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Thread: A bit of research: type frequency

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    Default A bit of research: type frequency

    Are people equally likely to belong to each type, or are some types more common than others? I'm working on actually evaluating this.

    What I need is the types of your family members. No need to state what relationship each person has to you, only their type. Relatives are preferred, spouses and in-laws are OK. Don't provide types of friends, because this may result in a bias toward a uniform distribution of types.

    I have already gathered some information from the "Within the family" thread but I still need data from forum members belonging to the following types to conduct any analysis: ENFj, ISTj, ESFp, ISFj, ESTj, ISTp. Information from everyone else is quite welcome, as it will improve the accuracy of the results.

    For those who are curious, I am finding the stationary distribution of a Markov chain, on the state space containing all 16 types, with the right stochastic transition probability matrix P. p_i,j is defined as the probability that a person of type i has a family member of type j. I assume that this is in fact a stochastic process with the Markov property, and also that after taking into account sufficient data, the chain will become irreducible and ergodic so that a unique stationary distribution exists.
    ENTp

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    I'd say the distribution is fairly even, although I would say more extroverts than introverts, and probably more rationals than irrationals.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    How big is your sample? Your methodology is cool imho, I like it because you can actually run experiments (I think though they are still limited to a whole subset of the population, in other words you cannot take a given couple and try to predict the outcome of their mating in a stable way), but it definitely requires a shitload of data. I'm sure that if you are good at typing you can find it though. Speaking for myself - I have not found such a correlation, by visual approximation
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    I do think some types are more common than others, but I won't get into details.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Let me flesh this out in more detail.

    A sample is probably not the right way to describe it here, as I will explain. Rather than performing a statistical test to determine the distribution of types in the population, which I can't even think of a way to do, I am fitting a probabilistic model to the observed density of intertype relationships.

    Basically, to visualize how it works, consider all (or most) people being connected by family relationships. Each person has a type and many family relationships to people of other types.

    By taking only family relationships I hope to avoid bias due to people selecting their friends, co-workers, and so on by basing their decisions in part on personality, and by extension type.

    By estimating the probability of all people of types A knowing someone of type B and creating a smaller, random graph with probabilities estimated by data, I hope to approximate the actual real-world graph of interpersonal relationships. Then, say someone from every type seems to know a great number of ENFps. We can conclude in turn that ENFps are more dense in the population.

    The Markov chain in particular provides a very easy method of calculating this long-run or "stationary" distribution of a random walker on the smaller, random graph, who moves at every time step and has a certain probability of going from say, INTj to ENTj through a family connection.

    This is an unorthodox use of such a model, and there may be a more refined or correct way of doing it in graph theory, but I'm not aware of one. My intuition says it will be a fair approximation, if the pattern of the true graph is relatively homogeneous everywhere.

    Each row vector of the transition matrix has its probabilities estimated from the data using a multinomial maximum likelihood estimation technique. In English, take the number of connections observed from INFp to each other type, divide by the total number of INFp connections observed. Some parts of the random graph will be more accurate than others due to more data being available, and their accuracy will "smooth out" the inaccuracy of the others in the long run. Because we're not interested in the transitions in the end, only how often the random walker visits the node of each type.
    ENTp

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    ENFj, INFj, INTj, ISTj (?)
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    you also have to trust everyones typings. : /
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    Thanks Logos. I had the first three from the other thread but the last one helps too.

    As far as trusting people, I think that the individual bias will smooth out with large numbers of people providing data for each type's most frequently observed connections. The biases for each type are taken care of by the model.
    ENTp

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    ESE, SLE, don't know about my father.

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    Which sofware are you going to use to conduct the analysis?
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    INTj, ESTp, ESTj, INFj, INFp
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    ESTp ISTj ISFj ESFp
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    INTj, ISFj, ESTp, INFj

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    ISFp, ESTj, ESFj

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    Sounds interesting Ncassidy

    ISTj, ISFj
    ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)

    "And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin

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    This should be cool. I think the individual biases and typing errors will tend to even out, unless there are systemic typing errors among forum members.

    Here's a fairly large set of types from among my relatives, using the 3-letter code (sorry). If the sample is too large, just take the first line, I guess.

    IEE, SEI, IEE, EIE, EII
    LSE EII LSE LSE EII LSE
    LSE EII LSE EIE
    SLE LII ESI SLI SLE IEE LSE IEE ILI IEI
    ILI ESI ILI ILI SEE
    ESE SEI SEI SEI SLI
    ESI SLI SLI SEE

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    The types in my biological family: ESFj, INTj, INTp, INFp, ISTj.

