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Thread: Type correlations and equivalences between MBTI and Socionics

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    Default Type correlations and equivalences between MBTI and Socionics

    I know that MBTI INTJs are typically socionics INTps; what does an MBTI ENFP equate to in socionics? Is it as simple as switching the P to a j?
    INTp, ILI Logical subtype

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    Eh. An MBTI ENFP (NeFi) is a socionics ENFp( )
    Don't think there's a change.
    INTp
    sx/sp

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    There are no direct correlations (says UDP). Many think the types are the same. You will enjoy conversing with them about their correlation thoughts, maybe.


    I am INTJ and LII.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    This topic is about as old as the oldest topic you could ever find about socionics. This is the example of an old topic. It's almost like religion topics - so old that everyone avoids it. Or almost like nature vs nurture topics (I once foolishly gave a decent thread that title and wondered why so few people replied).

    There is no real correlation. I'm XSTJ in MBTI.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

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    Default Re: MBTI/Socionics equivalences

    Quote Originally Posted by drd252
    I know that MBTI INTJs are typically socionics INTps; what does an MBTI ENFP equate to in socionics? Is it as simple as switching the P to a j?
    As Kristiina said, this is a very old topic and people have different views.

    But one thing is clear -- forget the j/p switch thing. It will only confuse you.

    And no, a MBTI INTJ is not typically a socionics INTp.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    This topic is about as old as the oldest topic you could ever find about socionics. This is the example of an old topic. It's almost like religion topics - so old that everyone avoids it. Or almost like nature vs nurture topics (I once foolishly gave a decent thread that title and wondered why so few people replied).

    There is no real correlation. I'm XSTJ in MBTI.
    Yeah, this topic is so ancient and worn out. We need to talk about something totally new and original. Something that's completely straight forward, objective, and that everybody's sure to agree on....




    Hey! I've got it!

    Let's talk about what types Einstein and Hitler were!?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    This topic is about as old as the oldest topic you could ever find about socionics. This is the example of an old topic. It's almost like religion topics - so old that everyone avoids it. Or almost like nature vs nurture topics (I once foolishly gave a decent thread that title and wondered why so few people replied).

    There is no real correlation. I'm XSTJ in MBTI.
    Yeah, this topic is so ancient and worn out. We need to talk about something totally new and original. Something that's completely straight forward, objective, and that everybody's sure to agree on....




    Hey! I've got it!

    Let's talk about what types Einstein and Hitler were!?
    Or maybe, say, the difference between and or something like that. Now that would really be a fascinating topic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick
    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    This topic is about as old as the oldest topic you could ever find about socionics. This is the example of an old topic. It's almost like religion topics - so old that everyone avoids it. Or almost like nature vs nurture topics (I once foolishly gave a decent thread that title and wondered why so few people replied).

    There is no real correlation. I'm XSTJ in MBTI.
    Yeah, this topic is so ancient and worn out. We need to talk about something totally new and original. Something that's completely straight forward, objective, and that everybody's sure to agree on....




    Hey! I've got it!

    Let's talk about what types Einstein and Hitler were!?
    Or maybe, say, the difference between and or something like that. Now that would really be a fascinating topic.
    lol. Most of the biggest topics have been mentioned. Oh wait... one more:
    The differences between INTj and INTp for typing all those INTxs.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

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    There was a rule mentioned in one topic about MBTI/socionics correlations in regards to INTxs

    Socionics INTj (logical subtype) -> MBTI INTJ
    Socionics INTp (logical subtype) -> MBTI INTJ
    Socionics INTj (intuitive subtype) -> MBTI INTP
    Socionics INTp (intuitive subtype) -> MBTI INTP

    I don't know how accurate this is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    There was a rule mentioned in one topic about MBTI/socionics correlations in regards to INTxs

    Socionics INTj (logical subtype) -> MBTI INTJ
    Socionics INTp (logical subtype) -> MBTI INTJ
    Socionics INTj (intuitive subtype) -> MBTI INTP
    Socionics INTp (intuitive subtype) -> MBTI INTP

    I don't know how accurate this is.
    not at all accurate.

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    MBTI has more of a "personality theory" feel to it, but socionics is about the way we process information. People of the same socionics type can have very different personalities.

    If someone really wants to figure out their socionics type, they should forget MBTI all together and start learning about functions. If they're one of the people who fits cleanly into one of the sixteen types defined by model A, they'll have about as good an idea of their type as they're going to if they understand the functions (and are healthy enough to know which functions they value).

    http://www.socionics.us/theory/information.shtml
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    If they're one of the people who fits cleanly into one of the sixteen types defined by model A
    ah; so that's your new stance. that explains it.

