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Thread: New Member, INTj, and about my boredom

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    Default New Member, INTj, and about my boredom

    Hello, I have been a lurker for a while now and finally decided to get an account to share a dilemma and hopefully get some advice.

    I am an INTJ, and I am completely bored with my life. I am a college student (23 years old), taking a full course-load (18 credits) and will probably take even more next semester. I work full-time as an IT Specialist, as well as running a computer consulting business on the side, a second business (in the works) and helping a friend with the business side of starting his own business (accounting, paperwork, etc). I am in school studying management, as I need to earn a degree before I can study law -- my goal is to study corporate law as part of a different business idea I have (more details available if desired).

    Anywho, I am completely bored. My school work doesn't challenge me. My work doesn't challenge me. I seem to excel without putting forth any effort, and this sickens me. I need a challenge, but don't really know what to do. Anyone have any ideas, suggestions, or simply want to commiserate?

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    You can probably stop working, flunk out of school, and go homeless; that would make life interesting. I wouldn't try it ...

    But seriously ... it is boring being successful all the time. Although
    most people would probably end up working themselves to death long before the could get to where you are right now. I know I would.

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    I think part of the problem is that I really don't care too much about my work or my school stuff. That is, I'm only working so I can afford to attend school and I'm only attending school to get the credentials to undergo my next endeavor.

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    Have you tried any hobbies?
    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Holy mud-wrestling bipolar donkeys, Batman!

    Retired from posting and drawing Social Security. E-mail or PM to contact.


    I pity your souls

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    I play the guitar, piano, and I am working on the violin. When I have time, at least.

    I suppose the only practical 'solution' is to either suck it up and stop whining about being bored with the choices I made or alter said choices and find some other way to achieve my eventual goals. Or some third option I haven't yet decided upon, possibly involving marrying a 98 year-old billionaire who will leave her entire fortune to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmcnew
    it is boring being successful all the time.
    Amen.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    you should swim to africa and back to pass the time.

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    Why don't you figure out ways to prevent climate change,


    You can work on challenging yourself to do more, and not just think about yourself, or how bored and smart you are.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Not to get too terribly off the subject, but who says the current climate change is a bad thing? We haven't been studying the climate long enough to really say whether the warming period we're going through is something to worry about or not, in regards to whether we are responsible for it or not.

    In regards to challenging myself, I'm all for it. I just don't have a clue what I could do to challenge myself. I really don't care about environmental stuff, as you seem to. I was really looking more for commiseration than actual solutions anyways, as it is hard to make a recommendation for someone you don't know.

    As for making the world a better place, you'd have to define what is wrong with the world, which is horribly subjective and ethnocentric, so anything said about it would be biased to the point of being irrelevant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpbailey
    Not to get too terribly off the subject, but who says the current climate change is a bad thing? We haven't been studying the climate long enough to really say whether the warming period we're going through is something to worry about or not, in regards to whether we are responsible for it or not.
    lies lies lies

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    The earth is 6 billion years old. We've only had the technology to accurately measure the weather for the past 200 or so. Furthermore, most of our older studies were conducted in cities which become heat islands ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_heat_island ), rendering the readings suspect.

    I'm not doubting that the earth is warming now than it was a decade ago, I'm just saying that I can't say whether humans are responsible or whether it is even something to worry about. And without sufficient numbers, all we have are biased opinions on both sides of the argument.

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    i am going to refrain from responding because i am absolutely sick of this debate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpbailey
    The earth is 6 billion years old. We've only had the technology to accurately measure the weather for the past 200 or so. Furthermore, most of our older studies were conducted in cities which become heat islands ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_heat_island ), rendering the readings suspect.

    I'm not doubting that the earth is warming now than it was a decade ago, I'm just saying that I can't say whether humans are responsible or whether it is even something to worry about. And without sufficient numbers, all we have are biased opinions on both sides of the argument.

    Run for president. You've got a good change of winning
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpbailey
    In regards to challenging myself, I'm all for it. I just don't have a clue what I could do to challenge myself. I really don't care about environmental stuff, as you seem to. I was really looking more for commiseration than actual solutions anyways, as it is hard to make a recommendation for someone you don't know.

