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Thread: LSE/ESTj Subtypes - discussion and examples

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    Default LSE/ESTj Subtypes - discussion and examples

    Pic.s are welcomed. :wink: (I wonder do they look different from the ones with Te subtype? )

    I realized that I don't know any ESTj IRL. I encountered all types of EXTxs except ESTjs, i.e. none of my friends or acquiantances are workaholics. I have this feeling that ESTjs can only be found at the peak of any organization, be it classes, clubs, companies etc. So I don't think I have the opportunity to meet them so far.


    Description by Meged & Ovcharov:

    Te-ESTj Appearance

    The logical subtype seems impersonal, business-like, dry and correct in interaction. May look strict and unapproachable. Not inclined to make jokes, has a serious and constrained demeanor about him. Usually is not very talkative, but if his temper runs hot it's difficult to stop him. Direct and linear in behavior and conversation. Can be sharp and categorical in his judgments, due to which accumulates many problems of ethical nature. At another end of extreme, he may not say anything, but later build up grudges and hard feelings, and avoid interaction. Uncompromising and stubborn. Sometimes tries to predispose his conversation partner towards him by intimate tones in conversation. Does this if he himself is predisposed towards greater intimacy, or if he needs some kind of information or service. Mistrustful, secretive and suspicious. Dislikes talking about feelings. Prefers to engage himself in something useful, and to bring everything he undertakes to its completion. Constantly tense, finds it difficult to relax and discharge. He is predisposed towards sudden flashes of anger. Seems restrained in his movements.

    Character

    A realist, who possesses clear logical thinking: he is able to assess any situation soberly and quickly. Enjoys order in everything. Easily makes his way through instructions and laws. Respects people who are competent, and himself strives to keep informed about everything. Relays information in form of concise, clear expressions, and demands the same clear and concrete answers from other people. Very pragmatic, evaluates actions of people not only in terms of their honesty and integrity, but also of expediency.

    Has good management and organizational talents, but lacks in diplomacy and tact in relationships. Stubborn and inflexible, straightforward and artless, blunt and categorical in his statements. Because of this, he has a lot of ethical issues with other people, and few friends. Usually, he is certain of his own correctness and likes it when others listen to his advice. Finds it difficult to admit his own mistakes and go for concessions and compromises, even if this undermines his relationship with other people.

    Capable of clearly assigning responsibilities and strictly and persistently checking upon their implementation. Doesn't go easy on anyone, shows a principled and intransigent attitude in this matter. Does not act on behalf of feelings, both his own and those of others. Constantly monitors the discipline and order. Due to his wish to accomplish more, he is not sufficiently attentive to convenience in the workplace. Negatively judges the lazy and the fantasists, dislikes tricksters and cheats. He is distinguished by a strong sense of duty and an extraordinary capacity for work. Very courageous and hardy. Dislikes talking about health, considering this to be pusillanimity and weakness.

    Very punctual. Values time and does not like to waste it in vain. Tries to predict the outcome of a proposed project or course of action. Doesn't trust new ideas, prefers to not take risks in vain. Quite conservative in his tastes and habits. If his work is criticized by incompetent people, he can lose his temper and flare up. Doesn't tolerate when he is being hurried or distracted from work. Sometimes, striving for top quality in his work, and getting bogged down by details, he does not finish his job on time. Gets very upset over this, so tries to plan things in advance.

    A good financier, who can rationally handle money. Economic, calculating, and prudent. He likes working with numbers and factual concrete information. Gravitates towards such areas of activity as statistics and planning. Loves stability, reliability, and thoroughness in everything. Prefers quality and practical use of things to their aesthetics and fashion. A good manager of his own household. Quick and adept in domestic matters.

    Secretive, doesn't discuss his personal affairs with anyone. By nature sensitive and vulnerable, but prefers experience his grievances in silence. However, under certain moods he prefers to express all that has accumulated. Believes in honest relationships, but poorly understands the feelings of others, thus he is suspicious and cautious in the emotional sphere, and afraid of making mistakes. Avoids voicing compliments and praising others for good work. In his soul, he is sentimental, but tries to hide it. Finds it difficult to express his feelings. Considers excess emotions to be tedious and dislikes flattery. He believes that praises spoil people. His own attitudes he shows not in words but in actions and deeds. With outsiders he is restrained and polite, but with people who are close to him he is demanding and shows authoritativeness. A supporter of a strict upbringing.