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    I explained it in a thread a little while ago.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    you explained that you didn't think socionics worked really, but you didn't elaborate much on the idea.

    or perhaps i simply didn't read the entirety of the thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    MBTI has more of a "personality theory" feel to it, but socionics is about the way we process information. People of the same socionics type can have very different personalities.
    Actually, both focus on "the way we process information." What you say here is quite true of both. MBTI isn't as lame as it is often made out to be on Socionics forums. Nevertheless, there are clearly differences in definitions of the functions/scales, notions of what each of the types are like, and a number of things regarding approach.

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    Default Re: MBTI/Socionics equivalences

    Quote Originally Posted by drd252
    I know that MBTI INTJs are typically socionics INTps; what does an MBTI ENFP equate to in socionics? Is it as simple as switching the P to a j?
    Yes, my girlfriend is INTp (socionics) and I have an INTJ (MBTI) friend and they are identical in most areas.

    I would say that types are quite compatible for extroverts, and for introverts it's more like:

    ISTJ - ISTj
    ISFJ - ISFj
    ISTP - ISTp
    ISFP - ISFp

    INTJ - INTp
    INFJ - INFp
    INFP - INFj
    INTP - INTj

    This is empyrical observations of mine. Notice how sensors match and intuitives don't. I do belive that sensors are much more homogenuous in their behaviour.
    [] | NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)

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    I dunno, I think MBTI has an intelligence bias and types anyone bright as an intuitive type. There are just as many intelligent people who are sensors. Also, the J/P thing in MBTI seems to be mostly about whether someone is clean/organized or messy/disorganized (at least that's what most people seem to think), which simply is not true at all. E/I seems to focus primarily on social introversion or extroversion in MBTI... also something which does not apply to socionics. In MBTI, T/F seems to be about whether someone is emotionally expressive or not, or whether they're concerned with objective facts... anyone ever meet an ISFj?

    So yeah... I think people who want to learn about socionics should just throw MBTI out the window and learn about Information Elements.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    I think MBTI has an intelligence bias and types anyone bright as an intuitive type. There are just as many intelligent people who are sensors. Also, the J/P thing in MBTI seems to be mostly about whether someone is clean/organized or messy/disorganized (at least that's what most people seem to think), which simply is not true at all.
    Yeah. I feel that the questions in MBTI-related tests and descriptions of MBTI types seem to put the Sensing function in a negative light as been narrow-minded, not curious, boring, dismissing of new ideas etc. Example of question: Which is a greater fault? (a) having one's head in the clouds. (b) stuck in the rut. I think option (b) sounds more negative than option (a), irregardless whether the person is an Intuitive or Sensor.

    People I know seem to prefer to choose the options that lean them towards been intuitive 'cos they look good, even though they might not NTs or NFs at all. Moreover, based on descriptions of MBTI types, it seems to me that the recommended careers for Intuitives seem to be more interesting and lead to a higher pay as compared that of the Sensors and I feel that this is rather misleading.

    Sensors seemed to be portrayed theoretically as rather shallow and boring people in MBTI, and based on descriptions alone, people (including Sensors) appear to like the Intuitives better than the Sensors. I don't think this is necessarily the case IRL. There are some Intuitives who drive Sensors crazy IRL (eg.: for been not so in tune with their surroundings).

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    Yes, I agree with Joy. Perhaps "real" or "official" Myers-Briggs is more sophisticated than that, but that is the view most people have, apparently. So it's really better to drop it altogether, imo.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Yes, I agree with Joy. Perhaps "real" or "official" Myers-Briggs is more sophisticated than that, but that is the view most people have, apparently. So it's really better to drop it altogether, imo.
    Yeah, I think nowadays MBTI has been mishandled and is constantly portrayed in a pop psychology way, and people tend to form stereotypical views about the four functions.

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    Default Re: MBTI/Socionics equivalences

    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex
    Quote Originally Posted by drd252
    I know that MBTI INTJs are typically socionics INTps; what does an MBTI ENFP equate to in socionics? Is it as simple as switching the P to a j?
    Yes, my girlfriend is INTp (socionics) and I have an INTJ (MBTI) friend and they are identical in most areas.

    I would say that types are quite compatible for extroverts, and for introverts it's more like:

    ISTJ - ISTj
    ISFJ - ISFj
    ISTP - ISTp
    ISFP - ISFp

    INTJ - INTp
    INFJ - INFp
    INFP - INFj
    INTP - INTj

    This is empyrical observations of mine. Notice how sensors match and intuitives don't. I do belive that sensors are much more homogenuous in their behaviour.
    Yeah, this is one possible theory that I've considered. It hasn't been discussed as much as some of the others.