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    Some other families around:

    ESI mother SLI father SLE son IEI daughter
    SEE mother LSI father LSI son EIE daughter LSE daughter
    LSE father SEI mother ESI daughter SLI son
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    My family: INTj, ESFj, ENFp

    Relatives
    ENFp, ISFp, ESTp, ENFj
    ENTp, INTj, ESFj, INTp
    INTp
    sx/sp

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    my two cents:

    immediiate: ESTp (myself), ISFj, ENTj, INTp, ESTj, ENFj, ESFJ.
    others: ISTj, ESFp, ENTp, ISTp.
    IEI - the nasty kind...

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    these typings should all be considered suspect. i will bold the ones i am definitely sure of. take them as you will.

    LIE, ESI, ILI

    LSI, SLI, two kids that are too young to be typed.

    ESE, alpha NT, SEE

    other random relatives in no particular order
    SEE, SEI, ESE, ESE, IEE, LIE, LSE, ESI, ILI

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Immediate:
    Me - ILE
    Sister - EII
    Father - EII
    Mother - LSE

    Extended:
    Brother-in-law: ESE
    Grandfather (M) - LSE
    Grandmother (M) - SLI
    Grandfather (P) - ESE
    Grandmother (P) - EIE

    Aunt - SLI
    Uncle- EII
    Son - IEE
    Daughter - ILI

    Aunt - EIE
    Uncle - SLE
    Son - IEE
    Son - SEE


    Other families I know:
    Son - SLE
    Mother - ESE
    Father - ILE

    Son - LII
    Father - LSI
    Mother - ESE

    Son - LII
    Son - SEE
    Father - EII
    Mother - ILI

    Son - IEI
    Mother - SEI
    Father - LSI

    (my favorite family EVER)
    Son - SEI
    Mother - IEI
    Sister - SLE

    Son - IEI
    Mother - ILI
    Father - ILI

    Son - ILE (x2)
    Daughter - IEI
    Mother - IEE
    Father - ILI

    Mother - ESE
    Father - LII
    Daughter - SLE
    Son - SEI

    Son - ILE
    Father - LSI
    Mother - ESE
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    ISFj, ENFj
    ILI (Indescribable Lovemaking Inc.)
    5w4 so/sx

    "IP temperament! Because today's concerns are tomorrow's indifferences!"

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    I'm keeping the data in Excel and I'll be solving the matrix equation either with Matlab or R or by hand, nothing sophisticated.

    Also ladies and gents, some of you have not included your own type, which I need separately from the family members to be able to put your information in the right row. If it's in your signature I got it.
    ENTp

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    Me: probably ENTp

    Father: ENTp

    Mother: ESFj

    Sister: INFj

    Brother in law: ENFp


    Father's side:

    Grandmother 1: ISFj

    Uncle 1: ESTp

    Uncle 2: ISTp

    Uncle 3 (deceased): ISFj

    Cousin: ESTp

    Grandmother 2: ISTj


    Aunt: ENFj

    Cousin: ENFp


    Aunt: INFj

    (her husband) ESTj

    cousin: ENTp

    cousin: ESTp


    Uncle: XSTx (beta)

    (his wife): INFp

    cousin: ENFj
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    ENTJ, ESTP (dad), ISFJ (mom)

    I am 100% sure about these typings. I have yet to type my sister accurately as I rarely get to see her.
    ENTj




    "A conscience does not prevent sin. It only prevents you from enjoying it..."

    "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible."
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    i could probably give much more accurate typings of people like my teachers, friends and other random people, because i make a point of seeing my family (aside from my immediate family, which essentially consists of me and my dad) as little as possible.

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    My family:

    Males:
    ENFp
    ESFj
    INTj

    Females:
    ENTp
    ENFj

    Other families I know:

    Males:
    ESFj
    ISFp
    ESTp

    Females:
    ESTj
    ESFp
    ----------------------
    Males:
    ENTp
    INFp

    Females:
    ESFj
    ----------------------
    Males:
    ESTj
    ISTj

    Females:
    INFj
    ISFp
    ----------------------
    Males:
    ENTj

    Females:
    ISFj
    (children unknown, too young to type)
    ----------------------
    Males:
    ESTp
    ESTp

    Females:
    ESTj
    ----------------------
    Males:
    ESFp
    ESFp
    ESFj

