where you are a little more mellow than previously. i am not sure what the impact of life stage is on socionics....middle age is hardly a time to begin a driving quest for power and position.
perhaps somebody like rick will see this and comment?
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
STOP! IT IS NOT DEFINITELY TRUE BECAUSE IT HAS ALREADY BEEN DISPROVEN BY OBSERVATIONS. CHOSE YOU WORDS CAREFULLY.
ILIs are NOT skinny, most of them are around 4.5-2-5 in sheldon's classifications, whereas IEIs are usually 2-3-4. Check any type description of ILIs and they'll say they are round-ish.and it is fully consistent with body type theory. Every SEI I know in real life is roundish. IEIs in general are less roundish and have roughly the same body type as an ILI. Expat is of course right about the importance of being careful, and that there are exceptions to the overall statistic pattern, but if you think that someone skinny is an SEI you should check the arguments for that hypothesis at least one more time.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
ISFps aren't skinny? Hmm I've known some very skinny ISFps in my life. The skinny ones seem to have been the men though.
Some types might be more likely to indulge, and some types might diet more because they might be more worried about what impression they make on others, but simple genetics and metabolism are probably more important overall than that IMO.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
Those who can read what I wrote in my last post will of course notice that I didn't say that ILIs are skinny. I said that they are less roundish than SEIs, and that is still a true statement.
As I think Expat has mentioned in one of his posts in the past, IPs can vary in body types, perhaps more than other temperaments. I know at least one very fat ILI, but most of them seem to be more normally built with perhaps a tendency to be slightly more skinny than the average person, at least when younger. In the type descriptions ILIs are said to have a tendency to put on weight as they grow older, and that may be true. LIIs and EIIs seem to be almost immune to that phenomenon. SEIs, on the other hand, are clearly at least slightly more roundish than the average person.
A lot of people - if not most - tend to put on weight as they grow older; your metabolism shifts gears. I agree that, empirically, LIIs and EIIs are less likely to become really fat but they also often put on weight (while still remaining relatively slender).
On body types, generally, I suggest caution. Yes I agree that a considerably fat (not just somewhat overweight) person, when young, is not very likely to be LII or EII. I would rule out these types, and be skeptical of other IJ types too, for such a person, unless all the other evidence were overwhelming. But otherwise, I would give body type less weight than other evidence.
I would give body type about the same weight as V.I. -- they are really two sides of the same coin. But of course no single type of evidence is enough in itself to determine someone's type, including intertype relations and functions.
V.I. involves facial expressions, which are highly related to type. Body type, while possibly genetically related, is a bit less conclusive.
I'd offer the following explanation for body type: Simply combine type factors that affect exercise and eating habits. So, S types and rational types are more likely to exercise, but S types are also more likely to be big on food, and N types may be more likely to "forget to eat." Introversion is probably related to solitary exercise, such as endurance-related exercise, while extraversion to team sports that require a more muscular build.
However, lots of things may affect a individual's eating and exercise habits.
One is a victim, the other is a caregiver.
BAM!
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
utterly pathetic.
Oh yeah, I forgot - "you decapitate SEIs, where as IEIs you push off a cliff or tall building"
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
I'm INFp and my best friend is ENTp. we've been best friends for 6 years (since highschool) and we never tire of each other's company. I think I've met an ENTp girl and I found her general "aura" unassailably attractive - unfortunately I was too shy to do anything about it. don't put too much weight on "power and position", the main thing you'd have to take care of, in terms of dealing with an INFp, is feeling comfortable taking the initiative - especially in sexual matters! after a few times you'll find that we're quite suggestible and if we like you you can get us to do pretty much anything lol. also if an INFp is being lazy it's probably cuz he doesn't know that fuck to do with his life and needs direction, if you know that he has any talent in any area then compliments can work wonders -we're totally vulnerable to flattery!