    Description by Victor Gulenko:
    A good worker. Does not tolerate incompetence. Well erudite in his area of work or study. Very operational, sometimes over-works and wears himself out. Considers that only in this case he can also demand more from others. Can be sharp in his judgments. Usually formulates the task very clearly and directly. In the sphere of production, he demands high quality and responsibility for the product, likes to admire what has been made, emphasizes the advantage of his goods. Realizes himself well in conditions of a stable market - in logistics, in the army. Tries to unite in his own hands the whole cycle of production. In clothing he is conservative, his priorities are cleanliness, order and functionality.


    Si-ESTj Appearance

    The sensory subtype is characterized by stability and high capacity for work. Usually energetic, he cannot sit without some task or activity, and waste his time in vain. Interested in new technologies within his field of occupation or study, knows how to adapt them to his needs. Impulsive, perseverant, and pushy, knows how to passionately persuade his partner. Demanding and strict, but sometimes gives in to persuasions. Has a sense of humor. His speech is gusty and emotional. Often, one can see a predisposing although a bit strained smile on his face. Sometimes he makes attempts to shorten the personal distance by welcoming, friendly gestures - hugs, pats, light touches of his conversation partner. Holds himself uninhibitedly, relaxed and at ease. Constructive and energetic in participating in a discussion, makes jokes. Gourmand and aesthete. Likes expensive, high quality, beautiful things and dishes. Knows how to remove strain, sitting at the table with his friends. But does not allow himself to remain inactive and at rest for long. Usually has somewhat round body shape, inclined towards corpulence. His movements are gusty, abrupt, fast and impulsive. He is quite restless.

    Character

    Energetically fights for the quality of done work. Constantly improves his own level of qualification, becoming a good specialist in his field. With interest listens to a variety of rationalization proposals, not averse to test them in practice, although he's more trusting of proven methods and technology. Ensures that the necessary instructions and conditions of work are followed and maintained. Likes to do much with his hands. Inventive and resourceful in practical matters.

    Bold, decisive, operative and assertive. Possesses willpower and likes to work hard. Enthusiastically takes up implementation of his projects. Defends his interests with tenacity and passion, disregarding any authorities. A good organizer, for the people around him he can create the conditions for accurate, concerted work. Quickly orients in any situation, indispensable in extreme situations. Able to accurately make the right choice and can mobilize all others for carrying out the needed tasks.

    Excitable and addictive personality. With his optimism tries to cheer up others, to activate and mobilize them for doing something. In the interest of his work or business knows how to manifest diplomatic skill: positively predisposes others with amiability, courteousness, wit and personal warmth. For achieving a goal, shows all different shades of emotion, up to aggression, but if he sees that others are not afraid of him, becomes polite and considerate.

    Cannot stand uncertainty. Prolonged waits for some event weight him down. By nature he is impatient: dislikes delaying and postponing realization of undertaken decisions. Takes up assignments and tasks immediately, but if something goes wrong, may put it aside for a while, then come back to finish it. Emotional and gusty. Due to this, may show impulsiveness and recklessness in his actions and statements. Remembers his past mistakes and is not ashamed to talk about them. In any situation, does not lose his heart and spirit.

    Aesthete: values beauty in any of its manifestations. Creates comfort and beautifully arranges his home. Dress with a sense of taste, although a bit strictly. Handles his personal belongings with great care, and loves it when things get put in their places. Polite and somewhat prudish in communication, although sometimes his sense of tact fails him. Adheres to established rules of interpersonal conduct, and requires the same from others. Strives for harmony in relationships with others. Feels unsettled and upset when he runs into differences in views and approaches to problem solving. He is much in need of approval of his actions and personal qualities. Impressionable and vulnerable. Poorly receives criticism, even if it's delivered in soft or joking manner.

    Doesn't take his capabilities fully into account and often overloads himself with work, tiring and stressing himself out. Weighted down by routine. Seeks communication with new people and gravitates towards new impressions. Thus, periodically arranges holidays for himself, goes to visit his friends, or invites others to his home.

