Difficult mission

[Creepy-]

Hello!

I need to know what my type is.I have some questions to ask:
-Do we born having the type:"WXYZ" or we become a member of this type due to life experiences?
-Can an F type be in fight with his feelings if he finds that they are obstacles relating to his abilities to understand things?Or if they make him suffer?
-I have strong sensations and strong intuitions,how can I know wether I am N or S?
-I was a bit extraverted during my childhood,and this is not the case at all now.But I am still inquisitive and I can open a long discussion with someone in order to get informations.In class I ask lot of questions.
-I am not well-organized due to my laziness.Does it implie that I am a P type.
-Tests usually give INTJ as a result...but I am not convinced because I am not ascetic,I have in fact a strong wing 7(I'm a 6)

I am really lost.

Thank you for your help!

[Creepy-]

I just would like to say that I am the author of this discussion...I have forgotten to login when I wrote the previous message.

[Titaniumssledgehammer]

hahaha...I forgot to do it again at 11:15...So the author is Titaniumssledgehammer.How stupid am I

[Creepy-the16types.info]

-Do we born having the type:"WXYZ" or we become a member of this type due to life experiences?

It's still a major mystery of Jung style personality theory. Most people guess every person has a born inclination to it.

-Can an F type be in fight with his feelings if he finds that they are obstacles relating to his abilities to understand things?Or if they make him suffer?

It can, but then why the world is full of F? Most of them can find the way for weak T, or learn many things to cover it.

-I have strong sensations and strong intuitions,how can I know wether I am N or S?

It's an another mystery of Jung style personality theory.
I think most people (me included) misunderstand or twist them eventually.

-I was a bit extraverted during my childhood,and this is not the case at all now.But I am still inquisitive and I can open a long discussion with someone in order to get informations.In class I ask lot of questions.

The terms extrovert/introvert are not all the same with other typing nor general usage. Typically introvert persons are almost I, but others are not sure.

-I am not well-organized due to my laziness.Does it implie that I am a P type.

Socionics j/p just means weather rational/irrational function comes 1st. I think it does few thing for MBTI J/P.

-Tests usually give INTJ as a result...but I am not convinced because I am not ascetic,I have in fact a strong wing 7(I'm a 6)

Did you get it from mcrnew's test? If so, you can ignore the big blue letter.

[Creepy-an ixtp (probably istp)]

Doh, I've failed to C&P my name oddly...my crazy browser did something!
The above post was mine.

[Titaniumssledgehammer]

Hei!

I don't know if these informations will help you at least to eliminate some types.

-I like ideas and theories very much...physics and math...philosophy
-I like Beethoven's music...it let me think of Richter machines(=>N>S?)
-I'm in love with graphics and colours...
-I donot care about prestige...but I like to feel superior in doing things
-I respect laws very much except:
1.when the law is unfair
2.there isn't good reasons to justify it...

[Creepy-an ixtp (probably istp)]

What do you feel about INFx?
http://www.the16types.info/types-INFP.php
http://www.the16types.info/beta1-INFP.php
http://www.the16types.info/types-INFJ.php
http://www.the16types.info/beta1-INFJ.php

• Loving theory is N or T tendency.
• Every type can love fine art and music, but NF and S have tendency to perform actually.
• Introverts are considered to be embarrassed by socially spectacular matters (in general term, but not far from Socionics in this case), but it doesn't mean they all don't like good estimates.
• To care whether they can keep the law or it's fair is IN or T tendency.

Comparing with other introvert types, which do you feel similar to you?

If they are not, then take a look at ENXx.

[Titaniumssledgehammer]

I have found lot of incompatibilities with INFP and INFJ...I think my picture will be given....Just give me a little bit of time

[Titaniumssledgehammer]

One more thing:I have a very complicated mind...and I have difficulties to think with simplicity...does it mean anything?

[Hugo]

Put the following sentences in order, starting with the sentence that describes you the best and finishing with the sentence that describes you the worst.

 I am influenced by possibilities. (N)
 I am influenced by my surroundings. (S)
 I am influenced by my emotions. (F)
 I am influenced by logical reasons. (T)

[Titaniumssledgehammer]

I don't know how to send my picture on this site....Can someone very good at VI give me his e-mail as a private message in order to send him my picture?

N>T>F>S maybe

[Hugo]

Seems like you are INTj with intuitive subtype

[Titaniumssledgehammer]

I have just read all the F-types description...I think that(but I am not sure for 100%,not even for 95% which is the least statistically acceptable limit)
the only possible F-type is:ISFJ...We'll see...

