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Thread: Holy Si Batman

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    Default Holy Si Batman

    I seriously need to stop even opening these these threads. The way the women respond to them pisses me off.
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    lol. thats a hell of a topic.

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    My post was most likely right.

    Seriously, it's like they're trying to make eachother feel bad or weak or something. Quite irritating.
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    In all honesty Joy the opposite seems to be the case. everybody elses advice seemed to be honest and helpfull to the girl while yours seemed sort of fake positive thinking kinda crap... just my opinion. I think she was looking for honesty, bonding, and emotional support. Not surface level self-help book advice.

    (sorry for being blunt... there was no other way to state my opinion )

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    from the male perspective I think there are two options here

    1. like the other girls said, he was just scared and empathising in a way... doesn't want to see his significant other bruised and post-op like that. it pains him

    2. if he's not that deep of a guy he just doesn't want to be scared by the image of a pair of mangled titties and wants to wait until they look good again to see them

    I suppose your opinion is possible but I think it would be a small minority who saw it that way

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    this is such a dumb issue...

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    no it's not... this is real life that these women are dealing with. There's nothing dumb about it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    no it's not... this is real life that these women are dealing with.
    ...

    ...



    ...

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    Hello... my name is Niffweed... I like math!

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    seriously, this is not a big deal. who really cares if some idiot won't look at his wife's breasts? she should not and we certainly should not. this is really a total non-issue.

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    Bionicgoat, for the first time I truly believe that you value Si.

    I'm with totally niffweed here... what we're seeing in this thread is Se vs. Si as well. And the whole "I don't want to see them unless I can touch them thing" sounds like sexual frustration to me. Maybe it was an excuse to not have to see them messed up. I don't know, the whole thing is highly illogical. Ugh those women need husbands who aren't pansies.
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    I'd be bummed too, but really, the healing body with its signs evoking images of a loved one being sliced up and stitched, which is a pretty stomach turning kind of thing, I'm not surprised there are some very non-erotic responses going on. Like posters said, once healed, normality restored, no more blood and guts, no problem.
    female ISTj, sensory subtype

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    .

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    Seems like the woman has a lot invested in her new set of breasts, like they're going to do a lot for her or something....and the husband isn't opposing it or anything, but he probably liked them just fine the way they were. What seems sad is how much she has invested in it. I trust she had breast augmentation, not removal of breast cancer or some such?

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    In all honesty Joy the opposite seems to be the case. everybody elses advice seemed to be honest and helpfull to the girl while yours seemed sort of fake positive thinking kinda crap... just my opinion. I think she was looking for honesty, bonding, and emotional support. Not surface level self-help book advice.

    (sorry for being blunt... there was no other way to state my opinion )

    BUT NOOO!!!



    Joy's is very close to what I would have written. It would have been longer, more rambling, and probably quirky but its pretty much what popped in my head to respond to the original poster with.


    SO, what I made italic is what comes across as fake to me, while the bolded text is what makes me feel better. Emotional "blah blah everything is okay sweetie your DH loves you blah blah whatever" seems fake to me and I can only take about .......5 minutes of it and ONLY from someone I KNOW thinks they are doing good for me so I just let them think that. Normally in that case, I think about how they are trying and that alone makes me feel a little better.
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    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

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    I don't see how any of that advice is antagonistic in any way. You're all being dumb.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze8
    Seems like the woman has a lot invested in her new set of breasts, like they're going to do a lot for her or something....and the husband isn't opposing it or anything, but he probably liked them just fine the way they were. What seems sad is how much she has invested in it. I trust she had breast augmentation, not removal of breast cancer or some such?

    I think it is a site for women who need breast reduction because of them causeing back pain/problems? Thats what I thought.
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    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilligan
    I don't see how any of that advice is antagonistic in any way. You're all being dumb.

    It's not antogonistic....the point I've come to see is that Bionic likes one sort of comfort while Joy and I prefer another, but we both see each others preference as being fake.
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    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    Ugh. Why would they want to show their husbands that? It seems a little strange, "Look, I look like frankenstein right now, wanna see?" "Um, no." "wahhhh, you don't love me!" What does she expect? "Oh, yes cool, I wanna see how badly mangled you are right now because stictches and gore really turn me on!"
    Uhm...I find it perfectly normal that she wants to show him and I wouldn't wait 14 days to ask. She shouldn't have to have to hide things like that from her partner for the reason "ohhh, he will think it's ugly and disgusting and it really isn't his problem anyway." Her well-being is her partner's problem and I, personally, would want him to know what exactly I am going through and more importantly, I would want him to want to know.

