ENFp-IEE Subtypes

[Creepy-male]

What would a Te explanation be?

Anyway, you're basically on the money, jewels. But it's not quite as elegant or consistent as that. For example, I understand Ne-ILEs are meant to be the more introverted of the two, but I've also heard it argued that the Ti subtype is.....

Bluh. I think the two-subtypes system (that's what accepting/producing refers to, as the subtypes are the "accepting" (base function) and "producing" (creative function) subtypes) is just a confused and inconsistent mess. That said, Meged and Ovcharov are Deltas aren't they? You could probably work it just looking strictly at their descriptions and fitting yourself to whichever has the lesser amount of flat contradictions of reality

[Lobo]

Hi Kim, just out of curiosity, why do you want to know your "subtype"? Based on who's/what theory?

[Kim]

Lobo, for me the question came up again because I was thinking about IEE-SEE relationships. My two best friends are Fi-SEE and my partner is Se-SEE. With them, I can clearly see how they are all SEEs with different subtypes. It just makes sense. With IEEs, I cannot see it as clearly (but then I am not close friends with an IEE ) And I have been wondering why people have always pegged me as Fi-IEE and how I might come across differently online than I am in real life.

But I wasn't thinking on a specific theory, just bits and pieces I have read around here in the past...

[Lobo]

Lobo, for me the question came up again because I was thinking about IEE-SEE relationships. My two best friends are Fi-SEE and my partner is Se-SEE. With them, I can clearly see how they are all SEEs with different subtypes. It just makes sense. With IEEs, I cannot see it as clearly (but then I am not close friends with an IEE ) And I have been wondering why people have always pegged me as Fi-IEE and how I might come across differently online than I am in real life.

But I wasn't thinking on a specific theory, just bits and pieces I have read around here in the past...

Well, I do notice how the IEEs here are different, but wouldn't know how to classify them as Fi or Ne "subtypes." Right off the top of my head I'd place Slacker and Galen in the same group. In another group, I'd place somavision, perhaps as "Ne sub." I've noticed before how even within the same type there are differences, but could also be enneagram-related.

[Beautiful sky]

But deltas aren't really that, are they?

No. I was just trying to have some fun. out quadra's so serious (dichotomies) that we can't even joke and have fun

[dattebayo]

the way i see it it's a question of mood. I can see myself in both camps depending on circumstances

that said my overall mood is prolly Ne sub heh

[Suz]

In the meantime, I sometimes feel like an odd IEE because I do not like psychological closeness all that much unless it is with a significant other.

While I appreciate that people feel that they can open up with me, I don't always like it. I think there is a reason why I chose to be a university professor rather than a therapist: I can focus on people's potential and feel like I can change their lives for the better without having to crawl too deeply into their psyche. Sometimes students come to me and are in crisis and I listen to them and I show them that I care, but I am fairly quick to steer the conversation back to what can be done about the situation: let's brainstorm option, come up with the best-possible plan, etc.

That being said, I do care deeply about people's well-being, but my focus is always on finding a solution. Between lending a shoulder to cry on and giving advice, I would always chose the latter (as a personal preference). I love that I can take research time-outs and just indulge in Ne-matters.

For what it's worth, on student evaluations I consistently get the following descriptors: enthusiastic, nice, knowledgeable, scattered, goes off on tangents.

That's not odd. I'm the same way. With a significant other, and select few close friends.

btw, what do u teach??

[Suz]

I don't believe in subtypes, but I like people in the following categories:

mushy
super-mushy
mooochy
touchy-feely
ohhh yes baby!

yummy, yummy, yummy....

No. I was just trying to have some fun. out quadra's so serious (dichotomies) that we can't even joke and have fun

MERRY.

[UDP]

IEEs Fi seem more like EIIs I think.... uh, they are sort of mroe rational and seem more judgmental about certain aspects of Fi.