    As for making the world a better place, you'd have to define what is wrong with the world, which is horribly subjective and ethnocentric, so anything said about it would be biased to the point of being irrelevant.
    so you're trying to put an erudite spin on wussing out of a real challenge. Very well then. If you are so satisfied with small time successes, maybe you aren't really an INTJ.


    There is nothing to challenge you because you realize that if you look for one sincerely, you won't have anything to back you up. So you will only stick to things you know you can "be #1 at" in the meantime.


    Alright, set up a space program so that the people of earth can escape if a huge meteor is coming our way, or if we suddenly discover a roaming backhole coming our way, or other world huge disaster. Come up with backup plans.

    !!! before you do that, figure out a way for the world to accept/fund/get behind that.

    You need to think bigger if you want a bigger challenge.


    Or at the very least, figure out how to deal with your own life and stop asking others to give you ego fodder.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Hmmm, rollings eyes.

    In my defense, I think the current administration sucks, and I do feel a bit of malaise at toting their agenda there. The Republican party has strayed from their party's principles, and are a mockery of everything the party once stood for.
    However, the Democrats also have an agenda they are trying to push so you can't automatically assume one side is right if the other side is wrong.

    I think that we don't have enough data to accurately state what is going on and that more research is necessary. I think people need to start being less wasteful and minimizing our effect on the environment, but I'm not convinced as yet that we, all by ourselves, are causing the weather change. Perhaps it is part of the natural cycle of the world and we just are taking too small a view on things?

    As for running for President, I'm pretty much a Libertarian and I suspect the sun will explode before there is a Libertarian government.

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    There is nothing to challenge you because you realize that if you look for one sincerely, you won't have anything to back you up. So you will only stick to things you know you can "be #1 at" in the meantime.


    Alright, set up a space program so that the people of earth can escape if a huge meteor is coming our way, or if we suddenly discover a roaming backhole coming our way, or other world huge disaster. Come up with backup plans.

    !!! before you do that, figure out a way for the world to accept/fund/get behind that.

    You need to think bigger if you want a bigger challenge.
    I agree! The reason I'm focusing on working and going to school is so I can get the credentials to start this business I have an idea for, which I unfortunately need some clout to get going due to what it is (it's for an international business, brokering exchanges between two countries. I can really get into it if you want).

    I'm just saying that I'm bored and unchallenged at this moment and would like some way to deal with that. Although this here seems like a lot of fun, it seems there are very spirited people on this board.

    I was really going for more of a "Yeah, I know what you mean about being bored, Rob. Without a real challenge to occupy me, I could go nuts."
    Commiseration and commradory were actually what I was looking for, not silly arguments over who was destroying the planet the fastest.

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    "Then go talk to a wall."








    That's what I was tempted to say.


    ...anyways, my issues is that I would really like to do something, but I cannot determine very well what is important enough. School is interesting and there are many fields I like, many degree's I'd enjoy pursuing.... but at the same time I want to do something that matters. As you know, it is hard to find something worth it.

    By the by, I was giving you a hard time on purpose. Everything I have said to you also has not yet motivated me to devote myself to it. However, I believe that climate change is an issue, and I think "An Inconvenient Truth" is a great movie for such. I don't know if I'm going to be able to do anything about it, but I am enjoying the new adventure and challenge of joining my college environmental organization.


    Ultimately I think the greatest joy for an LII ( perhaps especially in regard to the INTJ MBTI side of it), is making things work well in reality. Going to the meeting tonight, and seeing how much better things could be done, it was appealing.

    Basically for me.... right now I am just trying to find things worthy enough, and get involved. Doing is more appealing than dealing with the vast metaphysical philosophical things as I have for the last 3 years, nonstop basically. You don't really avoid those issues, no, but 'doing stuff in reality' is at least a way to pass your time.

    LIIs like to find things 'to please society' and find ideas/innovations for such, and I relate. But other than that, yes.... I do feel a sense of boredom..


