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Thread: VI and ENTp subtypes (Restored)

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    Default VI and ENTp subtypes (Restored)

    This is a post I had saved on my computer before the threads were deleted

    I was talking a while back with Sarah about subtypes and ENTps and comparing Qwerty and myself. She said my vibe seems to be more "active" and my statements appear more active while Qwerty's seem more chilled-out. She envisioned Qwerty as having a faraway look in his eyes. She said the way I come across is similar to the way Nicholas Cage comes across, who is an ENTp-T. When I thought about him it just clicked and seems to make sense. I looked at some of my pictures and it seems to match his vibe. Then it made me think of some other ENTps I would consider T subs and they have the same vibe.

    Take a look at the similarity in vibe of each subtype.

    ENTp T subs:

    Here's Nicholas Cage:





    Michael McDonald from MadTV:






    Jon Stewart:




    Albert Einstein:





    Wheras here are some ENTp-Ns:

    Here are some people Sarah typed as ENTp-N:


    Bill Murray:
    Charlie Sheen:



    And here’s some I think are ENTp-N:

    Norm MacDonald:



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    Most people you determined as N subtypes seem to be sensory and ethical to me rather than intuitive and logical. E.g. I believe that Charlie Sheen is an ESFP.

    I also have doubts about some personalities you determined as T subtype. Why do you believe that Nick Cage is an ENTP? For me, he is a good example of an ethical type.
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    T-subtype:

    Teemu Selanne

    <--- Lytov, notice the facial structure which is very alike to Nicholas' Cage one

    Enrique Iglesias



    Natalie Imbruglia (N subtype)



    Christian Bale (Have no clue on subtype)

    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    what about entp females? it would be good to have some vi for them too. not that there are that many of us....

    ILE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze8
    what about entp females? it would be good to have some vi for them too. not that there are that many of us....
    I posted some pictures of ENTp females before The Big Deletion. I'm not sure of their subtype, but I am 100 % sure that the last two persons are ENTps, and I'm 99 % certain that the first one is also an ENTp (she has perhaps also the most typical ENTp V.I. look of those three). Anyway, here they are again:

    1.




    2.


    3.



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    Despite a thread that got deleted where some tried to argue her strong Fi (sigh), I think Ayn Rand is ENTp, and Rick has her listed that way so I'm going with it.





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    No way she's an ENTp, or a perceiver for that matter. Ayn Rand was either ISTj or ENTj, I'm pretty sure about it. Her philosophy, in spite of referring to it, is equivalent to counter-anarchism.

    She doesn't have a strong Fi either. She's a total bitch, and all her followers should be erased (other than being stupid by definition).
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    Despite what has apparently become popular belief (thanks, Nicky ), I never said ANYTHING about Rand having STRONG Fi; I simply claimed that there was no basis on which to assume that she had weak Fi; you must, for all your powers of observation, be able to grasp the difference between the two.

    That said, I think it is clear that Rand values Se. She depicts characters that are ruthless in gaining their power, not hesitating to step on anyone's head to get to the top. This is perfect stereotypical unhealthy/greedy behavior.

    Now, remember, the willingness of these characters to step on the heads of others and disregard their relationships with other people does NOT say anything about their capabilities regarding, or value for, the ability to understand those relationtionships and, therefore, does not indicate weak or undervalued in any way . This is NOT a matter of technicality or me being picky about what correlates with the theory; types that value Fi are just as likely to use or abuse those they are in relationships with as Fe types are; the precipitating factor is sociopathy, greed, or alterior motivation, NOT weak Fi.

    There are two other factors that I would examine. Rand's characters take a bit of a "go it alone" approach; they don't keep many people close to them for too long or engage in any kind of "team" situations; this leads me to think Gamma>Beta, because Betas are very much "team players," like the stereotypical come-from-behind, underdog sports team, or the group of teenagers that bands together to ovethrow adult authoritarianism (think Heavyweights, Miracle, Mighty Ducks, etc.). Coming from this end, I would think LIE is more likely.

