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Thread: have you ever had a thing for your conflictor?

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    Default have you ever had a thing for your conflictor?

    is it possible? has anyone here ever had a romantic relationship with their conflictor? did it work? how did it start? your responses will be gladly appreciated.
    IEI - the nasty kind...

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    uh, no.

    most emphatically NO.

    No, no, no, no.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Ewww cooties! My conflictor is always shocked at why I don't find them attractive, and they try to show off to me in the most ineffective ways... like they will be like... look at my legs, do you like them (in a condescending tone attacking my Fi). And I'm looking at their legs that they spent shaping in the gym, and instead of them being toned and shaped, they are instead powerful and nothing more than that. They present themselves sexually as if they were some kind of thing that they are trying to sell. And their sales tactics hit my POLR, because I have no idea if they are messing with my head or if they are seriously trying to impress me with their Fi.
    -Slava


    What a great replacement for a nany

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    I don't think that a romantic relationship with ones conflictor can work. Superficial friendship - yes, romantic relationship - no.
    me

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    There's one INFj that I hang out with at university, sometimes, but it's just a friend, and nothing more/nothing promisingly more. We get along well Much much better than the way I get along with ISFj-Se.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    No. Not at all.

    I am always amazed when people say they get along with their conflictors so well. I would like to be able to and I try to keep myself open but they aren't budging anyway. They dislike me at least as much as I dislike them.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    i had a thing for her but it wouldn't have worked for non-socionics reasons
    THE BEARD HEARD HIS MOVEMENT AND MADE AN ATTACK RUN BUT DID NOT ACTUALLY ATTACK HIM

    viva palestina

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    Quote Originally Posted by .thursday
    i had a thing for her but it wouldn't have worked for non-socionics reasons
    Cooties?
    -Slava


    What a great replacement for a nany

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    THE BEARD HEARD HIS MOVEMENT AND MADE AN ATTACK RUN BUT DID NOT ACTUALLY ATTACK HIM

    viva palestina

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    I was good friends with an ISFp woman for some years. We met when she had come to town as a tourist, her ex bf could not/would not show her around, so he asked me to spend some time with her. I took her out for dinner, it was ok, so we kept in touch for a few years.

    We never lived in the same city, so we never had a chance to spend much time together -- we would visit each other on occasion or meet for a day elsewhere. Later we just drifted apart.

    In hindsight, we never understood each other; one one occasion she was really mad at me and I hadn't understood why. It only worked as well as it did because we didn't really see each other very often.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    I was attracted to an ESFp once. It was strange as hell, as it was all presocionics, pre MBTI even.

    I had known her somewhat for a few years, and then when we were in class together, we would flirt constantly. But then sometimes not. So it was completely irrational to me. I thought something was wrong with me at first. I thought there was some problem to fix. So I eventually considered, in my mind, a relationship with her, but thankfully I had enough sense to realize that this wasn't right.

    So no, I never had a relationship. She taught me how to flirt, I will reveal that much at least. But I know we could never have a eal relationship.

    She did have an amazing voice and amazing usage of her face, which impressed me most. I can't smile properly on command, but she could use her eyes with complete control.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    I dated an ISFP for a few months. Like UDP, this was before any kind of psychology framework in my head that explained to me what was going on.

    I should have known we weren't compatible, because we couldn't have any kind of substantial conversation. We would just flirt a lot and joke around but it got boring real fast. At least for me, I think she was kinda ok with it. We lasted as long as we did because I was away at school and only saw her every other weekend or so. Every interaction I had with her felt so unnatural and forced, I was very happy when I finally ended it. She's still a fun person to get drunk with though .
    ENTj




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    "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible."
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    I get along superficially with ESTj girls. With S subtypes I can have decent conversations about things like clothes and do practical things with them like shop but they never truly even begin to understand me and vice versa.

    I think ESTj guys are somehow intimidated by me, lol. This could be because when they talk to me I misinterpret their words as criticism and react by going on a long-winded abstract rant about why they're wrong that hurts their brain.