also you mentioned you're in your 40s. I remember reading that later in life people tend to develop their "weaker" functions and this seems to be true, from what I can tell, thus type-related conflicts should play a lesser role. I'd think that cultural/educational influences would be just as important to take into consideration. The "pot-head" INFp that you dated, for example, was probably just never inspired and so didn't continue his education and thus never was able to formulate realistic goals that would get him anywhere. i used to smoke pot too but i don't really anymore unless everyone around me is doing it, i find it seriously inhibits me from taking charge and doing anything about anything and my biggest fear is becoming a nothing
edit: btw after i'm done this hellish week of exams and graduate school applications i'll get back to filatova descriptions, i'm almost done the intj one and can get to the isfp after that
INFp-Ni
that's actually quite helpful....i do find that i have to take the initiative a lot. but then i feel like i'm pressuring him and say if i'm trying to make plans, and he's not really committing, then i feel like pest and that he's being gamey. i told him this last night, he seemed surprised.I'm INFp and my best friend is ENTp. we've been best friends for 6 years (since highschool) and we never tire of each other's company. I think I've met an ENTp girl and I found her general "aura" unassailably attractive - unfortunately I was too shy to do anything about it. don't put too much weight on "power and position", the main thing you'd have to take care of, in terms of dealing with an INFp, is feeling comfortable taking the initiative - especially in sexual matters! after a few times you'll find that we're quite suggestible and if we like you you can get us to do pretty much anything lol. also if an INFp is being lazy it's probably cuz he doesn't know that fuck to do with his life and needs direction, if you know that he has any talent in any area then compliments can work wonders -we're totally vulnerable to flattery!
also you mentioned you're in your 40s. I remember reading that later in life people tend to develop their "weaker" functions and this seems to be true, from what I can tell, thus type-related conflicts should play a lesser role. I'd think that cultural/educational influences would be just as important to take into consideration. The "pot-head" INFp that you dated, for example, was probably just never inspired and so didn't continue his education and thus never was able to formulate realistic goals that would get him anywhere. i used to smoke pot too but i don't really anymore unless everyone around me is doing it, i find it seriously inhibits me from taking charge and doing anything about anything and my biggest fear is becoming a nothing
edit: btw after i'm done this hellish week of exams and graduate school applications i'll get back to filatova descriptions, i'm almost done the intj one and can get to the isfp after that
he does need tons of alone time which i didn't really understand till i read the filatova description. i'm like the opposite. i'm very energetic and want to always be out and about socializing with my friends or him or busy doing something. i can chill out at home, too, but i'd still rather be with someone even in that condition. i don't need that much time alone because i start thinking too much, lol.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
i'm happy that was useful, here's more stuff for you! definitely don't feel like you're pressuring him unless it's to constantly go be social with people he doesn't care about. Basically you're responsible for all matters of "practical reality" that is deciding what to do during the current moment. If he enjoys your company then he likely doesn't care what you two do together as he just likes being with you as you do it.
Also you'll find him more receptive to doing things "just the two of you" vs. with other people. It's forcing to deal with larger groups that will tire him out. If you want him to get along with your friends you should have them interact in a more intimate environment, i.e. just you, the infp, and one friend. Personally I find interactions of larger groups to be relatively shallow and meaningless as they leave something wanting. In a more intimate environment, however, I feel more free to share intimate things, and intimacy and trust are dependent on each other - and we all prefer to be around people we trust!
Also i bet you could introduce him to socionics and he'd find it fascinating, especially if you gave him an INFp description - the one that used to be socion.info that was written by an INFp would be the perfect intro.
In general with any of your ideas that "normal" people would find weird, he will find interesting and enjoy hearing, always remember that if he's not sharing his thoughts or feelings it's probably because he thinks they're weird and that you won't find them interesting or disapprove them.
if he's acting "gamey" or seeming "silently pretentious" just remember that it's a defense mechanism and don't take it personally. he's likely too busy criticizing himself to be criticizing you. don't expect him to open up right away, just leave it to time. lots of things he'll never tell you until the "perfect moment" arrives, like when the info. relates to the current situation or to something you recently said.
also don't criticize him, especially in front of other people, unless you can do so very constructively, he's quite able to criticize himself. and when he tells you something about himself it's meant for you and you may find he'll take offense if you share that info with your friends. this is because he sees information as power and so while he may be willing to give you this power you can understand he doesn't want ppl he doesn't trust to have it over him
infp behaviour may seems unpredictable at first but really it's not. if this information is useful and you have any more questions feel free to ask
you sound as though you know him! he's definitely said stuff about not telling others stuff he's said to me. he described a situation where his ex criticized him in front of other, didn't appreciate that at all. i did introduce some socionics concepts and he found it pretty interesting. you're uncanny!i'm happy that was useful, here's more stuff for you! definitely don't feel like you're pressuring him unless it's to constantly go be social with people he doesn't care about. Basically you're responsible for all matters of "practical reality" that is deciding what to do during the current moment. If he enjoys your company then he likely doesn't care what you two do together as he just likes being with you as you do it.
