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Thread: Examples of Deltas

  1. #1201
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    first of all Sol is russian. socionics is in his blood. second, expertise in socionics seems to primarily correlate with longevitiy, since people either quit or stick around and since there's no truly objective means of judging accuracy, there needs to be something to hold things together. its like is someone going to learn from someone who is no longer here, what about when they absorb everything, do they move on too. eventually the only continuity and therefore coherence is in a person sticking around. like an oral wisdom tradition. thus sol has a kind of prestige simply in virtue of experience and effort which in lieu of anything better counts for more than nothing. im only half joking with all of this

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsTortilla View Post
    how you became expert at typing
    By common way: knowledge and practice with good results.

    I have practice of many ones typed (IRL and Internet) and watched behavior of them during the years what gave the results which fit good to the theory, including IR effects. IR effects the most noobs do not check what makes their types study worse.
    This positive typing exprience is some higher than at random forum noobs (in several times) and it's positive. I do not get _systematically_ absurd results and then need to use additional baseless hypotheses to claim "it's because the base theory is wrong, let's redefine Jung's functions" or to explain nonsense by subtypes or other heresy. At me the basic theory works as should (mostly, as nontypes factors influence too). Though I do not use much of written by Augustinavichiute and do no trust to some of that qwhere it's too baseless or contradicts to Jung too much. Many ones use doubtful and muddy heresies and then get bs just because of that (like Reinin's dichotomies).
    Also I read normal typology sources to study - several Socionics books, Jung's one, Augustinavichiute's articles, what you and the most here did not. You used lame translations and compilation from random doubtful sources after which thehotelambush may to write nonsense about basic types theory (for example he insisted that Si ego should tire quicker and based this strange interpretation of a citation - he has a hard mess in the head about types and this have appeared because the sources he used to study was the low quality mess too) even after years on this site lol.

    Though I trust to own skills subjectively, like anyone today, I have objective basis to trust them more than to yours, for example.
    While you trust to own typing versions not only redundantly when you get my other opinions. But even do not wish to get common info like a test (what is not hard for relatives) to check better are you correct. The correct types of people you know so good is very important to understand the types. And this another noobs problem - they do not care about the truth to do normal study of types or to use adequate theory, - they just play here. And without serious approach to check what they do, they do not notice how wrong they are and all looks ok for them.

    The higher level of forum idiocy about "types game" is when appear censorship - the rules which forbid discussions about types. So if someone tells he's a unicorn and you disagree - you get a several monthes ban. If a typing noob does not like the type you assigned him in his typing theme - he may demand you to shut up and if you continue to discuss his type in his typing theme - you get the several monthes ban too. This Socionics role playing game is now supported by the mentioned rules at socioforum.
    From what you know about me and you - you'd could to understand our difference in who and why is better expert. Your mind abbilities should allow this. But you do not, - you ask about evident. Why? Because you play in types here and spit on the reason.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  3. #1203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    By common way: knowledge and practice with good results.

    I have practice of many ones typed (IRL and Internet) and watched behavior of them during the years what gave the results which fit good to the theory, including IR effects. IR effects the most noobs do not check what makes their types study worse.
    This positive typing exprience is some higher than at random forum noobs (in several times) and it's positive. I do not get _systematically_ absurd results and then need to use additional baseless hypotheses to claim "it's because the base theory is wrong, let's redefine Jung's functions" or to explain nonsense by subtypes or other heresy. At me the basic theory works as should (mostly, as nontypes factors influence too). Though I do not use much of written by Augustinavichiute and do no trust to some of that qwhere it's too baseless or contradicts to Jung too much. Many ones use doubtful and muddy heresies and then get bs just because of that (like Reinin's dichotomies).
    Also I read normal typology sources to study - several Socionics books, Jung's one, Augustinavichiute's articles, what you and the most here did not. You used lame translations and compilation from random doubtful sources after which thehotelambush may to write nonsense about basic types theory (for example he insisted that Si ego should tire quicker and based this strange interpretation of a citation - he has a hard mess in the head about types and this have appeared because the sources he used to study was the low quality mess too) even after years on this site lol.

    Though I trust to own skills subjectively, like anyone today, I have objective basis to trust them more than to yours, for example.
    While you trust to own typing versions not only redundantly when you get my other opinions. But even do not wish to get common info like a test (what is not hard for relatives) to check better are you correct. The correct types of people you know so good is very important to understand the types. And this another noobs problem - they do not care about the truth to do normal study of types or to use adequate theory, - they just play here. And without serious approach to check what they do, they do not notice how wrong they are and all looks ok for them.

    The higher level of forum idiocy about "types game" is when appear censorship - the rules which forbid discussions about types. So if someone tells he's a unicorn and you disagree - you get a several monthes ban. If a typing noob does not like the type you assigned him in his typing theme - he may demand you to shut up and if you continue to discuss his type in his typing theme - you get the several monthes ban too. This Socionics role playing game is now supported by the mentioned rules at socioforum.
    From what you know about me and you - you'd could to understand our difference in who and why is better expert. Your mind abbilities should allow this. But you do not, - you ask about evident. Why? Because you play in types here and spit on the reason.
    Well that’s very interesting.

    It’s true that I haven’t read everything from the original Russian sources, and that I would say my understanding of socionics was quite limited at first. But I wouldn’t discount the fact that I have been interested in socionics and analyzing people since 2001. I have gotten much better at typing, though certain people still strike me as difficult to type. What you don’t know is that years ago I had already typed my father SLE as well as LSI. But neither type fit him well and after more extensive examination I did come to understand his typing as LSE, fitting much much better for him. The type also makes very good sense when it comes to our Intertype relations and those of his and the rest of our family members. Of course you will say all my family typings are suspect. Do I need to make a thread mapping my family members and their ITR along with photos to prove to you their types?

    I absolutely respect your study and efforts in socionics and I asked how you gained expertise out of mostly genuine interest.

    But I truly and actually don’t think it would be easy or comfortable for me to get my dad to do a test. But even so, I assure you I think it is very important to understand the types of those close to me. You and I are in agreement there. It’s offensive to me that you think I “spit on the reason.” Contrary to your statement, I’m here to learn and share and not just to play. I’m also not a moron, which I suspect you think I am.

    Anyway! I’d like to keep our online discourse friendly. At this point that seems to be up to you.

  4. #1204
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    I think what happens is people have an internal system of Fi/Ne or some such and what socionics tries to do is codify the relationships in logical terms, so people already "know" the socionics phenomenon in their own way, but it doesn't mean socionics is going to conform to that except in its most general contours, thus what may be x in one's personal experience may be y in the system. the reason to adopt a system at all is because the logical relationships are accurate and thorough and consistent, it provides a common language. thus there becomes this push/pull between giving up what one already knows in order to gain more precision by allowing input from the outside. in other words socionics tries to move it in the direction from folk knowledge to a science, but people come in just assuming its a rubber stamp on what they already know,in some sense it is, in another sense it takes what is known only in a hazy sense and turns it into a system (for example there's a difference between a home remedy for a cold and antibiotics). people don't realize in order to achieve uniformity and reliable communication people need to conform to the system, and instead spread confusion by always offering anecdotes in their own language that overwrite the system without even realizing they're doing it (its like people could never begin to develop antibiotics if there was always dispute over whether germs where little blue men or whatever). a lot of the disrespect for "reason" presupposes someone is aware of the ways in which they're contravening what has already been systematically developed and so forth, but they can't be made aware unless they actually allow themselves to meaningfully concede the possibility, so its a vicious circle where inasmuch as they don't think they're wrong they continue spreading ignorance of the system, because to them its real insight. its sort of unavoidable inasmuch as socionics describes a phenomenon susceptible to limitless interpretations and has yet to be imposed as a uniform law on sufficient people to make a tradition out of it, especially in the west. im starting to think what needs to happen is not so much more systematic explication of the underlying principles, but simple demonstrations of typing and types in action, so people can simply see it and understand it that way, rather than try to understand it abstractly, because when the going gets tough people tend to fall back on folk heuristics which distort the system and retard progress, whereas if they had sufficient number of examples they could just imitate and adopt the system that way

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    @Sol My problem with the way you reason is that you don't back your claims with evidence, by citing sources. Yes, you may have access to Russian literature on Socionics and I unfortunetly can't read Russian, but cite them anyways. You make claims "self typing accuracy is below 50 percent" yet you cite no evidence for that statement. Not a single link, not a sinlge reference, nothing. I don't have a problem with telling someone you disagree with their self-typing, though I do think respecting psychological boundries is important. You can tell someone you think they are wrong, but berating them constantly by telling them they are wrong might be going too far, especially if they ask to be left alone. If you are LSE, maybe you are right about my being ILI. It seems I supervise you.

    @MrsTortilla I admire your patience, if someone were typing my family members by one or two photos without knowing them, I'm not sure I'd be very patient especially if there is obviosuly some personal bias there on Sol's part...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avebury View Post
    My problem with the way you reason is that you don't back your claims with evidence
    All today typing is speculative and hence is not based on objective evidence.
    "citing sources" would not made the typing process objective
    Last edited by Sol; 08-10-2018 at 04:30 PM.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    All today typing is speculative and hence is not based on objective evidence.
    "citing sources" would not made the typing process objective like you senselessly have claimed this

    You problem is that you hold your wrong opinion about type of someone when I disagree with it and reject the evidence that your opinion is also much speculative. Besides your worse typing skills by the objective reasons I said above and heretic theories usage.

    Your mind is very speculative even in dealing with common and simple logic like is seen here or how you argumented by evident nonsense the existence of clear type at any mythic character. While in more complex questions like typology and typing process it should be messed drastically. To the degree there is no sense to try to discuss it with you as you do not follow common logical processes.

    You don't make sense. You say there is no objective typing method, then you (again) make claims about evidence proving me wrong when two sentences eariler you claimed there is no such evidence when it comes to typing.

    You know what I think? I think you just can't stand when someone challenges your typings or conclusions, you get defensive because you see it as an attack on your "authority", whatever that may be...

    Btw, I never said that mythological characters have types, I said they are archetypes in the Jungian sense, and thus do not have types. I did say fictional characters often have types to the extent they are based on real people.
    Last edited by Avebury; 08-10-2018 at 02:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    All today typing is speculative and hence is not based on objective evidence.
    "citing sources" would not made the typing process objective like you senselessly have claimed this

    You problem is that you hold your wrong opinion about type of someone when I disagree with it and reject the evidence that your opinion is also much speculative. Besides your worse typing skills by the objective reasons I said above and heretic theories usage.

    Your mind is very speculative even in dealing with common and simple logic like is seen here or how you argumented by evident nonsense the existence of clear type at any mythic character. While in more complex questions like typology and typing process it should be messed drastically. To the degree there is no sense to try to discuss it with you as you do not follow common logical processes.
    @Sol , I have to agree with Avebury in that it is apparent you just can’t stand to have your typings challenged. And, if you were really using logical principles better than everyone else here, you would see the need to back up your claims. We would be pretty foolish to blindly trust every typing you make and every statement you make, simply because it’s you who are making them.

    @Avebury , thanks for thinking me patient. It’s something I’m working on. ;-) It’s clear Sol mostly doesn’t like the typing of my dad because he can’t relate to him. But that does not always preclude a typing. There are many ESI typings I see where I can’t relate to that person. Oh well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    first of all Sol is russian. socionics is in his blood
    Socionics is in blood of Swisses and "Lithuanians". Russians have it in the brain only.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  10. #1210
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    Sylvie Guillem Delta NF

    Επί πάντων μέμνησο τα έσχατά σου, και ου μη αμαρτήσης

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    Quote Originally Posted by kalinoche View Post
    Sylvie Guillem Delta NF

    To me she comes across as SLE

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    Quote Originally Posted by kalinoche View Post
    Sylvie Guillem Delta NF


    I would call her LSI, since she looks almost exactly like my last LSI GF, right down to the sharp features, logical looks, long red hair with bangs, and the occasional flash of a smile. And I mean, exactly.
    I can't ethically post a picture of her, but now I don't have to. This is what she looks like.

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    Sylvie Guillem - T
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    probably ISTP. while Dario Nardi mb ENFP

    > also, what type is Olena? I really like her voice and general style

    mb EII
    I was re watching this hangout with Dario and he says he gets typed NFP a lot based on how he knows he presents himself

    Olena is still the best

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand
    he says he gets typed NFP a lot based on how he knows he presents himself
    I type by nonverbal. He is such anywhere and can't change that.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    EIE

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    I'm pretty sure Maria is typed IEI. one thing if you watch all those hangouts is how all the IEIs have a really sort of insecure quality to them where they stutter and hesitate a lot. whereas here (on 16 types) the image of IEI is like this self confident cheeky future seer, or super glamorous Fe poet like Jared Leto, but the reality is most are a lot less heroic
    Last edited by Bertrand; 08-13-2018 at 09:49 PM.

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    this is elena (?)

    this is olena (EIE by Gulenko)

    this is maria (IEI by Dr. G)

    just so we're clear. I'm not sure what type elena is

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    elena has a headshape I associate with alpha, but I'd like to find a source on her type by G

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    not a bad guess, I think, since Gulenko says people shift toward semi dual as they age, so whether SEI or SLE they both have that relationship to one another. I was thinking SEI myself, since she doesn't seem to have the same vertical relationship to G as Damon (SLE), for example, exhibits in that other video. then again this could be subtype related. this is of course rampant speculation. Interestingly G types hillary clinton as SLE for some further comparison. I actually have used a hillary avatar for over a decade (long before she ran for pres) on steam so I wonder what that says about me

    e58892915dd532b13c4aed2ed641338a826afc95_full.jpg

    I remember joking with my then girlfriend about how we both hated Trump but didn't like Hillary either, and she loved it when I characterized Hilary as a "mean grandma"


    I'm also 99% sure Gulenko and co. consider type when setting up these hangouts, I get the feeling they incorporate certain types on purpose. of course thats just a guess. but you never see any gammas and the only delta has been SLI. Gulenko seems to like IEIs (even though they almost never say anything and are just there) and other alphas the most. this could be just coincidence since maybe these are the types that just are most interested in type to begin with or a part of his school. I go back and forth on ben, sometimes I really doubt he's LII and he seems almost like ESE to me, but its hard to say really. I see G allude to ben being an non standard version of LII and I wonder if he means that or if hes just trying to avoid having to tell ben straight up hes not what he thinks he is. honestly I try to reserve judgement because I feel like I could be way wrong, since all we see are these hangouts where he's intentionally the moderator trying to keep things going, not to mention there are Ti base actors and so forth. so we might just be seeing a really one sided portrayal. often he has what I see as Ne HA moments though. I get the feeling Gulenko intentionally chose ben to be the link to the west because of how ben seems to run off enthusiasm alone. I think I see what could be an underlying calculus, but then again maybe the whole thing emerged organically, but I think G is more strategic in how he does stuff than is immediately obvious
    Last edited by Bertrand; 08-14-2018 at 03:22 AM.

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    yeah that makes sense to me, but its funny because ben seems more energetic than elena, and yet ben is supposed to be the IJ. perhaps its just the roles inherent to the hangout. i guess if you look as ben as shifted toward hamlet and elena toward maxim I can see that, but its confusing since at what point is someone just their semi dual and not the shifted base type. it is an enigma. i guess it really does come down to underlying machinery and not the surface manifestations, maybe the whole semi dual thing is a false lead anyway. I would love to see Dr. G do an entire hour just talking to each of them about their type and describing various aspects of themselves and these sorts of issues. its funny because theyll bring in 3rd parties, but its the baseline group I want to see analyzed the most
    Last edited by Bertrand; 08-14-2018 at 03:35 AM.

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    Imogensky (Ben Vaserlan) - IEE [1:14:31]


    Anna (Ben Vaserlan) - IEE [0:01]
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Silvio Rodriguez in his younger years, my mirror I believe, EII-Ne. Swoon


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    Oscar Isaac LSE?


    Talks about how acting is a way for him to express emotions he can't express otherwise, a lot of stuff about building a character being a "process" and wanting to work on acting as a "craft", which struck me as Te way to talk about it. I think he playfully uses Se occasionally and seems to tap into Fe role on chat shows but barely uses it at all in this low-key interview.
    "I take back like half of the exclamation points.....they make me look....eager to please. Which I AM....but I don't want anyone to KNOW that"
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    Currently typing as IEE-Fi Type 7 Sx / Sp. Tell me here if you disagree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrrrmaid View Post
    Oscar Isaac LSE?


    Talks about how acting is a way for him to express emotions he can't express otherwise, a lot of stuff about building a character being a "process" and wanting to work on acting as a "craft", which struck me as Te way to talk about it. I think he playfully uses Se occasionally and seems to tap into Fe role on chat shows but barely uses it at all in this low-key interview.
    I think he is SLI-te subtype sx first, he moves exactly like Micheal Fassbender

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guillaine View Post
    I think he is SLI-te subtype sx first, he moves exactly like Micheal Fassbender
    Since this was one my first attempts at typing a celebrity I'm glad you saw similar things as me. Typing him as my dual seems a little like wish fulfilment .
    This interview (and another one done by the same channel) did make me think SLI but I went LSE because in front of a camera / audience he becomes very lively, expressive and charming. Whereas from what I've seen of Michael Fassbender he never turns that on and always seems slightly awkward on talk shows. I figured that was Fe-role vs Fe-PolR. Though I did read an interview - and I can't find it now - but Isaac said something like he met his wife when he was at an industry party his manager forced him to go to and in protest he went dressed still in the clothes of the character he was filming at the time (Llewyn Davis) and sat eating food away from everyone else until a woman made a beeline past the more famous people to the grumpy weirdo in the corner. If that doesn't sound like stereotypical SLI-IEE I don't know what does.

    EDIT:
    As in, this is as about as expressive as I can find Fassbender getting:


    vs.
    Last edited by mrrrmaid; 08-17-2018 at 08:26 AM.
    "I take back like half of the exclamation points.....they make me look....eager to please. Which I AM....but I don't want anyone to KNOW that"
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    Currently typing as IEE-Fi Type 7 Sx / Sp. Tell me here if you disagree.

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    that guys body language is night and day with fassbender. fassbender is restricted, controlled. that guy is lively. fass fits Si, that guy fits Demonstrative Se (aka lse has).

    one could even say what ive defined as "Si" could be "Ti", so fass would be showing his Demonstrative too... but its more easily understood if i just call it Si.


    idk if the guy is lse or if fass is sli im just voicing my opinion i disagree theyre the same.... or even fundamentally similar...
    only Notifications i check asap are PMs

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    Quote Originally Posted by crAck View Post
    that guys body language is night and day with fassbender. fassbender is restricted, controlled. that guy is lively. fass fits Si, that guy fits Demonstrative Se (aka lse has).

    one could even say what ive defined as "Si" could be "Ti", so fass would be showing his Demonstrative too... but its more easily understood if i just call it Si.


    idk if the guy is lse or if fass is sli im just voicing my opinion i disagree theyre the same.... or even fundamentally similar...
    Yeah I thought demonstrative Se too but wasn't confident enough to really call it. I think if you watch the interview above where he's just in a hotel room they are more similar and he is more clearly delta ST and moves a lot like Fassbender when Fassbender is in the same setting. It is the presence of an audience that divides them, with Fassbender becoming more restricted than usual and Isaac becoming more lively.
    "I take back like half of the exclamation points.....they make me look....eager to please. Which I AM....but I don't want anyone to KNOW that"
    - Carrie Fisher

    Currently typing as IEE-Fi Type 7 Sx / Sp. Tell me here if you disagree.

  30. #1230
    Guillaine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crAck View Post
    that guys body language is night and day with fassbender. fassbender is restricted, controlled. that guy is lively. fass fits Si, that guy fits Demonstrative Se (aka lse has).

    one could even say what ive defined as "Si" could be "Ti", so fass would be showing his Demonstrative too... but its more easily understood if i just call it Si.


    idk if the guy is lse or if fass is sli im just voicing my opinion i disagree theyre the same.... or even fundamentally similar...

    thanks for the correction. Fass is sli te, you know what after watching that second vid Ithink the other guy is ESE-Si

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    Oscar Isaac - EIE
    Micheal Fassbender - EII
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Oscar Isaac - EIE
    lol now I've seen him typed as every ExxJ type. But yes, I take this over ESE. I don't see him as alpha.
    And I take back my LSE typing since that Jimmy Fallon interview is way too Fe to be role I think. I forgot just how expressive he is. EIE seems right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Michael Fassbender - EII
    Do you have a reason for this one beyond VI? I don't have an opinion on him, I just went with Guillaine, but would be interested to hear your thoughts.
    "I take back like half of the exclamation points.....they make me look....eager to please. Which I AM....but I don't want anyone to KNOW that"
    - Carrie Fisher

    Currently typing as IEE-Fi Type 7 Sx / Sp. Tell me here if you disagree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrrrmaid View Post
    Do you have a reason for this one beyond VI?
    my IR impressions

    I trust more to this, than what a human may say publicly. And to some degree what can be known about him, as behavior is not only from Jung's types. When my impressions from nonverbal give a clear type, without contradictive impressions - I'm sure in the type and so may do not use other data.
    VI is not based on the clouds. I check peoples behavior IRL to fit the VI impressions I get from them. Also I take into account IR with my type. Do this for many years.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    mrrrmaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    my IR impressions

    I trust more to this, than what a human may say publicly. And to some degree what can be known about him, as behavior is not only from Jung's types. When my impressions from nonverbal give a clear type, without contradictive impressions - I'm sure in the type and so may do not use other data.
    VI is not based on the clouds. I check peoples behavior IRL to fit the VI impressions I get from them. Also I take into account IR with my type. Do this for many years.
    Yeah I didn't mean to suggest that VI / IR aren't genuine reasons for typing or doubting your typing abilities. More that I can't learn from "my IR impressions" and I was hoping to increase my understanding of types.
    "I take back like half of the exclamation points.....they make me look....eager to please. Which I AM....but I don't want anyone to KNOW that"
    - Carrie Fisher

    Currently typing as IEE-Fi Type 7 Sx / Sp. Tell me here if you disagree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrrrmaid View Post
    Yeah I didn't mean to suggest that VI / IR aren't genuine reasons for typing or doubting your typing abilities.
    VI uses "mysterious" intuition. We are inclined to doubt in such methods by today culture. If not now, but later you'd do and I acted to forestall this.

    > More that I can't learn from "my IR impressions" and I was hoping to increase my understanding of types.

    Try my IR test. It's based on IR impressions. At least, you'll can understand how differently you perceive people of different types as I understand them.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Oscar Isaac - EIE
    Micheal Fassbender - EII
    Sol you are right about Fassbender- I could not see it. Now I need to retype someone I know in real life. This is an interview with him and his wife. I just know one anecdote about him from when he was filming Jane Eyre, apparently he is a good horseman and for some reason whenever he sat on the horse they filmed with the horse got an erection and they had to stop filming and cool it down so to speak. Doesn't really say so much about type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guillaine View Post
    for some reason whenever he sat on the horse they filmed with the horse got an erection and they had to stop filming and cool it down so to speak
    Probably being a "good horseman" he dealed recently with a mare which had an estruation, so pheromones could to be left on his things and partly on him through their usage.

    Alicia Vikander - IEI
    Potentially not easy choice. The initiator of the union I suppose was the woman, which wanted his help in money/career (Se). EII take sexual relations more seriously than average and younger woman was the strong temptation for him. With close types it seems as the union of pals for the cooperation than else. Sooner or later they have high chance to get the external relations, though the marriage may be kept.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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