[Rocky]

I was going to say ISFP, but possibly you could be ISFJ as well. My strong gut feeling is that you are still ISFP. Maybe you could write a little more about yourself, or read up on ISFP more to see if it fits you.

[Titaniumssledgehammer]

I don't know...ISFP isn't really incompatible to.I know that most of ISFP's are 2...some 6s are ISFPs...but they are rare...but still probable...I think you already have the picture...can you please send it to this site in order to see if others agree with you?

[Rocky]

I can't post the picture here, but you can if you go here; http://tinypic.com/. Just host which ever picture you want and they will give you a url. Just copy and paste the url here.

[Titaniumssledgehammer]

I have just read the descriptions of this site....I found lot of incompatibilities...I have many times heard that I am a real protester...I donot have at all a rapid speech...Needs of the others do never come before mine...I am quite selfish and egocentric...but it is still possible...I don't know

[Rocky]

Do either of these descriptions describe you?

MEDIATOR (Dumases, ISFP)

1. S - sensorika of the sensations
Men of customary pleasures and simple everyday happiness. Greatly it is considered habits and conveniences in those surrounding. Does not disrupt strange rest. It always worries about the health and a good health its and its close ones. It surrounds itself by pleasant trifles. It dresses simply and with the taste. It rejects extremes in the exterior view. He tries to be held in the shadow, it is not separated neither to the side of the good nor to the side the laggards. It will get along with all, since it knows how to engage the position of the golden mean. The peace of things is studied. It loves to take object in the hands, to touch it, to perceive its physical qualities. It for a long time memorizes sensations. It easily manipulates by objects, seeking out that which to it is usual.

2. E - ethics of the emotions
The reasons for human emotions are understood. He knows, as to cheer up or to anger one or other person or another. In the contact of nonformal nature it is invariably friendly, demonstrates optimism. It loves to be enjoyed in the close to the circle of friends. It attempts to cheer up those surrounding by jokes, hints, drawings. Its thoughts are directed toward the methods of obtaining the positive emotions. It does not interfere in the disputes, the differences of the explanation of relations, since with all he wants to live in the world. From the center of conflict it is held on the safe distance. It gathers and shares with familiar different rumors, gossips, sensational and simply curious information. It is always in the course of the secular chronicle of its circle.

3. T - intuition of the time
It forces itself to be leisurely, measured off and smooth. In the contact with the people it does not feel sorry time, it knows how to extend pleasures. It does not love people of hasty, eternally hurrying. It remembers well the holiday dates of its relatives and familiar. He does not forget to in proper time congratulate them. Time usually works on it: which did not succeed for it now, then it will make up in the future. It does not love itself to connect with periods, it is not characterized by punctuality. Everything are done at the rate convenient for itself. It will always find reasons to its delays. The final solution puts aside to the last minute. Internally sufficiently variable and koleblyushchiysya person. It must be pushed slightly so that it in proper time would begin and would be packed in time.

4. P - business logic
Efficiently it works, if people await from it aid. Greatly it requires so that its efforts would note and would value. If we it do not praise, not to note the results of work by positive relation, internally greatly it will offend, although this it will not show. Economic person. With the pleasure it is occupied by supply, equipping of accomodations. Especially he tries before the checkings or the arrival of guests. It solves matters of business through its friends and familiar. Is the more enterprising, the greater the quantity of connections starts. However, natural laziness limits an increase in its contacts. Those of them, which bring benefit to it are supported in essence. It is very attached to its work, kind of occupations. To it it is heavy to change professions, to disrupt the customary, worked out rhythm of labor.

5. I - intuition of the possibilities
It heavily transfers monotony and monotony. The alternatives of dull daily activity, possibility of selection are necessary to it. Pleasure is obtained, if finds output from the blind, it would seem, hopeless situation. It draws contact with the uncommon people, which it is many ideas and daring proposals have. People dull, gray strain it. It will try to avoid their society. It is resourceful and quick in the preparation of food or the formulation of dwelling. It loves to poeksperimentirovat' in this the field, to devise anything its. Tolerantly it relates to the cranks, the inventors, generally to people "not from the peace this". It relates to them as to the children, worrying about them and leniently pardoning their trick.

