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Thread: Description of SLE/ESTp from ENTp's point of view

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    Default Description of SLE/ESTp from ENTp's point of view

    ESTps are fun loving people, who enjoy adventerous activities and typically have a wide variety of action based hobbies.

    ESTps tend to have somewhat of a neutral looking expressions with a soft smile. But it could quickly turn into a typical characteristic pout, which often appears when their expectations have not been met or when they feel they have failed in some way.

    When an ESTp likes and wants to know someone, he or she may attempt to win the confidence and closeness of the other person by tactfully pointing out the personal strengths and weaknesses of the other person. If the ESTp is successful, a personal familiarity is laid down amongst the two of them and a relationship can develope. If the ESTp is not successful, the other person becomes distant and unavailable to him or her.

    ESTp love the element of surprise and they love to surprise other people in ways that they do not suspect. If an ESTp ever shocks or surprises you in some way, you can be definatelly sure that it was planned and intentional. ESTps have absolutly no problems taking center stage and they know what needs to be done to keep the attention of others. Although, some of them have a habit of being very loud and looking like showboaters, much like their very similar ENTp look-a-like cousins! :wink:

    ESTps love to compete and they love to win. Even in day to day matters, one of their greatest fears is to feel they have failed in the things that they must do. In this regards, whether it be for sport or for fun, they make themselves out to be very fierce opponents. But, they also make very loyal teammates and good companions in day to day matters. If you want a fun sporty companion, ESTps make excellent friends and aquaintances.

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    Although, some of them have a habit of being very loud and looking like showboaters, much like their very similar ENTp look-a-like cousins! :wink:
    Haha, that one made me crack up. It's true though, especially for the sensory subtypes.

    ESTp love the element of surprise and they love to surprise other people in ways that they do not suspect. If an ESTp ever shocks or surprises you in some way, you can be definatelly sure that it was planned and intentional.
    Indeed.
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    See, I knew you would enjoy this!

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    It was frightening how accurate this was....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Extrovert
    It was frightening how accurate this was....
    Bah, i've seen far more frightening accuracies in relation to my personality type, this is kind of generalized and makes us sound like "sporty spice"

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    Default This is a little better, but i've seen some that scare me

    extraverted-sensing-thinking-perceptive

    Outgoing
    Diplomatic
    Charming
    Witty
    Fun
    Generous
    Observing
    Socially sophisticated
    Resourceful
    Troubleshooter
    Unpredictable
    Action oriented
    Clever





    If you are "down", "out", or "on the way there", you are in need of the companionship of an ESTP. If you really want to be cheered, you won't be "down" for long. Outgoing, witty, charming and cheerful - these are the hallmarks of the ESTP. Extremely close behind are the characteristics of generosity and fun-loving. When they walk into a room, the sun begins to shine!


    Among the most socially sophisticated, ESTPs are at home in the spotlight. Their ease with people and in front of people is the envy of other extraverts and introverts alike. Their resourcefulness leads them to be able to handle most awkward situations. They truly are so charming that it is difficult to shun them, remain angry with them or to forget them. Even kids absolutely adore them!

    They are able to weather some very "heavy-duty" personal "hits"! How? Like most ESs, they "go with the flow". VERY optimistic even when the clouds are fairly dark over head, they are able to maintain a positive attitude that "things are going to get better". Most times, after having been in their company for some time very well spent, others are surprised to hear some time later that things were not going very well for the ESTP.

    Extraordinarily open-minded, they are thus enabled to befriend, accept and be truly comfortable with many who would discomfit others. To be in their presence is to know true and open acceptance - they are able to separate behaviour from the person in such a way as to not "throw the baby out with the bath water".

    Lest you gain the impression that ESTPs are perfect, let's take a reality check here. Are they perfect? Well, if you are not the one who is eye-ball to eye-ball with the ESTP but are waiting for them, you had better move on if you have another appointment. What's the problem here? Well, while ESTPs are giving undivided attention to the one who IS eye-ball to eye-ball - warm, interested, cheerful and unhurried attention, the one waiting is left "cooling their heels", chafing at the bit at being "stood up" or overlooked again! And the ESTP isn't even bothered. Why? Because they are so generous, outgoing and even-handed that they aren't "bent out of shape" if the roles were to be reversed!

