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Thread: Fi Hidden Agenda of INTps and ISTps

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    Default Fi Hidden Agenda of INTps and ISTps

    What is the manifestation of a Fi hidden agenda?
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    perhaps... to be romantically involved with someone?
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    What is the manifestation of a Fi hidden agenda?

    One manifestation would be that they hug you, hang on to you somewhere in the bar - therefore showing you "affection" by behavior in public, but in their heads they don't really love you, they want to use you for doing something for them (like sex for one night - it can happen. After that they ditch you).

    I*FPs can do this too, but they show far to much emotion.

    I*TPs manipulate by logic sentences, I*FPs by emotionally charged sentences.

    I*TPs really hate and that's their hidden agenda. They don't love people for various reasons which involves their first two functions. An ISTP person doesn't like people who are ugly, who stink, who don't know how to dress, who waste too much strength doing something simple - like washing dishes in a bar. They hate that and to them they can't show compassion.
    An INTP would have many visualizations of different activities and they would create an abstract model of these activities. Those who behave not according to their mental model would be irrational and therefore hated. They hate/dislike people who can emit true emotions (ESFJ, ISFP) and they know they can't do that themselves.

    You see, it's mostly about showing compassion. I*TPs always show LOGIC and NEVER emotion.
    drake
    --Dilemmas are illusions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drake
    I*TPs really hate and that's their hidden agenda. They don't love people for various reasons which involves their first two functions. An ISTP person doesn't like people who are ugly, who stink, who don't know how to dress, who waste too much strength doing something simple - like washing dishes in a bar. They hate that and to them they can't show compassion.
    okay, I agree with this part... but INTps are not touchy feely... only the super fucked up ones, like your ex girlfriend
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    god, dude. ):
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    just wanted to add for drake's sake... INTps don't truly and properly realize it when they're fucking with someone's emotions... Fe is a conscious function, but one they have little to no control over
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    Quote Originally Posted by drake
    An ISTP person doesn't like people who are ugly, who stink, who don't know how to dress, who waste too much strength doing something simple - like washing dishes in a bar. They hate that and to them they can't show compassion.
    I hate this kind of people. And I hope that an ISTp is not like that.

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    it's Te bitching about shit that it doesn't truly believe... it's just bitching
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    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    Quote Originally Posted by drake
    An ISTP person doesn't like people who are ugly, who stink, who don't know how to dress, who waste too much strength doing something simple - like washing dishes in a bar. They hate that and to them they can't show compassion.
    I hate this kind of people. And I hope that an ISTp is not like that.
    Nooooo! I hope ISTps aren't like that too.
    Umm.. I hope my boyfriend doesn't think that way.
    INTp
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    INTjs are like that.... INTps can be if they're cranky... the ISTps I've known were more laid back than that
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    Never met an ISTp who is so superficial to give a shit about that.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    and with INTps, it's just a rant... they're actually bitching about something else entirely
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    fi, to love, means what it says. You want to love things. You have a hard time doing so, and expressing. IxTps have a hard time even saying they like anything. But inside, they want to really like something. To really love something. An IxTp musician doesn't say he loves his instrument, he plays it, understands it's structure, and how it all works together. He doesn't love music. You never him talking about the beauty of music. You hear him saying, 'oh yeah, that syncopation was interesting, you don't hear that very often.'

    maybe?
    asd

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    One possible manifestation of the hidden agenda has been described by Ganin, and I think it has some truth to it, even for INTps:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sergei Ganin
    The most obvious thing that could give ISTps away is probably their obsession with pets. Sometimes it could reach ridiculous dimensions, turning ISTp's place into a zoo. This obsession is very closely connected with ISTp's hidden agenda. Since ISTps have unconscious need to be able to show their affection towards another, who could be a better suitable candidate for this than a pet, or better a dozen of them. People can reject your love and your good intentions, pets will never.
    Even if there is no such thing as a hidden agenda, what is said above is probably true about the types ISTp and INTp.