    I do understand husbands who are hesitant because it is hard for them to see any part of her body stitched up and such, but then they can explain that to her, can't they? My ISTp ex HATED seeing blood, but when I was bleeding (and not just a little cut), he rose up to the occasion because he cared enough to try and realized he can do it. If he had not been able to deal with it, it would have been fine because at least he tried.

    I also think this guy's reaction is an excuse because he is scared to look at them, but he could at least TRY to be in it with her. When he realizes he can't stand looking at them, then he can explain why. But what kind of reaction is "I will see them when I can touch them"? Reads like "No babe, I will deal with them when I can play with them again. As long as they are like this, I don't want anything to do with them." It's not about him, it's about her. Bleh.
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
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    On a side note: I just noticed that when I look at my exes, NTs really didn't like dealing with things like that (illness, surgery, etc.) while STs just rolled with it and were extremely supportive in this non-fussy way. Just an observation based on a limited number of people.
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    Stop speculating. Y'all don't know why the guy said that, and Kim, she didn't even ask him for an explanation; she just went with her initial emotional reaction. Guys say stupid insensitive crap without thinking about it, and girls could make it a lot easier by just coming out with the problem, instead of asking a third party for advice. The problem is communication.

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    edited to reduce bitchiness caused by misunderstanding

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim
    Uhm...I find it perfectly normal that she wants to show him and I wouldn't wait 14 days to ask. She shouldn't have to have to hide things like that from her partner for the reason "ohhh, he will think it's ugly and disgusting and it really isn't his problem anyway." Her well-being is her partner's problem and I, personally, would want him to know what exactly I am going through and more importantly, I would want him to want to know.
    Here I respond directly to Diana's reply and say that it's not unnatural for a woman to share this with her partner.

    I do understand husbands who are hesitant because it is hard for them to see any part of her body stitched up and such, but then they can explain that to her, can't they? My ISTp ex HATED seeing blood, but when I was bleeding (and not just a little cut), he rose up to the occasion because he cared enough to try and realized he can do it. If he had not been able to deal with it, it would have been fine because at least he tried.
    Here I advocate, as you do, communication. I also advocate effort.

    I also think this guy's reaction is an excuse because he is scared to look at them, but he could at least TRY to be in it with her.When he realizes he can't stand looking at them, then he can explain why.. But what kind of reaction is "I will see them when I can touch them"? Reads like "No babe, I will deal with them when I can play with them again. As long as they are like this, I don't want anything to do with them." It's not about him, it's about her. Bleh.
    In the first sentence I do speculate, but I actually speak in his favor. I do say effort would be nice, yes. Then I, again, say that communication is important. And in the end, I say "reads like," which indicates that it's how it can be understood by her (NOT how he could have meant it). I am therefore providing an example of where communication can go wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Stop speculating. Y'all don't know why the guy said that, and Kim, she didn't even ask him for an explanation; she just went with her initial emotional reaction. Guys say stupid insensitive crap without thinking about it, and girls could make it a lot easier by just coming out with the problem, instead of asking a third party for advice. The problem is communication.
    is a beautiful thing...
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

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    Sigh. I really didn't want to be sucked into this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim
    interpret what I say as an emotional reaction when really it is not.
    I was referring to the original poster, who was crying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim
    Here I advocate, as you do, communication. I also advocate effort.
    OK. Then we agree on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim
    I also think this guy's reaction is an excuse because he is scared to look at them, but he could at least TRY to be in it with her.When he realizes he can't stand looking at them, then he can explain why.. But what kind of reaction is "I will see them when I can touch them"? Reads like "No babe, I will deal with them when I can play with them again. As long as they are like this, I don't want anything to do with them." It's not about him, it's about her. Bleh.
    In the first sentence I do speculate, but I actually speak in his favor.
    You also say he was "scared". I think this is complete BS, meant to comfort the women in the way that Joy originally criticized. He said something obnoxious, and--being a male--IF I was to assume a reason for his actions, it would be obliviousness (which is of course not excusable either). "Do not attribute to maliciousness what can be adequately explained by incompetence." A second, equally plausible alternative, is that he's just a dick, which I think was the point you were trying to make. I try to make it a habit of not assuming nasty things like that about people if at all possible.

    In either case, neither of them were communicating their reasons, and people here (not just you, Kim) are forming awfully strong opinions about the situation on limited information.