    Attaches importance to beautiful decoration of a holiday table: high quality dishes silverware, with candles, music, and so on. Likes to have fun and to enjoy himself. Has a sense of humor. Enjoys being the center of attention. Tries to lift everyone's mood.

    Strives towards making accurate assessments of the abilities and capabilities of other people, but this is given to him with difficulty, thus he often arrives at the wrong conclusions. Feels upset if he unjustly offends and undervalues another person. Sensitive and responsive to the misfortunes of others. Tends to take care of those who need his help. Tries to do something pleasant for his loved ones in form of surprises and gifts.

    Description by Victor Gulenko:
    The sensory subtype seems more relaxed, uninhibited, and flexible than the logical subtype. Usually sociable, emotional, and strives to make contact with other people. Hospitable, likes comfort, convenience, and coziness, leisure trips out to nature. Easily fulfills the roles of a technical director, manager, or distributor. Has a good sense for intermediate steps of development and production, trade and management.
    Last edited by silke; 04-15-2018 at 08:39 PM.

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    Not sure about the subtype but here are four ESTjs IMO:










    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Lance Armstrong:



    You wish they were at the peak of every organization. None of the ones I know is interested in that kind of stuff. Usually, you find ISTjs and ENFjs there.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    You wish they were at the peak of every organization. None of the ones I know is interested in that kind of stuff. Usually, you find ISTjs and ENFjs there.
    I agree.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Correction -- I have met several ESTj managers and directors. But probably ISTj and ENFj are indeed the most common type at the top of hierarchical corporations.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Hoover and Bush senior, yes. (Hoover uncertain, Bush Te-subtype)
    The terminator, might be possible. If so, sensory subtype.
    Bush junior. Not. Alpha. Still powerful creative . The guy's whole presidency is a carnivale and a photo-op. One can't get more alpha-having fun than this as a a president.

    To Eunice: the very top of any hierarchy isn't the best place for an ESTj. Far better suited for a post in which vision and/or good pr are not requirements but skill is. Look for surgeon, cabinet minister, general rather than CEO, godfather, president. I'd say that an ESTj is the most narrow-minded, least able to manage pr of all the extrovert types. Focus. That's the word. (Though strictly taken focus does not outrule a career like Arnold's. One could focus in one thing first and then consider that one has reached everything one can in that area and then move on to the next, allowing for hopping from bodybuilding to acting to directing to politics.)

    Other probables that spring to mind (all of which I find probable sensory subtypes):
    Real:

    Richelieu


    Mister T


    Helmut Kohl


    Martin Scorsese


    John McEnroe


    John McCain

    Fictional:

    Pete Becker in Friends


    Lennie Smalls in Of mice and men


    Buffalo Bill in Silence of the lambs


    Gregory House in House M.D.
    First eliminate every possible source of error. Thence success is inevitable.

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    I see Kohl as ESTp rather than ESTj.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    I see Kohl as ESTp rather than ESTj.
    Quite possible.
    First eliminate every possible source of error. Thence success is inevitable.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    Bush junior. Not. Alpha. Still powerful creative . The guy's whole presidency is a carnivale and a photo-op. One can't get more alpha-having fun than this as a a president.
    So how do you account for his bluntness and social awkwardness? Inarticulate, graceless...sounds like the anti-ESE manifesto to me.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilligan
    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    Bush junior. Not. Alpha. Still powerful creative . The guy's whole presidency is a carnivale and a photo-op. One can't get more alpha-having fun than this as a a president.
    So how do you account for his bluntness and social awkwardness? Inarticulate, graceless...sounds like the anti-ESE manifesto to me.
    He's not socially awkward. He got elected for president because of his social nice-guy persona. Time and again he charmed journalists and was contrasted with the gruff McCain who's far more likely to be ESTj. And Bush's still more than so don't think I count him as a pure socialite. That he's not. But no way is he delta.
    First eliminate every possible source of error. Thence success is inevitable.

