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Thread: The Greenhouse Effect is Real

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    Default The Greenhouse Effect is Real

    I was going to google some pictures of Finland at the moment, but could not find much...

    Anyway it is suppposed to be the coldest time of the year, usually well below freezing with a lot of snow - and now it is +7 °Celcius (45 ° Fahrenheit) and raining! This has been the warmest winter in my lifetime, and indeed in the recorded history of Finland. What is it like elsewhere?

    Tell George W Bush to join the Kyoto Protocol, or the glaciers will melt and the ocean level rise.
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    It's much hotter here than usual too.
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    pretty soon our penguins and polar bears will have no place to live.

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    HAHAHAHA. Yeah, it's nice and warm this year.

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    Default Re: The Greenhouse Effect is Real

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousSoul
    Tell George W Bush to join the Kyoto Protocol, or the glaciers will melt and the ocean level rise.
    Nothing to do with Bush, it was the US Senate who voted unanimously against it in the Clinton administration. Clinton "signed" it just for bullshit reasons. Bush probably couldn't get it approved if he wanted to (which he doesn't).

    Global warming is real, whether this is due to the greenhouse effect is something else --

    Not to worry, Europe in the Roman Empire was even hotter than today.
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    It is bad for the tourism industry which is just developing here. People don't want to travel to Lapland ski centers and sit in rain looking at a skiing hills which have no snow.

    But this particular winter is warm because of combined effects of raging El Nino and global warming. Next winter is probably different. However El Nino and such phenomenas seem to occur more frequently all the time.

    Somehow I don't think Kioto protocol is the answer anymore. The window of opportunity for it is closing. New kind of agreements and measures are needed and US, China, India etc big names need to be brought in too.
    And I'm not sure if human actions are the only contributor and if this actually represents a long term trend but the only thing we can do at the moment is cut the emissions somehow and hope it has an effect.

    I think you better prepare yourself for an interesting future as I see the current more acute world problems (clashes of civilizations, China wanting to be a superpower etc) will distract nations from the environmental issues in the near future. It is hard to bring everybody into agreement of who should do what. No one wants to give up more than the competitors will. And there is lack of trust. Competition of world dominance (psychological and physical) and guaranteeing access to energy and perhaps even water in the future is too heated.

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    Right now, where I am, it's cold as FUCK.

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    Right now, where I am, it's cold as FUCK.
    what do you expect from living with Joy?

    (I couldn't resist )

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    Right now, where I am, it's cold as FUCK.
    what do you expect from living with Joy?

    (I couldn't resist )
    I don't live with Joy...

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    oh, I thought you did... nevermind. joke horribly ruined

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    yeah, he doesn't live here, he works here
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    oh, I thought you did... nevermind. joke horribly ruined

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    It is very warm here too. Temps in the mid 40's F, usually it's in the single digits this time of year. And I'm bummed because there is no snow and I can't go skiing.

    ILE

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    Tomorrow's supposed to be the coldest day we've had this year and the rest of the week looks like it'll be cold as crap too. Here in the Portland the temp's in winter usually stay around the 40's during most of the winter, while dipping down a bit more every now and then. It's supposed to be in the teens tomorrow.

    Since most of the weather across the US comes from this way i'm gonna go out on a limb and let everyone else know it's about to get colder in the next few days...lol :wink:

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    It's been very very warm here for this time of the year, but it's below freezing today anyway, though not much below freezing.

    Oh well, in a couple of weeks I'm headed to a much much warmer climate.
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    Default Re: The Greenhouse Effect is Real

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousSoul

    Tell George W Bush to join the Kyoto Protocol, or the glaciers will melt and the ocean level rise.
    good luck.

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    lol My palm tree seed business is loving it! So far we really have not had a winter over here, it has been in the 80's.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
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    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

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    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    go to the first link

    and then in the upper left:

    "cause and effect, a photographic case"
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    its all very simple. the world is doomed. most of the human population will probably die within the next two hundred years or so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    its all very simple. the world is doomed. most of the human population will probably die within the next two hundred years or so.
    Don't focus too much on the fourth dimension! Fifth is there too.

