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Thread: Kindred type differences: ILE-ENTp and IEE-ENFp

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    Éminence grise mikemex's Avatar
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    Default Kindred type differences: ILE-ENTp and IEE-ENFp

    I can see myself as both. Just as I start to see myself as one type I start to notice many things of the other which are 100% like me.

    Any ideas?

    Some personal details for the record:

    * My best friend is ENTj. I have annother ENTj friend which I spend quite a bit of time with too.
    * I have a very good friend who is ISTp. When we spend time togheter, he seems to light up quite a bit.
    * This ISTp friend more than once has asked me about learning something for the purpose of explaining it to him.
    * I have an ISFp friend which I like but I try to keep at distance because she's too clingy.
    * I know annother ISFp who feels great sympathy for me.
    * I attract both ENFj and INFp like flies to honey.
    * There has been more than one ESTj that is immediatly attracted to me, just to end up in a big dissapointment for both.
    * I learn concepts readly, without effort. I learned to read in about a week and once I left the school, i got my grades in matter of weeks.
    * I have excellent business logic (can have endless discussions with my ENTj friends about business plans). Can easily take a project and divide it into a coherent set of progressive goals. I often lack the will power to do it myself, though.
    * I am highly emotional and often feel "on the spot".
    * I like music quite a bit. I listen to it almost all day. Some pieces really touch the inside of me.
    * Some movies can make me cry.
    * I feel a lot of empathy for people.
    * I can notice my own ethical mistakes readly.
    * I can also notice my own logical mistakes.
    * Both logical and ethical mistakes are terribly painful to me.
    * I am quiet. People has told me I have a very intimidating aspect when I am alone or with unknown people. People used to ask me why was I so serious when I was young. I've seen people to walk away from me several times.
    * I find it easy to tell my personal problems to people I don't know personally (over Internet for example) but I don't really share them with my immediate family or friends.
    * I spend a good amount of my time with my father, who is an INTj. He enjoys my company very much.
    * I get along very well with my ESFj brother and an ESFj friend of my dad.
    * I can't stand ESTp.
    * I spend most of my time inventing things or reading.
    * I'm the most computer-skilled person I know. I've done boot loaders, kernels, compilers, games in the past.
    * I know several ENFp. I don't really feel I am like them.
    * I don't know a single ENTp.
    [] | NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)

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    Which would you more dislike being in a close relationship with:

    ISFj
    or
    ISTj

    ?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Éminence grise mikemex's Avatar
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    I don't have much interest in either so I do not know many. I know a person who is likely to be an ISFj (communications engineer who later became accupunture therapist and who enjoys helping people) and last time things started to get very heated for nothing. I had to leave his home.

    However, ISTj also piss me off to no end. They put too much emphasis on credentials and since I don't have many (to them) they readly say my opinion is wrong because I do not have their great experience.
    [] | NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)

    You know what? You're an individual, and that makes people nervous. And it's gonna keep making people nervous for the rest of your life.
    - Ole Golly from Harriet, the spy.

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    Do you fancy yourself to be very productive in attitude (delta) or do you sail at a more leisurely alpha pace?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Éminence grise mikemex's Avatar
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    Dunno on that. I would say I'm leisurely oriented but aren't ENFp like that anyway?
    [] | NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)

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    - Ole Golly from Harriet, the spy.

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    ENFp all the way
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Yeah, I don't really get ENTp vibe myself.

    What type would you rather be, if you could choose?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    I rather think that you are INFj. When reading your short description about yourself, it seemed to me that you can easily use both , T and F which means that you are a) rational, because b) one of those functions has to be your function of Role. I'll explain why. People usually can youse both, their first and third one easily. INFj can easily be Feeling person and again change into Thinking one. But we use one of the functions more often and with more ease. The Role function is just a role what we paly in a situation. So for INFj it means that he or she just plays a role of a thinking man or a woman. When selfcontroll looses, when he or she feels itself normal again, the first one will take over. And INFj is Feeling type again.

