Results 1 to 24 of 24

Thread: XXXp: The Prodigious Minders of Human Evolution

  1. #1
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    TIM
    TiNe
    Posts
    7,967
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default XXXp: The Prodigious Minders of Human Evolution

    XXXps are perceptive individuals who can see the viewpoint of their dual in the context of their own viewpoint. This grants them great predictive power, which they use to guide the actions of those around them to the fulfillment of their personal ideals.

    There are 8 XXXp types, although they seem to share the same relation patterns between themselves and normal types. (the only difference being the order of changes in relationship as the cycle progresses)

    XXXps experience a unique sense of duality within the XXXp type spectrum. For example, ESTp may be an exemplar of the ideal prodigious servant, but they find themselves living in a world of appearances without the accompanying internal insight of the INFp, who themselves may wilt under the pressure of social expectation without ESTp's protection. Duality for XXXp means finding someone who's life mission coincides with their own.

    XXXps share a common belief in their existence due to the necessity of a divine agenda or mission, which is evident to them by personal knowledge. They may go to great lengths to fulfill this agenda, in which they take great pride.


    ESFp-XXXp

    Se -> Fi -> Ne -> Ti -> Ni -> Te -> Si -> Fe
    Ni -> Te -> Si -> Fe -> Se -> Fi -> Ne -> Ti

    Observes evolution paths of accepted events.

    Observes binding ties in the context of produced feelings.

    Accepts role as representative of external field dynamic
    influence on potentials.

    Observes subjective perception of objective conclusions.

    Receives suggestive content regarding events in time.

    Estimates dependence of relational dynamics on feelings.

    Experiences personal knowledge of the influence of external field
    dynamics on potentials.

    Determines conclusions drawn in the context of subjective experience.
    INTp-XXXp

    Ni -> Te -> Si -> Fe -> Se -> Fi -> Ne -> Ti
    Se -> Fi -> Ne -> Ti -> Ni -> Te -> Si -> Fe


    Observes events transpiring at accepted moments in time.

    Observes relational dynamics in context of feelings.

    Accepts role as a representative of possibility.

    Observes conclusions in the context of subjective experiences.

    Observes evolution paths of suggested events.

    Estimates binding ties in the context of feelings.

    Experiences personal knowledge of external field dynamics
    in the context of possibilities.

    Determines subjective perception of objective conclusions.


    ENTp-XXXp

    Ne -> Ti -> Se -> Fi -> Si -> Fe -> Ni -> Te
    Si -> Fe -> Ni -> Te -> Ne -> Ti -> Se -> Fi

    Observes external field dynamics of accepted possibilities.

    Observes subjective perception of produced objective conclusions.

    Accepts role of anticipating event evolution paths.

    Observes binding ties in the context of feelings.

    Receives suggestions regarding the influence of external field
    dynamics on potentials.

    Estimates conclusions drawn from subjective experience.

    Experiences personal knowledge of events in time.

    Determines dependence of relational dynamics on feelings.
    ISFp-XXXp

    Si -> Fe -> Ni -> Te -> Ne -> Ti -> Se -> Fi
    Ne -> Ti -> Se -> Fi -> Si -> Fe -> Ni -> Te

    Observes potentials afforded by external field dynamics.

    Observes objective conclusions drawn in the context of subjective
    experiences.

    Accepts role as reckoner of events in time.

    Observes feelings in the context of relational dynamics.

    Observes external field dynamics of suggested possibilities.

    Estimates subjective responses to objective conclusions.

    Experiences personal knowledge of event evolution paths.

    Determines relational dynamics in the context of feelings.

    ESTp-XXXp

    Se -> Ti -> Ne -> Fi -> Ni -> Fe -> Si -> Te
    Ni -> Fe -> Si -> Te -> Se -> Ti -> Ne -> Fi

    Observes evolution paths of accepted events.

    Observes subjective perception of produced objective conclusions.

    Accepts role as representative of external field dynamic
    influence on potentials.

    Observes binding ties in the context of feelings.

    Receives suggestive content regarding events in time.

    Estimates conclusions drawn from subjective experience.

    Experiences personal knowledge of the influence of external field
    dynamics on potentials.