    However, we should also take into account Rand's tendency towards extreme idealism and broad-based worldviews which could indicate a Ti preference. If we give this more weight, I would say LSI is more likely.

    All things considered, including VI, I would tend to think LIE.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    I have seen Selanne and Schyman in real life.
    Selanne had an imposing presence - Schyman got on my nerves.
    I am not sure about their types though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilligan
    That said, I think it is clear that Rand values Se. She depicts characters that are ruthless in gaining their power, not hesitating to step on anyone's head to get to the top. This is perfect stereotypical unhealthy/greedy behavior.

    There are two other factors that I would examine. Rand's characters take a bit of a "go it alone" approach; they don't keep many people close to them for too long or engage in any kind of "team" situations; this leads me to think Gamma>Beta, because Betas are very much "team players," like the stereotypical come-from-behind, underdog sports team, or the group of teenagers that bands together to ovethrow adult authoritarianism (think Heavyweights, Miracle, Mighty Ducks, etc.). Coming from this end, I would think LIE is more likely.

    However, we should also take into account Rand's tendency towards extreme idealism and broad-based worldviews which could indicate a Ti preference. If we give this more weight, I would say LSI is more likely.

    All things considered, including VI, I would tend to think LIE.
    I think this is a good summary of the situation. I agree with the observation that there are indications of a Ti preference, and I also think that her strong individualism might be interpreted as coming from an introverted type, but overall I think that the arguments for LIE are stronger. And at least to me, her worldview and way or arguing are so strongly NT that I really can't see her as an LSI. So, LIE is the most likely type in my opinion.

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    As far as some females, I'm considering

    ENTp-T:

    Mo Collins from MadTV:






    and Possibly Ann Coulter - I know some have said ENTj but I'm not sure:





    As far as ENTp-N females, I'm still thinking about it.

    What makes me think the ENTps I typed are what they are is not necessarily the facial shape, structure, etc. but the whole psychological vibe and energy they give off, kinda like looking into their soul.

    ENTp Ts tend to give off a more active and "detached ironic amusement" look, while ENTp Ns give off a more Ne-ish distant gaze and its like "Look at how charming I am" look, almost giving off a more Fe-ish look.

    I sorta get that look with Charlie Sheen, I'm still not sure on him though. He just came to mind because me and Sarah were discussing him. Dimitri what makes you think he's ethical?

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    FDG I agree that Teemu Selanne is T subtype, and think that Christian Bale could be N sub. Selanne also has that detached amused look.

    But yeah I think the vibe is an important distinction to look for. With T subs their F side will be much more hidden and have to be pulled out by say an ISFp-F sub. This is why they have that more detached amused look, and sometimes the "You gotta be kidding me" look, and sometimes the "That's pretty funny" (amused) look.

    N subs as Slava has mentioned used their Ne more actively. Thus they appear more distant and their F-side seems more on the surface and visible, thus the "look at how charming I am" look, which can come off as almost being an ethical type.

    Here's another one of Christian Bale who I think gives off that N-sub vibe:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve
    With T subs their F side will be much more hidden and have to be pulled out by say an ISFp-F sub. This is why they have that more detached amused look, and sometimes the "You gotta be kidding me" look, and sometimes the "That's pretty funny" (amused) look.

    N subs as Slava has mentioned used their Ne more actively. Thus they appear more distant and their F-side seems more on the surface and visible
    So the ISFp-Fe are the expressive ones while the ISFp-Si are those who seem to only like to take walks with their grandmas?

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    Ok I'll give you an example of the different ISFp-Subs

    I think Claire Forlani is ISFp-S:





    I gotta think of some ISFp-F females.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve


    Ok I'll give you an example of the different ISFp-Subs

    I think Claire Forlani is ISFp-S:





    I gotta think of some ISFp-F females.
    Linsday Lohan, I think she has been categorized as such in another thread:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilligan
    That said, I think it is clear that Rand values Se. She depicts characters that are ruthless in gaining their power, not hesitating to step on anyone's head to get to the top. This is perfect stereotypical unhealthy/greedy behavior.

