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Thread: LII-ESE Duality Relations: discussion, examples (INTj and ESFj)

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    Default LII-ESE Duality Relations: discussion, examples (INTj and ESFj)

    I am brand new to this board. I have known for a long time that I am an INTj, and I have always been attracted to ENFp women most. Relationships that derive from that attraction, however, in the long run can turn problematic.

    I found out through socionics.com that the Duality relation is the best for long-term relationship satisfaction (other things being equal). To my utter surprise, that matches an INTj with an ESFj. I had pretty much ruled out Sj women, because Ss don't track with my intuitive approach to the world. The F is a definite must, and the j is helpful. The E I can live with. But the S?

    I was beginning to think that I might be better suited to INFj women, or maybe even INFp as an second-level alternate, but this match-up with ESFjs has blind-sided me. Do any of you other INTjs have experience with this Duality relation? Would you recommend it? What are its advantages over relationships with NF types? Lastly, where are ESFj women most likely to be found? Obviously, according to the poll in the general forum, they don't hang around here.

    Thanks in advance.
    INTj_Tim

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    Hi Tim,

    I do know a couple where one is an INTJ and the other ESFJ. They have had a wonderful relationship for years and it seems as if they are truly made for each other. They really seem to complement each other very well. For example, the ESFJ brings the INTJ into the social world and makes him feel socially accepted and well-liked. On the other hand, the INTJ shows the ESFJ that he also has to care about himself, not just others and that it is good to take a break from the social world every once in a while. There are many other things, but these two are so great for each other and respect each other very much - with their strengths and weaknesses.

    But hey, don't you rule out those ENFPs!
    :wink:

    Kim

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    I'm an INTJ and I was with an ESFJ woman for two years.

    First, in my opinion, your kind of concern can be taken too far since in the end individuals are individuals, not just types.

    Having said that, here's my take on your questions --

    We got along very well, although I would agree with you that her not being sensing rather than intuitive led to communication problems -- precisely one of her chief complaints. So I'm not sure about that, either. She had little interest in discussing ideas or trends, preferring to focus on the present and daily events.

    Advantage with regard with NF types: honestly, in my experience with INFJ women, what bothers me is their tendency to not to take what I say at face value and to assume that their intuition allows them to guess what I "really" think and feel -- usually in the sense that they assume I if I have such view, or make such decision, it's based not on reasoning but on feeling -- since that is the way *they* go about it.

    My ESFJ girlfriend was more likely to take at face value what I said, and if I had made more of an effort to make her feel needed, I think it would have worked out differently -since it wasn't that

    The problem with the INFP I knew was that her need for acceptance and feel desired made her lead me (and others) on. If an INFP girl's really into you, I guess it's ok, but don't be surprised if she acts flirty with other guys.

    I have no experience with ENFP women. My best friend is an ENFP guy. We get along well precisely because we both like to discuss ideas and see through bullshit. However, his endless procrastination when having to make unpleasant decisions could be a real problem, for me, in a long-term relationship with a woman, if she was also like that.

    Personally I wouldn't immediately dismiss - or pursue - anyone based on her type (which may be unclear anyway).

    I hope this helps.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ENFP_wants_INTJ
    But hey, don't you rule out those ENFPs!
    :wink:
    It's not about ruling them out but about reeling them in.
    INTj_Tim

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous
    We got along very well, although I would agree with you that her not being sensing rather than intuitive led to communication problems
    Communication at the intuitive level is such an important part of who I am. It's too bad that my "perfect match" isn't that perfect for me, after all.

    I have no experience with ENFP women.
    You have definitely been deprived, if you are an INTJ. Before you die, do swing by the INFP department. A good one will give you the thrill of your life, but as with the best amusement park rides they can turn into terror before you know it.

    Personally I wouldn't immediately dismiss - or pursue - anyone based on her type (which may be unclear anyway).
    No doubt that's the best advice I'll get here, but it is very hard for an INTJ to follow.
    INTj_Tim

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    Tim, maybe you should check this out,

    http://the16types.info/groups.php?groupid=20

    I tend to think romantic relationships are best within one of these groups, not neccecaraily duality. This would help explain why an INTJ and INFJ or ENFP would actually be good relationships to have.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    I have known for a long time that I am an INTj, and I have always been attracted to ENFp women most.
    Yeah, what's up with the INTj-ENFp ring of attraction? It's not like I'm attracted to ESTjs and they to me.

