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Thread: an example of explaining a Si PoLR in non-socionics terms

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    Default an example of explaining a Si PoLR in non-socionics terms

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    you know... once I hit my knee and I had a 5cm bruise for 3 weeks!

    I have probably misunderstood things, but I can't really see how a person of a type which has high respect for money and good ability to use it would spend so much on something that barely means anything at all. I can't see people soooo concerned with their PoLR that they would spend a lot of time and money trying to be better at it. It would be like me taking dancing lessons (I "failed" aerobics! never could move the right way...) or an INTp willingly reading bunch of self-help books about dressing styles and dating etiquette...

    PS! if you're wondering, I unignored you for a moment there and I've done it before... I just never learn.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    PS! if you're wondering, I unignored you for a moment there and I've done it before... I just never learn.
    lol it's all good

    you know... once I hit my knee and I had a 5cm bruise for 3 weeks!

    I have probably misunderstood things, but I can't really see how a person of a type which has high respect for money and good ability to use it would spend so much on something that barely means anything at all. I can't see people soooo concerned with their PoLR that they would spend a lot of time and money trying to be better at it. It would be like me taking dancing lessons (I "failed" aerobics! never could move the right way...) or an INTp willingly reading bunch of self-help books about dressing styles and dating etiquette...
    I don't really have a choice at this point in time. I have to concern myself with Si. I've made mistakes in the past during periods of healing and have really paid for it.

    An ENTj here told me that he takes certain nutritional supplements everyday because he understands the intellectual reasons for doing so. Nutritional supplements are a perfect solution for a Si PoLR during times of healing or trying to look better or accomplish something, imo. I'd gladly pay money to not have to worry about Si crap that I would otherwise have no choice about (or would suffer/have suffered greatly as a result of ignoring).

    An example would be energy... low energy has always been a problem for me. It's kept me from achieving as much as I've desired at the rate I wished to move forward. What did I do as a result? Sleep a reasonable amount, exercise, and eat well? Nope. The obvious answer is... Buy pills! Sometimes these pills were harmful for me, sometimes they were good for me... but in any case, it's a scientific way of transforming money into a way of not having to take proper care of myself. What could be a better example of Si/Se in ENTjs than that?

    (and I haven't spent a lot of money on nutritional supplements btw... Peter's dad bought most of them lol, and what I've bought hasn't really been all that expensive)
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    Were you REALLY 34G?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    lol yeah... I had back and neck problems for a reason!

    I guess they took like six lbs off, which doesn't sound like much... but imagine attaching a rope to a 6 lbs bag of sugar and hanging it around your neck and walking around like that all the time.
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    3 kg of titties does sound like a lot.

    I know one ISFp who is the worst health-freak ever! Very paranoid about nutrition and all that and she's not even all that healthy. She's just paranoid. And I know an ESTj who is very paranoid about health. He does do a lot bad things with his body, but still lots of exercise and low fat food etc.

    It's much like with me and popularity. I'm very concerned about public appearance, but I'm still not the most popular kid ever. Although lately I've been acting like a classic ENFj and I think just about everyone knows me by know. They might not all know my name, but when I spot someone familiar, I can see that they recognized me as well.

    so nothing proven... taking bunch of nutrition pills does not mean you've got PoLR.
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    The part about the Si PoLR wasn't related to the pills in any way except in what I wrote about my skills with maintaining a healthy diet/lifestyle otherwise. I'm not trying to prove anything... just offering an example that people can either agree with or disagree with as they see fit. Here's the part that I was referencing:

    While I have total faith in the Healing Diet... I've never been good about putting a whole lot of effort into eating. I know that I *could* follow the healing diet, but the idea of needing to do that in order to give my body what it needs to heal really stresses me out. I used the list from the Healing Diet when I went grocery shopping before surgery, and now I eat what's in the house for the most part, but I don't like thinking about it in terms of following a diet. However, if I didn't take supplements I would be stressed out thinking that I *have* to eat certain things and make sure I get enough of this or that, and if I blew it one day and ate something that wasn't good for me instead of what is, I would feel very guilty, like I'd failed... and the threat of feeling that way would loom over every food choice I made. I just cannot deal with that kind of stress, especially while I'm healing.