6. L - structural logic
It badly accepts confused information. It it brings down to sense, spoils mood. It pleases itself it, when concrete phenomena are connected with the general regularities. Its mood rises from the realization of its necessity, that it cannot be manage without it. It loves to correspond to diverted to it to place. It is activated, if we before it set as a clear goal, to explain direction of motion. Of the ways of achievement of the objective it will find itself. To it are not necessary "naked" facts, instructions, explanations. The main thing so that the system would please itself it, were caused emotions. Then it becomes assembled and organized.

7. F power sensorika
It depends on that how forces in the concrete situation were formed, will foresee rather well possible aggression, disruption of equilibrium, loss of stability. Critically it relates to the people sluggish, inert, which be in the apathy. It knows how to untwist them, to activate, calling to the decisive and quick actions. Sensitively it reacts to the volitional pressure. In the rough, power situation it behaves with the analogous degree of aggressiveness. It will not make it possible on itself to drive, to misuse by its reasonable nature. He knows, when it is necessary to press, and when to popustit'. However, to govern by people he does not attempt. Burden of authority for it too heavy a load. To it it is sufficient skill to defend its own interests.

8. R - ethics of the relations
In the relations with the people, which it please themselves and answer reciprocity, it is very attentive and obliging. Its sympathies it demonstrates not in a word, but by the matter. To it it is inconvenient something to request or to attain for itself. On the request of other people it can make much more. In this case itself also it will not offend. So that the matter would go, it should grasp, who relates well to it. Rest - matter of technology. Alertness, poor relation deprive its fitness for workes. Good mediator in the transactions, the commercial operations. It knows how to extend goods according to the nonformal connections of relation in it are tightly interlaced with the matters of business.


KEEPER (Dreiser, ISFJ)

1. R - ethics of the relations
It sees well, as people in the contact are revealed. It cannot be conducted by the strummed friendliness. The behavior of those surrounding critically is evaluated, but its opinion voices if and only if greatly they caught it. However, with the first acquaintance it sharply divides people into two categories - its and strangers. Strangers seemingly cease for it to exist, and strongly it ties to its close ones and friends, feels responsibility for them. It is accurate to its internal ethical estimations of man. It is very difficult to reconvince it. With difficulty it compromises with the strangers. By its much pardons. It freely manages psychological distance. First removes, then it brings people closer to itself. Thus it gives to understand, as it to them relates.

2. F - power sensorika
Skillfully is designed the force of action for man. It is not adapted to the partner, but it ties to it its line of behavior. It holds itself in the hands, until critical point begins. It is capable to postoyat' for itself and its close ones. It does not transfer coercion, unreasonable application of force. Its rebuff is always matching the degree of the manifestation of aggression. It knows how to train offender, consecutively increasing force of pressure on it. It will not be quieted until confusion and drop in the combat spirit of rival feels. Moral victory for it is more important than the physical. Never will make it possible to be turned with itself unceremonious, to tie its opinion. It it cannot be intimidated or provoked.

3. L - structural logic
It attempts to analyze situation from all sides and to draw an objective single-valued conclusion. The mask of dry and impassive person is put on on the people. It depends on the kept balance standards and the tested methods of actions. Everything are evaluated from the point of view of the common sense, reasonable selfishness. It forces itself to make that the fact that they require the rule of game. The same it requires also from those surrounding. It needs physical distance. It is held in the side from the boring people. It avoids the large accumulations of people.

4. I - intuition of the possibilities
To it it is difficult to be dismantled at the piling up original, but diffuse, of the not being rested on the acknowledged facts ideas and guesses. It heavily itself feels in the situation of uncertainty, incompleteness. Controlling man, it compares its possibilities with its. I can 4 make the same as it? First too idealizes man, then, on the contrary, completely denies the presence in it of abilities. It does not entrust to people boastful, which stick out their abilities. It will not begin to indulge to talented, but selfish and complacent people it does not recognize the ability, which are not augmented by labor. It awaits, when they note it also they will estimate on the merit. Itself to propose difficultly. It praises rarely other people, but compliments in its address assume with the pleasure.

5. R - business logic
Properly it weakens and is calmed by that by afterward stressed, but that brought the useful result of work. People, which implicate it into the business activity, please themselves it. It is practical in the daily matters. Starts everything, which find on its territory. Greatly it loves the functional and beautifully designed things. Values that is useful, and it requires minimum efforts for its maintenance. It knows how to ensure to itself comfortable conditions for the work. The labor-consuming forms of works rapidly are carried out so that it takes a long time not to return to them. It heavily transfers the change of work, customary structure of life. Discomfort with reconstruction to its new conditions greatly frightens away.