IEE Ne seem more alpha and sort of wander-y

[dattebayo]

That's not odd. I'm the same way. With a significant other, and select few close friends.

btw, what do u teach??

heh I'm the same as you guys. Socionics, it works

sometimes I'm afraid to come too close to other people (which sometimes happens anyways), because I'm afraid I wont be able "follow up" so to speak and give them the time and concern the closeness implies

[Clumsy]

Which subtype of IEE is more warm, friendly and in general goofy? I know an IEE that is very colorful, vibrant, silly and generally, not taken as seriously. She constantly names inanimate objects and has a great sense of humor.

Is that the Ne subtype? Or the Fi subtype?

The other IEE I know is very quiet, subdued, mysterious. She speaks calmly and slowly and is very good at reading people. She is much more serious.

I know they're both typed correctly. Which one is which?

[Aiss]

I had something similar happen to me. Initially I went with Te sub, but others said Ni, except for maybe one or two people. But then I agreed with them as I've observed different subtypes. Nearly every ILI whose type I'd question types as Te sub, so I guess differences are there.

I think part of the problem might be that the idea of accepting/producing subtypes is actually based on functions, not elements. And people often think about how Ni/Te or Ne/Fi someone is, instead of how distinguished their base and creative functions are. So producing subtype would be more in-your-face with their creative, and as it is a producing function, probably viewed as proactive compared to an accepting subtype. Their PoLR would usually be more obvious, too - if that's what stands out to you about the person's type, chances are they are producing subtype. In contrast to that, accepting subtype relies more on their base, making less use of creative, and therefore making less of an effect - it's perceived as more passive. Those work for extraverts, not just introverts - that's what I meant by underlining it's about functions - although justifying someone's typing by it is still a bad idea. ILE subtypes mentioned earlier in this thread are a good example, Ne being seen more as playing around with ideas while Ti seem to be rather focused on forwarding them.

[Slacker]

Everyone says I seem like an Fi subtype, but by that I'd be an Ne subtype. I think the idea of subtypes is problematic. There are differences between various people of a type, but I don't know if attempting to further categorize people helps anything. And some people take it too far and think, for instance, if you are an Fi subtype you have strong Se and weaker Ne (which I have read here, though not recently) and that kind of talking is just plain silly. All IEEs have Ne as their base function, and none have Se in their ego block.

[Park]

Everyone says I seem like an Fi subtype, but by that I'd be an Ne subtype. I think the idea of subtypes is problematic. There are differences between various people of a type, but I don't know if attempting to further categorize people helps anything. And some people take it too far and think, for instance, if you are an Fi subtype you have strong Se and weaker Ne (which I have read here, though not recently) and that kind of talking is just plain silly. All IEEs have Ne as their base function, and none have Se in their ego block.

I approve of this message.

[tcaudilllg]

Seems like accepting subtype ENFPs are more scatterbrained, and producing subtypes more... sexual? Goal oriented?

Or is it the other way around? Honestly ENFPs are so difficult to understand that I haven't even thought about their subtypes.

[Galen]

I am king of the Fi subtypes. No questions please.



hey but seriously

In response to OP, I've observed subtypes manifesting as a conscious valuing or bias of one ego IE over the other. So for both ENFp subtypes Ne and Fi would still be 'accepting' and 'creating' (assuming that dichotomy even exists) respectively, but for Ne subtypes there would be a more conscious slant towards Ne information processing and Fi subs would have a greater inclination towards Fi stuffs. The temperaments are still the same roughly, although the Fi sub is bound to come off as less non-sequiter than extroverted subtypes are want to be. I guess you could compare the likes of Dana Carvey (Ne-ENFp) to Michael J. Fox (Fi-ENFp) to see what I'm talking about.

[Clumsy]

I know an IEE that is very colorful, vibrant, silly and generally, not taken as seriously. She constantly names inanimate objects and has a great sense of humor.

Ne
___

Fi

The other IEE I know is very quiet, subdued, mysterious. She speaks calmly and slowly and is very good at reading people. She is much more serious.