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    John McEnroe doesn't seem estj either. With his public tantrums and what not, this would seem to go against the estj grain.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze8
    John McEnroe doesn't seem estj either. With his public tantrums and what not, this would seem to go against the estj grain.
    Public displays of anger are quite appropriate for ESTjs. The term "onslaught" has been connected to this type for a reason. Often enough I've seen mentioned "bulging eyes", "demonic rage" or "throbbing veins in the forehead" in connection with ESTjs on this site. I don't find any of it inappropriate.
    First eliminate every possible source of error. Thence success is inevitable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    Public displays of anger are quite appropriate for ESTjs. The term "onslaught" has been connected to this type for a reason. Often enough I've seen mentioned "bulging eyes", "demonic rage" or "throbbing veins in the forehead" in connection with ESTjs on this site. I don't find any of it inappropriate.
    Yikes. I suppose the INFjs are supposed to calm them down?

    Do you think that Si subtypes are softer or calmer?

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    Quote Originally Posted by April

    Do you think that Si subtypes are softer or calmer?
    I'd like to think so...lol

    When I was playing sports I would get what I would call the demonic rage that Smilex mentioned and a slight public display of anger would ensue. but I wouldn't put it near the same level as a McEnroe fit. Ok, maybe once... but not more than that...lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    You wish they were at the peak of every organization. None of the ones I know is interested in that kind of stuff. Usually, you find ISTjs and ENFjs there.
    Their total household income must be the highest among all duals. On a side note, I find some ENFj leaders very scary especially when they were giving speeches that were full of zest and passion but actually meant nothing. Freaks me out to see how they can emotionally manipulate so many people who followed them blindly.

    As for George W. Bush, I think he’s an SLE rather than LSE.


    Quote Originally Posted by April

    Yikes. I suppose the INFjs are supposed to calm them down?

    Do you think that Si subtypes are softer or calmer?
    I thought so too. The Te subtype descriptions made me feel that they are more stern and serious than Si subtypes. As for ESTj showing public display of anger, it sounds kind of scary. I think I will crawl under the chair if an ESTj ever showed this public display of anger infront of me and everyone else. As long as he doesn't show domestic violence, I think I still can take it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by April
    Yikes. I suppose the INFjs are supposed to calm them down?

    Do you think that Si subtypes are softer or calmer?
    Hmm... I feel that's a bit of a trick question. The type (see Gregory House) is far more inclined to misbehave in general. On the other hand the type (see Bush Sr) is according to the opinion of some (e.g. Meged) more likely to blow up in an impressive way. I'm still straddling the fence on this issue wondering if it might be possible that the blowing up is itself an expression of even from the logical subtype. *shrug*

    Some evidence may be had from the fact that accepting is generally a calming influence whereas creative seems to be very good at causing an energetic outburst. Why that's supposed to be a good thing and an expression of duality is slightly mysterious to me at the moment. Of course the question of what an INFj is supposed to do with or to an ESTj at all is something I find slightly lacking in the way of answers.
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    House?


    Here's an ESTj who's probably a Si subtype:

    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    creative seems to be very good at causing an energetic outburst.

    As in providing the ESTj an outlet to vent his frustrations, thus offering them a cathartic experience? Or causing them to be angry with INFj Ne subtypes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    You wish they were at the peak of every organization. None of the ones I know is interested in that kind of stuff. Usually, you find ISTjs and ENFjs there.
    Their total household income must be the highest among all duals.
    What's this newfound obsession with income...

    On a side note, I find some ENFj leaders very scary especially when they were giving speeches that were full of zest and passion but actually meant nothing. Freaks me out to see how they can emotionally manipulate so many people who followed them blindly.

    As for George W. Bush, I think he’s an SLE rather than LSE.
    Yeah, ENFjs sometimes are like that. If you look for the data of what they talk about, it's all messed up. I've unmasked twice ENFjs IRL that behaved like that, even though the people are still influenced. I could accept bush as SLE, but maybe ESE can be more likely, no clue actually. ESTps seem to be a bit fishier in the way they lie. His lies don't seem to be good enough though, it seems.