    Determines dependence of relational dynamics on feelings.
    INFp-XXXp

    Ni -> Fe -> Si -> Te -> Se -> Ti -> Ne -> Fi
    Se -> Ti -> Ne -> Fi -> Ni -> Fe -> Si -> Te

    Observes events transpiring at accepted moments in time.

    Observes conclusions in the context of produced subjective
    experiences.

    Accepts role as a representative of possibility.

    Observes dependence of relational dynamics on feelings.

    Observes evolution paths of suggested events.

    Estimates subjective perception of objective conclusions.

    Experiences personal knowledge of external field dynamics
    in the context of possibilities.

    Determines binding ties in the context of feelings.

    ENFp-XXXp

    Ne -> Fi -> Se -> Ti -> Si -> Te -> Ni -> Fe
    Si -> Te -> Ni -> Fe -> Ne -> Fi -> Se -> Ti

    Observes external field dynamics of accepted possibilities.

    Observes binding ties in the context of produced feelings.

    Accepts role of anticipating event evolution paths.

    Observes subjective perception of objective conclusions.

    Receives suggestions regarding the influence of external field
    dynamics on potentials.

    Estimates dependence of relational dynamics on feelings.

    Experiences personal knowledge of events in time.

    Determines conclusions drawn from subjective experience.
    ISTp-XXXp

    The Evolutionary

    Si -> Te -> Ni -> Fe -> Ne -> Fi -> Se -> Ti
    Ne -> Fi -> Se -> Ti -> Si -> Te -> Ni -> Fe


    The Evolutionary is the human form of the "Guiding Hand" principle put
    forward by Adam Smith (The Wealth of Nations). Not content to rely on others
    to do "the right thing", they seek to psychologically coerce mankind towards
    a suitable destiny. Their cold, expressionless eyes bear a sense of
    responsibility for man's welfare and regret for his failures. With elegance
    not unlike that of an angel they position themselves to influence the history
    of man.

    The Evolutionary seeks a role which requires of them insights into the
    future. From these insights they can deduce external object statics:
    injury, life, even death. Their subjective perceptions are unavoidably
    colored by the content of these insights, followed by a field
    static of determination to change history.
    In regard to how to do this they are uncertain and open to possibilites,
    any one of which will evoke a field dynamic. Their acceptance of the best
    available possibility changes their relationship to the world around them
    and triggers an estimated feeling response. This internal field static
    vaguely redefines their relational dynamics and allows them to form the
    bonds they need to overcome their situation. Drawing upon personal
    knowledge they will history into a new direction, redefining external
    field statics and producing a new subjective experience for the world.
    In the wake of this experience a range of new field dynamics emerge, each
    of which allows for the existence of a new potential. The most favorable
    dynamic is accepted and its potential exercised. This potential represents
    new relational opportunities, which in turn imply the emergence of new
    feelings. In the context of these feelings new roles may be considered which
    allow for the observation of new timeframes.

  2. #2
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,632
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Shit, those people have superpowers.

    Anyway, what about the objection I raised in one of my last posts? If you don't know the answer, it's fine.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    TIM
    TiNe
    Posts
    7,967
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Shit, those people have superpowers.

    Anyway, what about the objection I raised in one of my last posts? If you don't know the answer, it's fine.
    Yeah really. Sidis was the INFp form, from what I can figure. Christina Ricci (the beauty in American Beauty) is the ISTp type. And Asuka from Neon Genesis Evangeleon was the ESTp type.

    Henry Kissinger -MAY- be the INTp type, but I'm nowhere near sure. Certainly he attempted to guide the evolution of U.S. policy. (and is still today)

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    41
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    So you want to say because of they want to find someone who's life mission coincides with their own and because thay can see the viewpoint of their dual in the context of their own viewpoint they're some kinda special?

    What got this to do with Human Evolution?


    XXXps share a common belief in their existence due to the necessity of a divine agenda or mission, which is evident to them by personal knowledge. They may go to great lengths to fulfill this agenda, in which they take great pride.
    ..."share a common belief"
    So they could be the first wo come up with that stupid Bible and Jesus thing?