    But again it could be other way around. This quiet feelingful aura around you could be your third one, the Role function. And you are really INTj with a strong Fi on the fird.

    So you could also be INTJ with iNtuitive subtype. Sometimes you act ENTp, sometimes your Fi takes over and you are ENFp or INFj. This is how INTJ with N usually looks.

    What do you think?
    Semiotical process

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsb'07
    I rather think that you are INFj. When reading your short description about yourself, it seemed to me that you can easily use both , T and F which means that you are a) rational, because b) one of those functions has to be your function of Role. I'll explain why. People usually can youse both, their first and third one easily. INFj can easily be Feeling person and again change into Thinking one. But we use one of the functions more often and with more ease. The Role function is just a role what we paly in a situation. So for INFj it means that he or she just plays a role of a thinking man or a woman. When selfcontroll looses, when he or she feels itself normal again, the first one will take over. And INFj is Feeling type again.

    But again it could be other way around. This quiet feelingful aura around you could be your third one, the Role function. And you are really INTj with a strong Fi on the fird.

    So you could also be INTJ with iNtuitive subtype. Sometimes you act ENTp, sometimes your Fi takes over and you are ENFp or INFj. This is how INTJ with N usually looks.

    What do you think?
    Sounds good. But that's exactly the point of the thread. How to be certain? Where to look at?
    [] | NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)

    You know what? You're an individual, and that makes people nervous. And it's gonna keep making people nervous for the rest of your life.
    - Ole Golly from Harriet, the spy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsb'07
    So you could also be INTJ with iNtuitive subtype. Sometimes you act ENTp, sometimes your Fi takes over and you are ENFp or INFj. This is how INTJ with N usually looks.

    What do you think?
    I used to think I might be ENFp a long time ago. I think I am an intuitive subtype INTj.

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    Which flame warrior do you identify with more?

    "Ego" which is more ENTp:
    http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/ego.htm

    Or "Issues" which is more ENFp:
    http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/issues.htm

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    Rather, Eagle Scout:
    http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/war...eaglescout.htm

    Still, I don't get straight answers on what makes INFj, INTj, ENFp, ENTp different from each other.
    [] | NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)

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    - Ole Golly from Harriet, the spy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex
    Rather, Eagle Scout:
    http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/war...eaglescout.htm

    Still, I don't get straight answers on what makes INFj, INTj, ENFp, ENTp different from each other.
    I'd give you the temperament thread link, but I ceased to exist. Both EP and IJ are static types (Reinin dichotomy), so I can hardly relate, but I can give you a very general description.

    ENxp like change or at least they can cope well with it. They don't like to concentrate on one thing for long. Some say that dominants are the worst at staying put and concentrating on one thing. Their moods change rapidly - true for both ENTp and ENFp. ENxp see the world as a stagnant place and try to break free from the boring routine that they see everywhere around them. Usually I tend to (mis)type all sorts of rebels as EP. Somewhat rapid and disjunct mannerisms.

    INxj like things to stay as they are. Like Expat wrote a long time ago, they see the world as a stagnant place and they like it that way. Not likely to become rebels IMO . They really hate it when they are forced to confront people - they hate being pushed around. (everyone does, but they feel smothered, cornered, agitated). Somewhat slow and calm mannerisms.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex
    Rather, Eagle Scout:
    http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/war...eaglescout.htm

    Still, I don't get straight answers on what makes INFj, INTj, ENFp, ENTp different from each other.
    Heh I didn't seriously mean you are one of those Just that it seems ENTps are likely to have a big Ego and ENFps are likely to have Issues

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex
    Rather, Eagle Scout:
    http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/war...eaglescout.htm

    Still, I don't get straight answers on what makes INFj, INTj, ENFp, ENTp different from each other.
    Heh I didn't seriously mean you are one of those Just that it seems ENTps are likely to have a big Ego and ENFps are likely to have Issues
    yes we do have kinda big egos, but estp egos are way bigger, for sure.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    It was really funny and read all the descriptions. Maybe not structured as socionics but quite insightful, nonetheless.