    I think I will crawl under the chair if an ESTj ever showed this public display of anger infront of me and everyone else. As long as he doesn't show domestic violence, I think I still can take it.
    ESTjs, as opposed to ESTps which only tend to get angrier, seem to actually calm down when their anger is not taken seriously, IME.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    Some evidence may be had from the fact that accepting is generally a calming influence whereas creative seems to be very good at causing an energetic outburst. Why that's supposed to be a good thing and an expression of duality is slightly mysterious to me at the moment. Of course the question of what an INFj is supposed to do with or to an ESTj at all is something I find slightly lacking in the way of answers.
    I don't know what should or should not happen, either, but if you yelled at or otherwise expressed anger toward me, depending on the subject, I'd likely either get angry back at you (though it wouldn't be a very demonstrative anger), ignore you, or go away and quietly cry. If it wasn't really directed at me, I might try asking questions to get you to calm down. I, of course, don't know yet if that would actually work, but it would be an initial reaction.

    EDIT: I was thinking more of a one-on-one interaction when I wrote the above. With regard to a public display, I think Eunice's idea of hiding under a piece of furniture has a lot of merit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    As for George W. Bush, I think he’s an SLE rather than LSE.
    I can't see Bush as SLE.

    There are some interesting videos here:

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/life/

    You can see Bush giving a short tour of the Oval Office. You can also see Cheney giving a tour of his office. If either of them is a SLE, it's Cheney, not Bush.

    EDIT: and I'm not sure that Cheney is an SLE either.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Bump. I am quite curious to see what people think about ESTjs here, in terms of their anger. Do people still stand by their statements? Or have your views changed?

    I find these comments interesting:





    Quote Originally Posted by April View Post
    Yikes. I suppose the INFjs are supposed to calm them down?

    Do you think that Si subtypes are softer or calmer?
    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes View Post
    Public displays of anger are quite appropriate for ESTjs. The term "onslaught" has been connected to this type for a reason. Often enough I've seen mentioned "bulging eyes", "demonic rage" or "throbbing veins in the forehead" in connection with ESTjs on this site. I don't find any of it inappropriate.
    Quote Originally Posted by eunice View Post
    [responding to april]

    I thought so too. The Te subtype descriptions made me feel that they are more stern and serious than Si subtypes. As for ESTj showing public display of anger, it sounds kind of scary. I think I will crawl under the chair if an ESTj ever showed this public display of anger infront of me and everyone else. As long as he doesn't show domestic violence, I think I still can take it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    I don't know what should or should not happen, either, but if you yelled at or otherwise expressed anger toward me, depending on the subject, I'd likely either get angry back at you (though it wouldn't be a very demonstrative anger), ignore you, or go away and quietly cry. If it wasn't really directed at me, I might try asking questions to get you to calm down. I, of course, don't know yet if that would actually work, but it would be an initial reaction.

    EDIT: I was thinking more of a one-on-one interaction when I wrote the above. With regard to a public display, I think Eunice's idea of hiding under a piece of furniture has a lot of merit.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Default Si-ESTj

    I wish I can meet more Si-ESTjs. Nearly every ESTj I have met is a Te subtype, who should be kept away from the workplace sometimes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eunice View Post
    I wish I can meet more Si-ESTjs. Nearly every ESTj I have met is a Te subtype, who should be kept away from the workplace sometimes.
    I know a few. I like them, but they can sometimes be a little crude with their humor or odd with excessive Si like too much drinking or eating, or awful sexual jokes for my taste. These guys might just be like that though, and it may not have anything to do with them being Si.

    I know that the Te subtype can be strict and demanding, but I have not met any really bad ones yet.
    EII 4w5

    so/sx (?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by eunice View Post
    I wish I can meet more Si-ESTjs. Nearly every ESTj I have met is a Te subtype, who should be kept away from the workplace sometimes.
    Good luck with that. I know a couple Si subs and they are gems both.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christy B View Post
    I know a few. I like them, but they can sometimes be a little crude with their humor or odd with excessive Si like too much drinking or eating, or awful sexual jokes for my taste. These guys might just be like that though, and it may not have anything to do with them being Si.

    I know that the Te subtype can be strict and demanding, but I have not met any really bad ones yet.

    Oh jeez, I wonder which category I fall into : /, according to your standards.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christy B View Post
    I know a few. I like them, but they can sometimes be a little crude with their humor or odd with excessive Si like too much drinking or eating, or awful sexual jokes for my taste. These guys might just be like that though, and it may not have anything to do with them being Si.