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    The "hidden agenda", IMO, is another of Sergei Ganin's misguided concepts and exaggerates the importance, and visibility, of the 6th function. Some people are even going as far as to make a new version of Socionics where it is as visible as the first function -- but never mind that now.

    As I see it, the "hidden agenda" in IXTps simply means that they have as quadra value, so > preference. But on top of that, is their PoLR, so it's particularly "invisible", which makes "stand out" a bit despite being a relatively weak function. Especially for ethical-rational types, confident in both and , it's a strange combination, like the or hidden agenda of IXFps seem to logical-rational types. And so on.

    So, basically, the hidden agenda means that IXTps look for establishing bonds with others - "blue laser beams" as in my metaphor - but are particularly insecure about the aspects of establishing and maintaining it, so they end up not sure what to so about the part either. That also means that they find the whole thing exhausting and baffling, and may prefer to "relax" by having such bonds with pets as SG mentioned, and I have also observed that, but of course many other types love pets (ESFjs in particular).

    What heath wrote is spot-on:

    Quote Originally Posted by heath
    fi, to love, means what it says. You want to love things. You have a hard time doing so, and expressing. IxTps have a hard time even saying they like anything. But inside, they want to really like something. To really love something. An IxTp musician doesn't say he loves his instrument, he plays it, understands it's structure, and how it all works together. He doesn't love music. You never him talking about the beauty of music. You hear him saying, 'oh yeah, that syncopation was interesting, you don't hear that very often.'
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    So, basically, the hidden agenda means that IXTps look for establishing bonds with others - "blue laser beams" as in my metaphor - but are particularly insecure about the aspects of establishing and maintaining it, so they end up not sure what to so about the part either. That also means that they find the whole thing exhausting and baffling, and may prefer to "relax" by having such bonds with pets as SG mentioned, and I have also observed that, but of course many other types love pets (ESFjs in particular).
    So do their duals help them with this? If so, how?
    INTp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    So, basically, the hidden agenda means that IXTps look for establishing bonds with others - "blue laser beams" as in my metaphor - but are particularly insecure about the aspects of establishing and maintaining it, so they end up not sure what to so about the part either. That also means that they find the whole thing exhausting and baffling, and may prefer to "relax" by having such bonds with pets as SG mentioned ...
    This makes a lot of sense, and I think it is true. And I agree that this too is good:

    Quote Originally Posted by heath
    You want to love things. You have a hard time doing so, and expressing. IxTps have a hard time even saying they like anything. But inside, they want to really like something. To really love something. An IxTp musician doesn't say he loves his instrument, he plays it, understands it's structure, and how it all works together. He doesn't love music.
    But talking about the beauty of music is more "impersonal". I have always had real troubles saying that I like or love something or someone, but to say that something is beautiful is more like stating an objective fact of the universe. At least it is somewhat easier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    But talking about the beauty of music is more "impersonal". I have always had real troubles saying that I like or love something or someone, but to say that something is beautiful is more like stating an objective fact of the universe. At least it is somewhat easier.
    that's true. the word beauty is distracting in that sentence, and unnecessary.
    asd

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mea
    So do their duals help them with this? If so, how?
    Simplistically, by being confident on the existence of the Fi bond - or of the IXTp's willingness to establish/maintain it. By looking past the Fe PoLR "cloud" and seeing the Fi "beams". And, being the extroverted partners, by taking some initiative in the process.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by drake
    One manifestation would be that they hug you, hang on to you somewhere in the bar - therefore showing you "affection" by behavior in public, but in their heads they don't really love you, they want to use you for doing something for them (like sex for one night - it can happen. After that they ditch you).

    I*FPs can do this too, but they show far to much emotion.

    I*TPs manipulate by logic sentences, I*FPs by emotionally charged sentences.

    I*TPs really hate and that's their hidden agenda. They don't love people for various reasons which involves their first two functions. An ISTP person doesn't like people who are ugly, who stink, who don't know how to dress, who waste too much strength doing something simple - like washing dishes in a bar. They hate that and to them they can't show compassion.
    An INTP would have many visualizations of different activities and they would create an abstract model of these activities. Those who behave not according to their mental model would be irrational and therefore hated. They hate/dislike people who can emit true emotions (ESFJ, ISFP) and they know they can't do that themselves.