    Well, I think I'm right where I started. I think I have dominating Ne (everything in my life revolves around it) but how to tell what's the secondary function?

    As I said, I invent things and spend a good deal of my time doing engineering stuff.

    I think that to be good at it you need to have strong Ne (good grasp of possibilities) and Te (to determine what's efficient, what works, and what doesn't) because I generally do not build prototypes; I do all the debugging in my head.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the Te function in the ENFp accepting and producing in the ENTp? If I use Te regularily it would mean that it has to be producing, and thus I'm ENTp.

    Besides, I really think the emotional level of people is beyond socionics scope, so being highly emotional doesn't mean you are F. I don't really think T are less emotional than F; it's just a matter of being less aware and expressive about it. I really don't have a good idea on what people thinks about me.

    If something contains some philosophical meaning it can touch me, but more than once someone told me "your aunt/cosuing/granny died" and I honestly think "so what?".
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    Default ENTp vs ENFp

    I have already forgotten the thumb rules in spotting these. And I guess the threads related to this were deleted. We need a new thread.

    So I call for theoretical and practical advice

    I can start with a theoretical one...
    ENTp appreciates Ti and Fe over Fi and is a bit suspicious of Te
    ENFp appreciates Fi and Te over Ti and is a bit suspicious of Fe
    (but how to best apply this in practice?)

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    Very simplistically, you could see the ENTp as a sort of potential

    - mad scientist
    - eccentric entrepreneur


    The ENFp, you would see as a potential

    - hippy, NGO do-gooder
    - eccentric salesman
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Very simplistically, you could see the ENTp as a sort of potential

    - mad scientist
    - eccentric entrepreneur


    The ENFp, you would see as a potential

    - hippy, NGO do-gooder
    - eccentric salesman
    NGO?

    Also, how would you differentiate an "eccentric entrepreneur" from an "eccentric salesman?" The terms seem very similar...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elro
    NGO?
    Non-governmental organization. Things like Greenpeace, Medecins sans Frontičeres, etc.


    Quote Originally Posted by Elro
    Also, how would you differentiate an "eccentric entrepreneur" from an "eccentric salesman?" The terms seem very similar...
    Hmm -- yes, they are. I was thinking of the "eccentric entrepreneur" as more like someone like Howard Hughes, a guy more focused on the originality and inventiveness of his business ventures than on their profitability.

    "Eccentric salesman" would also be full of "brilliant ideas", but more people-focused, that is, trying to develop them through their contacts with people.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Think Kim and anndelise vs me and Polly.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze8
    Think Kim and anndelise vs me and Polly.
    For some reason that made me think of mud wrestling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze8
    Think Kim and anndelise vs me and Polly.
    For some reason that made me think of mud wrestling.
    Dirty mind.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Very simplistically, you could see the ENTp as a sort of potential

    - mad scientist
    - eccentric entrepreneur
    - absent-minded professor

    The ENFp, you would see as a potential

    - hippy, NGO do-gooder
    - eccentric salesman
    Edited to add.
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
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    escaping anndelise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Very simplistically, you could see the ENTp as a sort of potential

    - mad scientist
    - eccentric entrepreneur
    - absent-minded professor

    The ENFp, you would see as a potential

    - hippy, NGO do-gooder
    - eccentric salesman
    Edited to add.
    hey, if we're adding, add in something like
    ENFp - asks a lot of personal questions for no purpose other than to satisfy their own curiosity
    or maybe something like
    ENFp - absent minded advocate
    or - absent minded diplomat
    I'm sure there's a better term SOMEwhere

    not all ENFps are hippies nor want to go out and change/sell the world *pouts*
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze8
    Think Kim and anndelise vs me and Polly.
    For some reason that made me think of mud wrestling.
    Dirty mind.
    Lol. Actually it made me think of show wrestling first (WWF etc.). There are a lot of 2vs2 matches there. Then I developed the thought further and added "mud" there I probably should have left it at wrestling without the mud

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    lolz at this....xox da horndog

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    I don't know that it would be much of a match.