    Oh wait, yes I am and yes they are. Damn...
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cone
    I have known for a long time that I am an INTj, and I have always been attracted to ENFp women most.
    Yeah, what's up with the INTj-ENFp ring of attraction? It's not like I'm attracted to ESTjs and they to me.

    Oh wait, yes I am and yes they are. Damn...
    Apparently you missed the "ENFP-INTJ-attraction because of the same erotic attitude group" link above.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Apparently you missed the "ENFP-INTJ-attraction because of the same erotic attitude group" link above.
    I thought the whole point of the erotic attitude groups is that it doesn't work within the group.
    TiNe, LII, INTj, etc.
    "I feel like I should be making a sarcastic comment right now, but you're just so cute!" - Shego, Kim Possible

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    Default ESFj romance with INTj (ESE-LII duality)

    I met an INTJ last year in school. I myself am an ESFJ. He was very cold to me at first, but eventually, I got him talking. We had a love/hate relationship, because we were continually "arguing" though in a very friendly manner. Most people at the end of last year asked us if we had feelings for each other. We both denied it, but I realized that I did have feelings for him. He had feelings for me earlier in the year, but in his exact words... " the severity of it had worn off and now it has passed into the friendship stage.." he didn't want to start a relationship because he didn't want to ruin our friendship. However, this year, he is still meaner to me than to anyone else, (which everyone says is his way of flirting with me, though I don't see it, because he said we were only friends.) I finally wrote him a letter, telling him that I did have feelings for him, and it was ok if he didn't feel the same way, as long as we could be friends and he wouldn't be so mean to me. I thought he would completely ignore me, but he surprised me and approached me about it. He found my note interesting, and said not to take it personal, but that he was not good with relationships. Then he did something completely uncharacteristic and put his arm around my shoulders, and said "we are friends...and I will make an effort to be nicer to you." He has done so. It's just... I still have strong feelings for him, and I don't know if that was a complete " I don't like you" or if it was more an " I'm really not good with relationships." but he still has feelings for me... If any INTJ or anybody else like to comment or give me advice it would be much appreciated!!! I need to know what to do next.

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    Do any of you INTjs think it's possible that that was his was of saying that he didn't know how to initiate anything more?
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    Joy, I think your guess is accurate.
    INTj Mathematician -- "What, me worry?"

    "As intelligence increases, happiness goes down. See, I made a graph. I make a lot of graphs." -- Lisa Simpson

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    INTjs just don't seem to relate to others well. They seem to not have much interest in most people, and when there is a person they're very interested in, taking those first several dozen steps in the relationship most likely won't come naturally.

    If this INTj guy was willing to tell her his feelings in the past (and she must have been something to catch his attention!) when he most likely knew that she wasn't interested in him like that, it doesn't necessarily mean that it would be just as easy for him this time because he knows that something will come of it and for him perhaps starting a relationship is like a diving board to a person who doesn't know how to swim...

    Has this guy ever been in a relationship before?
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    BTW, the fact that he touched her... I do not touch people who I am rejecting, even if it is a friend.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    I wrote this, once.. and it wasn't so long ago:

    I am in love. Her name is M. A bitch. But that's what I say. Her memory lingers. I miss her to this day. She is right there, ready to listen. But its been too long, my words can never again be heard. I suppose I should have spoken, so often I dodged the truth. I suppose I had to have the character , long gone, its existence set to mute. I should've shown the courage, happiness against fear. A promise. I should have known. Where is my life now but in a sinking fate? What of my destiny, will it relax and let me set my own sail? Rigid, the walls, they tighten. Closing in, my bite residing. I'm losing time, on the second day.. Over. This is frightened, very scared. What the fuck do I do? Where are my fucking words?... They come and flow frequently, but when called to battle they run back, scared. I am so betrayed. Stream of conscience is screaming, out of my mind and on to the page. There is a forgotten memory, once a dream, that has my name.