    I think in general that ESTjs misinterpret me when I'm being sarcastic and think that I actually believe what I'm saying or that it's true whereas in reality it's meant as ironic commentary that they can't totally get their heads around... wow that's so patronizing i'm drowning in guilty pleasure
    INFp-Ni

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slava
    Ewww cooties! My conflictor is always shocked at why I don't find them attractive, and they try to show off to me in the most ineffective ways... like they will be like... look at my legs, do you like them (in a condescending tone attacking my Fi). And I'm looking at their legs that they spent shaping in the gym, and instead of them being toned and shaped, they are instead powerful and nothing more than that. They present themselves sexually as if they were some kind of thing that they are trying to sell. And their sales tactics hit my POLR, because I have no idea if they are messing with my head or if they are seriously trying to impress me with their Fi.
    This is a fairly typical thing in these sorts of threads...If someone is unattractive in some way ("instead of them being toned and shaped, they are instead powerful and nothing more than that"), people assume that has something to do with them being conflictors.

    (I'm not saying that your experience isn't valid; I'm just making a general point. )

    Do LIE like people who look like that, then?

    No....It's just that in all types, people range from ordinary-looking to beautiful.

    I also see a similar thing on dual-related threads..."I and my spouse get along great. Therefore, we must be duals. Therefore, I'm an ABCd type."

    There was an article someone posted...I think it was FDG, suggesting that people in fact are attracted to their conflictors and super ego types.

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    I don't think I know any ISTjs IRL.
    INTp
    sx/sp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    It's possible that I married my conflictor. We obviously got along or we wouldn't have gotten married in the first place. He may have been my supervisee instead though. One or the other.
    If you don't mind my asking...what types do you think you and he are?

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    yep, dated my conflictor for two months too.

    It was okay at first, but kinda draining. We dated for a couple of months, it was rocky most of the time.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    Quote Originally Posted by Slava
    Ewww cooties! My conflictor is always shocked at why I don't find them attractive, and they try to show off to me in the most ineffective ways... like they will be like... look at my legs, do you like them (in a condescending tone attacking my Fi). And I'm looking at their legs that they spent shaping in the gym, and instead of them being toned and shaped, they are instead powerful and nothing more than that. They present themselves sexually as if they were some kind of thing that they are trying to sell. And their sales tactics hit my POLR, because I have no idea if they are messing with my head or if they are seriously trying to impress me with their Fi.
    This is a fairly typical thing in these sorts of threads...If someone is unattractive in some way ("instead of them being toned and shaped, they are instead powerful and nothing more than that"), people assume that has something to do with them being conflictors.

    (I'm not saying that your experience isn't valid; I'm just making a general point. )

    Do LIE like people who look like that, then?

    No....It's just that in all types, people range from ordinary-looking to beautiful.

    I also see a similar thing on dual-related threads..."I and my spouse get along great. Therefore, we must be duals. Therefore, I'm an ABCd type."

    There was an article someone posted...I think it was FDG, suggesting that people in fact are attracted to their conflictors and super ego types.
    I just want to clear up, she was pretty damn hot but the way she carried herself made her unattractive to me. She openly advertised certain aspects of her body (ie. showing me her leg and winking) which made it seem as if her leg was something she owned and presented as a material good, and I would preffer that it advertised itself. She also drained the hell out of me when she would wink at me in a superficial way and blow me kisses, and then laughed at my reaction while looking at her friend, as if i was an object of experiment. Not only, not genuine, but mocking. She was very confused why I didn't find her attractive and kept trying to impress me, and then started to criticize me to her friend behind my back trying to make excuses why I wasn't attracted and how I think I'm smart and it goes to my head. I danced with her as well, and tried my best to follow her style but it also drained me to adapt to her. The most draining part of it was the constant Fi wich waranted an enthusiastic response back to her. When I tried to use my Ti with her she just didn't understand it at all and would then pretend that something else grabbed her attention.

    the best way to get rid of them, if you have to, is to say something that is incorrect, they will then proudly correct you while trying to hide their prideful smirk, and they will get all high and mighty and ditch you for a while to spend the emotional profits. Then you can make an excuse for being angry due to them neglecting you.
    -Slava


    What a great replacement for a nany

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    I can add that I knew a m ESTj - f INFp married couple.

    They got married when the INFp woman was in very difficult circumstances, they stayed together for 5 years and had 3 children. However, she was frustrated from the beginning "there is no love connection" and they ended up divorcing bitterly.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Wel,l I think that what Slava is talking about is a relationship between ENTp - ENFj, the relations of Ordering.
    Semiotical process

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsb'07
    Wel,l I think that what Slava is talking about is a relationship between ENTp - ENFj, the relations of Ordering.
    I think it's hard to tell from the description; I'd take be inclined to take his word for it regarding type, although I admit the description makes her sound ESF something. But naturally there are necessarily a lot of things he knows about the person that we don't.