    You see, it's mostly about showing compassion. I*TPs always show LOGIC and NEVER emotion.
    The main problem here - among very many - is to mistake for "compassion".
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    Quote Originally Posted by drake
    An ISTP person doesn't like people who are ugly, who stink, who don't know how to dress, who waste too much strength doing something simple - like washing dishes in a bar. They hate that and to them they can't show compassion.
    I hate this kind of people. And I hope that an ISTp is not like that.
    It's the truth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by heath
    fi, to love, means what it says. You want to love things. You have a hard time doing so, and expressing. IxTps have a hard time even saying they like anything. But inside, they want to really like something. To really love something. An IxTp musician doesn't say he loves his instrument, he plays it, understands it's structure, and how it all works together. He doesn't love music. You never him talking about the beauty of music. You hear him saying, 'oh yeah, that syncopation was interesting, you don't hear that very often.'

    maybe?
    Lol, this is right on; it's pathetic that I have to be drunk to tell someone I love them, even my family.

    Everything about the music is right on too; I produce drum 'n' bass on my computer, and the syncopation and structure are what drive me in composing it. Drum 'n' Bass has beat structures that most people cant understand, and I LOVE IT!

    Check out my music.

    DNB4LIFE
    INTp, ILI Logical subtype

    Drum 'n' Bass head

    GorillaSound.net

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    "IxTp hidden agenda" was the title of this forum topic.
    "What is the manifestation of a Fi hidden agenda?"

    Now, think. If FI really I*STP hidden agenda? No, it's FE. So, throughout the whole text I wrote about the INABILITY of expressing emotions. By showing somebody that you really care about him/her, you can act and not really mean what you say or do. You do it just because you think you must do it. But, by doing it, you aren't completely honest about it. Those examples about hate and so... well, it's my mistake because I'm NOT A GOOD WRITER and I can't describe what I think very correctly, so my stories about behavior I saw and the subjects don't bring you the correct example. I'm not Honore de Balzac.

    We have to understand one thing we're doing on this forum and that's WAISTING WORDS. None of us can prove nothing until we have a psychological experiment with a group of people to get some results, some statistics which will either prove the proposition or deny it.

    When we're talking about ISTPs or any other type, we usually forget that a TYPE is a SET of people, which number of elements isn't known. We only have a description of this SET of people. So, when we type certain people... I mean, how many sentences from type descriptions do we really compare will they fit this one person, this one element, which we will mark as an ISTP.

    Waisting words is bad. It's also bad to write uncomplete stories about somebody where it's unclearly defined what's what, who's who and how did something happen. Because of it, we cannot come to closure or conclusion. We don't do experiments.

    [/b]
    drake
    --Dilemmas are illusions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drd252
    Quote Originally Posted by heath
    fi, to love, means what it says. You want to love things. You have a hard time doing so, and expressing. IxTps have a hard time even saying they like anything. But inside, they want to really like something. To really love something. An IxTp musician doesn't say he loves his instrument, he plays it, understands it's structure, and how it all works together. He doesn't love music. You never him talking about the beauty of music. You hear him saying, 'oh yeah, that syncopation was interesting, you don't hear that very often.'

    maybe?
    Lol, this is right on; it's pathetic that I have to be drunk to tell someone I love them, even my family.

    Everything about the music is right on too; I produce drum 'n' bass on my computer, and the syncopation and structure are what drive me in composing it. Drum 'n' Bass has beat structures that most people cant understand, and I LOVE IT!

    Check out my music.

    DNB4LIFE
    This stuff rocks.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by drd252
    Lol, this is right on; it's pathetic that I have to be drunk to tell someone I love them, even my family.
    Seriously?? If that were true, I'm a IXTp too! LOL.
    I don't go telling my family "i love you" bla bla unless i'm pretty drunk.
    Err.. I dunno.