    *eh hum*

    Call me weird, but that about says it all.. IMO.
    thing.

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    i am an intj guy, and was in a relationship with an esfj girl for nearly 9 months. we broke up because of other circumstances, though not necessarily because we were having major difficulties getting along. what you described sounds almost nothing like my relationship, or even other relationships with different esfj's throughout high school.

    my guess is that

    a) one of you is not the personality type you think you are
    b) he is not physically attracted to you
    c) he thinks, for one reason or another, there is no way a relationship between you could work. yes, intj's are less than stellar in relationships, but we are more than willing to work at them, especially if we like the person we are with. on the flipside, we are intelligent enough to know when things just aren't going to work out, in which case you are fucked and would do well to just move on.

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    Joy,
    Yes he was in a relationship before. He hasn't had one for a year and a half though, and after he told me that, that's when he said he wasn't good with relationships. He said he doesn't trust people or let them get close to him. I suppose I just don't want to let it go, because I feel drawn to him, like there is some connection I can't explain. Sometimes, weird things happen: Like we'll just be fooling around, and he'll grab my hand, and keep it in his grasp for 5 seconds, and then let it go.... Like the whole moment stands still type of thing... Forgive me, I'm a hopeless romantic. :wink: I just thought I felt something there, which is the reason I have been so persistant.

    Thank you everyone for your replies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous
    I suppose I just don't want to let it go, because I feel drawn to him, like there is some connection I can't explain.
    That's exactly how I felt about my INTj! He was in the group of people who I had been hanging around with (my brother and sister's friends), and I found that I was hanging out with them even more than I would have usually and realized it was because I enjoyed being around him. He didn't think too highly of me at the time. It was the worst and most aimless time in my life for me and I was drinking WAY too much. I was testing my powers at the time to, and finding that most men would do anything if I only told them to. I never tried that kind of stuff with him... I knew it wouldn't fly.

    Here was this guy who had absolutely no interest in my whatsoever. I could hang out with him all day every day and even sleep next to him and he would never even be attracted to me. He was safe.

    I somehow all of a sudden "just knew" that we shuld be together. My best friend at the time thought I was crazy. I told Josh how I felt and asked him if he wanted to be with me. (This, BTW, was a BIG question. My sister and I have this pact where if one of us dates a guy he is off limits to the other one permanently! He had been in love with my sister for a couple of years at that point, and he was quite aware that deciding to date me meant that he could never be with my sister.) He said he didn't know.

    Now, I wasn't a very patient person when it came to dating. Most of the time if I didn't get the response I was looking for I would decide the guy was more effort than he was worth and move on to the next guy. For some reason I knew that this guy was worth practicing the lost art of patience. It took a couple of weeks and a near death experiance, but he decided to be with me.

    And the point of all this is... I don't remember... mymycutiepie, it definitely sounds like he at least wants you to like him. I don't think and INTj would put forth the effort to hold the interest of someone that he isn't at all interested in.

    How serious was this other relationship? How old was he (if you don't mind sharing that information)? Who initiated the relationship? My INTj had had a few girlfriends before me, but they were all sorta crazy... the type that just decides, "You're with me now" and he just went along with it until they started demanding too much or lost interest. Sorta like they wanted a pet.

    If I were you, based on the information at hand, I would say to make sure he knows that you totally accept him for who he is, faults and all, that you don't mind taking things slowly, that you enjoy the time you spend with him, that you'll still be interested in being friends with him even if he doesn't "like" you, and that he is the most interesting person you know. Make sure he knows that you find his differences from most people to be refreshing, and that you feel a certain connection with him.

    If those feelings are there (and it sounds like they are), then he's probably worried that you'll lose interest once you see what he's like (or not like) in a relationship. Remember, the first several dozen steps in a relationship don't come naturally to INTjs...