    But it's an interesting study in how people are different, because I can't see why the things Slava found so bothersome would be so bothersome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    IxFj and ExTp. I'm a strongly Fi subtype, and ISFj looks a little more likely than INFj and he's most likely an ENTp, but ESTp is a slight possibility.
    Just curious...in your view, what does ISFj+ENTp look like (or IxFj+ExTj)?

    You don't have to answer or get too detailed, but there's such a dearth of good "conflictor" descriptions out there. Most people assume that simply because of the name "conflictor," people in that relation would be diametrically opposed in every way. But I suspect the reality isn't so extreme.

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    I just reread what I wrote and noticed that I didn't convey the details that matter. You would have to see the feelings involved and the types of laugh and style to see the clash. It wasn't as much the actions, but the manner in wich they were carried out, wich I can't convey. It just felt like she didn't see me as a human, and didn't really listen to me, I felt as if we werent communicating well, but she kept trying, despite the discomfort it was causing me.

    ENFJ actually do similar things, because they try to get into my head and play with my emotions. They try to make me laugh and smile, but look at me as an object. When I use Fe, they laugh mockingly. Then try to find flaws in Ne and go into detail about what Ne does and how its a crazy incorrect way to look at things. They claim they used to look at the world with Ne, but they changed their ways and life got better for them.

    Also not all of my interactions with conflict are like that, this one in particular was the squinty eye type (in the photo shes the one with the wild star shirt)

    -Slava


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    Quote Originally Posted by Slava
    I just reread what I wrote and noticed that I didn't convey the details that matter. You would have to see the feelings involved and the types of laugh and style to see the clash. It wasn't as much the actions, but the manner in wich they were carried out, wich I can't convey. It just felt like she didn't see me as a human, and didn't really listen to me, I felt as if we werent communicating well, but she kept trying, despite the discomfort it was causing me.
    VI....INFp on the left, ESFj on the right...just my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slava
    [img]http://photos-169.ak.facebook.com/ip002/v50/72/115/57603043/n57603
    043_30205169_3808.jpg[/img]
    Darn. In this pic, you remind me of this guy in this class, that constantly wanted to show off his knowledge, and I would put him down all the time telling him that nobody asked (and, actually, nobody asked and he was wrong more often than not). But you're not like that

    Anyway the girl doesn't really look ISFj to me from the pic. The one on your right could be ISFj tho.

    Edit: I agree with Johnatan INFp.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    The one on the right is either isfp, or esfj... the one on the left is deff isfj, an outgoing and loud one. If you ever saw the truman show, she is similar to Truman's wife.




    I think these two are conflicts. Movie is also similar to the matrix.


    He knew he needed his duality, but society didn't want to allow it.
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    Boooooooo!! Evil ISFJ!!



    From: One flew over a coockoo's nest
    -Slava


    What a great replacement for a nany

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    I royally dislike ISFjs and ISTjs, and barely tolerate ESFps ... ESTps I am a little unsure about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slava
    The one on the right is either isfp, or esfj... the one on the left is deff isfj, an outgoing and loud one.
    Yeah, the one on the right looks Alpha SF to me.

    If the one on the left is ISFj, she's the most INFp-looking ISFj I ever saw. Could be the picture; sometimes a pose in a single picture may be deceptive.

    BTW, INFps can be loud and "act out" sometimes. Also, illusionary relations may sometimes lead to people confusing each other.

    But I'm only going on one picture of course. There's just not enough other information to conclude ISFj.

    The more general point: a disappointing experience with someone doesn't prove that it's a "conflict" relation in the socionics sense.

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    Shes too emotionally sharp and focused to be infp
    -Slava


    What a great replacement for a nany

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    The only ISTj I know well (better: I'm aware of) is my granny and I realized it because it's the dual of my mom.

    She's perfectly squared. Deeply fanatic catholic. Incapable of any change and understanding point of views which are foreigner.

    It's difficult to imagine a girl like that, much less having a relationship.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slava
    Shes too emotionally sharp and focused to be infp
    Well, I'm at a big, big disadvantage here. I'm going by a picture; you know the person.

    But I have known INFps who appear "emotionally sharp" and intellectually sharp as well....that sharpness apparently coming from strong Fe...although it may appear "introverted" depending on whether one defines things based on Socionics (expressive F being Fe) or MBTI (natural, unforced F directed inward being Fi).