    I know I'd have a hard time with the thought of possibly physically hurting Blaze or Polly....on the other hand, I don't doubt their willingness to hurt me and Kim ...after all, it's all for fun (or money).
    (fighting with women scares me!!!)

    I'm not sure where Kim stands on the whole wrestling issue.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    C'mon girls, XoX was only joking in good fun.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-4w5-9w1

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    Woah!!! Ninja!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise

    I'm not sure where Kim stands on the whole wrestling issue.
    BRING IT ON, BIATCHES!

    Oh...wait....you are saying I am one of the ENFps??? Darn...

    Uhm....

    I think we should have a serious talk about joining our forces to save the world! Save mountain gorillas! Lead bitter socionists back to the path of happiness! Write a 16types epic!

    At least don't hurt me...
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    ― Pablo Neruda

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    Woah ... the ENFps should all go wrestle each other? Hmmmm ... are you sure that is a good idea? ........... eh ..........

    In other news .....

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    Ne wrestlemania, hahahaha

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    This is just from personal experience but...

    Professionally:
    ENFP: Tend to be more social; much more idealistic; thinks fostering more social atmospheres at work is important; can overwhelm those around them sometimes with their enthusiasm and then the hurt they feel when others don't share it. They are likely to be more chatty with their co-workers.

    ENTP: I don't really care about social stuff at work. Rather than a party to recognize accomplishments I'd be more satisfied with a plaque or monetary reward. I socialize at work because I have to, not want to. I'm not very chatty while working, actually chatty people annoy me at work. I'm am very tactful though and tend to get along superficially with most. If someone tries to attack me in a professional atmosphere I go from ENFP-like to a lawyer who will make no bones about how I can take them out.

    Socially:
    ENFP: Has a bit more emotional drama going on. Nothing major but it seems major to them. They look for attention for their feelings and want you to be attentive to them. They need affirmation from others when it comes to their personality or appearance. Tends to gossip. Spend time nurturing their friendships.

    ENTP: I have more general chaos going on in my life. I have had people describe me as 'extreme'. I take risks so sometimes the payoffs are really good or really really bad. I blow it off usually though. I gossip but more in terms of trying to understand the behavior. Its not about sharing 'news', its about understanding. I spend little time nurturing my friendships. My closest friends are very low maintenance. We can go for awhile without talking and just pick up where we left off. They don't mind when I ignore them because I get an interest in something.

    Socially, ENFPs and ENTPs get along very well. We are both likely to protect those around us especially if we see them as weaker. We will do it differently though.

    e.g. have a scenario where a friend of an EN*P is being picked on.

    ENFP reaction: To offer emotional support, take that person's side and make them feel better. Maybe even say mean things about the bully.

    ENTP reaction: Analyze the individual doing the bullying, suggests possible ways to take the bully out in a way that will completely squash their ego so they won't even dare try it again.

    ENTPs will handle this situation much more aggressively. When I want to win, I don't often lose.
    Polly
    ENTp

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    Polly, your ENFp descriptions sound quite ESFp (ethical subtype) to me. I think it is very easy to confuse the two, but the ESFp will be the one concerned with social atmosphere and actually showing their disappointment when their enthusiasm is not shared (ENFps rarely show disappointment, partly because they don't want to step on people's toes). ENFp is not likely to influence social atmosphere openly (unless they are very comfortable with the group) and aggressively and their need for affirmation is not very obvious (my colleagues would never know about it. Only my friends do).

    Overall, ESFps (only ethical subtype) can come across as more "in-your-face," chatty, and more confident ENFps.

    But that might just be my impression, so don't mind me.
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    I socialize at work because I have to, not want to
    how sad

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    @Kim, its definately not at the same level you would see in an ESFP. I mean more in a comparison to an ENTP.