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    Lake Chad is drying up because irrigation water is constantly being sucked out of it, not to mention that the lake almost dried up by itself at the beginning of the 20th century.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    its all very simple. the world is doomed. most of the human population will probably die within the next two hundred years or so.
    Don't focus too much on the fourth dimension! Fifth is there too.
    lmao. excellent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    its all very simple. the world is doomed. most of the human population will probably die within the next two hundred years or so.
    Not that it realistically matters to me, but I'm hoping for a Star Trek style utopian future for humanity.

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    Default Re: The Greenhouse Effect is Real

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousSoul
    I was going to google some pictures of Finland at the moment, but could not find much...

    Anyway it is suppposed to be the coldest time of the year, usually well below freezing with a lot of snow - and now it is +7 °Celcius (45 ° Fahrenheit) and raining! This has been the warmest winter in my lifetime, and indeed in the recorded history of Finland. What is it like elsewhere?

    Tell George W Bush to join the Kyoto Protocol, or the glaciers will melt and the ocean level rise.
    here in NJ usa - typically we have cold weather with some snow. a few days ago i had shorts on outside as it was 70deg. today it's like 30deg. this weekend it's back to 50's or so. up and down. things that grew leaves and pollen in may, have leaves now. i still see bugs, they should be frozen by now.
    INTJ, INTp, ILI

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    I'm really looking forward to the next major outbreak of west nile virus. Thank you, Mr Snow Miser, for taking the year off and letting Mr Heat Miser take you in that ass for so long.


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    Okay, I am not a global climate expert, but I can say a couple of relativley informed things (although I guess I can still be wrong).

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...121901769.html

    http://www.arborday.org/media/mapchanges.cfm

    ...and I can give you guys more maps and other items of the like if you want me to, it happens to be something I pay attention to because I get into horticulture down here in Florida. In Florida, nurseries and people like me use Hardiness zones as kind of a second language when talking about what grows where and how long, etc.

    There is some evidence that this has more to do with a long term cycle than anything else.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    -- Mark Twain

    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

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    Adding on:

    The "new" climate zones are actually very similar to ones drawn up in the 1960's before some really bad winters happened from about 1977 to 1989, or at least that is the way it was in Florida.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    -- Mark Twain

    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

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    Default Re: The Greenhouse Effect is Real

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Not to worry, Europe in the Roman Empire was even hotter than today.
    How can you know that?


    Anyway, in Albany the weather goes from 30 degrees (F) one day to 70 degrees the next... is that a since of the Green House Effect or something?
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    Default Re: The Greenhouse Effect is Real

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky

    Anyway, in Albany the weather goes from 30 degrees (F) one day to 70 degrees the next... is that a since of the Green House Effect or something?
    not necessarily.

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    i'm no meteorologist, but in recent years one trend i have noticed is that the early part of the winter has been generally milder than usual, while in the latter part a more normally cold temperature is established. usually, the mild part has not extended into january. however, the unusually warm winter may simply be an extension of this trend if the latter part of january and february become very cold.


    i don't know what this means in terms of global warming (quite probably nothing) or if it applies outside of the immediate vicinity of the northeastern united states.

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    I don't know very much about global warming, can you show me some of the raw data (ie amount of carbon/how much warmer it is making the earth)?

    I know a lot about the Florida climate because I talk to a lot of people who do any type of argiculture. I was under the impression that most of the warming that we have had was due to a natural long term cycle.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    -- Mark Twain

    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

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    lol @ niffweed's remark.

    But I admit the climate change is pretty crazy. We had our first snow today. And this is Michigan!

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    Default Re: The Greenhouse Effect is Real

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Not to worry, Europe in the Roman Empire was even hotter than today.
    How can you know that?
    From historical and archaelogical records of the kind of agriculture they had in areas which now wouldn't sustain them; also remains of vegetation in the Alps.

    I don't have a online reference now, I'm quoting from memory what I've read in some articles some time ago.
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    Expat, I, too, am quoting from memory so correct me if I am wrong. Some people argue that the temperature rise is normal. But I thought some scientists have actually estimated the amount of greenhouse gas we've produced and of course the effect the gases caused. The thing is, our greenhouse gas is accelerating (if not causing) the temperature rise.


    And just recently, I heard in the news that some scientists have raised concerns that the rate of temp rise will not be gradual but be exponential because as ice melts, there's more water to absorb heat (ice rebounces the light rays from sun).

    Maybe the temp rise is natural and uncontrollable; we can determine it's pace.

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