    Females:
    ISFj
    ISFp
    [] | NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)

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    mother: LSI
    father: ILE (possibly LII)
    me: LII
    my sister: ESE
    my brother: ILI

    maternal grandmother: ESE
    mother's sister: ESI
    mother's half-brother: EII
    his wife: IEE

    father's brother: SEE/SLE

    father's sister 1: ESE
    her husband: LSI
    their son 1: SLE
    their son 2: SEI
    his wife: ESE

    father's sister 2: SEI
    her husband: ILE (possibly ESE)
    their son: ILE
    their daughter: LSI
    her husband: SLI

    father's sister 3: LSI
    her long-term boyfriend: EIE

    father's sister 4: ESI
    her husband: ILI



    After writing all this up, it occurs to me that only immediate family would be useful to you. Although I think that analyzing only parental relations makes more sense, statistically, and considering genetic factors.

    I actually have calculated some statistics for my own typings--not just family, but all of them. The closest thing I have to a random sample is my high school grade's population (but it's not random, for a very good reason), and here it is:

    I: 0.66
    E: 0.34
    N: 0.44
    S: 0.54
    T: 0.32
    F: 0.67
    J: 0.38
    P: 0.6

    INTJ: 0.066
    ESFJ: 0.074
    ISFP: 0.154
    ENTP: 0.037
    INFP: 0.096
    ESTP: 0.037
    ISTJ: 0.029
    ENFJ: 0.037
    INTP: 0.059
    ESFP: 0.074
    ISFJ: 0.088
    ENTJ: 0.007
    INFJ: 0.074
    ESTJ: 0.007
    ISTP: 0.074
    ENFP: 0.066

    Alpha: 0.331
    Beta: 0.199
    Gamma: 0.228
    Delta: 0.221

    N=136

    Not really even. Very few ESTjs and ENTjs--which might be part of my typing bias. The statistics are noticeably different for the celebrities and fictional characters I've typed. The entire sample is much more even.

    Why so many ISFps? I don't know. I go to a selective and competitive school, and I think it may have something to do with the ISFp's hidden agenda. Also, it's harder for me to differentiate between IF types (and ET types).

    This comes from a Python program I wrote. I plan to incorporate Reinin dichotomies soon. The program is getting quite complicated; it extracts the typings from a text file according to a simple syntax. It can also do relationship stuff. I can send it to anyone who wants it; I think it makes it easier to handle large samples of typings.

    Here is my total type distribution (people I personally know + celebrities + fictional characters):

    I: 0.53
    E: 0.46
    N: 0.45
    S: 0.53
    T: 0.49
    F: 0.49
    J: 0.49
    P: 0.49

    INTJ: 0.105
    ESFJ: 0.083
    ISFP: 0.104
    ENTP: 0.054
    INFP: 0.051
    ESTP: 0.061
    ISTJ: 0.058
    ENFJ: 0.044
    INTP: 0.056
    ESFP: 0.054
    ISFJ: 0.056
    ENTJ: 0.038
    INFJ: 0.037
    ESTJ: 0.059
    ISTP: 0.052
    ENFP: 0.058

    Alpha: 0.346
    Beta: 0.214
    Gamma: 0.205
    Delta: 0.206

    N=781

    Still a noticeable Alpha bias, mostly from celebrities. Probably because I enjoy/am better at spotting Alpha celebrities. Otherwise very even.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pezzonovante
    ENTJ, ESTP (dad), ISFJ (mom)

    I am 100% sure about these typings. I have yet to type my sister accurately as I rarely get to see her.
    I wonder why in hell the isfj estp marriage is so common?
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    thehotelambush: Quite a lot of work you've done there! What does your program do exactly, summary statistics for a formatted text file? Python is an interesting language to have picked up so early, did you use it in a course, or learn it on the side?

    niffweed17: Still don't have your type! I think we could extend the frame to include anyone for whom interaction isn't strictly voluntary. Self-selection of teachers, professors, bosses, and so on would probably contribute around the same level of bias as any possible effects of genetics or upbringing. So feel free to give that info if you'd like, especially if you already have it available.

