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Thread: Differences between ENTp-ILE and ENTj-LIE

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    Default Differences between ENTp-ILE and ENTj-LIE

    How can you how tell them apart?
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    ENTps are likely to make a more playful, "childish" impression; ENTjs, even when trying to be friendly or jokey, are going to make altogether a more somber, restrained impression.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    Thanks

    Are you the woman on the picture?
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    Nope.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Creepy-bg

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    for me...
    ENTp = fun, interresting, "check this shit out! wouldn't it be cool if..."
    -online I tend to feel these emotions behind what they say , :wink:, and

    ENTj = serrious, restrained, "here's a bunch of facts and statistics... now let's all be productive!"
    -online ENTj's feel like this and to me


    pretty much how Expat put it...

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    also I've noticed that the ENTj's on here seem to put alot of stock in being interpreted correctly. They get upset when people read them wrong and go through the effort to point it out when people haven't understood what they've said. They will often make the attempt to clear those thing up to the point of become frustrated and having to say things like "let's agree to disagree" or "your obviously just not capable of understanding what I mean"

    ENTps for the most part don't seem to give a shit either way. Like they just want to say their goofy ideas and theory's and don't look back to see if anybody's actually understood what they said or meant. If somebody stops them to ask, if they even notice, they'll sort of make a game out of it at times. Playing on the fact that the other person doesn't get them.

    Because of this I think ENTj's can come off as much better teachers than ENTps can. An ENTj will generally take the time to explain himself or herself and answer your questions. An ENTp is long gone in another world usually by the time you get around to questioning them and don't really offer up much in the way of explanations. If anything you're likely just to set them off on a totally different tangent that leaves you going "ahhhh?"

    Both these descriptions are horrible steriotypes of course and most likely relationship dependant (other's of a different type probably see it in a totally different way) so don't pay any attention to them

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    The Death Stare. ENTps have it, ENTjs don't.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    ILEs often appear naive, trusting, and carefree.
    LIEs are more often restrained, skeptical of others' intentions, and give off a more "serious" vibe.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    From this thread, it would appear that ENTjs are always super-serious, never laid-back, and never able to relax. While in general they seem more serious than ENTps, I don't think they're always that way.

    In fact, ENTjs like to joke sometimes. Also, I've found that they can be quite willing to relax and chat with friends; generally, they're on top of what needs to get done, so they can afford to relax awhile; they know when they need to get back to work.

    Hence, one might easily mis-type ENTjs as ENps; however, after getting to know them, one finds that they value discipline very highly and set quite standards for themselves and others.

    One thing about ENTjs: They create the impression of "having it all together." Also, their solutions to problems are very situational and focused to the problem at hand; they don't have much of an agenda except that they demand sound logic, discipline, and high standards. Their thinking tends to lead toward solving specific problems and staying focused, and is generally highly relevant, whereas ENTp's thinking tends to lead one to consider completely different paths.

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    Default Re: ENTp/ENTj

    One other thing...ENTjs are often in their element when coordinating the activities of others and telling them what to do. Their leadership still emphasizes fairness, order, discipline, and "doing more."

    ENTp's leadership style is very different. They like to delegate operational details and focus more on ideas. They may be good spokespeople and good at presenting their vision of what should be done, but they don't crave the coordinating of other people's activities as much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    From this thread, it would appear that ENTjs are always super-serious, never laid-back, and never able to relax. While in general they seem more serious than ENTps, I don't think they're always that way.
    It's not about "never" etc, it's about how ENTjs are in relation to ENTps.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    From this thread, it would appear that ENTjs are always super-serious, never laid-back, and never able to relax. While in general they seem more serious than ENTps, I don't think they're always that way.
    It's not about "never" etc, it's about how ENTjs are in relation to ENTps.
    Yeah, it's all supposed to be interpreted as relative.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    The Death Stare. ENTps have it, ENTjs don't.
    So true. ENTjs have the Paranoia Eye Swing. (far worse...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    also I've noticed that the ENTj's on here seem to put alot of stock in being interpreted correctly. They get upset when people read them wrong and go through the effort to point it out when people haven't understood what they've said. They will often make the attempt to clear those thing up to the point of become frustrated and having to say things like "let's agree to disagree" or "your obviously just not capable of understanding what I mean"
    Really? Who does that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    also I've noticed that the ENTj's on here seem to put alot of stock in being interpreted correctly. They get upset when people read them wrong and go through the effort to point it out when people haven't understood what they've said. They will often make the attempt to clear those thing up to the point of become frustrated and having to say things like "let's agree to disagree" or "your obviously just not capable of understanding what I mean"
    Really? Who does that?
    Expat puts in a lot of effort towards clearing up misunderstandings etc.
    He also attempts to point out his reasonings upon request.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    He also attempts to point out his reasonings upon request.
    Yeah, I remember when I used to do that... you know, before I realized that the people here would attempt to drag me into 7 hour debates if I began answering their posts point by point. No matter what I'd say, they'd get further away from my main point trying to argue details that are barely relevant to what I was trying to say and often based on miscommunications. I must admit that it's often tempting to answer their initial responses to something I've said by explaining my reasoning or clearing up communications, but I've learned from experience for a handful of them, this is entirely useless as no amount of explaining will get them to stop trying to engage me in a debate, and that they do not even wish to understand the actual point of what I'm saying because they'd rather use this forum as the porn for their mental masturbation. So now, unless I'm having a bad/off day, I just let them go look for stimulation from someone else and think what they want to about my reasoning.
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    I have no prob telling them apart. I feel that it's harder to tell ESTj and ENTj apart, especially when u don't really know them well and their always get in the way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    He also attempts to point out his reasonings upon request.
    Yeah, I remember when I used to do that... you know, before I realized that the people here would attempt to drag me into 7 hour debates if I began answering their posts point by point.
    They only last so long because you refuse to explain yourself sufficiently, thereby forcing us to repeatedly ask for clarification and refute the new nonsense that you manage to come up with each time.