    And another thing. They are again so objectively accepting of others, that they are clearly able to see all points of view and are also able and willing to articulate that fact - which is maddening to someone who would rather be agreed with or is looking from a friend for support for their already carved-out stance. Trouble is, most ESTPs are generally friends of or friendly towards the other people, too.

    Clever, very diplomatic and brilliantly resourceful, master at "reading" non-verbal behaviours, they are able to do and to say "the hard thing". They are the ones who are brought in to do the "heavy-lifting" of downsizing, reformulating policy, making presentations to "higher-ups", deal objectively with all the emotional stuff.


    As with other ESs, novelty is intriguing and stimulating...new experiences, foods, people, ideas make life exciting. ESTPs enjoy laughter, talking, playing. They, too, are fun-loving, with non-judgmental natures but are not likely to be abused as they are objective and not subjective, prefer thinking to emotion and are more apt to prefer reality over the abstract. Their heads are not in the clouds. They can take a lot, but when they are done...they are done.


    The ESTPs enjoy people which makes them fun to be with and they are generally good conversationalists with a wide range of interests.


    Children love them and they make super parents who are less disciplinarian than are SJs - being able to "play" at the child's level and to really know what it "feels like" to be a child...for, in a strange way, ESTPs have many attributes of the child, which include being accepting, open-minded, outgoing, interested in learning and able to drop the old and move on to the new.



    Again, as with the ESFPs, ESTPs don't like to be asked to deal with the abstract. They, too, much prefer what they can see, touch, taste, smell and hear: hands-on experiencing. Intuition and visualizing are not strong points and it is difficult for them to "imagine". They much prefer concrete examples to help them to understand.

    Sports, concerts, people-things are pleasing for ESTPs like spontaneity and activity. Spontaneity makes them feel "alive". Games in which they can "win" appeal to them also - particularly those which involve skill, acitivity, spontaneity and resourcefulness.

    This same approach goes with them into the business arena, too, which is not always appreciated. ESTPs prefer to wait until "the last moment' to prepare that report, to check on supplies, to "get ready". Yeh, they are procrastinators, but with a purpose, even an unconscious one: they really love the pressure of last minute deadlines, for their resourcefulness is called to the fore and they just love "landing-on-their-feet" when just
    hours before not much had been done at all - much to the amazement of team members or family members or friends. Well, amazing to some, but VERY discomfiting and alarming to others who prefer the more orderly, timely and fore-planned approach [schedules]. But this is their way and it generally works for them.

    ESTPs can become depressed if they feel they have failed. They don't like to.

    Likeable and liking to like, somewhat non-comformists but not "in-your-face" rebellious, accepting and cheerful, easy-going and enjoying, intelligent and resourceful, engaging and friendly, ESTPs are more than welcome additions in life's arena of hard knocks. They bring a warmth and delight that is rare to our midsts and we are all gladdened and encouraged by their cheerful presence.

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    Did you write that?
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    lol no, but I have considered writing about the sle type. The problem is I don't know if what I will be describing is just me or my personality type in general. It would be nice to have a further indepth look into the estp world. I don't think people really understand what it's like.

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    This is cut out from another site and is extremely accurate regarding why we appear to be so attractive.

    Life is never dull around ESTPs. Their attractive, friendly style has a theatrical flourish which makes even the most routine, mundane event seem exciting. ESTPs usually know the location of the best restaurants, and headwaiters are likely to call them by name. ESTPs are socially sophisticated, suave, and urbane and are master manipulators of the external environment.

    ESTPs are uncanny at observing people's motivations, somehow hypersensitive to minimal nonverbal cues which other types might miss. And they are masters at using these observations to "sell" the "client." The eye of the ESTP is ever on the eye of the beholder, and all actions are directed toward this audience. Witty, clever, and fun, ESTPs seem to possess an unusual amount of empathy, when in fact this is not the case; rather, they are so acutely aware of minimal signals from others that they are usually several jumps ahead in anticipation of another's position. And ESTPs can use information gained to the ends they have in mind - apparently with nerves of steel, engaging in what seems to others to be suicidal brinkmanship. Other types may find this exhausting, but ESTPs are exhilarated by working close to the edge of disaster. ESTPs are ruthless pragmatists and often offer the ends as justification for whatever means they see as necessary - regrettable, perhaps, but necessary. Usually, however, ESTPs do not care to justify actions, but prefer instead to get on to the next action

    I also feel it's important to mention we have no problem telling others very personal things about ourselves, I think that helps in the manipulation of trust from others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigEars
    lol no, but I have considered writing about the sle type. The problem is I don't know if what I will be describing is just me or my personality type in general. It would be nice to have a further indepth look into the estp world. I don't think people really understand what it's like.
    If you would like to write about your type, I would not mind putting it on my website next to Herzblut's description. ESTps who know anything about socionics are in short supply, so it would be nice to have them talk about themselves alot more.