    There are two other factors that I would examine. Rand's characters take a bit of a "go it alone" approach; they don't keep many people close to them for too long or engage in any kind of "team" situations; this leads me to think Gamma>Beta, because Betas are very much "team players," like the stereotypical come-from-behind, underdog sports team, or the group of teenagers that bands together to ovethrow adult authoritarianism (think Heavyweights, Miracle, Mighty Ducks, etc.). Coming from this end, I would think LIE is more likely.

    However, we should also take into account Rand's tendency towards extreme idealism and broad-based worldviews which could indicate a Ti preference. If we give this more weight, I would say LSI is more likely.

    All things considered, including VI, I would tend to think LIE.
    I think this is a good summary of the situation. I agree with the observation that there are indications of a Ti preference, and I also think that her strong individualism might be interpreted as coming from an introverted type, but overall I think that the arguments for LIE are stronger. And at least to me, her worldview and way or arguing are so strongly NT that I really can't see her as an LSI. So, LIE is the most likely type in my opinion.
    Though at times it does seem that what many philosophers (and philosopher wannabes like Rand) actually advocate in their workings sound closer to the behaviors of their duals rather than that of themselves. They are advocating what they need in their lives.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilligan
    That said, I think it is clear that Rand values Se. She depicts characters that are ruthless in gaining their power, not hesitating to step on anyone's head to get to the top. This is perfect stereotypical unhealthy/greedy behavior.

    There are two other factors that I would examine. Rand's characters take a bit of a "go it alone" approach; they don't keep many people close to them for too long or engage in any kind of "team" situations; this leads me to think Gamma>Beta, because Betas are very much "team players," like the stereotypical come-from-behind, underdog sports team, or the group of teenagers that bands together to ovethrow adult authoritarianism (think Heavyweights, Miracle, Mighty Ducks, etc.). Coming from this end, I would think LIE is more likely.

    However, we should also take into account Rand's tendency towards extreme idealism and broad-based worldviews which could indicate a Ti preference. If we give this more weight, I would say LSI is more likely.

    All things considered, including VI, I would tend to think LIE.
    I think this is a good summary of the situation. I agree with the observation that there are indications of a Ti preference, and I also think that her strong individualism might be interpreted as coming from an introverted type, but overall I think that the arguments for LIE are stronger. And at least to me, her worldview and way or arguing are so strongly NT that I really can't see her as an LSI. So, LIE is the most likely type in my opinion.
    Though at times it does seem that what many philosophers (and philosopher wannabes like Rand) actually advocate in their workings sound closer to the behaviors of their duals rather than that of themselves. They are advocating what they need in their lives.
    So Epicure was ENTp?
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    So Epicure was ENTp?
    Probably not. As I said "at times it does seem," so not always.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    So Epicure was ENTp?
    Probably not. As I said "at times it does seem," so not always.
    Strange, I've actually always thought he was.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    So Epicure was ENTp?
    Probably not. As I said "at times it does seem," so not always.
    Strange, I've actually always thought he was.
    So change the "probably not" to a "maybe not". But in the case of Any Rand, if what she is advocating is considered a ENTj view, looking at the ISFj as a possibility that should be entertained.
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    Rand's characters take a bit of a "go it alone" approach; they don't keep many people close to them for too long or engage in any kind of "team" situations
    That is precisely what made me feel she had weak . I have no idea why you're so pig-headed about this. Or why you AGAIN try to present your OPINION as fact. I never said it was about meaness or using abuse or anything like that - that was your ASSUMPTION of why I felt she had weak Fi. It's because of the themes of her books - independence, going it alone, etc. If I'm reading a book by an Fi type, I'd expect to read about people's interdependence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    So Epicure was ENTp?
    Probably not. As I said "at times it does seem," so not always.
    Strange, I've actually always thought he was.
    So change the "probably not" to a "maybe not". But in the case of Any Rand, if what she is advocating is considered a ENTj view, looking at the ISFj as a possibility that should be entertained.
    I definitely agree, but I also think that I would not be able to support it. If you can, you could try to make a little case. I can see the creative in the way she was able to hold in line everything in her life, for example.
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    But that is working from the assumption that we she is advocating an "ENTj philosophy." It may be possible for her to be an ENFj arguing for an ISTj sort of view. I just know that most people who I have seen try and type her, do so with the intention of trying to keep her out of their type and quadra. So maybe if you could find a type that will usually like Ayn Rand, we may have a better starting point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    But that is working from the assumption that we she is advocating an "ENTj philosophy."
    Yes, I assumed your advice.