6. T - intuition of the time
It is impatient. It does not love red tape, the slow flow of events it is disposed to the rapid solutions. It is activated in the situations of the scarcity of time. Boost in the trifles causes in it protest, and in the large - it activates. It is better to give to it small preparation time, since the more it awaits and is prepared, the greater the agitations and the worse the result. It is internally anxious. It survives because of the dangers of every kind, which threaten to it and close people it searches for religious, philosophical, mystical and the like the methods of comprehension and protection from the wrongness of fate. It will not allow so that it they would take unaware, is always ready to unforeseen circumstances. It remembers well errors and shakings of the past, from which are extracted the lessons.

7. E - ethics of the emotions
The emotional state of man feels well. He asks about the reasons, which led to the poor mood. However, itself improve it it cannot. It is adjusted slightly under the mood of those surrounding. In the serious situation emphasized it is official, in to the circle of the friends unconstrainedly of oars, it allows even cynical sharpnesses for itself. It loves merry people, which know how to swing, to remove stress, to raise mood, to inspire confidence in the future. It needs abstraction from the painful thoughts and emotional dischargings. It avoids vital dramas, forcing of negative emotions. He knows, as heavily they influence the psyche and health. From other side, namerenno accelerates decouplings of conflicts or dramatizes situation.

8. S - sensorika of the sensations
It cannot sit without the concrete matter. Its idleness suppresses. Constantly it searches for, no matter by what to study. Work serves it as medicine against many illnesses. It fears to seem before the people in the slovenly, plain form, in the poor physical form. If it falls ill, then the radical methods of treatment without delay assume. Is experienced pity to the people neobustroyennym, patient, weak, dependent, deprived. Involuntarily it appears desire soak by anything concrete: to feed, to cure, to free from the dependence, soak to overcome crisis, to throw harmful habit. Greatly values cleanliness, the healthy means of life. Not it will be reconciled with man, who to it is physically disgusting, it has unhealthy instincts.

Come to think of it, you seem to look more ISFJ.

[Hugo]

Hei!

I don't know if these informations will help you at least to eliminate some types.

-I like ideas and theories very much...physics and math...philosophy
-I like Beethoven's music...it let me think of Richter machines(=>N>S?)
-I'm in love with graphics and colours...
-I donot care about prestige...but I like to feel superior in doing things
-I respect laws very much except:
1.when the law is unfair
2.there isn't good reasons to justify it...

This sounds like an MBTI INTp

[Titaniumssledgehammer]

Thak you Rocky...Well...I will read the descriptions slowly and think about them...I will answer soon

What I have to say for now is the following:

1.I have a question:Is the VI scientifically validated?If yes,aren't there exceptions?Where scientists able to proove the relationship between the MBTI type and the facial expressions?Or they weren't able yet to give prooves?...And please I don't want you to talk like astrologists who pretend that their system is scientifically validated and lot of counterexamples have been found.In other words if you aren't sure it will be better to say nothing

2.The hierarchy of functions for the ISFP is:Fi>Se>Ni>Te
So the thinking function is the inferior one.Let's see if this can be possibleA)This hierarchy implies certainly that the emotional abilities are farly higher than the intellectual one'sand(B)I am 18 years old and I have an IQ of 137(the average is 100)...From informations (A) and (B) we can say that I have an Emotional quotient higher than 160! ...OK,we will suppose that this is true...then we can affirm that I have a very integrated personnality(because both emotional and mental centres are highly strong),which is in contradiction with the reality...(in fact a psychologist has told me the contrary)

3.Go and tell people who know me that I am a peacemaker....you can continue the sentence I think

We cannot make any conclusion now...I promise you to apologize whenever I find that you are right.

P.S:I am not saying that it is impossible to have F>T,what I am saying is that it isn't really compatible to have F in first place and T in fourth

[Creepy-an ixtp (probably istp)]

1.I have a question:Is the VI scientifically validated?If yes,aren't there exceptions?Where scientists able to proove the relationship between the MBTI type and the facial expressions?Or they weren't able yet to give prooves?...And please I don't want you to talk like astrologists who pretend that their system is scientifically validated and lot of counterexamples have been found.In other words if you aren't sure it will be better to say nothing

I think it's just hypothetical and a hunch of an expert, but some people are not. I think it would be accurater than random guess to judge F/T if a movie with usual facial expression is obtained, but other things aren't still sure. And there's no perfect consensus even on non-VI typings.