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    Default How does this sound estps?

    Quote Originally Posted by rmcnew
    If you would like to write about your type, I would not mind putting it on my website next to Herzblut's description. ESTps who know anything about socionics are in short supply, so it would be nice to have them talk about themselves alot more.
    SLE/ESTP

    We are increadibly logical thinkers. If it does not make sense to us, we would dismiss
    or even rebel against the idea. Effeciency, that is what we surround ourselves by everything
    does not have to be perfectly in line, but it has an order that seems logical to us (ex: if a
    row of 5 picture frames were on a wall and there was one below this row, we would move that
    one because it was out of place and was not efficient where it was). We enjoy things that stimulate our senses (eating alot, music,
    movies,cigarettes etc). We rarely sleep for long periods of time, but when we sleep, we sleep!
    We are unbelievably active and may have up to 20 projects going on at once. We tend to start
    many projects without finishing them. We have morals, deep ones, but in the face of authority
    they can be dismissed entirely depending upon the situation. We are attracted to challenge and oddly enough prefer challenge
    over simple task (which explains some estps trouble through school). Alot of estps
    that have sudden burst of energy (shouting, dancing, singing) are not actually doing this for
    attention at all, they do this because they are so excited about something that they must do this.
    It's like trying to hold back a sneeze or cough, just really hard. We are adaptive to anything.
    We could live in any place, any time, any situation and be the same as we were anywhere else.
    We have a strong tendency to reconize ulterior motives, we know what you are up to basically.
    We know exactly what you want from us, we know exactly what you meant when you said that, we know
    what you are about to say just because of the way you are looking at us. All this is going on
    subconciously. One of our great talents the one I like most anyway is our perception. A good example of
    this is say I walk by a room and look in only catching a glimpse of the woman sitting in the chair.
    I could tell you absolutely every physical flaw about her, from head to toe. Imagine being able to
    go over a 1000 point checklist in a split second. That is exactly what it is like. We are excellent with people.
    We have many techniques we don't know we use to make people like us; "Make" being the keyword.
    Our memory is uncanny, especially for things we experience personally, it's almost as if our memory
    never deletes anything. We usually pick up on most things fairly quick due to this wealth of
    knowledge and our intensely adaptable nature. Estps are big on respect, we say our sirs and ma'am's
    and we will never cast the first stone, never. Even when confronted with insults and personal attacks
    the estp most likely cares less about your opinoin but, if and when you piss an sle/estp off good luck
    with your recovery. Remember we know your weaknesses, we know what your thinking, we can make you look
    retarded so why even attack us? Fortunately, most estp very rarely get angry, simply because they do not
    see a logical means for it and again they probably don't care. We like the outdoors because it allows us to be
    involved in more sensory indulgement. We often prove ourselves to everyone time and time again
    this is more like gravity than expressing ones talents, it's something that must be done. We are in ever constant
    competition, we look at most things like a contest that we must win (ex: estps might prefer the chase for the mate
    rather than the mate itself). Some estps might spend short periods of time looking in the mirror.

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    Excellent description! Like more than 90% of it applies to me.
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    I think that's fairly accurate. One point though, from my experience running some pretty busy automotive forums...

    Remember we know your weaknesses, we know what your thinking, we can make you look retarded so why even attack us?
    I've been attacked by ESTp's before, and I know they did "think" they were making me look pretty stupid. But from my perspective I could see that as them making themselves look stupid. When I feel that way, it's usually due to lack of / on the ESTp's end. They may really be crucifying me with a logical point, but in reality the lack of Ne/Ni may cause them to miss the big picture, and maybe even the whole point altogether. To other sensors, yes, you may be making me "look" pretty stupid. But to other N-types, you very well could just be making yourself look stupid because they see what I see also, and you very well might not.

    So that might be a matter of perspective. Otherwise kudos for typing up the profile.
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    Quote Originally Posted by StevINP
    I think that's fairly accurate. One point though, from my experience running some pretty busy automotive forums...