Thank you

[UDP]

lame simplification


"more delta" - Fi

"more alpha" - Ne

[Suz]

lame simplification


"more delta" - Fi

I think i see what you're getting at, but you mean, "more gamma"?

cause both would be delta, with slight leanings towards alpha vs gamma, from what i've gathered.

[Timeless]

IEE/ENFp subtypes:

CILi-subtype:
Rick-subtype:
Galen-subtype:
Ssmall-subtype:
Slacker-subtype:

[Galen]

IEE/ENFp subtypes:

CILi-subtype:
Rick-subtype:
Galen-subtype:
Ssmall-subtype:
Slacker-subtype:

this sounds about right to me


btw <3

[Suz]

IEE/ENFp subtypes:

CILi-subtype:
Rick-subtype:
Galen-subtype:
Ssmall-subtype:
Slacker-subtype:

which one am i??

[Minde]

lame simplification


"more delta" - Fi

I think i see what you're getting at, but you mean, "more gamma"?

cause both would be delta, with slight leanings towards alpha vs gamma, from what i've gathered.

Yes, I agree, WA.

Smilingeyes' "clock-face" graphs illustrate it well, imo, especially on the individual temperament ones. (http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...0&postcount=16)

[EyeSeeCold]

I think i see what you're getting at, but you mean, "more gamma"?

cause both would be delta, with slight leanings towards alpha vs gamma, from what i've gathered.

Yes, I agree, WA.

Smilingeyes' "clock-face" graphs illustrate it well, imo, especially on the individual temperament ones. (http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...0&postcount=16)

Hey, what do you think of this?

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...33&postcount=9

[Suz]

I think i see what you're getting at, but you mean, "more gamma"?

cause both would be delta, with slight leanings towards alpha vs gamma, from what i've gathered.

Yes, I agree, WA.

Smilingeyes' "clock-face" graphs illustrate it well, imo, especially on the individual temperament ones. (http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...0&postcount=16)

oooooh! the clock face diagrams sort of went over my head. Not too sure what all the terms are referring to...

[UDP]

right, more towards gamma is what I meant.

[UDP]

Yes, I agree, WA.

Smilingeyes' "clock-face" graphs illustrate it well, imo, especially on the individual temperament ones. (http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...0&postcount=16)

Hey, what do you think of this?

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...33&postcount=9

I guess. It's not really anything new, just a different way of explaining it or putting it out there.

[applejacks]

Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but I'm enjoying this discussion and would like to see it continue, as it's all still a bit muddy.

Of the two descriptions in the OP, there are aspects in both which I can relate, however Fi seems more like me.

Also, this whole discussion of dropping careers to change direction is one of the things that I most struggle with, however it's one that I never had problems with as a general contractor. Contracts changed often, as did the project I worked on. I can't do that any more where I live, so how does an IEE cope?

Is changing directions often shallow or courageous? Should it be improved upon or embraced, or just better paired with team members who are weaker in our areas of strength?

[Not A Communist Shill]

it probably depends on the extent to which your actions affect other, whether positively or negatively. It would probably be best to see if the causes of such restlessness are problematic, and finding answers if they are!

[inabox]

Hi, everyone. I'd like to know how the posters on this forum perceive both the rational and irrational subtypes of IEE. What are their respective strengths, weaknesses and differences, in your opinions and experiences?

[Chae]

Being IEE-Ne, personal experience + opinions from others. Keep in mind that's I'm SX/SP and not SP last like the standard IEE.


Strengths

- versatility
- charm
- can put things into perspective
- endless creativity
- courage to explore novelty
- broad linguistic skill
- cuteness
- ability to shape a thousand worlds (in my head)
- spontaneousness
- quirkiness
- praise
- detects bs
- helpfulness
- spirituality
- knowing how and when to surprise
- art
- enthusiasm
- creates gold out of trash
- thoughtfulness
- making a good impression
- can evoke positive feeling
- high energy
- avoidance of drama
- independence
- love
- firmness of moral codex
- sees beauty in almost everything
- talent
- spotting talent
- free-spiritedness
- imagination
- innovativeness
- goal orientation
- quickness in understanding
- breaks down harmful norms
- adaptable
- can perform a multitude of things well
- knowledge
- advanced understanding of people
- problem solving
- taste
- boldness to make the first step
- ideals