    I dont understand what you want to tell.
    ISTj

  5. #5
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,632
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Christina Ricci (the beauty in American Beauty) is the ISTp type.)
    (mena suvari :wink: )
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    TIM
    TiNe
    Posts
    7,967
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Let's take , for example.

    is a viewpoint which says "what is possible is determined by the external dynamics of fields." Think of external field dynamics as cultural dynamics, like the conflict between the Shia and the Sunni. One field is the Shia, the other is the Sunni. Given their disagreements with each other, what is possible? Conflict, war; XXXp says that only conflict can be imagined given the scope of Sunni-Shia disagreement.

    Basically, these guys perceive the limitations that the world you live in places on your imagination. They also perceive the influence of your imagination on the world you make for yourself. They can know your response to something before you know it yourself, to a very high degree of accuracy if they so choose.

    With this power comes tremendous responsibility. XXXp is charged by their own conscience with the duty of keeping people from engaging in self-destructive patterns of activity. Consider, the same person who instinctively understands that the Sunni and Shia are destined to conflict experiences role: the prognostication of collective relationships in the context of an imagined possibility. In the case of the Sunni-Shia, XXXp says that if they are faced with the possibility of co-government, they will be at each others' throats. Given current events, they forecast the future which will arise from them. From their accepted view of , they produce conclusions as to how decisions will be subjectively perceived.

    XXXp-ESTp, in particular, knew the democratization of Iraq was doomed from the start. Their conclusion: break the country up. (and that's exactly what will happen, because XXXp-ESTps all over the country, even the world are working towards that very end) It's a kind of logic that disdains subjectivity in favor of objective reality.

    ...But there is another side to XXXp-ESTp as well: remember the conditions under which the U.S. went to war in Iraq: XXXp-ESTp saw the invasion as inevitable, and although they forecasted the consequences they did nothing to stop it. To XXXp the future is one great line, not a list of possibilities but rather a straight-shot vector into an all too certain future. The invasion was not destructive to world interests in itself; on the contrary, it removed Saddam Hussein and was therefore constructive. But the U.S. army as it remains poised in Iraq is acting as a roadblock against the natural order of the world, a thwart to evolution. Although XXXp supported the invasion, they are against the continued occupation and in favor of the unrestrained outbreak of conflict between Shia and Sunni. Let history take its course, they say.

    On the other side of the XXX_ divide is XXXj, who actually is working to change the methods of Shia and Sunni's relationship to each other. I'll get to them later.

  7. #7
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    1.) http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prodigal
    2.) Christina Ricci wasn't in American Beauty
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    TIM
    TiNe
    Posts
    7,967
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    *doink* OK, the Addams Family girl, then.

    Prodigious, then.

  9. #9
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    lol

    well if I understand the point of this thread, I'd probably go with "XXXp: The Prodigies of Human Evolution"

    in any case... *tip toes out*
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  10. #10
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Observes Extraverted Intution potentials afforded by Introverted Sensing external field dynamics.
    This guy would be dope at sports.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  11. #11
    In Transition Raver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    TIM
    Ne-IEE 6w7 sp/sx
    Posts
    3,700
    Mentioned
    92 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Interesting, I'm still confused by your theory tcautillldg and probably will always be. However, I'm interested in understanding your goal even though I don't really believe in it. What is the percentage of people that are crosstypes in the world? Also, these new kinds of XXXP crosstypes look like slightly different versions of their original types to me. Like, an ILI-XXXP has the same two dominant functions, but the rest of the functions are slightly different? In what ways is an ILI different from an ILI-XXXP for example?
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-4w5-9w1

  12. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    TIM
    TiNe
    Posts
    7,967
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler
    Interesting, I'm still confused by your theory tcautillldg and probably will always be. However, I'm interested in understanding your goal even though I don't really believe in it. What is the percentage of people that are crosstypes in the world? Also, these new kinds of XXXP crosstypes look like slightly different versions of their original types to me. Like, an ILI-XXXP has the same two dominant functions, but the rest of the functions are slightly different? In what ways is an ILI different from an ILI-XXXP for example?
    ...You are completely misreading the theory.

    The XXXp experiences one function in the context of another. is not the same as -. The former says "Given this possibility the following conclusions may be drawn." The latter says, "This is possible,and this is the conclusion I am drawing regarding it."

    Big difference. The former mixes two perspectives into a single observation. The latter divides them into two distinct thoughts.