    I know that the Te subtype can be strict and demanding, but I have not met any really bad ones yet.
    Heh my buddy is like this. He rocks my socks though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    Heh my buddy is like this. He rocks my socks though.
    I'm assuming you're talking about the and not subtype
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    Yeah

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christy B View Post
    I know a few. I like them, but they can sometimes be a little crude with their humor or odd with excessive Si like too much drinking or eating, or awful sexual jokes for my taste. These guys might just be like that though, and it may not have anything to do with them being Si.

    I know that the Te subtype can be strict and demanding, but I have not met any really bad ones yet.
    Interesting. I knew one with the bad qualities of both of the subtypes you mentioned...so not sure if he was Si or Te. But as far as the "strict and demanding" part, there's this funny thing where we both know (as an ENFP) it's not going to work on me. Sometimes I'd play along, sometimes not. But it was sort of amusing more than anything. But then again, I've never had an ESTJ boss...so not sure how that would work.

    I do know another ESTJ who never makes sexual jokes, etc and has a lot of tact. Prob individual differences...

    ESTJs are usually lots of fun though.
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    Just about anyone who knows me when I'm "not at work" knows I make tons of sexual jokes. There are a number of people here that can attest to that. But at work? Not at all. It depends on the setting and what we're trying to do, and how comfortable or not I am with you.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    -- or how tired I am
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    Quote Originally Posted by anamericancer View Post
    Work is the last place I want to hear sexual jokes, lol
    ESTjs do that a lot, huh?
    Not so much in my experience, though one of them finds joy in flatulence. It runs in the family as this ESTj is from the stock of a particularly legendary gasmaster. Using clever tactics and rules of thumb to diffuse the chance of detection, unsuspecting coworkers or passerby have often been ambushed whilst the composed perpetrator slips away unnoticed. When regaling family with the tales of such grand exploits, the ESTj approaches the closest real life approximation I've seen of ROFLMAO. I don't think this is type-related, but I thought I'd share.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christy B View Post
    they can sometimes be a little crude with their humor or odd with excessive Si like too much drinking or eating, or awful sexual jokes for my taste.
    Wow. I am the complete opposite. Sometimes I wish that I have the capacity to drink more. I think sexual jokes can be tolerated as long as they are not derogatory towards women.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eunice View Post
    Wow. I am the complete opposite. Sometimes I wish that I have the capacity to drink more. I think sexual jokes can be tolerated as long as they are not derogatory towards women.


    With one guy the jokes are always derogatory. I don't mind them THAT much, especially because it lets me bring out my Fi, but it gets boring when it is ALL THE TIME and no one can say anything without it turning into a sexual or racist joke. He is so predictable it is ridiculous.

    He also has to touch everyone's ass, which actually can be funny when a girl gets pissed. He is really good looking though so usually girls don't mind. He will also hook up with anyone. I mean he's been with hundreds of girls NO JOKE.

    Anyway, I have known him for so long that I really do love him in spite of the fact that he frustrates me sometimes. Having said all that I guess he is pretty cool and I do feel some comfort from a dual interaction when I am around him.

    Edit:

    Another Si subtype is the father of a good friend I have known for most of my life. He is a total alcoholic, so much so that he doesn't work at all. His wife cooks, cleans, and works and raised the kids while he helped with very little. (This is probably just him and I know there are unhealthy people of all types.) He spent most of his time in Si indulgent states, getting massages, playing golf, going out to dinner, having parties, watching sports, taking pills and drinking.

    I know another Si subtype who is really cool, smart, nice, and funny. I don't like that he says he loves his girlfriend and then cheats on her all the time (with lame girls). He just likes hooking up with different girls so he does it.

    From what I can remember these are the only Si subtypes I have known well.
    Last edited by Christy B; 04-14-2008 at 11:39 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christy B View Post
    I know a few. I like them, but they can sometimes be a little crude with their humor or odd with excessive Si like too much drinking or eating, or awful sexual jokes for my taste. These guys might just be like that though, and it may not have anything to do with them being Si.

