Results 1 to 35 of 35

Thread: ESFps disliking being told what to do and given orders

  1. #1

    Default ESFps disliking being told what to do and given orders

    well... it friggin pisses me off, i hate it when people tell me what to do or give me orders, and usually i'll just ignore them, unless im in a situation where i have to listen (work for example), but even then i will usually try to find the loophole in the order and screw the person over.

    now dont get me wrong, im not a bad employee, or anything like that, i just dont like orders, i always get my work done, the thing that bothers me is when people give me specific orders that are outside of what i usually have to do. my basic standpoint on the whole thing is that if u want me to do something, come ask me, dont just tell me... i mean seriously, it doesnt take that much more effort for someone to ask instead of tell, it just feels like the person giving the orders doesnt care about u, just wants to push some shit off on u

    anyone else like this out there? ive heard hints at stuff like this in delta before so i figured might as well start a thread, plus theres like, no threads w/ enfp in the title for way to long now, so i needed to push one in :-P
    Last edited by silke; 03-16-2014 at 08:02 AM. Reason: edited out spam link

  2. #2
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,634
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think all ExxP are especially against orders.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  3. #3
    eunice's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    TIM
    Ne-INFj
    Posts
    2,955
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    I think all ExxP are especially against orders.
    I think it is a Delta trait as well.

  4. #4
    escaping anndelise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    WA
    TIM
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp
    Posts
    6,338
    Mentioned
    210 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: enfp-------> i hate orders

    When someone places a demand or expectation on me, I will actually do the opposite. (which really is just another way of controlling me..if they actually figured out how to do it) Even small demands/expectations, like washing the dishes or doing the laundry. If it's expected that I will do it, I flat out won't do it, letting it pile up and up and up until the expector finally digs in to do it themself...and then i'll jump in and help them, hehehe.

    Unfortunately, this also works when I myself place a demand or expectation upon myself. Like, if I tell myself I really have to get such and such paperwork done, then I get all pissy and find all sorts of reasons NOT to do it. I've been working on psyching myself out...like, telling myself I can do it tomorrow..and then jumping in to do it before I've time to think about it.

    I also usually won't commit to anything if asked. As long as I'm not committed, I'm likely to help in some way I feel I am capable of helping. I absolutely will not....and may get aggressive...if I'm being demanded/expected to do something that is not a natural aspect of myself....like, Girl Scout Troop Leader expecting me to play the perfect mother host to a bunch of bratty girls.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    M-H λ
    Posts
    2,609
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    I think all ExxP are especially against orders.
    i sort of think it is related to too. which is what she was getting at with polr i believe. i don't like having others make descisions that force me into a certain position for example.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    2,916
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    ---
    INTp
    sx/sp

  7. #7
    heath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    5,722
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    this is the post where I attempted to use my frustrations with people at work to fight and say bad things about people on a messageboard. I'm a quality person, and this is evidence.
    asd

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    2,916
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    ---
    INTp
    sx/sp

  9. #9
    eunice's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    TIM
    Ne-INFj
    Posts
    2,955
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mea
    Quote Originally Posted by heath
    I don't understand this. When people roll their eyes or whatever when I ask them, or even tell them to do something. I'm asking for THE SAKE OF THE WORK AT HAND. Nothing is ever in question or on my mind besides that. In fact, it bothers me that there are people out there who are hellbent on 'not taking orders' which generally means "hey, fuck the team." Collaboration > your ego - any fucking day of the week.

    gah. sorry.
    It's different in a team. I'm happy to do stuff if someone asks nicely, but not a way like they think "you can't do it", "you're lazy, thus i'm giving you instructions". I don't order, I request/ask when I need something done. So I don't see why others can't do the same.

    If it's a really cocky person that's doing the ordering around, it's worse. Say a cocky lecturer/teacher/boss, I don't really care about their position to tell them off.

    And it also depends on my mood.
    Same here. I feel that a request or favour is fine, but a command or order feels like the person is putting me down. The content might be the same, but the way the person conveys the message tells it all.

  10. #10
    heath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    5,722
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    psh, impoliteness police. Words are only 1/4 of the battle.
    asd

  11. #11
    aka Slacker Slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    North Korea
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    8,819
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't mind at all helping people and being gently guided. I like that. I hate being ORDERED to do something. Especially something stupid that isn't really necessary but it simply written in some Standard Operating Procedures book somewhere. Standard Operating Procedures are my three most hated words in the English language. When used together like that.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