    Everyone: Thank you to all those who've contributed so far. The overwhelming majority of the data points I've collected have been from ENTps and ENFps due to their prolific contributions and high visibility on the board. In this type of analysis, the chain is only as good as its weakest link (pun not intended)... if you belong to another type, especially the aforementioned six for which no information has been found, your contribution would be much appreciated! Please take the time to chip in
    ENTp

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    I wonder why in hell the isfj estp marriage is so common?
    Because the Moron is right ...?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Keirsey
    Protectors and Promoters are apt to find their best match with each other. The outgoing, tough-minded Promoters (ESTPs) tend to have high periods during which they are in a whirlwind of euphoric activity, and the seclusive and friendly Protectors (ESFJs) enjoy preparing a quiet place for the high-rolling entrepreneur to crash. [...]

    Promoters and Protectors are likely to get along famously. It is great fun for the tough, outgoing Promoters (ESTPs), born gamblers and wheeler-dealers, to see if they can win over the reserved and friendly Protectors (ISFJs) and persuade them to let go of their caution and concern for a little while, and take a few risks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    I wonder why in hell the isfj estp marriage is so common?
    Because the Moron is right ...?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Keirsey
    Protectors and Promoters are apt to find their best match with each other. The outgoing, tough-minded Promoters (ESTPs) tend to have high periods during which they are in a whirlwind of euphoric activity, and the seclusive and friendly Protectors (ESFJs) enjoy preparing a quiet place for the high-rolling entrepreneur to crash. [...]

    Promoters and Protectors are likely to get along famously. It is great fun for the tough, outgoing Promoters (ESTPs), born gamblers and wheeler-dealers, to see if they can win over the reserved and friendly Protectors (ISFJs) and persuade them to let go of their caution and concern for a little while, and take a few risks.
    No thanks. I don't want to marry an ENTp.

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    Keirsey wrote:
    Protectors and Promoters are apt to find their best match with each other. The outgoing, tough-minded Promoters (ESTPs) tend to have high periods during which they are in a whirlwind of euphoric activity, and the seclusive and friendly Protectors (ESFJs) enjoy preparing a quiet place for the high-rolling entrepreneur to crash. [...]

    Promoters and Protectors are likely to get along famously. It is great fun for the tough, outgoing Promoters (ESTPs), born gamblers and wheeler-dealers, to see if they can win over the reserved and friendly Protectors (ISFJs) and persuade them to let go of their caution and concern for a little while, and take a few risks.
    This sounds a bit more like LIE + ESI to me...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick
    Keirsey wrote:
    Protectors and Promoters are apt to find their best match with each other. The outgoing, tough-minded Promoters (ESTPs) tend to have high periods during which they are in a whirlwind of euphoric activity, and the seclusive and friendly Protectors (ESFJs) enjoy preparing a quiet place for the high-rolling entrepreneur to crash. [...]

    Promoters and Protectors are likely to get along famously. It is great fun for the tough, outgoing Promoters (ESTPs), born gamblers and wheeler-dealers, to see if they can win over the reserved and friendly Protectors (ISFJs) and persuade them to let go of their caution and concern for a little while, and take a few risks.
    This sounds a bit more like LIE + ESI to me...
    Still, he seems to have the types right, even if the description points towards LIE (maybe)

    Yeah anyway, I don't know Phaedrus. I know myself that it's far easier for me to attract ISFjs than INFps, irl. Or rather...INFps are harder to keep.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    No thanks. I don't want to marry an ENTp.
    6w5 sx
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    sloan - rcuei

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    My family

    Parents:
    ESFj, ISTp.

    Three kids, (male
    ESFp, INFp, INTp.

  38. #38
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    There are an awful lot of mothers who are xSFj around here. I have a feeling that mothers are the most mistyped species on earth...
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim
    There are an awful lot of mothers who are xSFj around here. I have a feeling that mothers are the most mistyped species on earth...
    eheh, i agree
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by ncassidy
    Still don't have your type!
    i included myself as being an ILI in my immediate family, although not completely sure of this even still


    I think we could extend the frame to include anyone for whom interaction isn't strictly voluntary. Self-selection of teachers, professors, bosses, and so on would probably contribute around the same level of bias as any possible effects of genetics or upbringing. So feel free to give that info if you'd like, especially if you already have it available.
    well, i would say that there might be a slight bias in that i might tend to pick math and science classes, and so the non-required classes that i take might be slightly more biased towards NT types.

    nonetheless, here goes a long list of past teachers, again bolded those that i am sure of, which will make up a greater percent of these.

    SEE, LIE, LIE, SEI, LSI, EII

    ILI, ILI, LII, SEE

    LSI, SEE, LII, LIE, EIE

    EII, ILE, LII, ESI, LSE

    ESE, IEE, ESI, SLI, SEI, ILE, LSE

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