Weaknesses

- covert misanthropy
- pretense
- inaccuracy
- egocentrism
- moodiness
- doesn't know when to stop
- isolationism
- spreading chaos
- assumptions
- impatience
- an asocial streak
- insanity
- exaggerations
- greed for food, sex & money
- a tendency toward extremes
- overthinking
- condescension
- getting under people's skin
- imperiousness
- elitism
- treating others like puppets
- misplaced anger, brutality or irritability
- forgetfulness
- inadequacy
- neediness
- inconsistency
- insensitivity
- deceptiveness and betrayal
- mischief

[Eliza Thomason]

Great, Chae.

Editing to change this. We are the irrational kind of IEE. We can expect a bit more rationality from IEE-Fi.

[Chae]

Great, Chae.

Editing to change this. We are the irrational kind of IEE. We can expect a bit more rationality from IEE-Fi.

Yes!! This is a great way to handle it. Now that you remind me, the distinguishment also extends to the PoLR since the functional strengths change a little bit. The irrational subtype is stronger in logics than the rational one, leaving IEE with greater Si-seeking and IEE-Fi in more need of help with Ti and Te

[Kernel]

Today, this girl who typed ENTP in MBTI crossed my mind, I immediately thought that she was an IEE in socionics and I guess the Ne subtype.
She describes herself as withrawn, even asocial.



I hope someone watch it and give me thoughts about it.

[schwiftyrickty]

If I mistyped as ESFP for a long time is it more likely I am Fi suptype? Now that I understand socionics it is almost laughable to think I could be SEE however. It was more wishful thinking.

I want to say I'm more Ne subtype now because my number one quality is probably head-in-the-cloudsness. I'm highly impractical and scattered and find it very difficult to pay attention to what is going on in the real world around me. But I truly come alive at parties and become a real instigator and like to get all up in peoples' business.

[Raver]

From the OP's post, it's crazy how the subtype description fits me a lot and how little the subtype description fits me. Subtypes make quite a profound difference within types IMO.

[Delilah]

Why is it that the Fi subtype is considered as closer to gamma rather than closer to EII?

[Delilah]

My other question would be, what are IEE-Ne considered to be close to?

I've met a couple of IEE-Ne and they seem very fragile on outside appearance, and a bit affected in behaviour, sorta in their own world in a way yet also not very giving, quite concerned with adopting a certain look (if it's punk, or hippy, or maintstream or w/e). This type doesn't seem very close to ILE to me, yet i could be wrong, maybe they are close to ILE (as the theory predicts). Any comments?

[Bertrand]

I think it has to do with IEE being serious, thus with feeling and sensing strengthened they're more like gamma socials than alpha socials. But I think its more like a loose association. technically their judiciousness puts them in alpha, but in this case the Fi is the stronger channel so it predominates over the sensing. on balance it tips them to having more in common with gamma and fitting into that kind of social club better, but I dont think its hard and fast, more like a nudge in that direction

to extend the logic to Ne it puts them closer to alpha since Ne is the strongest channel and is shared with alpha not gamma

[Rebelondeck]

An IEE information processing system that may expend more resources on output (Fi) processes is still controlled by its input (Ne), which means anything produced by Fi can be easily ignored no matter how much time is spent doing Fi. A p-type doesn't become similar to a j-type simply because they spend equivalent resources doing the same type of process. Dominance shouldn't be linked to duration; it implies control and that doesn't change. Under scrutiny, behaviour will be found to be within the bounds of IEE. The only confusion should be between Se/Ne and or Ti/Fi because there is an overlap region between each of the two pairs so I could see an IEE appearing like another Ep in certain scenarios but under longer term observation, this would fall away. Now severe stress and lack of coping will produce a whole different kettle of fish........

a.k.a. I/O