    If you study socionics for a time, you will see human relations as a very strange program that can leave you disenchanted. But still I realize I am human as well, for what it's worth. So 'doing stuff', and 'making things work well, improvement' seems to be the way to spend my time here.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Don't worry about giving me a hard time, I have a fairly thick skin. And by that, I usually mean that I just plain don't care about that sort of thing.

    I haven't seen "An Inconvenient Truth" yet. I've heard it is good, but again, my thoughts are that there is an agenda being pushed. In this day and age, maybe I'm just optimistic, but I'd like to hear scientific research from scientists and not politicians. I don't believe the Bush camp that "All is well!" and I don't believe the Democrats "We are ruining the earth!" I just don't know enough about it and don't feel that the sources of information are reliable enough to trust.

    As far as pleasing society, that really doesn't appeal to me. In theory, my eventual plans will benefit society, but it's more that I feel something big is coming our way, and I want to leave my little mark on history. Nothing big and flashy, but just something so that I don't wind up forgotten like the countless billions of others in the world.

    You stated that you are in college, what are you studying there? That is, in what direction are you wanting your life to head?

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    Possible Career Paths for the INTJ:

    * Scientists
    * Engineers
    * Professors and Teachers
    * Medical Doctors / Dentists
    * Corporate Strategists and Organization Builders
    * Business Administrators / Managers
    * Military Leaders
    * Lawyers / Attorneys
    * Judges
    * Computer Programmers, Systems Analysts and Computer Specialists

    I really like the idea of business admin/manager. That is appealing -- the directive, entailing aspect of it. So I'm taking some business courses. Accounting is somewhat appealing because it opens up so many doors. Sciences were interesting, but now I feel... dissuaded away from them. I would like to at least minor in a science, just because it is interesting.


    I am most fascinated with 'growth', and personal development, 'evolution' perhaps. That lead me to many things, and the most 'practical' application of such is "leadership". It is somewhat of a mystical idea as it is. Combining visions with reality - that has always been interesting for me.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Very awesome, I am also studying business.

    Are you working on a BA or...? I'm actually working towards an undergraduate degree in business management with an emphasis in accounting, so that's pretty cool that we're right on the same page.

    My eventual goal is to attend a school that offers a joint MBA/Law degree (such as Ross, in Michigan). Corporate Law is what interests me, and I plan to start a business in regards to it, which is why I need to wait to get my degrees -- you shouldn't take legal advice from someone who isn't qualified!

    This is probably a stretch, but have you ever read Atlas Shrugged?

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    Are you working on a BA or...?
    I actually meant to ask if you were working on an MBA, but that was a stupid question so just ignore that sentence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpbailey
    Very awesome, I am also studying business.

    Are you working on a BA or...? I'm actually working towards an undergraduate degree in business management with an emphasis in accounting, so that's pretty cool that we're right on the same page.

    My eventual goal is to attend a school that offers a joint MBA/Law degree (such as Ross, in Michigan). Corporate Law is what interests me, and I plan to start a business in regards to it, which is why I need to wait to get my degrees -- you shouldn't take legal advice from someone who isn't qualified!

    This is probably a stretch, but have you ever read Atlas Shrugged?
    I have not. I've heard of it -- what is it about? I don't remember.

    I might be working on an MBA. I don't know.
    Maybe international business
    Maybe working for a nonprofit that I like (??)
    I don't know. I have no idea really.
    I'm exploring extracurricular stuff this semester, and I'm enjoying it so far -- so we'll see how much more I (continue) gravitate towards leadership positions.

    I just getting into business, so we'll see where it goes.
    I have no real goals or desires, honestly. That's the awkward perk of . I just like things done well.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Atlas Shrugged, by Ayn Rand, is my all-time favorite book. I have an incredibly unhealthy crush on the main character, Dagny Taggart. It's probably the best $5.95 you'll ever spend.

    From Wikipedia:
    The novel's plot is split into three sections. The first two sections, and to some extent the last, follow Dagny Taggart, a no-nonsense railroad executive, and her attempt to keep the company alive despite repeated encroachment by a society falling toward collectivism / altruism / statism.
    ---

    Good luck with your studies, and don't worry about being indecisive. I went to college for two years to be an electrical engineer, burned out and stayed out of school for three years, and I'm just now getting back to it. It's better to play the field than it is to make a poor choice and stubbornly stick with it.