    So don't blame it on us.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    I have no prob telling them apart. I feel that it's harder to tell ESTj and ENTj apart, especially when u don't really know them well and their always get in the way.
    ESTj - makes more the impression of a rounded-up, "normal" person
    ENTj - makes the impression of somewhat "in the clouds", less "normal"
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    I think telling apart between entp and entj is relatively easy. Eunice is right in stating that LIE and LSE are harder to tell apart. Also, IEE and ILE would also be decipher between the two. For example, The reason is because their dominant functions are identical and may overcloud their secondary one. Comparatives are the hardest to tell apart and maybe look-alikes, but not quasi-identicals. J and P is a big difference unlike MBTI and changes around all the functons and orders resulting in very little similarity.
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    ENTps will rarely look anybody in the eye; they tend to stare off into their vision of what could be.

    ENTjs look everybody in the eye whenever they talk to them, unless they specifically desire to express emotional distance. Their eyes seem to shift very quickly in this regard; they often don't even move their heads, or only move them very slightly.

    From these characteristics, it's very easy to tell ENTjs and ENTps apart from a VI standpoint.

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    Default ENTp vs ENTj in work environment

    What's the best way to tell ENTp from ENTj in a work environment? I think I have to work with a person who is one of those but so far I can't tell which. I would guess ENTp but I'm not sure. Any quick hints to tell the difference?

    Edit: Very "driven" i.e. works very fast and can context-switch easily. Always on the move. Goes to a meeting, comes back and works very fast for 15 minutes then goes to another meeting and comes back and again switches easily to new task and works very fast. Often when wants something from people goes to them and small talks with them a bit (smiling and joking) but then quickly changes tone to official to request what they were after. Is somehow very official and careful of what to call people (never ever uses nicknames etc). Uses a very "respecting" tone with people at least in official situations. Is somewhat official in talking style and doesn't really talk on too personal level. Uses phone a lot and easily. Can organize contacts and people well but is also technologically competent. Can seen a bit distant every now and then and eyes wonder around all the time when not concentrated on a task. When runs a meeting is VERY fast (to the point that I can't follow what happens and is decided) and quite confrontational when challenged. Often before a meeting greets people with smile and welcomes them etc but when the meeting ends can "forget" about manners and just suddenly leave and confuse people a bit with this. Sort of "hot"-"cold" behavior.

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    Default Re: ENTp vs ENTj in work environment

    Bump. I need some answer here too ISTp vs INTp thread seems the to get all the attention

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    Default Re: ENTp vs ENTj in work environment

    I got more of an ENTP vibe from this description. They seem more distracted and scattered, where as the ENTJ is more focused, does things in order and likes to complete each task, and tends to be more polite. Also, I think ENTPs would be more confrontational when challenged, versus ENTJ, in my experience. The ENTJ will argue logically but seems kinda calmer to me, like they're focused on the idea but aren't really taking it personally if you disagree. And ENTPs can get more emotional if you disagree, and so can get more upset about it.

    But that's just from ENTPs and ENTJs I know irl, so it could be different for individuals. But my guess would be ENTP.


    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    What's the best way to tell ENTp from ENTj in a work environment? I think I have to work with a person who is one of those but so far I can't tell which. I would guess ENTp but I'm not sure. Any quick hints to tell the difference?