    Also, I found it very strange that my INTj was so affectionate once we were together. He says so much more by putting his hand on mine than he ever has with his words. If it seems like body language and touch are an easier form of communication for him, perhaps slowly easing your way into affectionate communication through touch and body language would be most comfortable for him? Watch for cues, either saying "come closer" or "whoa! too close!".
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by alex
    There are times for both words and affection. I try with words, however, when it comes to saying "I like(+) you" for the first time, the best solution I've come up with is simply grabbing their hand.
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    OR "he's just not that into you"?

    Or not.

    intj intscmay.

    what's with youse guys? how come you can't just say what's on your mind? estj has to be one of the easiest types of people to connect with . . .
    Entp
    ILE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze
    OR "he's just not that into you"?

    Or not.

    intj intscmay.

    what's with youse guys? how come you can't just say what's on your mind? estj has to be one of the easiest types of people to connect with . . .
    Well, that's the eternal question...I haven't a clue, though I've spent plenty of time arguing with myself about it. Seems like the rational thing to do... be frank and forget all the stupid games, but I guess I'm never sure enough of my own feelings* to put myself out there.

    *Okay, at the risk of sounding completely cold, also, I'm never sure enough of the other person's "worthiness". Why I can't save such decisions for later on, I'm not sure. But sometimes I fall for someone I don't entirely "approve" of, and then I'm stuck with that civil war inside my head also.

    (BTW, Blaze, did you mean ESFj instead of ESTj?)
    TiNe, LII, INTj, etc.
    "I feel like I should be making a sarcastic comment right now, but you're just so cute!" - Shego, Kim Possible

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    Joy,

    We are both 17 (young I know, but whatever). I don't know much about his last girlfriend because he was only in my school this year and last year. I figured that he must care for me a little, otherwise he could have just completely ignored me and not even bothered to discuss it with me. It was extremely strange, considering my INTj always has something to say, and when it came to trying to discuss his feelings, he had nothing to say. It was cute. lol I'm just afraid to be too forward with him, because I'm more the type a person to let the other make the first move. I don't want to completely freak him out... But, I guess the next time I take his arm to walk with him, I'll grab his hand instead and see what happens.
    Mymycutiepie- ESFJ

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    My advice is to try and understand his Place of Least Resistance (Shyness): Extroverted Sensing (Se). I would describe it simply as the INTj's shy spot for hedonism as opposed to being ascetic i.e. a shyness towards sensual pleasures.
    Remember to keep things simple and not any simpler like Einstein once said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim
    Quote Originally Posted by MySaviour
    I wrote this, once.. and it wasn't so long ago:

    I am in love. Her name is M. A bitch. But that's what I say. Her memory lingers. I miss her to this day. She is right there, ready to listen. But its been too long, my words can never again be heard. I suppose I should have spoken, so often I dodged the truth. I suppose I had to have the character , long gone, its existence set to mute. I should've shown the courage, happiness against fear. A promise. I should have known. Where is my life now but in a sinking fate? What of my destiny, will it relax and let me set my own sail? Rigid, the walls, they tighten. Closing in, my bite residing. I'm losing time, on the second day.. Over. This is frightened, very scared. What the fuck do I do? Where are my fucking words?... They come and flow frequently, but when called to battle they run back, scared. I am so betrayed. Stream of conscience is screaming, out of my mind and on to the page. There is a forgotten memory, once a dream, that has my name.

    *eh hum*

    Call me weird, but that about says it all.. IMO.
    Could it have been different had she been aware? I'm just asking because I could very well be her to someone I love...
    Huh? She used to be the one that would chase me around.. but she screwed around so much, I could never figure out if she was serious, or using my responses solely for the amusement of herself and her friends. So I didn't put myself out there, for fear of making the musings increase exponentially. I wouldn't have been a big fan of being the butt of many jokes, especially given my character (which is not a front, contrary to popular opinion).
    thing.

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    mymycutiepie, read some of the other threads about INTjs... the fact that he's been willing to go as far as he has in this friendship means you must be very important to him. That's just my opinion... my INTj fell for the first girl who wanted to get to know him and not just laugh at his party tricks. He also had somewhat of a sensitve spot for her because he could see how vunerable she was (that's what ended up getting me and him together... he saw me have a nervous breakdown of sorts!).