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    That seems to be the case for a lot of people who I consider thoughtful.
    I had my first major crisis last year, and my grades were worst ever, but it was very clear that my thoughts/time/energy were spent elsewhere. I nearly failed one course, but I'll take it over and erase that mark. But now I'm more settled.

    Realizing I don't have to solve all the worlds major problems and philosophical issues right now helped, and even that for the sake of my health I cannot earnestly pursue such an endeavor. Thankfully the INTJ "Does this work?" scientist approach came into play soon enough.


    I'll see you around the forums; it is time for me to retire.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpbailey
    Atlas Shrugged, by Ayn Rand, is my all-time favorite book. I have an incredibly unhealthy crush on the main character, Dagny Taggart.
    Can you see Dagny as an INTj? I'm still not sure what type Ayn Rand was, but I can see her as an INTj (Keirsey types her as INTJ). That Rand was a Tj type is obvious, and I also think that NT is obvious. That would mean that only ENTj or INTj are possible.

    Some people on this forum have strange views on INTjs (LIIs), but in my opinion you and UDP are probably better representatives of that type than most.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Some people on this forum have strange views on INTjs (LIIs), but in my opinion you and UDP are probably better representatives of that type than most.
    Why do you think so? Perhaps you just have a strange view of a certain type (or types) compared to everyone else. And would you (and on what grounds would you) disqualify these strange views of INTjs if they do not conform to your vision of them? Now just for personal curiosity, do you think that I (Logos) am an INTj (LII)? Or am I merely a disillusioned soul of another type? And just to let you know, I am more interested in the "why" than necessarily your conclusion, so do not hesitate (not that you would) with your argument.
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Some people on this forum have strange views on INTjs (LIIs), but in my opinion you and UDP are probably better representatives of that type than most.
    Why do you think so?
    That has become rather obvious in the many debates we have had on the differences between the types, especially INTjs and INTps. My guess is that the main reason is that people mix up the functions and the types while being influenced by two models at the same time -- Socionics and MBTT -- resulting in confused pictures of the real types.

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Perhaps you just have a strange view of a certain type (or types) compared to everyone else.
    No, it is obvious that I haven't. I have clearly similar views of certain types to some people on this forum. But some others have, or at least have had, views on the types that are incompatible with my own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    And would you (and on what grounds would you) disqualify these strange views of INTjs if they do not conform to your vision of them?
    Yes, on the grounds that I seem to take more aspects into consideration in typing than those with the strange views, and that my understanding of the types seem to be roughly the same as those of "official" Socionics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Now just for personal curiosity, do you think that I (Logos) am an INTj (LII)? Or am I merely a disillusioned soul of another type?
    I have so far seen no reason to doubt that you are an INTj. Most of the people with strange views on INTjs are not INTjs themselves and don't think that they are. Some people, like myself, Jonathan, and others, may initially think that they are INTjs but change their mind eventually and realize that they are some other type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Some people on this forum have strange views on INTjs (LIIs), but in my opinion you and UDP are probably better representatives of that type than most.
    Why do you think so? Perhaps you just have a strange view of a certain type (or types) compared to everyone else. And would you (and on what grounds would you) disqualify these strange views of INTjs if they do not conform to your vision of them? Now just for personal curiosity, do you think that I (Logos) am an INTj (LII)? Or am I merely a disillusioned soul of another type? And just to let you know, I am more interested in the "why" than necessarily your conclusion, so do not hesitate (not that you would) with your argument.
    I think you should not even waste your time (imho) speaking with him. The only problem with INTj/INTp in the forum is given by Phaedrus, which refuses to admit the obvious and keeps living only in his head, looking only for data that confirms his hypothesis. If we were to remove him from the forum (just as a thought experiment), the ILI/LII problem would be immediatly solved.