    I've known a number of ISFjs, and they never appear emotionally sharp; rather, their emotions tend to be more hidden. That's just my experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    I've known a number of ISFjs, and they never appear emotionally sharp; rather, their emotions tend to be more hidden. That's just my experience.
    they all seem like thinkers to me. they are the hardest ones to peg as feelers, just by their actions. easier with ESFp, who still "acts logically until demanded to do so."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slava
    Boooooooo!! Evil ISFJ!!



    From: One flew over a coockoo's nest
    man, that is one ISFj who chose the wrong path! reminds me of a guy in school. not my conflictor but i still can't stand the sonofabitch.
    IEI - the nasty kind...

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    isn't there something to a beautiful butt? :wink:

    opposites attract like magnets do. i started this thread because i was thinking that, in theory, wouldn't one learn the most from his opposite? isn't there a connection in the dark which transcends oceans of difference?
    IEI - the nasty kind...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    Quote Originally Posted by Slava
    Shes too emotionally sharp and focused to be infp
    Well, I'm at a big, big disadvantage here. I'm going by a picture; you know the person.

    But I have known INFps who appear "emotionally sharp" and intellectually sharp as well....that sharpness apparently coming from strong Fe...although it may appear "introverted" depending on whether one defines things based on Socionics (expressive F being Fe) or MBTI (natural, unforced F directed inward being Fi).

    I've known a number of ISFjs, and they never appear emotionally sharp; rather, their emotions tend to be more hidden. That's just my experience.
    By sharp I meant inconsiderate yet F at the same time. Spikes of F that seem like they were computed, but not for the pleasure of others. I think you may have interpreted sharp as precise and tuned-in. Sorry for the ambiguity. There are many subtypes of this type and I remeber posting some pics of three different ones. At this point I know about 5 or 6 subtypes of them, its hard to peg their cognitive differences, but my Ne recorded enough soul data to simulate them in my head. I'm starting to stary a bit from the symetrical socionics approach to this, until I can redefine a new symetry after untangling the current subtype asymetry.
    -Slava


    What a great replacement for a nany

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    It was his wit, and his original and inventive thinking that I was most impressed by. He was like a constant stream of ideas, ways to improve things, possibilities, and that was extremely interesting to me. I'm not uncreative but my mind works nothing the way his did. A whole different way of putting things together. And he was also so open with people, almost nothing embarrassed him, and he talked and made jokes with everyone easily. In other words, he was completely opposite of me, except we had very similar senses of humor. Conversation with him was easy. I can't ever remember any awkwardness.

    It was partly that he was so different, that his mind worked in such a different manner than mine that made him interesting. Wow, his ideas, it's like his brain was running full speed constantly. You know when anndelise starts listing things and saying and and and and -- that's what it was like all the time.

    And it was partly my Fi and also my value system, and unwaveringness in it that interested him.

    He was gone a lot, traveling for work and such. In the beginning of our marriage I only saw him on weekends for several months, and that may have helped mask any problems. I almost left in our first year of marriage. A combination of me not wanting to admit the marriage was a mistake, my unwillingness to give up, and his convincing stopped me, and I didn't seriously consider it again for years.

    So basically you have two very very different people who not only have similar senses of humor and laugh a lot, but find each other's differences intriguing rather than repelling especially at first, and then you couple that with the extreme stubborness and stick-to-it-iveness of an Ij and a very attached Ep, and conflict looks like many other relationships. The difference is the strain and toll it can take on a person to make it continue to work. We don't hate each other. I care about him, his well-being, and what happens to him. I loved him. But just imagining having to live with him fills me with a sense of dread. I'm a strong person, but I have limits to which I can bend before breaking just like everyone else.
    This sounds much more like someone describing their supervisee than their conflictor.

    It seems to me that when people describe their conflictor, there is a certain bewilderment, an awareness of mutual lack of understanding. It's more a "I didn't understand that person, that person didn't understand me". If you got along well enough with your conflictor, you also realize that you weren't really all that close in terms of exhange of ideas and the like.

    When describing their supervisee, people are likely to be more confident (rightly or wrongly) about understanding where the supervisee was coming from; you believe you understand the supervisee, there is more scope for exhange of ideas, but at the same time you see clearly what you see as the supervisee's weaknesses. What the supervisee might be not getting from you - what the supervisee might see as your faults - is something that doesn't cross your mind spontaneously.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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