    And also... are you sure he's an INTj? I think your plan is a good one regardless, as long as you can pull it off without tension...
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    He has never taken the test, but there is no way he is anything other than an INTJ. I knew it from the first time I met him.
    Mymycutiepie- ESFJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    MySaviour, what image do you believe you have? You describe yourself as being somewhat notorious, and you are protective of your reputation.
    "Cold, emotionally detached smart guy."
    thing.

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    I believe the INTJ deep-down wants the relationship, but he is too afraid of being burned so he has numbed his feelings and decided it's better to be a mere friend. The fact that he keeps saying that he's bad in relationships points to a fear of intimacy. He wants it, but he's afraid of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
    you guys do realize that sometimes intjs just don't care right? deep down inside there is not necessarily fluffy lovey-dovey goo
    LOL, that is sooooo true. Still... I just have this feeling that if this guy wasn't at all interested, then he wouldn't humor her like like she's describing. I do not think an INTj would see a point in that.
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    Precisely, I don't know if it's maturity or prolonged celibacy but either way, yes, i wan't a relationship but i don't see myself getting all gushy in lurve as it were. I think i maintain the logical outlook in lurve that i'm a guy, your a girl, er.. we have roles to fulfill.... er... now what.... life does not compute.... 0001... 101010....101010...System CRASH............................
    Remember to keep things simple and not any simpler like Einstein once said.

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    hehehe good point! INTjs do not like things that they cannot make total sense of. And when do relatiohsips ever totally make sense?
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    Quote Originally Posted by XcaliburGirl
    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze
    OR "he's just not that into you"?

    Or not.

    intj intscmay.

    what's with youse guys? how come you can't just say what's on your mind? estj has to be one of the easiest types of people to connect with . . .
    Well, that's the eternal question...I haven't a clue, though I've spent plenty of time arguing with myself about it. Seems like the rational thing to do... be frank and forget all the stupid games, but I guess I'm never sure enough of my own feelings* to put myself out there.

    *Okay, at the risk of sounding completely cold, also, I'm never sure enough of the other person's "worthiness". Why I can't save such decisions for later on, I'm not sure. But sometimes I fall for someone I don't entirely "approve" of, and then I'm stuck with that civil war inside my head also.

    (BTW, Blaze, did you mean ESFj instead of ESTj?)
    Yes I did mean esfj.

    The worthiness factor rings true, too. What constitutes worthiness?

    Yet I can relate a little in that I usually will only be friends or spend time talking with people who I think can add something different, something off the beaten trail. Also who are willing to listen to my crazy ideas and theories and who laugh at my jokes. I don't usually spend a lot of time on people who are in the mainstream of things. Don't know why exactly.
    Entp
    ILE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze
    Yet I can relate a little in that I usually will only be friends or spend time talking with people who I think can add something different, something off the beaten trail. I don't usually spend a lot of time on people who are in the mainstream of things. Don't know why exactly.
    Most people are just too boring. And besides, there are so many of them. I could talk to a normal person any time I want. It's the interesting ones that I value because they're just harder to come by. It also seems that normal people are just too into things that we don't care as much about, but that may be an N/S difference (I don't know... aren't there like, 3 times as many S's than N's?).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Most people are just too boring. And besides, there are so many of them. I could talk to a normal person any time I want. It's the interesting ones that I value because they're just harder to come by. It also seems that normal people are just too into things that we don't care as much about, but that may be an N/S difference (I don't know... aren't there like, 3 times as many S's than N's?).
    Interesting people are just boring people caught off-guard.

    Just my opinion, by the way.
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cone
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Most people are just too boring. And besides, there are so many of them. I could talk to a normal person any time I want. It's the interesting ones that I value because they're just harder to come by. It also seems that normal people are just too into things that we don't care as much about, but that may be an N/S difference (I don't know... aren't there like, 3 times as many S's than N's?).
    Interesting people are just boring people caught off-guard.

    Just my opinion, by the way.


    I will admit that I'm always a bit suspicious of people who declare themselves interesting :wink: And frankly, I don't think being interesting come with type.