2.The hierarchy of functions for the ISFP is:Fi>Se>Ni>Te
So the thinking function is the inferior one.Let's see if this can be possibleA)This hierarchy implies certainly that the emotional abilities are farly higher than the intellectual one'sand(B)I am 18 years old and I have an IQ of 137(the average is 100)...From informations (A) and (B) we can say that I have an Emotional quotient higher than 160! ...OK,we will suppose that this is true...then we can affirm that I have a very integrated personnality(because both emotional and mental centres are highly strong),which is in contradiction with the reality...(in fact a psychologist has told me the contrary)

Some people think XNTjs usualy have higher IQ and ESXps never do, but I don't agree. I don't know any statistical basis about it.

3.Go and tell people who know me that I am a peacemaker....you can continue the sentence I think

Another name is just another name. If a person might be applied to the description exactly, most people have no type.

[Titaniumssledgehammer]

"Some people think XNTjs usualy have higher IQ and ESXps never do, but I don't agree. I don't know any statistical basis about it."
I didn't say this as a proove that I am an xNTJ

"Another name is just another name. If a person might be applied to the description exactly, most people have no type."

I think that being a peacemaker is an essential characteristic for being an ISFP and not just a name or a small detail.

[Transigent]

Edited for gayness.

[Rocky]

I read in a russian socionics forum somewhere that ISFj's have the highest IQ in a russian socionic study.

So does that mean that ENTPs have the lowest IQ? Go over to ENTP.org and tell them that... that would be golden.

1.I have a question:Is the VI scientifically validated?If yes,aren't there exceptions?Where scientists able to proove the relationship between the MBTI type and the facial expressions?Or they weren't able yet to give prooves?...And please I don't want you to talk like astrologists who pretend that their system is scientifically validated and lot of counterexamples have been found.In other words if you aren't sure it will be better to say nothing

It isn't scientifically proven, but I have to admit that I see patterns. For an example, here are some INFPs:



These pictures aren't the best, but you can definalty see similarities.

2.The hierarchy of functions for the ISFP is:Fi>Se>Ni>Te
So the thinking function is the inferior one.Let's see if this can be possibleA)This hierarchy implies certainly that the emotional abilities are farly higher than the intellectual one'sand(B)I am 18 years old and I have an IQ of 137(the average is 100)...From informations (A) and (B) we can say that I have an Emotional quotient higher than 160! ...OK,we will suppose that this is true...then we can affirm that I have a very integrated personnality(because both emotional and mental centres are highly strong),which is in contradiction with the reality...(in fact a psychologist has told me the contrary)

Actually, it is a little diffrent in socionics. If you look at the ISFJ descrition above, you will notice it is numbered up to 8. Each paragraph is an analysis of a diffrent function.

1- Fi (Base)
2- Se (Creative)
3- Ti (Role)
4- Ne (PoLR)
5- Te (Dual-seeking)
6- Ni (Hidden Agenda)
7- Fe
8- Si

Hope that helps (if not look at the "Functions" or "Model" sections on this site).

[Creepy-an ixtp (probably istp)]

I didn't say this as a proove that I am an xNTJ

I considered this (the second INTj guy).
http://www.socionics.com/advan/qa.htm?1121539843
And detail of my view; some characteristics like nervousness, challenging, compassion and chaity are often associated with high IQ, but a person with a mediocre IQ score can also have them. What this all comes down to is that the IQ distribution of each type can show difference at its mean, but it will also be wide at its range and moderate at its slope. Every type would have a chance to take the hightest IQ members of the world, and a person's IQ won't be a critical hint.

I think that being a peacemaker is an essential characteristic for being an ISFP and not just a name or a small detail.

It's right too, but it will be a hard way to make perfect agreement with all people about what the word reminds. So other long descriptions are.
And Socionics originally came from Russia. There may differences between Russian and English too...

[Creepy-]

Aren't there highly intelligent people and intellectuals from all types???

[Creepy-pokeball]

I'd assume so Mr. Guest. I'd assume the difference lies in how each temperament goes about it. The other issue is that intelligence has various forms (ie strategic versus logistic intellect) and measurement of any form of intelligence is difficult to measure. The one thing that true is that N's seem to be gifted in testing ability which some think may be related to the G factor.