    Remember we know your weaknesses, we know what your thinking, we can make you look retarded so why even attack us?
    I've been attacked by ESTp's before, and I know they did "think" they were making me look pretty stupid. But from my perspective I could see that as them making themselves look stupid. When I feel that way, it's usually due to lack of / on the ESTp's end. They may really be crucifying me with a logical point, but in reality the lack of Ne/Ni may cause them to miss the big picture, and maybe even the whole point altogether. To other sensors, yes, you may be making me "look" pretty stupid. But to other N-types, you very well could just be making yourself look stupid because they see what I see also, and you very well might not.

    So that might be a matter of perspective. Otherwise kudos for typing up the profile.
    The difference is the ESTp does not care if they look stupid or not. You obviously do (hence why you mentioned it) furthermore, I sense that you have had some differences with people of this type before and you are coming off as someone who might be jealous of an sle/estp. We are all about the big picture, everything has to be logical so the picture is more clear. So if I look stupid oh well, I don't care, you're the one who "can't stand" this type, I apparently can tolerate you

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herzblut
    Excellent description! Like more than 90% of it applies to me.
    Like I said, I was afraid that some of it would only apply to me

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigEars
    The difference is the ESTp does not care if they look stupid or not. You obviously do (hence why you mentioned it)
    This is probably true.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigEars
    furthermore, I sense that you have had some differences with people of this type before and you are coming off as someone who might be jealous of an sle/estp.
    Differences yes, jealousy no. I just explained more in detail here...

    oldforumlinkviewtopic.php?t=1256&start=15

    Quote Originally Posted by BigEars
    We are all about the big picture, everything has to be logical so the picture is more clear. So if I look stupid oh well, I don't care, you're the one who "can't stand" this type, I apparently can tolerate you
    I think being logical and being able to see the big picture are two very different things. The RL ESTp's in my life I've seen get into some pretty big trouble due to not being able to see the big picture. And the "it's not my fault that...' attitude is a big part of what prevents them from seeing that, learning from their mistakes, and not making the same mistakes over. Always shift the blame away to somebody else. THEY need to go see a shrink. Why are THEY so sensitive? It's not MY fault that... But sometimes it just is.. But an SLE will not necessarily see it that way no matter how much evidence you present.

    S-types and N-types will have very different opinions on what exactly the "big picture" is. There are things that Sensors can pick out that Intuitives like myself would have a lot of difficulty with. For example, Rocky seems to have a knack for VI which is very sensory, and I know I could never do this as naturally as he could. But it works both ways too. Intuitives can see some things much better than Sensors can. Sometimes seeing the "big picture" means needing to see Intuitive abstract concepts to get it all, in which case a sensor could miss it. And vice versa. I certainly miss sensory things, but that's what my wife is for so I'm covered there.
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    "He just couldn't understand for the life of him why she would get so upset at some of the things he'd say. He'd tell her that she needed to get counseling or go see a shrink too" (oh what an asshole, he should burn in hell) I'm 28 and have been with my wife since we were both 18 (so he didn't get married when he was in the army, and he's not stuck like you)
    omg my wife would slap me straight across the face if I said that to her, you're nuts!" but that's about it.
    So he doesn't let his wife walk all over him like your wife? okay so you proved my point for me, you wish you were him. We talk about the people we want to be like, regardless of good or bad we admire them in someway or we wouldn't talk about them. Dispite what you think, nothing you can say will change anything about my life, and from the start your intention was to slam estp's just because of a few bad apples. So should I judge all your type as one? no because I am not a judger. Seriously, you did say that original statement that was in no way intended to be politically correct or a non-I hate estp statement which was "I can't stand the "i'm all that attitude, and the entire world revolves around me" I know people like that too and you know what? they usually are all that and a bag of chips, but you aren't so you have no idea what it's like. Being attractive is not a blessing, despite what you think you know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigEars
    (oh what an asshole, he should burn in hell)
    In my view don't complain about how your wife is always upset with you if you are the one that's causing her to be upset.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigEars
    (so he didn't get married when he was in the army, and he's not stuck like you)
    I do not see it as being "stuck".

    Quote Originally Posted by BigEars
    So he doesn't let his wife walk all over him like your wife? okay so you proved my point for me, you wish you were him.
    Nonsense, from MY point of view..