    Congratulations on post 1000, Cone!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cone
    Interesting people are just boring people caught off-guard.
    Yes, but you must admit that some people get caught off-guard more than others. :wink:

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze
    The worthiness factor rings true, too. What constitutes worthiness?
    Yet I can relate a little in that I usually will only be friends or spend time talking with people who I think can add something different, something off the beaten trail. Also who are willing to listen to my crazy ideas and theories and who laugh at my jokes. I don't usually spend a lot of time on people who are in the mainstream of things. Don't know why exactly.
    By worthiness I mean that I have to find him interesting, personalities need to click, intelligence, moral values, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by snowyc
    Precisely, I don't know if it's maturity or prolonged celibacy but either way, yes, i wan't a relationship but i don't see myself getting all gushy in lurve as it were. I think i maintain the logical outlook in lurve that i'm a guy, your a girl, er.. we have roles to fulfill.... er... now what.... life does not compute.... 0001... 101010....101010...System CRASH............................
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    hehehe good point! INTjs do not like things that they cannot make total sense of. And when do relatiohsips ever totally make sense?
    Oh yeah. I have one philosophy that I will defend no matter what: Everything should make sense!

    I've pretty much given up on the emotional/"spiritual" aspects of this whole "falling in love" idea. I think the only way to go about it is to find someone I approve of rationally, tell him I am interested in him, and then (contingent upon a positive response to the previous) proceed to fall in love with him and get all gushy and such, since my logical parameters would be satisfied and I can quit analyzing the person. Barring the aforementioned positive response, I would still be saved any emotional disappointment and free to look for other prospects.
    TiNe, LII, INTj, etc.
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    LOL, no one can know if they're interesting much less decide that they're interesting! No, it has nothing to do with how they try to appear. And while interesting situation can follow when people are caught off gaurd, that is not my difinition of an interesting person.

    Interesting people are people who make me think. They are people who have a unique perspective which I do not understand. They are people who intrigue or amuse me. Most people get boring pretty quickly though.

    My INTj is forever interesting, and it's certainly not entirely because he's an INTj...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
    i shot her down. why? doing the opposite would have gone against my values. it made her cry. it made me feel bad. when girls emote at me i tend to enjoy it especially if it is coy
    You enjoy what?

    but exxps seem to come in like emotional conquerors which just makes me want to shoot them down because they presume too much (the kind of girl that just assumes she can make you like her)
    It works much more often than not!

    It worked with my Intj, though he didn't know it... he didn't like my attitude but then he saw me have a nervous breakdown and realized that I was a lot more vunerable than I appreared. Plus I started easing up on the alcohol at about that time, so he was able to see the more rational and laid back side of me (I get waaaayyyyyyyy too much energy when I drink!). My point is that in his mind he was changing his opinion of me based on new knowledge. In my mind I had finally beaten the most worthy conquest I could find. Mwahhhahahahhahahah.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
    once upon a time there was an isfp girl who asked me out. for various reasons i saw that it would not be wise to do this even though i a) enjoyed said isfp b) was attracted to said isfp c) had the advantage of her approaching me for said date (i was unaware of how she felt)

    i shot her down. why? doing the opposite would have gone against my values. it made her cry. it made me feel bad. when girls emote at me i tend to enjoy it especially if it is coy but exxps seem to come in like emotional conquerors which just makes me want to shoot them down because they presume too much (the kind of girl that just assumes she can make you like her)
    Ok, now that's about as arrogant as you can get.
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    i tend to enjoy it especially if it is coy but exxps seem to come in like emotional conquerors which just makes me want to shoot them down because they presume too much (the kind of girl that just assumes she can make you like her)
    Is it really because you assume that they assume or is it because the emotions are just too much for you to handle in the moment (in which case you really can't blame it on the person who just happens to display emotions, but might not be aware of the effect it has on you)? A woman who is coy and shy is less of an emotional threat perhaps? I'm just wondering. ´

    In my mind I had finally beaten the most worthy conquest I could find. Mwahhhahahahhahahah.
    This also sounds somewhat clinical to me. :wink:

    Doesn't anyone here ever fall in love?? Sleepless nights?? Butterflies when there is an e-mail in your inbox?? Head over heels I LOVE this person???

    Is it just me?? :wink:

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