    I know that the Te subtype can be strict and demanding, but I have not met any really bad ones yet.
    I have not experienced the Te to be strict or demanding, I just know that others have had experiences with this. (I've heard.) Then again, maybe what someone else would consider strict and demanding I would not. I think my old boss was ESTJ-Te a female she was a wonderful boss. The best manager of time, people, problems I have ever worked with. She worked harder than anyone one else around which made me want to work harder too.
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    Lacking context, I have to say Christy that those Si subs sound inordinately flawed. No offense to you or your friends/acquaintances.
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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    Lacking context, I have to say Christy that those Si subs sound inordinately flawed. No offense to you or your friends/acquaintances.
    Yeah. I thought it might not be type related. I just know a lot of really screwed up people I guess. The guy who cheats is pretty normal, nice, etc., minus the cheating thing. To be fair, I guess it doesn't help that the two younger of those Si guys are really attractive and that girls are always falling all over them. Really. It is way too easy. . . . Gross.


    What are other more "normal" Si subtypes like? Maybe if I met one I would change my opinion of this type!!!
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    Now, not all of this will be type-related either. Rather they are generalized observations of things I've found the three individuals have in common. Naturally, some non-pertinent or typologically generic info will cycle in not to mention the possibility of an incorrect typing here or there (I'm almost positive that they are all delta ST, though it may be that my uncle is ISTp). Anyway, take it all with a grain of salt:

    The ones I've known tend to be pretty relaxing (noting that I only know them outside of a work environment, except for my uncle, who I've worked with on his farm). However, when things pop up that need doing they address it immediately and decisively, seemingly without it being a big disruption in terms of mindset. They all hold themselves and others to pretty high standards.

    I've noticed that all of them has a sort of narrowly peculiar type of humor (either in content or form) as if it's more of a learned activity rather than a natural feature of their conversation. My uncle and my mother (whom I only have knowledge of by her accounts) are strict taskmasters, but so long as you work hard and attempt to carry out what's asked, they're quite genial. Otherwise, you decline in their eyes.

    Character accounts for a lot in all of their views. If any of them see in you cause to doubt your trustworthiness or good will, reactions can range from confrontation to restricting all further contact to the necessities of the situation (strictly business, ignoring you, etc). On the other hand, if your good character is demonstrated in some way (it takes more convincing from some than others), they tend to open up and become very warm individuals.

    Once you've earned their trust, it takes something significant to lose that, such as a moral breach (a betrayal, perceived or real). In contrast, they don't seem to deal with uncertainty particularly well regarding their personal contacts. Dissembling is detested (keep it real, folks) and direct and sincere communication is the bee's knees.

    Hmm, that's all I can think of at the moment, and the more I think about it the less this sounds like a description of a particular type, much less a subtype of a particular type. Still, I have people in my life like this and I tend to get on very well with them. So there!
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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    I've noticed that all of them has a sort of narrowly peculiar type of humor (either in content or form) as if it's more of a learned activity rather than a natural feature of their conversation. My uncle and my mother (whom I only have knowledge of by her accounts) are strict taskmasters, but so long as you work hard and attempt to carry out what's asked, they're quite genial. Otherwise, you decline in their eyes.

    Character accounts for a lot in all of their views. If any of them see in you cause to doubt your trustworthiness or good will, reactions can range from confrontation to restricting all further contact to the necessities of the situation (strictly business, ignoring you, etc). On the other hand, if your good character is demonstrated in some way (it takes more convincing from some than others), they tend to open up and become very warm individuals.

    Once you've earned their trust, it takes something significant to lose that, such as a moral breach (a betrayal, perceived or real). In contrast, they don't seem to deal with uncertainty particularly well regarding their personal contacts. Dissembling is detested (keep it real, folks) and direct and sincere communication is the bee's knees.

    Hmm, that's all I can think of at the moment, and the more I think about it the less this sounds like a description of a particular type, much less a subtype of a particular type. Still, I have people in my life like this and I tend to get on very well with them. So there!
    Bee's knees? I've never heard that one before. What does it really mean?


    And yeah, everything you say there is basically how I feel. Particularly your take on trust, and how I warm up to people that seem trustworthy, and stay away from those that are not.
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