    Quote Originally Posted by BigEars
    We talk about the people we want to be like, regardless of good or bad we admire them in someway or we wouldn't talk about them.
    Even bigger nonsense from MY point of view. All you have done here is proven that you simply cannot see the viewpoint of others.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigEars
    Dispite what you think, nothing you can say will change anything about my life
    I am not trying to change YOUR life, I am merely trying to understand YOUR type better.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigEars
    , and from the start your intention was to slam estp's just because of a few bad apples.
    Yet more utter nonsense from MY point of view.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigEars
    So should I judge all your type as one? no because I am not a judger. Seriously, you did say that original statement that was in no way intended to be politically correct or a non-I hate estp statement which was "I can't stand the "i'm all that attitude, and the entire world revolves around me"
    The point is, which you have COMPLETELY missed is that yes I don't like it, but I'd like to understand it and where it comes from. I'm an NT. I like to learn about and understand things. I am not trying to slam you. I am trying to understand you.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigEars
    I know people like that too and you know what? they usually are all that and a bag of chips, but you aren't so you have no idea what it's like. Being attractive is not a blessing, despite what you think you know.
    whatever bro. I was wondering how this conversation would go, and it went pretty much exactly as expected. I can recall dozens of other online conversations I've had with ESTp's on the other forums I help to run and this is about par for the course.


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    you can either be cool or you can continue this, I really do not care. I don't think I have expressed this enough. you honestly do not seek the need to learn about us or you would be nice. That's like telling a professor of your major to fuck off.

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    Of late whenever I read these threads about ESTps, I am reminded of Joran van der Sloot that guy in Aruba who is suspected of killing Natalee Holloway. I saw an interview with him after he was freed when he kept going on about how she just 'threw' herself at him while he the poor innocent (my words)just stood passively there. He just came across to me as a guy with no real sense of responsibility and he seems unable to see this. I do hope that he is an exceptionally bad ESTp and not a true representative of this type.

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    you can either be cool or you can continue this, I really do not care. I don't think I have expressed this enough. you honestly do not seek the need to learn about us or you would be nice. That's like telling a professor of your major to fuck off.
    See you think you've got me all figured out.

    You think you've considered all of the "practical and logical evidence and applying towards the subject to come to a conclusive answer." You think you know how I think and you think you know how I feel. You feel like you know me. You expect me to value the same things you do, see me saying what I am, and then think I'm bullshit. You say I don't really care to learn about ESTp's (when I do), and when I express a view that's different than yours it's so foreign that you just can't comprehend it. So now you "think" you're making a really ingenious post and that you've made me look really retarded as you described ESTp's in an argument.

    In reality though, I'm just laughing at you now because you don't have the slightest clue about me, but you really "think" you do. But you don't. Not at all. And if a professor of my major sits here and tell me that I feel certain ways about things when I most certainly 100% do not, I most definitely will tell them to fuck off. Positions, titles, and stature tend to not mean jack to NT's. I don't care who you are, if you're telling me I feel a certain way about something and it just ain't so, I'm calling you on it.

    No matter how strongly you feel about the following statement...

    So he doesn't let his wife walk all over him like your wife? okay so you proved my point for me, you wish you were him. We talk about the people we want to be like, regardless of good or bad we admire them in someway or we wouldn't talk about them.
    That is pure crap. That is your view and your belief that I do not share, yet you're trying to impose your view on me, and judge me by it. You can say whatever you want, and the harder you try to prove it, the harder I'll laugh because it just isn't so.

    This is the problem that I have in dealing with ESTp's, and it is EXACTLY why I avoid arguing with them if at all possible. Here on this forum it's just an exercise and I don't care either. I help run a web forum with 15k members, and another one with over 50k members and I see this pattern all the time. You simply don't realize that there are other views out there besides your own because you lack /. You have a tendancy to only see things from your own shoes and you have difficultly accepting the views of others.

    Now, do I expect you to change? No. I expect you to be true to your type, and right now you are. Do I expect you to see things my way? No, I don't expect that either. What I do expect is as follows. I understand that ESTp's have very different thinking patterns, views, beliefs, and different ways of running their lives than I do. I'm not going to try to impose my views/beliefs/standards on them because it's not them. Anybody who tries to do that is an idiot. If this is what my parents are trying to do to my sister then they're idiots. If that's true, I'd like to find out about it so that I can stop it and then maybe any resentment from my sister towards me and/or my parents will subside because there's clearly a rift. OTOH, it would be good if ESTps also understood that other people have very different views, beliefs, values, thinking patterns, and ways of running their lives than you do, and that you shouldn't judge them by that either.