    I think that the Healing Diet and the recipes provided here are excellent and that it is very wise to follow them... for those who have in their nature the ability to do so without it causing stress or anxiety for them. My mom is like that... she has severe health problems that she is managing very well with the use of a strict diet given to her by a doctor who specializes in dietary and natural treatments. I have a lot of respect for her and anyone else who has the temperament or personality or whatever to be able to put that kind of effort into eating. I'm just not one of them. I think different people have different strengths and weaknesses in all areas of life, and the type of self-discipline in matters of physical wellness that's required to put any amount of time or effort into eating is certainly not one of my strengths. So instead of setting myself up for failure by believing that I "should" be good at something that I am just not inclined to be good at, I find other solutions that work just as well. And as evidenced by my healing progress so far, taking these supplements is working quite well. Sure, it's more expensive than just eating healthy, but it's definitely worth it for me. I can see how having to research and learn about and spend money on and remembering to take nutritional supplements throughout the day could be a lot more stressful for some people than just eating healthy foods, particularly if they have a list and recipes to guide them in their choices. We should all do whatever gives us the best results and is most conducive to our lifestyles, temperaments, and strengths and weaknesses. I don't use nutritional supplementation as an excuse to eat all kinds of unhealthy stuff whenever I feel like it, but I don't worry about it either. Experience has shown me that this is the best route for me personally.
    (note my diplomatic tone as I show that I respect their ideas and values while explaining my perspective on the matter)
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    My parents both have Si PoLRs and they really don't talk about health issues any more than they have to. My mom recently had triple bypass surgery and I didn't learn there were any problems till like the day before or something. And my dad has numerous health problems, and everyone knows about them but it's this weird "elephant in the living room" thing that we're not supposed to talk about or something.

    I wrote somewhere recently, probably in something that's been deleted, that when I was a kid, when my brother or sister or I got sick, we always went to my INFj grandma's house. Every single time. The flu, pnemonia, didn't matter what we were sick with, we weren't home. It didn't seem odd to me at the time that my mom and dad never took care of us when we were sick but I now think maybe that's an Si PoLR thing.

    Has anyone here ever seen Angles in America? There's this guy who has AIDS and is dying. His partner can't handle being around the disease and the sickness and hospitals and leaves him specifically because of that. I saw that and thought, "That guy is an ENTj."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    Has anyone here ever seen Angles in America? There's this guy who has AIDS and is dying. His partner can't handle being around the disease and the sickness and hospitals and leaves him specifically because of that. I saw that and thought, "That guy is an ENTj."
    The only time I felt that my comments made my "ENTj supervisor" shrink into himself was when I reminded him, and those around him, of the day his daughter was born. I poked and prodded in a jokey way (the way he does with me) about him almost fainting in the delivery room and I imitated his appearance/gestures. He was silent. I did it again, hoping the second time would get a reaction out of him, but he immediately changed the conversation back to ---> the bond me and his daughter have developed. I have never felt that kind of redirection from him. He's always joking and playing around, making ME blush, so I gave him a taste of his own medicine and he did not take it. I was like, oops.

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    i used to get really inexplicably pissed at my mom for telling me about everyone's (especially people i am close to) health problems, in detail, who died this week, etc.

    i'm a little (a little?) better at that now. i don't know if this has to do with weak or what. i used to get SO mad at her for doing this though. i would get mad because there was too much death around me. it didn't even seem worth it to me to sit around and talk about death all day.

    and my dad did something similar to what maze did with her ENTj supervisor. he made me watch him delivery a baby when i was a lot younger, then sort of joked about how i was turning white the whole time.


    on the other hand i have always been interested in my health? like vitamins and vegetarianism and working out and things like this.



    my dad tends to try to protect me from stuff? like if he's unhealthy or something he'll be telling my mom not to tell me because he knows i will sit around and flip out about it, go completely bonkers. ):

    so in short i ignore my own health a lot and am inconsistent with it but i completely flip out if any of those near and dear to me are sick.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    My parents both have Si PoLRs and they really don't talk about health issues any more than they have to. My mom recently had triple bypass surgery and I didn't learn there were any problems till like the day before or something. And my dad has numerous health problems, and everyone knows about them but it's this weird "elephant in the living room" thing that we're not supposed to talk about or something.

    I wrote somewhere recently, probably in something that's been deleted, that when I was a kid, when my brother or sister or I got sick, we always went to my INFj grandma's house. Every single time. The flu, pnemonia, didn't matter what we were sick with, we weren't home. It didn't seem odd to me at the time that my mom and dad never took care of us when we were sick but I now think maybe that's an Si PoLR thing.

    Has anyone here ever seen Angles in America? There's this guy who has AIDS and is dying. His partner can't handle being around the disease and the sickness and hospitals and leaves him specifically because of that. I saw that and thought, "That guy is an ENTj."
    hmmm... if that's what a Si PoLR is, I don't have one

    Though I think that could be a manifestation of a Si PoLR, I don't think all ENxjs are like that. When it comes to talking about matters involving my health, I tend to be paranoid about things that don't matter (with myself or my family) but don't really like to talk about actual, current concerns. And if I do, I tend to downplay them or try to make them into a joke. I don't listen to warnings involving health concerns from people around me.