  12. #12
    Topaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    1,340
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Well I concure. Ive had bosses and supervisors (ISTJs and ESTPs) give me orders in the worse ways. I detest it. I dont think they are deliberately trying to tick me off but it does and usually it does not lead to greater productivity but quite the opposite. I finally decided not to work for or under such people anymore. Like others have mentioned, I dont mind being asked to do stuff. Ive gotten to the point now though that if I even feel like someone is asking me but its just a veneer and they are actually telling me I will still feel like resisting or I might resist completely. It really depends on the situation. Some task I feel go well beyond my ego and just need to be done. Other task do nothing for me or anyone else really. They are designed so someone can put down a bigger number on a piece of paper saying "We did X amount more than last week " or something like that to make the one giving the orders look good. Then you are just a tool to put more money in someone elses pocket or move them up the ladder. It reminds me of those football games I played when I was a kid. There would always be two or three glory hogs that wanted you to always block for them so they could run the touchdown but you never got the pass or to be the quarterback. In the end I didnt end up with a feeling of team accomplishment, but like I had been a flunky for someone elses ego trip.

    Topaz
    The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.

  13. #13
    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    6,630
    Mentioned
    159 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Is it just me or is "independent" the most overused description in Socionics? It apparently describes ESTps, ESTjs, ENFps, INTjs, ISFps, ISTps, and INTps.

  14. #14
    Topaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    1,340
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Is it just me or is "independent" the most overused description in Socionics? It apparently describes ESTps, ESTjs, ENFps, INTjs, ISFps, ISTps, and INTps.
    it is overused.

    Topaz
    The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.

  15. #15
    heath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    5,722
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    i'd say IxTx is much more independent then all other types. Indepdepence being not relying, or even having much interest in the world around them, and oftentimes pursuing their own interests over anything else. IxFx are too attached to those close to them, and ExTx are too into talking and being in groups of others, for whatever reason.
    asd

  16. #16

    Default

    Heath, i find ur comment interesting, because i know thats how the people giving the orders see things, and u seem like a decent person so im going to ask you, why do u feel the need to just tell someone to do something instead of just asking? i understand that in leadership roles or whatever sometimes u just need to tell someone to suck it up and do something they think is stupid, but shouldnt that be the exception? maybe this is the "emotionally manipulative" side of my personality showing itself, but i can usually convince about anyone to do something, even if they dont want to, simply by pointing out how it would b good for the team, granted it might take a little longer, but its worth it because if you show the person how its better for the team/them in the long run they do a better job at it.

    also, i agree about douchebags who take all the credit for other peoples work, im currently stuck working with one as my immediate supervisor and that probably inspired this thread... just thought i would throw that in there
    Last edited by silke; 05-15-2014 at 10:23 AM. Reason: edited out spam link

  17. #17
    heath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    5,722
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by timeofurlife42
    Heath, i find ur comment interesting, because i know thats how the people giving the orders see things, and u seem like a decent person so im going to ask you, why do u feel the need to just tell someone to do something instead of just asking? i understand that in leadership roles or whatever sometimes u just need to tell someone to suck it up and do something they think is stupid, but shouldnt that be the exception? maybe this is the "emotionally manipulative" side of my personality showing itself, but i can usually convince about anyone to do something, even if they dont want to, simply by pointing out how it would b good for the team, granted it might take a little longer, but its worth it because if you show the person how its better for the team/them in the long run they do a better job at it.

    also, i agree about douchebags who take all the credit for other peoples work, im currently stuck working with one as my immediate supervisor and that probably inspired this thread... just thought i would throw that in there
    cause i'm fucked up. I don't know how to tell people that they did a good job, either.
    asd

  18. #18
    aka Slacker Slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    North Korea
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    8,819
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I personally don't need to be told I'm doing a good job. I can tell if people think I'm doing a good job without being told.

    And I don't mind people being in management positions above me. It's all about style. There's a way of managing where you are leading, and there's a way of managing where you are ruling. Leading is cool. In fact, I am not a leader and like working under a good leader.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

  19. #19
    Topaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    1,340
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    I personally don't need to be told I'm doing a good job. I can tell if people think I'm doing a good job without being told.

    And I don't mind people being in management positions above me. It's all about style. There's a way of managing where you are leading, and there's a way of managing where you are ruling. Leading is cool. In fact, I am not a leader and like working under a good leader.
    I totally agree. Well, actually I do like being told Im doing a good job It doesnt have to be directly but it could be in the way of more responsibilty. I am sometimes asked to take leadership roles esp. in certain arenas. I do so reluctantly. It works out really well if I have some strong supporters. Like if I were to throw a party I love to work with ESFJs for this kind of thing. They are super supportive, know more than me about all that is neccessary and take over the job without taking over the position of party giver. I just try to keep them motivated and happy. I lavish praise on them in front of the guest and everyone goes home happy.

    Topaz
    The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.