    I bet my sister looks at me in disgust. I found someone I loved early and settled down and married them, pursued a higher education, yadda yadda. My brother... he's such an idiot! Doesn't he want to get out there, meet tons of people, go everywhere, see things, do things, travel? Doesn't he want his "independence"? How could he NOT want this? He's STUPID!!! My wife the SJ sees my sister just as I think my sister probably sees me.

    OTOH, I simply see my sister living her life how she wants to. I understand that she's different and doesn't value the same things that I do. I don't expect her to live her life the way I choose to live mine. I'm an NT, I like learning things, we value education, I have two degrees. I wanted to just find someone and settle down, and it looks like I've lucked out and found a Dual to me and am very happy. I would not want any other woman on this planet except her, and I want her for life. I'm not adventurous, I don't want to travel all over, I'm not impulsive, I don't want to play the field with women. This may be you, but IT IS NOT ME.


    The gap can be bridged, but only if you realize that there's something to cross over in the first place. There's a gigantic rift in my own family that's clear as day to me, and I'd like to be able to bridge that gap someday. Learning about socionics and how the different types relate is key to that for me, even though you "think" otherwise. You can think what you will though. I'm here to learn as NT's like to do, not type bash. That's nonsense to me.

    So even though you piss me off, I'm still glad you're here (I think ). I'm learning about you and your type better, it will help me in the future, and maybe you'll learn something about people like myself too. You and I are very different, but again, the gap can be bridged.


    Peace out for now (going on vacation for 2wk, gotta finish packing :wink: )
    Te-INTp/ILI, my wife: Fi-ISFj/ESI, with laser beam death rays for ESTp/SLEs, lol
    16 years of bliss in an Activity relationship

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by StevINP
    you can either be cool or you can continue this, I really do not care. I don't think I have expressed this enough. you honestly do not seek the need to learn about us or you would be nice. That's like telling a professor of your major to fuck off.
    See you think you've got me all figured out.
    Somehow, I have given you the impression I care, I am sorry for that. I do not think things, I know things. We live in rational, logical world, i'm not trying to make you see it my way, I am trying to tell you that is it my way.
    In reality though, I'm just laughing at you now because you don't have the slightest clue about me, but you really "think" you do. But you don't. Not at all. And if a professor of my major sits here and tell me that I feel certain ways about things when I most certainly 100% do not, I most definitely will tell them to fuck off. Positions, titles, and stature tend to not mean jack to NT's. I don't care who you are, if you're telling me I feel a certain way about something and it just ain't so, I'm calling you on it.
    I am telling you that you are this way, what I "think" does not require you to feel the same way, it just is.

    No matter how strongly you feel about the following statement...

    So he doesn't let his wife walk all over him like your wife? okay so you proved my point for me, you wish you were him. We talk about the people we want to be like, regardless of good or bad we admire them in someway or we wouldn't talk about them.
    That is pure crap. That is your view and your belief that I do not share, yet you're trying to impose your view on me, and judge me by it. You can say whatever you want, and the harder you try to prove it, the harder I'll laugh because it just isn't so.
    [/quote] Well actually, this is a statement that applies to all types. It's proven to be true.
    This is the problem that I have in dealing with ESTp's, and it is EXACTLY why I avoid arguing with them if at all possible. Here on this forum it's just an exercise and I don't care either. I help run a web forum with 15k members, and another one with over 50k members and I see this pattern all the time. You simply don't realize that there are other views out there besides your own because you lack /. You have a tendancy to only see things from your own shoes and you have difficultly accepting the views of others.
    The problem you have is you seem to have resentment towards your sister and want to try and take it out on other people of her type on a forum. WE DO NOT NEED TO VIEW THINGS YOUR WAY, because our view are calculated and correct.
    Now, do I expect you to change? No. I expect you to be true to your type, and right now you are. Do I expect you to see things my way? No, I don't expect that either. What I do expect is as follows. I understand that ESTp's have very different thinking patterns, views, beliefs, and different ways of running their lives than I do. I'm not going to try to impose my views/beliefs/standards on them because it's not them. Anybody who tries to do that is an idiot. If this is what my parents are trying to do to my sister then they're idiots. If that's true, I'd like to find out about it so that I can stop it and then maybe any resentment from my sister towards me and/or my parents will subside because there's clearly a rift. OTOH, it would be good if ESTps also understood that other people have very different views, beliefs, values, thinking patterns, and ways of running their lives than you do, and that you shouldn't judge them by that either.