    Edit: Very "driven" i.e. works very fast and can context-switch easily. Always on the move. Goes to a meeting, comes back and works very fast for 15 minutes then goes to another meeting and comes back and again switches easily to new task and works very fast. Often when wants something from people goes to them and small talks with them a bit (smiling and joking) but then quickly changes tone to official to request what they were after. Is somehow very official and careful of what to call people (never ever uses nicknames etc). Uses a very "respecting" tone with people at least in official situations. Is somewhat official in talking style and doesn't really talk on too personal level. Uses phone a lot and easily. Can organize contacts and people well but is also technologically competent. Can seen a bit distant every now and then and eyes wonder around all the time when not concentrated on a task. When runs a meeting is VERY fast (to the point that I can't follow what happens and is decided) and quite confrontational when challenged. Often before a meeting greets people with smile and welcomes them etc but when the meeting ends can "forget" about manners and just suddenly leave and confuse people a bit with this. Sort of "hot"-"cold" behavior.
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    Yeah, my thought is ENTp too.

    Often when wants something from people goes to them and small talks with them a bit (smiling and joking) but then quickly changes tone to official to request what they were after.
    Sounds ENTp.

    Is somehow very official and careful of what to call people (never ever uses nicknames etc). Uses a very "respecting" tone with people at least in official situations. Is somewhat official in talking style and doesn't really talk on too personal level.
    Wait, small-talk that isn't personal? If you mean he doesn't get into personal feelings and stuff, then this part could be telling about his attitude toward Fi.

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    Very clearly ENTj. I BET you have placed the part "SCATTERED WIEV" on purpose because it is cited exactly the same way in an ENTj type description.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Very clearly ENTj. I BET you have placed the part "SCATTERED WIEV" on purpose because it is cited exactly the same way in an ENTj type description.
    I was initially thinking ENTp actually. What made me suspicious was the seeming capability to sustain effectiveness over a long period of time. Though I have yet to verify whether that in fact is the case.

    I thought the scattered view would be more Ne? I didn't take it from ENTj description It is like when you sit with this person eating or something their eyes seem to move around and not focus anywhere (it is hard to catch them ever looking at you for example) but when they concentrate on some task they seem very focused.

    Also I have yet to define my relations with the person but I don't think it is that good in the end. Even though so far it has been quite ok and positive I have a sense that it could deteriorate quickly if something goes wrong. Our work habbits are a bit different and I'm a bit afraid that it bugs that person somewhat but we have yet to be in a spot where it really matters so it hasn't caused any real problems. I would definately prefer a sort of slower pace and thinking things through a bit more thoroughly and discussing a bit more instead of just rushing through things.

    One thing is, the person doesn't seem to understand how it can take so long for me to do some tasks. E.g. I'm asked to do a task A. What the person would do is to start it right away and finish it quickly. Perhaps in 30 minutes after receiving the task. I usually have planned to do task B and C already so I schedule task A somewhere, let's say after task B. Then I go on with task B and only later move on to task A. In addition I generally want to do a thorough work so I try to understand what task A is really about and how it relates to the big picture before I do it so it might take me quite a while before task A is finished. Perhaps the whole day. Occasionally I just can't seem to be able to focus on that particular task at all that day and I do something else instead and schedule that task to next day or something to find the needed motivation. The person in question seems to have problems understanding this process. We approach things very differently. In the long run this might become a problem. I don't want to be told "stop everything you are doing and do this in 30 minutes" when imho there is no hurry. I like to keep a steady but slow pace and understand what I'm doing and if needed study more about the context before making any big decisions and not have these kind of "rush hours" where I don't really understand what I'm doing.

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    Why aren't you contributing in my ESTp vs ESFp thread btw
    http://the16types.info/forums/viewto...d73848ee4d282a

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    This person...might actually be ESTp. I'll have to get a bit more data.

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    Default Differences Between ENTj and ENTp

    What are some practical differences between the ENTp and the ENTj?

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    Most notable to me is the quadra difference. ENTps are goofier and more into exotic ideas (my friend is working on a pausable hourglass right now using special sand). ENTjs can have a funny side but they usually switch over to working mode at some point. (The ENTj I know best is prodding me to get started on a project that isn't due until March, for instance.) ENTps are more relaxed, I'd say. But ENTjs, more dependable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elro
    Most notable to me is the quadra difference. ENTps are goofier and more into exotic ideas (my friend is working on a pausable hourglass right now using special sand).
    That's insane. What is his industry/business?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elro
    (The ENTj I know best is prodding me to get started on a project that isn't due until March, for instance.)
    Are you ENTp?