    It may be possible for her to be an ENFj arguing for an ISTj sort of view. I just know that most people who I have seen try and type her, do so with the intention of trying to keep her out of their type and quadra. So maybe if you could find a type that will usually like Ayn Rand, we may have a better starting point.
    I've generally found that ISTjs tend to like Ayn Rand. They say that it's "a practical philosophy" that does not dwelve too much in irrilevant issues. I am here to be disproved, though.
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    FDG, Linsay Lohan could infact be ISFp-F. Here's some pictures that may be indicative of that





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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    I just know that most people who I have seen try and type her, do so with the intention of trying to keep her out of their type and quadra. So maybe if you could find a type that will usually like Ayn Rand, we may have a better starting point.
    I know a real life ENTj who has said that he could have written her books himself. And even though I think that her philosophy -- "objectivism" -- is based on some false assumptions, I like her individualism, and I agree with many aspects of her political views, as I consider myself to be some sort of libertarian myself. In general I think that too much altruism is worse than too much egoism. I am also similar to her in that I believe in the existence of objective truths and objective quality, but those beliefs are not based on Rand's kind of "objectivism". I don't identify with her personality and temperament, which is think is very much Tj.

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    I'm not sure if I agree with some of the typings in this thread, and the correlations picked up between V.I. and subtype seem inconsistent in some places...but it seems like it has great potential for establishing a 'canon' of recognised V.I. typings etc...so bump...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve
    :lol:

    Ok I'll give you an example of the different ISFp-Subs

    I think Claire Forlani is ISFp-S:





    I gotta think of some ISFp-F females.
    ENTp-Ti here and she's like the hottest girl ever..... and I never say that about actresses. So that definitely means she's probably ISFp (my guess) or INFj cus she just hits me right haha. I think Bale is probably a Ti subtype too, and I have some strong doubts about lindsey lohan as being a ISFp. I think ESFp is much more likely. I think she's all peace for awhile, but if you pushed her a little you'd see the Se claws come out.

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    Here are some other ISFp-Fe's I've recently come across:

    Edie Brickell:






    Janet Jackson:



    Here are two male ISFp-Fe.

    Thomas Ian Nicholas:



    Boney James, (Saxophonist):



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    i don't know anything about boney james, but i sincerely hope the next album he releases is entitled "got hair for days"
    entp-ti 6w7

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    What about Kirsten Dunst?
    “I think, therefore I'll think" - Ayn Rand (ESTp, UR GUARDIAN ANGEL)

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    Quote Originally Posted by raisonpure
    What about Kirsten Dunst?
    Kirsten I would say is an ENFp.

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    p.s. why can't I quote anything? It never shows up.....

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    Jon Heder (the guy who acted as Napolean Dynamite), ENTp subtype

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzZp3pN3TD4[/youtube]

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    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    what about entp females? it would be good to have some vi for them too. not that there are that many of us....
    marilyn vos savant (the most intelligent person on the world, guiness book) is an ENTP by mbti test.

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    edit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suomea
    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    Jon Heder (the guy who acted as Napolean Dynamite), ENTp subtype

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzZp3pN3TD4[/youtube]
    Incredibly good example...... I think he should be the poster boy for ENTp- Ne
    He even reminds me of Gilly. I remember Discojoe using Gilly's pic as his avatar once and I mistook him as Heder.

  38. #38

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    I thought Jon Heder is INFp.

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