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Guys say stupid insensitive crap without thinking about it, and girls could make it a lot easier by just coming out with the problem, instead of asking a third party for advice.
    I didn't mean to absolve guys of any responsibility with this statement.

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    Ah, ok. I thought you were talking about what I said, but you talked to me. I misunderstood that, sorry (oh, the irony...).

    In response to that real quick: I can imagine that she was really hurt by his reaction and there was no place for a rational "please explain" on her part.

    And to be honest, I can be guilty of that in rl relationships in that I think that the person just HAS to reallize the effect his/her words have on me without me having to explain. When they don't realize I can be all sad and go into hermit mode.

    In fact, it's part of the reason that got me into Socionics: "how can this INTj not GET this???"It makes a lot more sense now. But to be honest, I would have either reacted like her, in this situation, or thrown a temper tantrum. Different types, different reactions, I suppose...And I think the reactions in this thread reflect that. Duh. :wink:
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    Phew. I'm glad we got that cleared up.

    This is among my favorite quotes about INTjs (it's actually about INTJs, but I think it is still right on the mark):

    Quote Originally Posted by typelogic.com
    Perhaps the most fundamental problem, however, is that INTJs really want people to make sense. :-) This sometimes results in a peculiar naivete', paralleling that of many Fs -- only instead of expecting inexhaustible affection and empathy from a romantic relationship, the INTJ will expect inexhaustible reasonability and directness.
    That kind of explains my opinion. :wink:

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    I agree with Kim.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze8
    Seems like the woman has a lot invested in her new set of breasts, like they're going to do a lot for her or something....and the husband isn't opposing it or anything, but he probably liked them just fine the way they were. What seems sad is how much she has invested in it. I trust she had breast augmentation, not removal of breast cancer or some such?
    She had a breast reduction most likely because of severe back and neck pain and possibly other health problems. Women who have that done don't do it for costhmetic reasons but of course hope that their mates will like their new tits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    Ugh. Why would they want to show their husbands that? It seems a little strange, "Look, I look like frankenstein right now, wanna see?" "Um, no." "wahhhh, you don't love me!" What does she expect? "Oh, yes cool, I wanna see how badly mangled you are right now because stictches and gore really turn me on!"
    Haha Peter says zombies are hot.... anyways, I don't understand why he hadn't seem them already at 2 weeks.... he should have been going to appointments with her and helping her do other things that would require he see them. Wtf. The only way around that is if the guy is a wuss and has a weak stomach, in which case she should've know that she'd have to be strong and not ask him stuff like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clover
    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    In all honesty Joy the opposite seems to be the case. everybody elses advice seemed to be honest and helpfull to the girl while yours seemed sort of fake positive thinking kinda crap... just my opinion. I think she was looking for honesty, bonding, and emotional support. Not surface level self-help book advice.

    (sorry for being blunt... there was no other way to state my opinion )

    BUT NOOO!!!



    Joy's is very close to what I would have written. It would have been longer, more rambling, and probably quirky but its pretty much what popped in my head to respond to the original poster with.


    SO, what I made italic is what comes across as fake to me, while the bolded text is what makes me feel better. Emotional "blah blah everything is okay sweetie your DH loves you blah blah whatever" seems fake to me and I can only take about .......5 minutes of it and ONLY from someone I KNOW thinks they are doing good for me so I just let them think that. Normally in that case, I think about how they are trying and that alone makes me feel a little better.
    Kelly values Se > Si.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilligan
    I don't see how any of that advice is antagonistic in any way. You're all being dumb.
    I understand that it wouldn't be considered antagonistic to a lot of people, but it annoys the shit out of me. I can't handle that kind of advice. "Here, put all of your faith in and seek comfort from something you have absolutely no control over." Wtf?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy

    Kelly values Se > Si.
    Mmh. There's a nice Renin dichotomy:

    Constructivist (FJ TP):
    1.Tend to minimize the emotional elements of interaction, preferring to focus on the 'business' elements.
    2.Have emotional 'anchors' (eg, books, films, places) which they use to support their internal emotional state.
    3.Can become 'emotionally hooked', and can have a strong reaction to a particular part or section regardless of their feelings towards the entirety.
    4.Have greater difficulty disassociating from others' emotions and experiences than from requests for action or consideration.
    5.“I prefer when people offer concrete solutions instead of comfort or sympathy.”
    Emotivist (FP TJ):
    1.Tend to concentrate foremost on the emotional background of interaction, with 'business' a secondary concern.
    2.Prefer the new and novel over the old and known.
    3.Information perceived as unprofessional or low-quality can leave them indifferent.
    4.Have greater difficulty disassociating from requests for action or consideration than from others' emotions and experiences.
    5.“If a conversation is emotionally negative, I consider it wasted.”

