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Thread: Static/Dynamic + Rational/Irrational = Temperament

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    Default Static/Dynamic + Rational/Irrational = Temperament

    (Recovered from my original notes)

    I just had some thoughts that explain the origin of temperaments, most particularly introversion/extroversion.

    Let us suppose that people are primarily Static or Dynamic, and Rational or Irrational. Extroversion or Introversion being a consequence.

    Static people perceive reality as "fixed", "unchanging". Dynamic people see it as changing all the time.

    Suppose that you are Static and Rational:

    - "things aren't changing, and that is a sort of reassurance, this pleases me" -----> you become calm, unflappable, stable, and you see no reason to take action -----> you become introverted, an IJ.

    Supppose that you Static and Irrational:

    "things aren't changing, and that is a sort of boredom, annoyance, I gotta get some excitement" -----> you become impulsive, mobile, an extrovert, an EP.

    BUT!!! Of course even an EP may decide that stability is a good thing in some aspects. In those aspects he will behave like an IJ - calm, unflappable. And even an IJ may decide that some stable things are boring. In those he will act like an EP.

    Now suppose you are Dynamic and Irrational:

    "things are changing, and this is good, it relieves me of boredom" ------> you become relaxed, go-with-the-flow, content, and see no reason to take initiative. You become introverted, an IP.

    And if you are Dynamic and Rational:

    "things are changing, and this is a source of nervousness, I wish they wouldn't change, I gotta do something to prevent the change, or to stay ahead of them" --------> you become restless, proactive, an extrovert, an EJ.

    BUT!!!!! Of course even an IP will dislike some of the changes happening, and then he is also ennerved by them and springs to action. And of course even an EJ will welcome some of the changes, or not care about them.

    That is why an IP can act as EJ, and an EJ as IP -- -- - and the same for IJ and EP.

    And this is more likely than for an IP to act as EP, nor the EJ as IJ, etc.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    When I first published this I stated that the Static/Dynamic and Rational/Irrational, combined, necessarily led to Introversion or Extroversion as a consequence.

    I still think it's the most obvious way to look at it, but it must be said that any sequence may lead to the result, as in a real equation. It's difficult to say what "really" happens.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Somehow I wasn't loged out though I am sure I didi that.

    In Estonian they somwhere mentioned that the temperaments are similar to Eysenek's temperaments. Eysenek had choleric, melancholic, sanguine and phlegmatic. Some russians connected it with socionics. So EJ is choleric, EP is sanguine, IP is melancholic and IJ is phlegmatic. I can imagine that reading about Eysenek's temperament is also usefull for socionics.

    I think that we should connect diferent typologies with socionics. Like there are A and B personalities. They surely are related to socionics. A type seems very much to be EJ temperament. B type IP temperament.

    We should research such things and try to put it into one with our theory.
    Semiotical process

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    There was a large thread "On Temperaments" in Gamma, but it has been lost.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    I think Static people see external reality as fixed, and internally, they are active in their judgements - they are able to deal with external reality with little pondering about the value of external objects in the here and now (they have already explored all the possible actions of objects). Ixxjs are less impulsive than Exxps because they are energy saving, by exploring the possibilties\power of their actions through objects internally.

    Dynamic people see objects through the course of time (not in the here and now), and wait until the correct moment to act (when objects are in the correct permutation) - they are passive to objects in the here and now. Static types, on the otherhand, take the appropiate action with an object in the here and now with their internally based plans.

    So, all xxxJ types are proactive, just not externally. Static Ixxjs are stable because they are introverted (energy-conserving) and are confident in the internal states based in the here and now, not inclined to interact with external objects. Dynamic Ixxps are instable because their internal state isn't fixed in the here and now - they are waiting for the right moment (when external reality matches their internal state).
    EII-Ne
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    So both rationality/irrationality and dynamic/static have to do with fixedness and change. Except one dichotomy has to do with perception, and the other one has to do with values.

    EP temperament perceives fixedness but wants change: which is a disonant situation and encourages action to resolve it.
    IJ temperament perceives fixedness and wants fixedness: which is a harmonic situation and encourages relaxedness.
    EJ temperament perceives change but wants fixedness: which is a disonant situation and encourages action to resolve it.
    IP temperament perceives change and wants change: which is a harmonic situation and encourages relaxedness.

    Statics perceive fixedness, Dynamics perceive change
    Rationals value fixedness, Irrationals value change
    Extroversion = action, Introversion = relaxedness

    Rationality is basically the mindset of wanting to personaly keep on track with things, IJs not really doing so actively but mentally, and EJs doing so actively, which keeps IJs happy, and IPs probably wouldnt mind either way, however EPs are more likely to actively influence positive change and IPs would typically like it more then they would liking active influence to keep on track of things. I can see IPs seeing EJ behavior as useless because they don't see the value of rationality. They mostly don't see the point of doing action just to keep things exactly the same in relativity or to stay on top of things. It does not compute, as much as going from having $10000 to $30000 computes. They see the difference, not always the relativity in the situation. For example, IPs might value gaining $20000 more than the fact that an opposing company gained as much as they did. Where as IJs would see the EJs attempt of gaining the $20000 as an attempt to stay in competition. IJ would also have a different reaction and say that EPs action to change things is unnecessary, liking the way it is now and wanting to give it some time to gradually develop, seeing most change as "too soon." So you have an essential duality pattern there.

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    EP is EP ego, IJ superego, IP superid and EJ id.
    IJ is IJ ego, EP superego, EJ superid and IP id.
    EJ is EJ ego, IP superego, IJ superid and EP id.
    IP is IP ego, EJ superego, EP superid and IJ id.



    LII-Ne

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