    Yes, on the grounds that I seem to take more aspects into consideration in typing than those with the strange views, and that my understanding of the types seem to be roughly the same as those of "official" Socionics.
    Mine too, of course, except with your type - which, actually, is thought about as being LII by any body who dares openly speak his opinion in a noncontraditctory manner.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Mine too, of course, except with your type - which, actually, is thought about as being LII by any body who dares openly speak his opinion in a noncontraditctory manner.
    I do dare speak my opinion. I disagree with Phaedrus in some things, especially concerning LIIs; but I do think he may be an ILI with extreme obstinate and construct-creating behavior rather than LII. However, I wouldn't take a stong stand on that, either. I agree that his stance and approach does seem , but I think his motivations may be more .
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    The only problem with INTj/INTp in the forum is given by Phaedrus, which refuses to admit the obvious and keeps living only in his head, looking only for data that confirms his hypothesis. If we were to remove him from the forum (just as a thought experiment), the ILI/LII problem would be immediatly solved.
    FDG is either consciously lying here, or he has forgot that there are many other people on this forum who have expressed very similar doubts about the ILI/LII problem as I have. One very clear example is of course Jonathan, who most people saw as an INTj first, but now (for reasons that no one has clearly stated, except Rick) FDG seems to think that Jonathan is an ILI. Another example is niffweed17.

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Mine too, of course, except with your type - which, actually, is thought about as being LII by any body who dares openly speak his opinion in a noncontraditctory manner.
    The funny thing is that I agree with most of the things FDG says about ILIs, and I also identify with almost everything the "ILIs" say about themselves on this forum. It is also very clear that Jonathan and I think in very much the same way, have the same associations, and so on. Some people on this forum have produced very accurate descriptions of ILIs that I fully identify with, for example Expat, Jonathan, Cone, and some others. Even more people have also tried to describe the function, and what they describe is usually strikingly similar to my own thought process.

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    I disagree with Phaedrus in some things, especially concerning LIIs
    If Expat and I have different views on LIIs I haven't noticed it yet. What is extremely clear however, is that I and Expat seem to have very similar views on most (if not all) of the types. It is easy for me to tell that, because Expat is so good at explaining his views clearly. There may be others with the same view on the types as me and Expat, but that is harder to determine since they haven't written so much about it as Expat have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    I agree that his stance and approach does seem , but I think his motivations may be more .
    Well, that is one thing Expat has said that I don't understand. I can't see how one can think of my stance and approach as unless one has a very superficial and primitive understanding of that would make everyone who can think logically and is interested in philosophy and other typical INTP (in the MBTT sense) things a type. I am a rather typical INTP, so if it is so obvious that I am an INTj, I must think that the group of socionic LIIs must consist of most of the INTPs and INTJs in MBTT. And which type(s) in MBTT that would belong to the socionic ILI group would be a mystery. I think it should be rather obvious that I value more than in the socionic perspective.

    I think that Immanuel Kant is a clear example of views and a style of writing. I also think that Bertrand Russell and Karl Popper are extremely clear examples of views and styles of writing. And for some "strange" reason it has always felt much more natural for me to identify with their views than any views of philosophers. Why is it so easy for me to follow the reasonings and identify with the central views and attitudes of thinkers if I am a dominant?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    If Expat and I have different views on LIIs I haven't noticed it yet. .
    Well let's wait until the subject arises again, then I can point it out


    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Well, that is one thing Expat has said that I don't understand. I can't see how one can think of my stance and approach as unless one has a very superficial and primitive understanding of that would make everyone who can think logically and is interested in philosophy and other typical INTP (in the MBTT sense) things a type.
    Your approach can appear according to the arguments Rick made some time ago, but I agree that you do value more and what we see is actually "obstinate ".
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    If Expat and I have different views on LIIs I haven't noticed it yet. .
    Well let's wait until the subject arises again, then I can point it out
    Okay, but I am an impatient man in questions of truth and knowledge. Don't wait too long.

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Your approach can appear according to the arguments Rick made some time ago, but I agree that you do value more and what we see is actually "obstinate ".
    I think that many of Rick's arguments for are bad. He oversimplifies and generalizes things in a way that seem to lead to mistypings, for example the things he said about Fi values in the thread:

    http://the16types.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9306

    Here is an example of a probably false generalization of Rick's from the same thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick
    If we compare Dawkins with Darwin, Dawkins has no problem saying, "yes, people who believe in God are deluded." To me, this is a statement, especially if the people hearing it are in his audience and will inevitably have their feelings hurt.