    So, I'd say unrelated to Si, or Se.
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    There is a degree of that in it, too, but Se vs. Si is the more relevant issue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    There is a degree of that in it, too, but Se vs. Si is the more relevant issue.
    I wonder, why, since I offered an explanation - indeed not liking my offer would make you an emotivist though, which fits your type. Oh well, I'm speaking to myself
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    Now you're just talking out of your ass.

    Who said I didn't "like" your offering? I said there is a degree of that in it, too. Kelly and I both certainly fit the emotive description better than constructive, particularly the part you bolded.

    However, you'll notice that throughout this thread there has been a theme of Si > Se types taking the "oh ouch" perspective about all of this and Se > Si types are more concerned with other aspects of the situation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    The whole thing is completely stupid. Why didn't she just talk to him about it, instead of going in to tears and then posting about it? Ridiculous. I'm frankly siding with him because she's an idiot.
    Perhaps she was shocked about his reaction, was disappointed and hurt, didn't feel comfortable talking to him about him, and needed to share with others? That makes her an idiot?

    I can see myself reacting the same way, actually.
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    If it were me with the scars, I wouldn't want to show them to him until it was all healed. Unless I needed help doing something to them, then I'd expect him to help me with it, regardless of his comfort zone with it.

    When I read the link, I was reminded of how many men, after seeing a baby come out of an erotic zone, all the blood and bits, etc... lose their taste for going down on the woman, and stop watching the action down there. (It doesn't happen to all men, but it does happen often.)

    The same thing MAY apply here. It's possible, that if he were to see the scars and the blood and the bruises, etc... that those breasts would lose their erotic appeal.

    As some people pointed out, we don't know the whole story. We don't know exactly what she said, how she said it, what context it was in, nor what the guy was doing, thinking, motivated by, what he said, how he said it, what subsequent argument came about, what arguments they'd had prior to this incident, etc.

    If I were to have felt compelled to respond to the woman, it would have been to try to point out the positive side of it...that by him not seeing them while they're mangled, there's less risk of loss of erotic appeal.



    Some people try to sneak a peek at their gift before it's actually given to them.
    Some people like to shake the wrapped gift up...risking damaging the gift.
    Others enjoy the anticipation of the final unwrapping.
    Why can't the same thing apply to breast reductions?


    Oh, and I believe that communicating with one's partner is far more enlightening and emotionally fulfilling than bitching about the partner to strangers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim
    She shouldn't have to have to hide things like that from her partner for the reason "ohhh, he will think it's ugly and disgusting and it really isn't his problem anyway." Her well-being is her partner's problem and I, personally, would want him to know what exactly I am going through and more importantly, I would want him to want to know.
    Agreed, she shouldn't have to hide things like that.
    On the other hand, she shouldn't try to force something like that onto him. He has rights and feelings too.

    As for concern for partner's well-being, I would think that that goes both ways.
    As does respect.

    I can understand wanting a partner who would want to know, and want to look, and want to share the wonders of the healing body, etc. Hopefully though, if it's that important, then it'd be the kind of thing you'd look for PRIOR to getting married, etc.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    I can understand wanting a partner who would want to know, and want to look, and want to share the wonders of the healing body, etc. Hopefully though, if it's that important, then it'd be the kind of thing you'd look for PRIOR to getting married, etc.
    I agree

    I think it's not so much the refusal, but the way it's communicated that irks me. I understand that some people just can't deal with things like that (my sister is one example and I would never expose her to such a thing). But healing processes are scary and emotional and I think it is a bit harsh to demand that she communicates what her problem is while not noting that his way of communicating isn't all that effective either.

    She can't just refuse to look at her own "mangled body," so she should be allowed to be a little emotional when his reaction disappoints her. That does not make her an idiot.
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

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    aw cmon... it's not so bad

    *removed due to request via report of the post*
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    I, for one, did not want to see this! couldn't you have just PM'd it to those who are interrested?

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    : /
    THE BEARD HEARD HIS MOVEMENT AND MADE AN ATTACK RUN BUT DID NOT ACTUALLY ATTACK HIM

    viva palestina

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