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    They are completely obvious.

    entp:
    focus on ideas when thinking of real world matters
    scientific underlining
    strange thinking(entp quote: "It's weird watching people drive cars. They seem inhuman, and out of touch with the world around them. Almost lifeless" This is an intuitive way of looking at people in cars, it's somewhat mystical.)
    more idealogically oriented
    enjoy superficiality in a social sense and enjoy people for the sake of it, but enjoys some sense of group order and ethic
    probably have a less defined criteria of people they can like/dislike

    entj:
    focus on real world matters in a practical sense
    focus on work including methods, time spent, cost-benefit, safety
    more oriented towards facts, figures, other datas and history
    like people who are realistic and have foresight
    probably have a defined, clear criteria of their sort of people and what they expect from individuals

    Those are a few key differences. Think of two scientists- One a loose, fun, even bohemian individual. The other a formal, restrained individual who knows what the hell he is talking about and doesn't explore things openly. Regardless of ideology(their political views may reflect otherwise) an ENTp is less socially conservative and the ENTj more.
    asd

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    Quote Originally Posted by heath
    entj:
    focus on real world matters in a practical sense
    focus on work including methods, time spent, cost-benefit, safety
    more oriented towards facts, figures, other datas and history
    like people who are realistic and have foresight
    probably have a defined, clear criteria of their sort of people and what they expect from individuals
    This opens up a new question for me. What you've described sounds like ESTj. So what are the differences between ESTj and ENTj?

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    ENTjs take more risks in any field they work in as they can predict outcomes better and trust their predictions. ESTj tend to take less risks because they like sure outcomes. ENTjs make great bankers and investors, ESTjs make great doctors/surgeons and it makes sense if you consider what I said. Both are great businesspeople. ENTj also care less about professional appearances, but do understand formality. It's really a quadra thing. Expat talks often of how he likes things to work, but not in a Delta ST way. Delta ST likes to keep things working mechanically and keep their cars nice, clean, and in great working condition. This can be applied to a lot of their posessions. ENTjs are probably more concerned with their overall standing in finances. Their home, their net value, and plans for the future. ESTjs have this concern, but also a concern with the proper functioning of their goods. Delta types are also more conservative. I've seen what I think is a joke concerning ISTp on www.socionika.net and it was about ISTps and the bottom line being the price. Delta STs don't have any problem saying, "How much does it cost?" This is usually their first question if the situation could involve money.

    Another thing we don't acknowledge of the Delta quadra is independence from society. Deltas are independent people who truly do what they think is best. They are fairly oblivious to authority in this aspect.
    asd

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Quote Originally Posted by Elro
    Most notable to me is the quadra difference. ENTps are goofier and more into exotic ideas (my friend is working on a pausable hourglass right now using special sand).
    That's insane. What is his industry/business?
    Edit: Stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Quote Originally Posted by Elro
    (The ENTj I know best is prodding me to get started on a project that isn't due until March, for instance.)
    Are you ENTp?
    Maybe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by heath

    Those are a few key differences. Think of two scientists- One a loose, fun, even bohemian individual. The other a formal, restrained individual who knows what the hell he is talking about and doesn't explore things openly.
    Isn't this too extreme. Feyman's been extensively typed as ENTj but I don't see him as strictly the latter
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    See, this really is more or less the problem I started with when I first came here. I know I'm Extroverted and I know I'm Thinking. I know this is my leading function. It's whether or is my secondary function that is the problem I have had (and still have).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    See, this really is more or less the problem I started with when I first came here. I know I'm Extroverted and I know I'm Thinking. I know this is my leading function. It's whether or is my secondary function that is the problem I have had (and still have).
    You could just be a very Te EJ.

    You know you just have to figure out the types of your friends. If they're INFps, ENFjs, ISFps, ENTjs, ESFps then you're likely ESTp. If they're ISFjs, ISTps, ESTps, ESFps, INTps, ENFps then you're likely ENTj. So on for ESTj
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    You could just be a very Te EJ.

    You know you just have to figure out the types of your friends. If they're INFps, ENFjs, ISFps, ENTjs, ESFps then you're likely ESTp. If they're ISFjs, ISTps, ESTps, ESFps, INTps, ENFps then you're likely ENTj. So on for ESTj
    That's tough, because my friends are from a wide variety of types. INTj and ENFp are the types of my two closest friends. Two ESFjs, an ENTj, an ESFp, an ENxj, two ESTps, an ENTp, an ENFp, an ISFp, an ESTj are a variety of my friends from different circles.

    Also, how do you apply your method (i.e. "and so on for ESTj"), FDG? I don't understand the logic behind it.

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