    I guess I'm just really bad at being able to tell how important/bad something is. For example, I worked through mono without knowing it. I knew I didn't feel good, but I just took some cold meds and went on with it. I worked for a couple weeks with whooping cough too before I realized that there was actually something pretty bad wrong with me. So... I've had mono, strep, and whooping cough without even knowing it.

    One could say that the fact that I'm even talking about it at all is evidence against a Si PoLR. *shrugs* I don't believe such is the case.
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    Quote Originally Posted by maze
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    Has anyone here ever seen Angles in America? There's this guy who has AIDS and is dying. His partner can't handle being around the disease and the sickness and hospitals and leaves him specifically because of that. I saw that and thought, "That guy is an ENTj."
    The only time I felt that my comments made my "ENTj supervisor" shrink into himself was when I reminded him, and those around him, of the day his daughter was born. I poked and prodded in a jokey way (the way he does with me) about him almost fainting in the delivery room and I imitated his appearance/gestures. He was silent. I did it again, hoping the second time would get a reaction out of him, but he immediately changed the conversation back to ---> the bond me and his daughter have developed. I have never felt that kind of redirection from him. He's always joking and playing around, making ME blush, so I gave him a taste of his own medicine and he did not take it. I was like, oops.
    Actually, the person I know who is the worst about that kind of thing is an INTj. You can't even joke around about belching or farting in front of him without him feeling unpleasant. After that, an INTp.
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    My husband is an ISTp and was a bit freaked out and queasy when our daughter was born, and still tries to avoid talking about it or anything. LOL
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    I'm really attentive about my health and conditioning. I try to eat well unless I'm out, exercise, so and so. The reason? Makes me feel better; not "with myself", just healthier. I also from time to time experiment with supplements, but the only two that have given me any kind of different feel is Omega 3 fatty acids, and gingko biloba. I really think that supplements are not type related.
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    yeah i agree FDG, everyone's a supplement junkie/pillpopper in the united states.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    My husband is an ISTp and was a bit freaked out and queasy when our daughter was born, and still tries to avoid talking about it or anything. LOL
    ah!


    i was going to ask about this. like with ISTps, they have dominant but i read that they are kind of squeamish sometimes? i read that they are good at noting another person's pain/discomfort, so watching you give birth was like, "ouch, wife in physical pain!" ):

    or what?

    i wonder how this works in ISTps.
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    I'm not exactly what's up with it, he doesn't even like to talk about it really. I think me being in pain was part of it. And we'd taken these natural childbirth classes so I didn't use any pain medication, and our daughter was pretty big. So I imagine it was freaky for him. I think it was in a way harder on him than on me. I think he felt kind of helpless. I remember him saying a few days later that there wasn't really anything he could do but give me ice chips.

    Also, the reality of the situation -there's a BABY we're going to take home who will be completely reliant on us! That might have been freaky too.
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    Peter's been handling me really well with all of this. I'm the type of person who generally doesn't follow doctor's orders at all and doesn't give myself enough time to recover from illnesses/surgery/childbirth/whatnot and ends up causing problems for myself as a result. He's been strict with me... like if he sees me about to do something that I shouldn't (I have a 5 lbs weight restriction and am not supposed to do a lot of reaching), he yells at me. He also orders me to do things, such as telling me to go lay down and rest (as opposed to asking me if I feel like resting) or to eat something. If I tell him I need something, he's more likely to be like, "Yeah, yeah, I'll get it when I feel like it" than "Of course, is there anything else I can get you?" and we may even exchange some sarcastic banter (rough teasing, but in a <3 way, if that makes sense). He's much more likely to cite doctors orders and act irritated if I don't comply than he is to talk about what's good for me. He jokes around about all of this a lot, too, such as teasing me about stuff that I can't do right now or joking that I have zombie boobs. An onlooker might think he's being mean, unsympathetic, inattentive (given the circumstances), and bossy, but he's pretty much just treating me with Se rather than Si, because he knows that that's exactly what I need. Si concerns with this type of thing just irritate me and make me feel anxious and restless, but his tough, no babying approach seems to be working quite well. It's making this recovery stage bearable for me, and I seem to be healing well.

    lol As long as we're already talking about all of this... Today I went to my first post op appointment, and when the nurse saw my tits, she was like, "How many weeks out are you now?" and I told her that the surgery was on Friday, and she got this look of astonishment on her face and said that I look great. We must be doing something right!
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    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    yeah i agree FDG, everyone's a supplement junkie/pillpopper in the united states.
    I see them sorta like a cheat code in a video game.