    ENFPs and ENTPs I find do come across very much alike. Even more similar when younger. As for showing their disapointment, maybe it has more to do with my personality that I see it as opposed to what others might pick up. When I sense it, I'll try to make them feel better without being asked.

    The ENFPs I know are pretty wise in sensing appropriate versus inappropriate (unless at a party and are in complete boistrous mode but then its just causing more fun for everyone so I guess in that sense it is appropriate). They aren't gushy innapropriately usually. But around their close friends, yeah I do have to make a bit of an effort to make them feel good about things I don't worry so much about. If I don't, they'll go fishing hehe.

    Overall we tend to get along well. Unless you see us side by the side though its hard to tell the difference, then once you see it...its like, of course!

    Hmmm maybe this will help. I'm often told I think like a man. I don't hear that being said to my ENFP friends much.

    how sad
    Why is that sad? I enjoy my work and get a lot of satisfaction from it. I have a large social circle outside of work and a couple of close friends who I confide in.

    I don't understand why some people think its so important to socialize at work. Its not what I'm being paid for. I like spending my social time with those I really relate to and it has meaning rather than superficial friendships.
    Polly
    ENTp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polly
    how sad
    Why is that sad? I enjoy my work and get a lot of satisfaction from it. I have a large social circle outside of work and a couple of close friends who I confide in.

    I don't understand why some people think its so important to socialize at work. Its not what I'm being paid for. I like spending my social time with those I really relate to and it has meaning rather than superficial friendships.
    okay okay - the way said it kinda puts it into perpective, though by the way you said it it kinda sounded like you had to be with people you didnt like to be with, and since I myself dont like to do that(be with people I cant stand, even if I "have" to) I was wondering how you handled it.

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    Basically everything that was just said.

    ENTp's are more "to the point," I also think that they are sometimes more aggressive on a regular basis.

    ENFp's are skilled charmers.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polly
    This is just from personal experience but...

    Professionally:
    ENFP: Tend to be more social; much more idealistic; thinks fostering more social atmospheres at work is important; can overwhelm those around them sometimes with their enthusiasm and then the hurt they feel when others don't share it. They are likely to be more chatty with their co-workers.

    ENTP: I don't really care about social stuff at work. Rather than a party to recognize accomplishments I'd be more satisfied with a plaque or monetary reward. I socialize at work because I have to, not want to. I'm not very chatty while working, actually chatty people annoy me at work. I'm am very tactful though and tend to get along superficially with most. If someone tries to attack me in a professional atmosphere I go from ENFP-like to a lawyer who will make no bones about how I can take them out.

    Socially:
    ENFP: Has a bit more emotional drama going on. Nothing major but it seems major to them. They look for attention for their feelings and want you to be attentive to them. They need affirmation from others when it comes to their personality or appearance. Tends to gossip. Spend time nurturing their friendships.

    ENTP: I have more general chaos going on in my life. I have had people describe me as 'extreme'. I take risks so sometimes the payoffs are really good or really really bad. I blow it off usually though. I gossip but more in terms of trying to understand the behavior. Its not about sharing 'news', its about understanding. I spend little time nurturing my friendships. My closest friends are very low maintenance. We can go for awhile without talking and just pick up where we left off. They don't mind when I ignore them because I get an interest in something.

    Socially, ENFPs and ENTPs get along very well. We are both likely to protect those around us especially if we see them as weaker. We will do it differently though.

    e.g. have a scenario where a friend of an EN*P is being picked on.

    ENFP reaction: To offer emotional support, take that person's side and make them feel better. Maybe even say mean things about the bully.

    ENTP reaction: Analyze the individual doing the bullying, suggests possible ways to take the bully out in a way that will completely squash their ego so they won't even dare try it again.

    ENTPs will handle this situation much more aggressively. When I want to win, I don't often lose.
    This seems to me to be a very accurate post. One of my best friends is an ENFp and all of this seems to fit. I agree completely.
    ENTp

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