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Simplistically, by being confident on the existence of the Fi bond - or of the IXTp's willingness to establish/maintain it. By looking past the Fe PoLR "cloud" and seeing the Fi "beams". And, being the extroverted partners, by taking some initiative in the process.
    Oookay. Thanks. Now that you put those in words, I'm more conscious to that.
    INTp
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    Quote Originally Posted by drake
    "IxTp hidden agenda" was the title of this forum topic.
    "What is the manifestation of a Fi hidden agenda?"

    Now, think. If FI really I*STP hidden agenda? No, it's FE. So, throughout the whole text I wrote about the INABILITY of expressing emotions. By showing somebody that you really care about him/her, you can act and not really mean what you say or do. You do it just because you think you must do it. But, by doing it, you aren't completely honest about it. Those examples about hate and so... well, it's my mistake because I'm NOT A GOOD WRITER and I can't describe what I think very correctly, so my stories about behavior I saw and the subjects don't bring you the correct example. I'm not Honore de Balzac.

    We have to understand one thing we're doing on this forum and that's WAISTING WORDS. None of us can prove nothing until we have a psychological experiment with a group of people to get some results, some statistics which will either prove the proposition or deny it.

    When we're talking about ISTPs or any other type, we usually forget that a TYPE is a SET of people, which number of elements isn't known. We only have a description of this SET of people. So, when we type certain people... I mean, how many sentences from type descriptions do we really compare will they fit this one person, this one element, which we will mark as an ISTP.

    Waisting words is bad. It's also bad to write uncomplete stories about somebody where it's unclearly defined what's what, who's who and how did something happen. Because of it, we cannot come to closure or conclusion. We don't do experiments.

    [/b]
    ???

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    The "hidden agenda", IMO, is another of Sergei Ganin's misguided concepts and exaggerates the importance, and visibility, of the 6th function. Some people are even going as far as to make a new version of Socionics where it is as visible as the first function -- but never mind that now.

    As I see it, the "hidden agenda" in IXTps simply means that they have as quadra value, so > preference. But on top of that, is their PoLR, so it's particularly "invisible", which makes "stand out" a bit despite being a relatively weak function. Especially for ethical-rational types, confident in both and , it's a strange combination, like the or hidden agenda of IXFps seem to logical-rational types. And so on.

    So, basically, the hidden agenda means that IXTps look for establishing bonds with others - "blue laser beams" as in my metaphor - but are particularly insecure about the aspects of establishing and maintaining it, so they end up not sure what to so about the part either. That also means that they find the whole thing exhausting and baffling, and may prefer to "relax" by having such bonds with pets as SG mentioned, and I have also observed that, but of course many other types love pets (ESFjs in particular).

    What heath wrote is spot-on:

    Quote Originally Posted by heath
    fi, to love, means what it says. You want to love things. You have a hard time doing so, and expressing. IxTps have a hard time even saying they like anything. But inside, they want to really like something. To really love something. An IxTp musician doesn't say he loves his instrument, he plays it, understands it's structure, and how it all works together. He doesn't love music. You never him talking about the beauty of music. You hear him saying, 'oh yeah, that syncopation was interesting, you don't hear that very often.'
    I agree.

    Hey that was supposed to be a HIDDEN agenda! >:-/
    INTJ [mbti]
    INTp [socionics]

    A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drake
    What is the manifestation of a Fi hidden agenda?

    One manifestation would be that they hug you, hang on to you somewhere in the bar - therefore showing you "affection" by behavior in public, but in their heads they don't really love you, they want to use you for doing something for them (like sex for one night - it can happen. After that they ditch you).
    That actually sounds more like the Fe hidden agenda.

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    Fi hidden agenda is to master the art of love.
    [] | NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by drd252
    Quote Originally Posted by heath
    fi, to love, means what it says. You want to love things. You have a hard time doing so, and expressing. IxTps have a hard time even saying they like anything. But inside, they want to really like something. To really love something. An IxTp musician doesn't say he loves his instrument, he plays it, understands it's structure, and how it all works together. He doesn't love music. You never him talking about the beauty of music. You hear him saying, 'oh yeah, that syncopation was interesting, you don't hear that very often.'

    maybe?
    Lol, this is right on; it's pathetic that I have to be drunk to tell someone I love them, even my family.