  13. #13
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,983
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Would it be like taking a snapshot with one function and looking at it with another...? That would seem.. implausible at first thought. Doesn't the image a function produces have a strongly diminished quality compared to the raw data it was taken from? If I shoot a picture using a 'static' function, what 'dynamic' info is there left for a dynamic function to look at?

  14. #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    TIM
    TiNe
    Posts
    7,967
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat
    Would it be like taking a snapshot with one function and looking at it with another...? That would seem.. implausible at first thought. Doesn't the image a function produces have a strongly diminished quality compared to the raw data it was taken from? If I shoot a picture using a 'static' function, what 'dynamic' info is there left for a dynamic function to look at?
    Let me share with you a quote by an ISTp-XXXp character. It should illuminate the idea somewhat.

    What we can do is limited.
    For precisely that reason, we need a world that is fitting for us.
    And we are the only ones who can accomplish that.
    Dreams, future, possibilities.
    She was born to put an end to these fleeting illusions.
    Everything follows the destined flow.
    It's more about perceiving the influence of one function on another. In XXXp's case, the functions flow together in a stream... a harmony which permeats their personality. You can even detect this inflection in their speech.

  15. #15
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,632
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Tcaud - what we are asking is, HOW does this happen?
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  16. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    TIM
    TiNe
    Posts
    7,967
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    In terms of "how", what are you asking? They simply -do- it: they believe that it is important for them to pay attention to the influence of one function on another.

    All I know to say is that they see a part -or parts- of reality that the rest of us are unaware of. You might perceive a possibility, but not really be able to concentrate on any single part of it. When you try, it begins to diminish in some way. But what if you could analyze it without diminishing it? That's what these people do: they look at the future and see its players, what is motivating them, what they are doing, what they are feeling. They see how groups might respond to each other given interaction.

    The best answer I can give is simply: "evolution". In a sense they really do have a sort of "divine" mission to bring order to a world which seems completely uncertain. Most of us can look at an aspect of reality, but we are incapable of determining what is behind it. It could be anything, we think: it is the way it is because it is that way, with no further explanation. XXXp says "no, there is more to it than that. Look at this over here, and this subjective percept over here. There is actually a quite beautiful order to it all...." When you are presented with this data, you think "well that actually makes a lot of sense... if only I had looked a little harder, I would have seen that myself." But the truth of the matter is, the non-crosstype mind is not wired to see the subconscious details crosstypes do. Let each function handle its own matters, we say. "Don't get bogged down in the details to the point that your imagination is limited to what is before you, and not open to possibilities." XXXp would think that statement naive.

    Perhaps Slava's little aside in the "XXXx" thread a few months back says it best: "I see differentiated people; they don't know how to use their subconscious functions."


    ...Just one more note: I'm not the only one who would like to know how this happens. Most brain research today (if not all of it) is completely ignorant of socionics. I suspect if we subjected a perceiver of a type and a crosstype of the same type to a brain scan and compared, then we would illuminate the brain processes specific to each function quite easily.

  17. #17
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    TIM
    TiNe
    Posts
    7,967
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I'd like to emphasize that I'm unclear about who most of these people are. If you notice any perspectives expressed by someone who is well known/famous, then please let me know about them. I'll analyze them and get back to you with a reliable type as soon as possible.

    One thing that is worth noting, is that these people have complex hidden agendae. For example, ISTp-XXXp's agenda is "to love with the aim of knowing, or love that produces knowledge."--. INFp's: "understanding that brings love."

    Another thing: it seems to me that the retainer "internal" function is actually the determinant of what form the containing function takes. For example, if by a XXX_ concludes that someone will have a difficult subjective experience due to a conclusion they themselves draw, they will decide against it. (this is probably why "highly gifted" children are described as having greater empathy than normal children) "If you tell them that his father is dead, he'll feel bad." would avoid revealing the truth, perhaps going as far as concealing it with a lie.

  18. #18
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    TIM
    TiNe
    Posts
    7,967
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I believe Robert A. Heinlein (author, "Stranger in a Strange Land") was an ISTp-XXXp. What do you think?