    I bet my sister looks at me in disgust. I found someone I loved early and settled down and married them, pursued a higher education, yadda yadda. My brother... he's such an idiot! Doesn't he want to get out there, meet tons of people, go everywhere, see things, do things, travel? Doesn't he want his "independence"? How could he NOT want this? He's STUPID!!! My wife the SJ sees my sister just as I think my sister probably sees me.

    OTOH, I simply see my sister living her life how she wants to. I understand that she's different and doesn't value the same things that I do. I don't expect her to live her life the way I choose to live mine. I'm an NT, I like learning things, we value education, I have two degrees. I wanted to just find someone and settle down, and it looks like I've lucked out and found a Dual to me and am very happy. I would not want any other woman on this planet except her, and I want her for life. I'm not adventurous, I don't want to travel all over, I'm not impulsive, I don't want to play the field with women. This may be you, but IT IS NOT ME.
    My beliefs do not require you to see it my way. Nor would I want you to feel the same way I do about a subject mostly i'd be upset if you were thinking along the same lines as me. I want you to be whatever your are that's what makes this world so lovely.

    The gap can be bridged, but only if you realize that there's something to cross over in the first place. There's a gigantic rift in my own family that's clear as day to me, and I'd like to be able to bridge that gap someday. Learning about socionics and how the different types relate is key to that for me, even though you "think" otherwise. You can think what you will though. I'm here to learn as NT's like to do, not type bash. That's nonsense to me.

    So even though you piss me off, I'm still glad you're here (I think ). I'm learning about you and your type better, it will help me in the future, and maybe you'll learn something about people like myself too. You and I are very different, but again, the gap can be bridged.


    Peace out for now (going on vacation for 2wk, gotta finish packing :wink: )
    As I said before, we are not easily angered and albiet it might be important to understand a wide variety of views. YOUR personal view is irrelevent. I do not wish to bridge the gap I do not wish you to even learn about my type. I wish you to go away and solve this matter directly at the source(your sister, your friends) and stop bitching about it on a forum. We are not all evil assholes unable to see your viewpoint. WE SEE IT, OKAY?! The problem is we KNOW yours is wrong.

  23. #23

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    @Steve: don't even try . . . BE sounds EXACTLY like my husband.

    Ahhhh, supervision relations, they're so pleasant, aren't they?

    @BE: do you think you are ever wrong?
    Entp
    ILE

  24. #24
    six turnin', four burnin' stevENTj's Avatar
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    @ BE: thanks for the laugh.

    @ Blaze: I agree.


    Edit: It's just his ultra-rigid foudation defending his creative function against the "attacks" from the strong in my id block. Wow this is awesome, I think I'm really starting to see how all this fits together now. Good stuff! :wink:
    Te-INTp/ILI, my wife: Fi-ISFj/ESI, with laser beam death rays for ESTp/SLEs, lol
    16 years of bliss in an Activity relationship

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze
    @Steve: don't even try . . . BE sounds EXACTLY like my husband.

    Ahhhh, supervision relations, they're so pleasant, aren't they?

    @BE: do you think you are ever wrong?
    I AM WRONG ALOT, I don't think I would say that I am wrong alot though.

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous
    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze
    @Steve: don't even try . . . BE sounds EXACTLY like my husband.

    Ahhhh, supervision relations, they're so pleasant, aren't they?

    @BE: do you think you are ever wrong?
    I AM WRONG ALOT, I don't think I would say that I am wrong alot though.
    YES!! I knew it, "guest".

    See? Pointless to try to get them to admit they are wrong, a complete waste of time.
    Entp
    ILE

  27. #27

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    Hmm... Getting a little flamey, don't you think?
    Steve, it is really nasty of you, manipulating him like that. I understand how it would make you feel good (Heck, I'd feel the same way! I'd feel guilty afterwards, though...).
    BigEars, don't you think you may have overreacted slightly?
    I'm probably sticking my hand into the hornet's nest here, but heck, this might end up like a nuclear fallout area yet!

    The last few posts seem to be morte moderate, thugh, so if I posted at the wrong time, sorry.
    Beware! Nerd genes on the prowl.

    INFj - The Holy CPU Saint
    Dishonorary INFp
    Baah

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