    Aside from all this stuff that's going on right now, I generally intend to take several different supplements every day, but I usually forget to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    yeah i agree FDG, everyone's a supplement junkie/pillpopper in the united states.
    I see them sorta like a cheat code in a video game.
    I would say so in regard to steroids, but hardly in regard to oil/vitamines/gingko/caffeine/etc
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    it's all the same to me (but yeah, I guess more so with stimulants)
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    lmao

    go back to the thread and see the response I got
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    help!!!

    How can I possibly answer this lady's post??? http://www.breasthealthonline.org/cg....pl?tid=119345 I've been attempting to write a response, but it's not really working. It appears that she just simply does not get it. Perhaps the wise thing for me to do would be to just not respond... but for some reason I feel compelled to explain it so that she does understand. ARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH
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    I think is more about being one with your environment and achieving harmony with the environment as opposed to being healthy. Health sometimes can be a way to do this, but health I don't think is the ultimate definition. is more about doing things to complement your environment as opposed to changing the environment and being disharmonious with it which would be more

    Si is like playing the perfect song to complement the mood and environment at hand, and Se is like playing a song that would totally go against and change the mood and the environment.

    Say you're at a romantic dinner with your special someone at a nice restaurant, something would be ordering a nice bottle of wine, a fancy dinner having the restaurant play romantic music like a love ballad or something.

    Something to do would be to have fast food delivered to the restaurant and have them blast loud rock music in the midst of you being nicely dressed and served by a waiter in a tuxedo, and being in a setting that would typically call for soft, sweet music and upscale food.

    Also could be like blasting rock music on C-Span during a congressional hearing instead of the classical music they put on.

    So ultimately an ENTj and an ENFjs PoLR really is their inability to go with the flow, take it all in, and achieve harmony with their environment, whatever the environment may be.

    So be careful when referring to Si as health, because there are plenty of non-Si types or non-Si valuing types that are healthy and like being healthy.

    Si: types value complementing their environment, whether physical, psychological, or whatever. EDIT: Se values changing the environment in a somewhat discordant way. Se types may get bored or wouldn't know what to make of a harmonious environment, and Si types wouldn't know what to make of a changing environment, almost like they wouldn't be able to get their footing on things. :

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    This is a very insightful post. I do think that health and feeling good physically are part of Si as well though.
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    Now tell me how to answer that lady!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    it's all the same to me (but yeah, I guess more so with stimulants)
    Why do you persist in ignorance? If I say it's not the same, that's because I know it isn't, otherwise I wouldn't say it.
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    Heh not sure. I hardly know anything about the specifics of nutrition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    it's all the same to me (but yeah, I guess more so with stimulants)
    Why do you persist in ignorance? If I say it's not the same, that's because I know it isn't, otherwise I wouldn't say it.
    dude... I said to me. This is obviously a subjective matter. There's no reason to get hostile.
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    If I may add something on Se and Si, (I think I'll try to write up a thread that outlines how Ne and Si interact and how their views and values are very different from Se and Ni), I think I may know where some of the stereotypes may come from.

    Se is frequently connected with aggression, which is not necessarily true. Aggression within a certain context can be seen as Se though. For example if there is a group of Alphas sitting around enjoying each other's company and keeping a really light atmosphere and not criticizing each other, and then an Se type challenges one of the Alphas and tries to bring out a flaw in something about one of the Alphas, and changes the whole mood of the environment to one of attack and defense, then that is an example of Se. But here the aggression is used to disrupt the harmonious flow to what was going on and change the environment from one of casual light, non threatening conversation to one where each party will be either on the attack or on the defense.

    Si is frequently connected with health because being healthy in some contexts can be like being in harmony with your body and thus your environment, so again there in certain contexts Si can relate to health, but health is not the definition of Si itself.

    I think ultimately it could really help with the vibe people pick up when VIing people when looking for Se or Si differences. One will value changing the environment to get to where they'd like, the other will value complementing the environment to enhance it. When VIing people, try to think which of the two the person seems to value in the vibe they give off.

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    Se does tend to stand out a lot in people I meet irl. Ne sorta does, but I can mistake other things for Ne.
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    Does my response sound bitchy?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Does my response sound bitchy?
    I don't think so

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    lol, okay thanks
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    Also keep in mind that Ne values Si and vice versa, and Ni values Se, so that when a person values one, they value the other and act accordingly.

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