    Everything about the music is right on too; I produce drum 'n' bass on my computer, and the syncopation and structure are what drive me in composing it. Drum 'n' Bass has beat structures that most people cant understand, and I LOVE IT!

    Check out my music.

    DNB4LIFE
    This stuff rocks.
    Thanks
    INTp, ILI Logical subtype

    Drum 'n' Bass head

    GorillaSound.net

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    Quote Originally Posted by drd252
    Quote Originally Posted by heath
    fi, to love, means what it says. You want to love things. You have a hard time doing so, and expressing. IxTps have a hard time even saying they like anything. But inside, they want to really like something. To really love something. An IxTp musician doesn't say he loves his instrument, he plays it, understands it's structure, and how it all works together. He doesn't love music. You never him talking about the beauty of music. You hear him saying, 'oh yeah, that syncopation was interesting, you don't hear that very often.'

    maybe?
    Lol, this is right on; it's pathetic that I have to be drunk to tell someone I love them, even my family.

    Everything about the music is right on too; I produce drum 'n' bass on my computer, and the syncopation and structure are what drive me in composing it. Drum 'n' Bass has beat structures that most people cant understand, and I LOVE IT!

    Check out my music.

    DNB4LIFE
    Very good!

    Yeah, its really sad but I very rarely tell anyone I love them, even when I really really do.
    Having something I really love and have a passion for is usually quiet fleeting, im too laid back most of the time, and in particular its hard to say to people how much I might like something at a particular time, so I say things like "'oh yeah, that syncopation was interesting, you don't hear that very often.'" like you say, or something similar depending on whatever it is im into.
    Friendly ISTp
    Interested in everything, yes, EVERYTHING
    Flower's motto: Life's too short even to do the things you want to, let alone the things you dont!!

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    Default Fi as Hidden Agenda

    It is thought that Fi hidde nagends is "To Love".

    I don't agree with that. I think it might be "To be Respected".
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Default Re: Fi as Hidden Agenda

    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    It is thought that Fi hidde nagends is "To Love".

    I don't agree with that. I think it might be "To be Respected".
    Isn't Hidden Agenda the 6th function?
    INTP/ILI(Ni) /5w4

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    Help me leave behind some reasons to be missed."

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    Yes, the 6th.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Fi is "to love", or maybe you could look at it as "to have a relationship where I love someone and I'm loved in return".

    To be respected sounds closer to hidden agenda to me.

    Just admit you're ENFp and get it over with, Dio.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    This has always confused me, because I read somewhere than the ILI's HA was 'to love' but it would seem my 6th function is so I don't know how that would work.

    EDIT: Yes I do! They've put the model A numbers in random orders. Ha. I understand now. Although it isn't random, it's just so that they make sense when you flip them over from P to J and vice-versa.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    Fi is "to love", or maybe you could look at it as "to have a relationship where I love someone and I'm loved in return".

    To be respected sounds closer to hidden agenda to me.

    Just admit you're ENFp and get it over with, Dio.
    Why Te? It could be true by the way. But their hidde nagenda is supposed to be Se.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Kspin - the numbering isn't like you think. Fi is your 6th - model A
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    Kspin - the numbering isn't like you think. Fi is your 6th - model A
    Beat you to it.
    INTP/ILI(Ni) /5w4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    Fi is "to love", or maybe you could look at it as "to have a relationship where I love someone and I'm loved in return".

    To be respected sounds closer to hidden agenda to me.

    Just admit you're ENFp and get it over with, Dio.
    Why Te? It could be true by the way. But their hidde nagenda is supposed to be Se.
    No, our hidden agenda is Te. "To know". If someone acknowledges that you know something, that is a kind of respect. "to be respected" might also be Se, depending on what you mean by respect. I suppose it could be something else too, depending on what you mean by "respect".
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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