  19. #19

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    1,158
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    "Given this possibility the following conclusions may be drawn." The latter says, "This is possible,and this is the conclusion I am drawing regarding it."
    One seems like an extrapolation simulator, and the other seems like a database
    -Slava


    What a great replacement for a nany

  20. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    TIM
    TiNe
    Posts
    7,967
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Slava: Yes, indeed....


    After further analysis, I have concluded that Christina Ricci may not be an XXXp (I'm starting another topic regarding what may be her type...); although Tilda Swinton (who played the arch-angel Gabriel in Constantine, and the Witch in The Chronicles of Narnia) is an excellent example of the ISTp form of the type.

  21. #21
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    TIM
    TiNe
    Posts
    7,967
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Hey labcoat... I expected you and snegledmaca to take this and run with it, and Cone's non-responses have been particularly disappointing. This isn't the grand socion destiny debate I had hoped for....

  22. #22
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,983
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Talk about giving too much credit. I'm having hard enough a time seeing socionics at work in the people around me, let alone cross-type features in historical figures...

    But if you want a debate, how about answering these:

    - You're calling crosstypes undifferentiated, but why use that word? Aren't their functions further differentiated than ours? And if a further differentiation can happen, why doesn't it happen in the way you'd expect it to, eg. through the separation of another independant dichotomy in information?

    - Your diagram makes it seem as if these combined functions work jointly in much the same way as dual-seeking combinations of functions do (for example Ti-Fe). Is the difference that in a crosstyped person, both functions are at the control of the person's consciousness?

    - Related to the last question, I remember a post you wrote long ago (divergent perspectives on a ball) in which you seemed to equate the use of unconscious functions to the experience of 'reality'. What is the conscequence of this on crosstyped people? Do they experience reality at all?

    - I still have only a very vague conception of what a 'context line' is, and how crosstypes tie into them. Any clarification on this would be good, too.

    I can't say anything of significance about your theory until I at least have an answer to those, and I doubt I could even then. As much as I trust you have based this all on something substantial, I can not blindly trust your intuition. I would never want anyone to trust my intuition that carelessly either.

  23. #23
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    TIM
    TiNe
    Posts
    7,967
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat
    Talk about giving too much credit. I'm having hard enough a time seeing socionics at work in the people around me, let alone cross-type features in historical figures...

    But if you want a debate, how about answering these:


    - You're calling crosstypes undifferentiated, but why use that word? Aren't their functions further differentiated than ours? And if a further differentiation can happen, why doesn't it happen in the way you'd expect it to, eg. through the separation of another independant dichotomy in information?
    Respect for Jung, mostly. But your right: his use of the term is antiquidated in light of our current understanding. I am hestiant to suggest this openly though, because there are some here who are hostile to anything "beyond Jung". (from what I can tell)

    Their functions are dependent on each other, is a better way to express the relationship. There are apparently links in the brain chemistry (between systems/regions) that are not found in normal types.

    - Your diagram makes it seem as if these combined functions work jointly in much the same way as dual-seeking combinations of functions do (for example Ti-Fe). Is the difference that in a crosstyped person, both functions are at the control of the person's consciousness?
    Precisely.

    - Related to the last question, I remember a post you wrote long ago (divergent perspectives on a ball) in which you seemed to equate the use of unconscious functions to the experience of 'reality'. What is the conscequence of this on crosstyped people? Do they experience reality at all?
    Yes, although it is a deeper, more "mystical" and mysterious experience, as we define those terms.

    - I still have only a very vague conception of what a 'context line' is, and how crosstypes tie into them. Any clarification on this would be good, too.
    Let's distance ourselves from the context debate for now... we'll come back to it.

    I can't say anything of significance about your theory until I at least have an answer to those, and I doubt I could even then. As much as I trust you have based this all on something substantial, I can not blindly trust your intuition. I would never want anyone to trust my intuition that carelessly either.
    That's unfortunate.

  24. #24
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    TIM
    TiNe
    Posts
    7,967
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I've revised the ISTp-XXXp description with a detailed functional relations analysis.

    Here is an interview with Tilda Swinton. It captures the ISTp-XXXp character precisely.
    http://www.splicedonline.com/01features/tswinton.html
    And another:
    http://observer.guardian.co.uk/magaz...587905,00.html
    http://www.timeout.com/film/news/692.html

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •