View Poll Results: what type was he?

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  • ILE (ENTp)

    0 0%
  • SEI (ISFp)

    0 0%
  • ESE (ESFj)

    0 0%
  • LII (INTj)

    0 0%
  • SLE (ESTp)

    0 0%
  • IEI (INFp)

    2 40.00%
  • EIE (ENFj)

    0 0%
  • LSI (ISTj)

    0 0%
  • SEE (ESFp)

    0 0%
  • ILI (INTp)

    0 0%
  • LIE (ENTj)

    0 0%
  • ESI (ISFj)

    0 0%
  • IEE (ENFp)

    0 0%
  • SLI (ISTp)

    0 0%
  • LSE (ESTj)

    0 0%
  • EII (INFj)

    3 60.00%
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Thread: Søren Kierkegaard

  1. #1
    Dioklecian's Avatar
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    Default Søren Kierkegaard

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%B8ren_Kierkegaard

    "There are three existence-spheres: the esthetic, the ethical, the religious. The metaphysical is abstraction, and there is no human being who exists metaphysically. The metaphysical, the ontological, is, but it does not exist, for when it exists it does so in the esthetic in the ethical, in the religious, and when it is, it is the abstraction from or a something prior to the esthetic, the ethical, the religious. The esthetic sphere is only a transition sphere, and therefore its highest expression is repentance as a negative action. The esthetic sphere is the sphere of immediacy, the ethical the sphere of requirement (and this requirement is so infinite that the individual always goes bankrupt), the religious the sphere of fulfillment, but, please note, not a fulfillment such as when one fills an alms box or a sack with gold, for repentance has specifically created a boundless space, and as a consequence the religious contradiction: simultaneously to be out on 70,000 fathoms of water and yet be joyful. Just as the ethical sphere is a passageway-which one nevertheless does not pass through once and for all-just as repentance is its expression, so repentance is the most dialectical. No wonder, then, that one fear it, for if one gives it a finger it takes the whole hand. Just as Jehovah in the Old Testament visits the iniquities of the fathers upon the children unto the latest generations, so repentance goes backward, continually presupposing the object of its investigation. In repentance there is the impulse of the motion, and therefore everything is reversed. This impulse signifies precisely the difference between the esthetic and the religious as the difference between the external and the internal."






    quotes:

    "What I really need is to get clear about what I must do, not what I must know, except insofar as knowledge must precede every act. What matters is to find a purpose, to see what it really is that God wills that I shall do; the crucial thing is to find a truth which is truth for me, to find the idea for which I am willing to live and die."

    "Above all do not forget your duty to love yourself; do not permit the fact that you have been set apart from life in a way, been prevented from participating actively in it, and that you are superflous in the obtruse eyes of a busy world, above all, do not permit this to deprive you of your idea of yourself, as if your life, if lived in inwardness, did not have just as much meaning and worth as that of any human being in the eyes of all-wise Governance, and considerably more than the busy, busiest haste of busy-ness - busy with wasting life and losing itself."

    "The eternal fears no future, hopes for no future, but love possesses everything without ceasing, and there is no shadow of variation. As soon as he returns to himself, he understands this no more. He understands what bitter experiences have only all too unforgettably inculcated, the self-accusation, if the past has the kind of claim upon his soul that no repentance can entirely redeem, no trusting in God can entirely wipe out, but only God himself in the inexpressible silence of beatitude. The more of the past a person’s soul can still keep when he is left to himself, the more profound he is."

    "To be a teacher does not mean simply to affirm that such a thing is so, or to deliver a lecture, etc. No, to be a teacher in the right sense is to be a learner. Instruction begins when you, the teacher, learn from the learner, put yourself in his place so that you may understand what he understands and the way he understands it."

    "Seek first God's Kingdom, that is, become like the lilies and the birds, become perfectly silent — then shall the rest be added unto you."

    "The more one suffers, the more, I believe, has one a sense for the comic. It is only by the deepest suffering that one acquires true authority in the use of the comic, an authority which by one word transforms as by magic the reasonable creature one calls man into a caricature."




    Last edited by silke; 08-20-2014 at 11:00 PM. Reason: updated links
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

  2. #2
    he died with a felafel
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    Default Re: Kierkegaard

    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    dio, posting a wikie link on here doesn't help in the least (we can all wikie Kirkie on owr own

    For what i can recall, infj, intp and intj have all been suggetsed for him.

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    rick has him INFp. i don't know too much about him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    rick has him INFp. i don't know too much about him.
    That's one of my less responsible typings, done after a superficial review of short bios and pictures. I'm open to alternatives.

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    It is possible that he is an INFp still though, but I believe that he is probably an INFj. The logic of his philosophy proposes a system of faith built upon over and , which are the functions which attempt to rationalize religion, something that Kierkegaard vehemently opposed.
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    i agree with infj

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    Dioklecian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick
    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    rick has him INFp. i don't know too much about him.
    That's one of my less responsible typings, done after a superficial review of short bios and pictures. I'm open to alternatives.
    It seems sensible to me.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Dioklecian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    It is possible that he is an INFp still though, but I believe that he is probably an INFj. The logic of his philosophy proposes a system of faith built upon over and , which are the functions which attempt to rationalize religion, something that Kierkegaard vehemently opposed.
    I used to think INFJ before too. Based o nthe same arguments as you (in general).
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

  9. #9
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Default Søren Kierkegaard

    Please type...Please read the intro first

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%B8ren_Kierkegaard

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    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
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    From the secondary sources of which I'm familiar, EII was my first thought. Certainly NF.

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Søren Kierkegaard
    "What I really need is to get clear about what I must do, not what I must know, except insofar as knowledge must precede every act. What matters is to find a purpose, to see what it really is that God wills that I shall do; the crucial thing is to find a truth which is truth for me, to find the idea for which I am willing to live and die."
    It does seem Delta-ish and maybe specifically INFj. At least / I think. I don't know too much about him or his works to really have strong judgment.

    Regardless, it is a great quote, in my opinion.
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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    It does seem Delta-ish and maybe specifically INFj. At least / I think. I don't know too much about him or his works to really have strong judgment.

    Regardless, it is a great quote, in my opinion.
    Remember Ti are obsessed with "the truth"

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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    It does seem Delta-ish and maybe specifically INFj. At least / I think. I don't know too much about him or his works to really have strong judgment.

    Regardless, it is a great quote, in my opinion.
    Finding a purpose and blah blah blah sounds more Ni.

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Remember Ti are obsessed with "the truth"
    True, but all truths are not the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Finding a purpose and blah blah blah sounds more Ni.
    A purpose is /.

    Meaning is /.
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    Yeah, I believe he was ENFp.

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Bump
    (i)NTFS

    An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
    and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Concepts, like individuals, have their histories and are just as incapable of withstanding the ravages of time as are individuals. But in and through all this they retain a kind of homesickness for the scenes of their childhood.
    Soren Kierkegaard

    Don't forget to love yourself.
    Soren Kierkegaard

    Declaring type...LSI

    Far from idleness being the root of all evil, it is rather the only true good.
    Soren Kierkegaard

    Beta...LSI

    I begin with the principle that all men are bores. Surely no one will prove himself so great a bore as to contradict me in this.
    Soren Kierkegaard

    Ti

    It seems essential, in relationships and all tasks, that we concentrate only on what is most significant and important.
    Soren Kierkegaard

    Life is not a problem to be solved, but a reality to be experienced.
    Soren Kierkegaard

    Se

    Marriage brings one into fatal connection with custom and tradition, and traditions and customs are like the wind and weather, altogether incalculable.
    Soren Kierkegaard

    Fe valuing.

  18. #18
    Slippery when wet Simon Ssmall's Avatar
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    I disagree Maritsa, I think he is just using his Id functions.
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    IEI. I read some of Kierkegaard's work several years ago. He always struck me as a religious 'thinker' who sought to remove inquiry of the religious sphere away from the purview of both objective science and reasoned logic. He also tended to emphasize the importance of emotionalism and the subjective experience of the human agent.
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    "Information without energy is useless" Nowisthetime's Avatar
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    I read "The Seducer's Diary" some years ago. It really made an impression in me, it's quite an unconventional book. (I recommend it).

    I agree, he seems IEI.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    WOW I'd never considered IEI, I think that's a really good type consideration.

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    INFp-Fe so/sx
    Last edited by silke; 04-11-2014 at 05:28 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    WOW I'd never considered IEI, I think that's a really good type consideration.
    You narrow Ne is out of order.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    IEI-Fe
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Default Soren Kierkegaard

    Typed as INFP( FiNe) in MBTI, in socionics some type him as INFp but others type him as INFj so I was just curious about how others see him ( typed IEI and EII in an old thread).

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    My gut feeling is LII but it might be wrong. Video???

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    It's pretty unlikely that he had weak Ni:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kierkegaard
    And when the hourglass has run out, the hourglass of temporality, when the noise of secular life has grown silent and its restless or ineffectual activism has come to an end, when everything around you is still, as it is in eternity, then eternity asks you and every individual in these millions and millions about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not.
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    He seems to be EII to me.
    Last edited by Olimpia; 11-20-2017 at 10:59 AM.
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    Strong Ni and Fi, I think IEI 4w5 > EII.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    If you are going by quadra to type him Beta really can't be considered a good option. Unlike Nietzsche who spends a great deal of his time speaking to the importance of changing morals over time, or alpha philosophers like Kant who privilege a style of utilitarian Ethics, Kierkegaard ultimately recommends an individual move away from a concretized system of morals to enter into something of a private relationship with God. This private relationship with God emphasizes the highest endowment of meaning possible and characterizes the individual's movement throughout reality irrevocably once this state is reached. Because of the focus on the emotionality of this relationship, the individual will find themselves gaining all connections to others they have lost in an even strong form than before. I think because the nature of connection is what is ultimately strived for by Kierkegaard and the ability of this to endow meaning he is most likely an lead, and undoubtedly an EII. Most likely EII-Fi subtype. I could see him being Ni most likely in Jung, however. If not EII, ILI-Ni is probably the best type. He seems to truly have a great disregard for Fe/Ti as his Knight of Faith must transcend the ethics they have been brought up with in one full swoop in order to enter into more of an Fi relationship with God. What's more is he seems to privilege the idea of the Knight of Faith being a rather simple individual otherwise who blends in with others, perhaps being something of a simple tax-collector. What is prioritized is his undercover emotional devotion to faith and God, however. This is not to be displayed, or to be used to catalyze social change or renovate ethics. Instead, the individual harmoniously lives in the world while being an undercover devotee to something higher and else. This is a sort of vibe I get from many EIIs quite honestly...they are complacent and kind but underneath their emotions and devotion run strong for something else they feel is divorced from reality and requires no need to explain because it is concretely their valuation and connection to things (thinking like Sufjan Stevens, Charlotte Gainsbourg).

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    I just want to point out Kant is the opposite of utilitarian he is deontological. But I agree with Kierkegaard being EII, he definitely seems Ne over Se

    if he's EIE it would only be in the way Hegel is EIE which is to say he is attempting to sway the course of history

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    Hmm...that's a very Kantian way of looking at it which is respectful. But ultimately while his kingdom of ends is theoretically based upon his theory of mind, it advocates for incredibly utilitarian principles. That was the sort of Kantian side that really annoyed Nietzsche...he felt he found a convoluted theory of mind to simply advocate for a utilitarian ethics. I don't fully agree with that because I think the KVR stands on its own as an important expression for Kant, but he must have had a drive towards a sort of utilitarianism underneath his theory.

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    Other quick note: There are definitely similarities between Kierkegaard and Spinoza (maybe even more so than Nietzsche and Kierkegaard who are commonly compared) who I also see as being a very clear Fi/Te philosopher. I think Spinoza would likely be ILI-Ni with a strong ethical side as opposed to EII however.

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    you can subsume anything into utilitarianism except for pure evil, but it doesn't mean Kant considered himself a utilitarian or that the academy defines him as such. ultimately if you use such a broad definition of utilitarian we are all utilitarians, which is true, but it just kicks it back to Kant to describe the best method of being utilitarian, which the "utilitarians" tend to disagree with, which leaves us where we started

    I think Nietzsche's point was not that Kant was a utilitarian so much as that nature itself imbues humans with the unavoidable quality of either improving mankind or dying out (that which does not kill me makes me stronger). in other words, even the villians, and the saints, and the average, all bring something to the table that has cause for existing because anything completely worthless is selected out over time. in this sense everyone has utility, and Kant too, even as he did a lot of things Nietzsche would call "anti life", the same with Christianity (which was really his beef with Kant, that he was a Christian--and the problem with Christianity is it tends to make a virtue out of subverting this fact of nature, which would be the only form of "true death" were it to succeed). the deal with Nietzsche is he held everything in a dialectic tension such that he can call Kant a utilitarian out of one side of his mouth, anti-life out of the other, and still fully comprehend his base deontological stance. that's what made Nietzsche so sophisticated but at the same time widely misunderstood (to this day), because people read him too straightforwardly. the bottom line is he saw in Kant the desire for the "betterment of humanity" thus a "utilitarian" urge, but he also condemned him for sanctioning a mode of thought (Christianity) that he saw as a credible threat to the future wellbeing of all humanity, inasmuch as it spiritualized weakness, and humanity only exists inasmuch as "the strong survive" so by enshrining this denail it functioned as a kind of "rot" at the center of western culture that would ultimately lead to its downfall

    Jung was actually quite aware of all this, which is why the Jungian take on this Christian dynamic is actually redemptive of the tradition, because in some sense Nietzsche was not wrong. God bless the German idealist tradition

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    Yeah I definitely don't think the many considered himself utilitarian. His project was clearly to enumerate what he saw as the capabilities of the mind and then draw conclusions about what would be best for people to do from this...but personally I see those conclusions as conforming fairly well with a notion of what is best for the greatest number of people.

    I don't think the definition is too broad. This is someone who stated the following:

    “act only in accordance with that maxim through which you can at the same time will that it become a universal law.”

    to me that seems squarely utilitarian.


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    you have to understand that Kant viewed all humans as "mini independent legislators" meaning via their behavior they acted out rules. He said for that behavior to be "moral" it had to be such that, as legislature, the acts they committed had to be of that kind that the rule or principle they were based on could be abstracted out and applied to everyone. Otherwise it was not a rule worth adopting, if for no other reason than it was by definition impossible for everyone to adopt all at the same time and there not be a contradiction, i.e.: it would be irrational.

    utilitarians place no such qualification on behavior in order to consider it "moral" rather they look to the consequences of the act. the act is good inasmuch as the consequences are good. there is no such rational consistency demanded between time and space and the underlying rule. in other words, Kant would say if you act as if "lying is bad" lying is either bad all the time for everyone or it is not strictly speaking bad (there is no absolute prohibition on it). whereas utilitarians would say sometimes lying is good sometimes its bad, depends on the results of the lie. I analogize the difference between Kant and utilitarianism as the difference between LII and ILI

    Kant actually does tend to think lying is bad and that if you have Nazis at your door the best way to deal with that situation is not to lie, but that if people were good Kantians it would preclude an ideology like national socialism from taking root in the first place. he wants to know the absolute value of moral claims not their exigent value in order to derive a foundation for a transcendent morality not just a context bound series of reactions. what ILI disagrees with is if such a thing is even in principle possible. Kant would say something like unless we can drill down to absolute values there is only relativism that is time (4d) space (2/3d) and culturally bound (5d)

  37. #37
    BFGDoomer's Avatar
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    EII with strong Ni. Fi ego seems apparent, IMO.
    “When the heart is right, "for" and "against" are forgotten.”

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    My typing of him is IEI, I intend on writing an analysis on him sometime, at least after I've written about more Delta types.

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    Metaphysician thehotelambush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    It's pretty unlikely that he had weak Ni:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kierkegaard
    And when the hourglass has run out, the hourglass of temporality, when the noise of secular life has grown silent and its restless or ineffectual activism has come to an end, when everything around you is still, as it is in eternity, then eternity asks you and every individual in these millions and millions about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not.
    That's quite dramatic...the epitome of NiFe. Where are people getting FiNe?
    The higher, the fewer

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