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    Dawkins has no problem saying, "yes, people who believe in God are deluded." To me, this is a Introverted Thinking statement, especially if the people hearing it are in his audience and will inevitably have their feelings hurt.
    That never fails to crack me up, that people can be so hurt by mere words that are contrary to their beliefs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpbailey
    That never fails to crack me up, that people can be so hurt by mere words that are contrary to their beliefs.
    I agree. And I tend to think that many T types could say something similar to what Dawkins said in a similar manner. I can't see any good reason why it must be .

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpbailey
    Dawkins has no problem saying, "yes, people who believe in God are deluded." To me, this is a Introverted Thinking statement, especially if the people hearing it are in his audience and will inevitably have their feelings hurt.
    That never fails to crack me up, that people can be so hurt by mere words that are contrary to their beliefs.
    They can. It's not just "your beliefs are wrong", which is fine, if followed by a logical explanation. It is "you are deluded if you believe that", which should be rightfully followed by a punch in the face to the person that have said that, or alternatively some swearing directed towards him.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by rpbailey
    Dawkins has no problem saying, "yes, people who believe in God are deluded." To me, this is a Introverted Thinking statement, especially if the people hearing it are in his audience and will inevitably have their feelings hurt.
    That never fails to crack me up, that people can be so hurt by mere words that are contrary to their beliefs.
    They can. It's not just "your beliefs are wrong", which is fine, if followed by a logical explanation. It is "you are deluded if you believe that", which should be rightfully followed by a punch in the face to the person that have said that, or alternatively some swearing directed towards him.
    Basically yes. At that point you switch from attacking the idea to attacking the person, which is where the offense is taken.
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    Oh, of course you wouldn't want to make ad hominem attacks -- those are a logical fallacy anyways. I just meant that I find it funny that people can be so offended when you point out the flaws in their belief system. If there is a valid point to their beliefs, that's one thing, but if a person were to argue for a point that is obviously, completely, and utterly untrue and be offended when confronted with a contrary point, that is what I find amusing.

    I have a few friends who will not discuss religion, politics, or really anything of merit with me, simply because they dislike that I can cite references and such to points of view that are opposite of theirs whereas all their "information" is just stuff they've been told sometime along the way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    It's not just "your beliefs are wrong", which is fine, if followed by a logical explanation. It is "you are deluded if you believe that", which should be rightfully followed by a punch in the face to the person that have said that, or alternatively some swearing directed towards him.
    But many people, including some F types, often say, directly or indirectly that "you are deluded if you believe that". I haven't counted how many times you have said to me that I am deluded or worse, but if you do say similar things to others you must really like to get punches in your face -- and probably be rather disappointed that people don't punch you as much as you repeatedly tell them to do. That only proves Dawkins' point; in many cases it is impossible not to think that other people are deluded, when it is so obvious to you that their beliefs are false. People who believe in God are deluded one way or the other -- that's the simple truth of the matter. How can it be wrong to point that out, especially since they are so eager to brainwash everyone else with their stupidity?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    It's not just "your beliefs are wrong", which is fine, if followed by a logical explanation. It is "you are deluded if you believe that", which should be rightfully followed by a punch in the face to the person that have said that, or alternatively some swearing directed towards him.
    But many people, including some F types, often say, directly or indirectly that "you are deluded if you believe that". I haven't counted how many times you have said to me that I am deluded or worse, but if you do say similar things to others you must really like to get punches in your face -- and probably be rather disappointed that people don't punch you as much as you repeatedly tell them to do. That only proves Dawkins' point; in many cases it is impossible not to think that other people are deluded, when it is so obvious to you that their beliefs are false. People who believe in God are deluded one way or the other -- that's the simple truth of the matter. How can it be wrong to point that out, especially since they are so eager to brainwash everyone else with their stupidity?
    All people are deluded, just some more than others.
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    There are those who are unaware of delusion in general
    and those who are somewhat aware of it

    but yes, everyone is, to some extent.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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