Also you'll find him more receptive to doing things "just the two of you" vs. with other people. It's forcing to deal with larger groups that will tire him out. If you want him to get along with your friends you should have them interact in a more intimate environment, i.e. just you, the infp, and one friend. Personally I find interactions of larger groups to be relatively shallow and meaningless as they leave something wanting. In a more intimate environment, however, I feel more free to share intimate things, and intimacy and trust are dependent on each other - and we all prefer to be around people we trust!
Also i bet you could introduce him to socionics and he'd find it fascinating, especially if you gave him an INFp description - the one that used to be socion.info that was written by an INFp would be the perfect intro.
In general with any of your ideas that "normal" people would find weird, he will find interesting and enjoy hearing, always remember that if he's not sharing his thoughts or feelings it's probably because he thinks they're weird and that you won't find them interesting or disapprove them.
if he's acting "gamey" or seeming "silently pretentious" just remember that it's a defense mechanism and don't take it personally. he's likely too busy criticizing himself to be criticizing you. don't expect him to open up right away, just leave it to time. lots of things he'll never tell you until the "perfect moment" arrives, like when the info. relates to the current situation or to something you recently said.
also don't criticize him, especially in front of other people, unless you can do so very constructively, he's quite able to criticize himself. and when he tells you something about himself it's meant for you and you may find he'll take offense if you share that info with your friends. this is because he sees information as power and so while he may be willing to give you this power you can understand he doesn't want ppl he doesn't trust to have it over him
infp behaviour may seems unpredictable at first but really it's not. if this information is useful and you have any more questions feel free to ask
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
The INFp friend I'm closest with IRL is also a so-variant sx-last in the ennagram, that might have something to do about it. Besides...I wouldn't have known what to place as negatives otherwise!:/
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
no i agree with you that it's a recognizable trait, but at the same time defining power and position, for an INFp, is going to be relative to his/her own 'power and position' and thus is very variableThe INFp friend I'm closest with IRL is also a so-variant sx-last in the ennagram, that might have something to do about it. Besides...I wouldn't have known what to place as negatives otherwise!:/
The female INFps I know IRL always give me the impression that they are potential rich men's wives (partly because of their duals), alongside with IXFjs.
.
Just kidding. I don't really care that much whether the guy is rich or not. But I definitely feel that financial stability is very important.The female INFps I know IRL always give me the impression that they are potential rich men's wives (partly because of their duals), alongside with IXFjs.Your comments just reminded me of Jane Austen's novels and how so many of the women were keeping an eye out for a good rich man to marry.
It's just confusing because an ESTp is good at encouraging i think. The stereotype of INxp is that they need .. goading.In regards to initiative, I think it's more complicated than most people imagine. I just need to know what others intend to do. This allows me to decide a course of action that at best is mutually beneficial or at worst does not interfere. I do not like it when people's plans are contingent on some action on my part. There is a difference between cooperation and co-dependency.
Note: I am not saying I am not dependable. But I do tend to resist putting myself into a position of depending on others or having them depend on me.
I don't really care what I am doing with my friends or even that we are doing the same thing. It is enough simply to be near them. Proximity increases opportunities for spontaneous interaction. And it is spontaneous interaction that I enjoy.
I am very much a social animal. And I have no problems going out with my extroverted friends. As long as I can maintain some distance, I can protect myself from being over-stimulated. If I appear somewhat reserved, then it is because such reserve is necessary.
Note: I am not shy. People often see me as shy and try to "encourage" me. When I resist, it seems to reinforce their impression that I am shy. So they become more aggressive in their "encouragement". Eventually I am forced to take aggressive action to protect myself. Then they turn around and claim that I am being unsociable. So I learned to avoid social situations, except in the company of friends who protect my interests.
oh yeah. to the original post, I do think that ISFps are more visibly moody. She is taking care of her personal space.. or something.
I find INFps wittier and sexier than ISFps. I have actually been trying to figure out why they are so much sexier to me.
Distinguishing IEI from SEI, how are these types different?
Is this accurate?
IEI's generally seem (from my perspective) to have a subtlety odd, quietly whimsical nature. They're daydreamers and if they do stand out, it's more likely to be for their eccentricity than for any type of in-your-face presence. They generally seem less "there" than SEI's do.
Of course.
Me=Eccentric.
D-SEI
This is me and my dual being scientific together
Well, any type can be eccentric (except LSE's
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