    Basically, the implications of this theory are that the temperaments Ip and Ij aren't well-formed...rather, the temperaments are:

    Ej
    Ep
    ISj/INp
    ISp/INj

    Really, although this thread gets into lots of "old" territory, this stuff is discussed so much because there really are disagreements within Socionics regarding the definitions, and that's why these questions never die.

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    Default Re: MBTI/Socionics equivalences

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    Really, although this thread gets into lots of "old" territory, this stuff is discussed so much because there really are disagreements within Socionics regarding the definitions, and that's why these questions never die.
    Or because Socionics and MBTI have many superficial similarities and because MBTI has a greater presence, which Socionics is always up against.

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    Default Re: MBTI/Socionics equivalences

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    Really, although this thread gets into lots of "old" territory, this stuff is discussed so much because there really are disagreements within Socionics regarding the definitions, and that's why these questions never die.
    Or because Socionics and MBTI have many superficial similarities and because MBTI has a greater presence, which Socionics is always up against.
    The difference actually exists within Socionics. Some definitions and statements you'll find in Socionics will tend to support the flip j/p thing for INs, and others will tend to support J=j/P=p. I've tried to capture the differences in http://the16types.no-ip.info/forums/...pic.php?t=9666.

    In a nutshell, people who think that Ni has to do with being places on time and that Te concerns a "business" perspective tend to see INTp as similar to MBTI-INTJ. Every so often, you'll come across someone who takes that position. In any case, you'll find support on both sides in the Socionics literature.

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    Ahh, Johnatan is such a reasonable guy <3
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    Default Re: MBTI/Socionics equivalences

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    Really, although this thread gets into lots of "old" territory, this stuff is discussed so much because there really are disagreements within Socionics regarding the definitions, and that's why these questions never die.
    Or because Socionics and MBTI have many superficial similarities and because MBTI has a greater presence, which Socionics is always up against.
    The difference actually exists within Socionics. Some definitions and statements you'll find in Socionics will tend to support the flip j/p thing for INs, and others will tend to support J=j/P=p.
    Different correspondences with MBTI certainly do not imply contradictions within Socionics.

    There are no be-all end-all "definitions", and it's best if you stop thinking of them as such.

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    Default Re: MBTI/Socionics equivalences

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Different correspondences with MBTI certainly do not imply contradictions within Socionics.
    I don't think you understood my point; maybe I didn't state it clearly.

    What I'm saying is that there are differences of opinion within Socionics, completely irrespective of MBTI, and that it is these differences of opinion that in turn cause differences of opinion in regard to how to relate it to MBTI.


    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    There are no be-all end-all "definitions", and it's best if you stop thinking of them as such.
    Not really sure what you're getting at. Clearly my posts have suggested that I see considerable "gray areas," but really if we don't strive for clear definitions as an ideal, then what would you suggest? Should we describe them all in words like "well, it's kinda like sorta"? Should we make someone the authority on the types and just listen to that...say they're just whatever I say they are...? What problem do you have with seeking reasonably clear definitions?

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    the myersian functions and the socionic functions are not the same. I have done research and I have found these correlations :

    (socionic = myersian)

    = Se and Si
    = Ne and Ni
    = Te and Ti
    = Fe and Fi
    = no myersian equivalent

    this is because :
    - myersian functions are functions-attitudes, functions are really 4, not 8 and attitudes are 2 ; 4 * 2 = 8
    for example, Se and Si are THE SAME function, but with a different attitude.
    - socionic "functions" are information elements, which there are really 8

    remember : these are only correlations...

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    Having come in contact with MBTI before Socionics, this has also confused me. I don't think I've ever voiced it because I've sensed a general tension in the subject, as others have explicitly mentioned above.

    In my view, MBTI works for me. As an ISTP, the function descriptions and ordering is very accurate for me. Ti -> Se -> Ni -> Fe. Most of my behaviour is explained accurately in the context of MBTI.

    Socionics is a bit more difficult, and I'm content just to let it ride for the moment to see where it goes.

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    The types are exactly the same in MBTI and Socionics, read the descriptions!


    This rumour has started, because there is a flaw in MBTI concerning the reproduction of underlying functions in introverts.

    Simple example:

    MBTI.........INTP....Ti/Ne.....Lazy, likes open ended, feels dual with an ESFP
    Socionics..INTP....Ni/Te.....Lazy, likes open ended, feels dual with an ESFP

    MBTI.........INTJ....Ti/Ne.....Ambitious, uses decisiveness, feels dual with an ESFJ
    Socionics..INTJ....Ne/Ti.....Ambitious, uses decisiveness, feels dual with an ESFJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    The types are exactly the same in MBTI and Socionics, read the descriptions!


    This rumour has started, because there is a flaw in MBTI concerning the reproduction of underlying functions in introverts.

    Simple example:

    MBTI.........INTP....Ti/Ne.....Lazy, likes open ended, feels dual with an ESFP
    Socionics..INTP....Ni/Te.....Lazy, likes open ended, feels dual with an ESFP

    MBTI.........INTJ....Ti/Ne.....Ambitious, uses decisiveness, feels dual with an ESFJ
    Socionics..INTJ....Ne/Ti.....Ambitious, uses decisiveness, feels dual with an ESFJ
    zzzzzz

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    MBTI is a relic and should be consigned to history. Socionics is far superior.

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    yes forget MBTI.

    because it still exists there will still be people saying.

    hey maybe the functions of MBTI are better (because they've been invented in the west or some other false reasoning they use... )hmmz

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    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc
    the myersian functions and the socionic functions are not the same. I have done research and I have found these correlations :

    (socionic = myersian)

    = Se and Si
    = Ne and Ni
    = Te and Ti
    = Fe and Fi
    = no myersian equivalent

    this is because :
    - myersian functions are functions-attitudes, functions are really 4, not 8 and attitudes are 2 ; 4 * 2 = 8
    for example, Se and Si are THE SAME function, but with a different attitude.
    - socionic "functions" are information elements, which there are really 8

    remember : these are only correlations...
    Interesting claim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    MBTI.........INTP....Ti/Ne.....Lazy, likes open ended, feels dual with an ESFP
    Socionics..INTP....Ni/Te.....Lazy, likes open ended, feels dual with an ESFP

    MBTI.........INTJ....Ti/Ne.....Ambitious, uses decisiveness, feels dual with an ESFJ
    Socionics..INTJ....Ne/Ti.....Ambitious, uses decisiveness, feels dual with an ESFJ
    Curious: Where in MBTI literature does it say that INTP feels dual with ESFP or that INTJ feels dual with ESFJ?

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    Yeah my feelings are that Socionics leaved MBTI for dust.

    Perfect example is when i was into MBTI i was going out with an INFp. I think i read they are supposed to be good types together.

    MBTI: Although two well-developed individuals of any type can enjoy a healthy relationship, ENFP's natural partner is the INTJ, or the INFJ. ENFP's dominant function of Extraverted Intuition is best matched with a partner whose dominant function is Introverted Intuition. How did we arrive at this?


    Yes how did you arrive at that? Because even back then i realised that two feelers together felt wrong.
    ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)

    "And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    MBTI.........INTP....Ti/Ne.....Lazy, likes open ended, feels dual with an ESFP
    Socionics..INTP....Ni/Te.....Lazy, likes open ended, feels dual with an ESFP

    MBTI.........INTJ....Ti/Ne.....Ambitious, uses decisiveness, feels dual with an ESFJ
    Socionics..INTJ....Ne/Ti.....Ambitious, uses decisiveness, feels dual with an ESFJ
    Curious: Where in MBTI literature does it say that INTP feels dual with ESFP or that INTJ feels dual with ESFJ?
    Sorry due my short (simpel) explanation this isn't clear indeed.

    I tried to say, that if you would use the J/P switch, someone typed INTP by MBTI would be an INTJ in Socionics.
    Like myself.
    But how is it possible then, that I have had several dual relationships all with ESFP. They should have been ESFJ's if this J/P switch were true...

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    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger
    Yeah my feelings are that Socionics leaved MBTI for dust.

    Perfect example is when i was into MBTI i was going out with an INFp. I think i read they are supposed to be good types together.

    MBTI: Although two well-developed individuals of any type can enjoy a healthy relationship, ENFP's natural partner is the INTJ, or the INFJ. ENFP's dominant function of Extraverted Intuition is best matched with a partner whose dominant function is Introverted Intuition. How did we arrive at this?


    Yes how did you arrive at that? Because even back then i realised that two feelers together felt wrong.
    That particular site - personality page isn't it? - takes the view that: (1) intuitives and sensors are totally incompatible; (2) extroverts are best matched with introverts; (3) a judger and a perceiver should mutually "balance" each other and (4) a thinker is best matched with a feeler, but that's secondary.

    It doesn't make sense, it was just a guess I supppose, maybe based on a couple of observations.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Talking about suitable partners, I noticed around me that there might be some truth in what Keirsey has postulated that NFs are most suitable for NTs, and SPs with SJs.

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    Creepy-Diana

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    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    Talking about suitable partners, I noticed around me that there might be some truth in what Keirsey has postulated that NFs are most suitable for NTs, and SPs with SJs.
    oh?
    I guess it's probably just among the circle of people whom I know. The common pairs I have noticed are ESTp-ISFj (mbti ISFJ) and ENTj-INFj (mbti INFP), and they seem to get along pretty well.

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