  20. #20
    escaping anndelise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    WA
    TIM
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp
    Posts
    6,338
    Mentioned
    210 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    When I did work (many years ago), I usually ended up in a some kind of motivating role. Unfortunately, due to the way the systems were set up, that also put me into a leadership position. But I've never been a "stand on the podium and motivate the masses" kind of motivator. It's always been me down with the group, motivating individuals and placing them into the positions that they would be naturally best at.

    The best "good job!" compliment was allowing me the freedom to do what I do best instead of trying to use me to force someone else's demands on the individuals. As long as I knew what needed to be done, I had no problem getting certain people into the positions they were good at.

    But it wasn't just that. I also had a tendency to make things a little more tolerable if not fun. When I worked as a manager in the production line of the local newspaper, (the sorting machines), we'd have race type things going on. Like, each person at a machine, and two supporter's who'd keep the machine workers stacked without pausing the machines. The supporter's would compete over who could keep their three machines caught up. Or if on a friday night a bunch of people called in sick I'd jump into doing 2-3 machines myself...and depending on the one's I worked (thin flat sheets) I'd also provide support for those near me. If I only worked one machine, then I also worked support for everyone else.

    Of the other two managers, one always stood on the other side of the sorting machine for when the machine clogged, so he could quickly unclog it. And the other stood around giving orders. (I hated her...and so did the other workers.) When me and the guy were in charge, everyone joked and had some kind of fun. When she was around, everyone was tense. She seemed to think (because of how quickly I had risen to my position) that I was interested in the next promotion. And while the promotion HAD been offered to me, I saw no point in my taking it. It would have been a complete change from working with the people and being where the action is....to becoming a pencil pusher. As far I as I was concerned, that girl could have that job. The extra money meant nothing if I couldn't enjoy my job.

    In highschool jrotc, I became one of the "instructors" within the first half of the school year. I'd be given the lessons that were needed to be done, and I was the one who "taught" the class. There were a couple of people that did that for each class set. In my class, it more often came down to me and another girl (who was a jr to my freshman). She was sooooo boring, and bossy, and bitchy. We'd deliberately make her job harder. But I always tried to find a more interesting way to present the material. Whether it was role playing first aid stuff, treasure hunting for map reading skills, or making fun of the more boring stuff that could only be read. I quickly moved into drill instruction as well. (God, those were the days.)

    Anyways, those were examples of what I considered "good job compliments". Allowing me to do what I do best, in the way I do it best.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

  21. #21
    Topaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    1,340
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    Anyways, those were examples of what I considered "good job compliments". Allowing me to do what I do best, in the way I do it best.
    Bravo Ann, I think I wouldve liked working with you too!
    Once I was working in a graphics dept of a busy printing plant. I had been promoted to my own office as part of special production. I was happy for the recognition and was very serious about doing a good job. Once a number of workers from my old area were out on vacation and some were sick. I was asked to pitch in and help out for a week or two. I was happy to do it. I was back again with my old friends, doing my old duties which included alot of running around fixing things and moving chemicals etc. I walked around bouncing and singing and smiling at everybody. "Good moring" "Hey man, whats up?" "How are you today?" "HAhahahahahaha" and so on. Anyway, one of the women that I worked with from my office job saw me and she noted "Topaz, you are so happy over here! Youre singing and alive. You are always so serious on our side". This caught me off guard. I hadnt realized that by working in that quiet, serious office environment without much contact from people I had taken on a very serious deminor. I was also experiencing body aches and head aches too. I thought it was just the weather (like SAD) but really it was I was just in a boring stuffy job. So after bit I quit.

    Topaz
    The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.

  22. #22
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,634
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Topaz
    Well I concure. Ive had bosses and supervisors (ISTJs and ESTPs) give me orders in the worse ways. I detest it. I dont think they are deliberately trying to tick me off but it does and usually it does not lead to greater productivity but quite the opposite. I finally decided not to work for or under such people anymore.
    I know, I know. Sometimes I see some identicals and mirrors, and I can't help feeling sorry for their lack of tact in managing people. I also think that some people happen to respect them out of this, but I really think they should get better at it. It's not a difficult task. I admit that when I am in a "dangerous" situation, though, I can't help but spewing orders.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  23. #23

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    2,916
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    ---
    INTp
    sx/sp

  24. #24
    aka Slacker Slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    North Korea
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    8,819
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I appreciate thanks but I don't need to hear "good job" every two minutes. I've had bosses who do that too, and it feels manipulative. Like I'm a two year old. "Oh good standing! Good sitting! Good eating! Good breathing!"
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

  25. #25
    Topaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    1,340
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    I appreciate thanks but I don't need to hear "good job" every two minutes. I've had bosses who do that too, and it feels manipulative. Like I'm a two year old. "Oh good standing! Good sitting! Good eating! Good breathing!"

    Topaz
    The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.

  26. #26
    escaping anndelise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    WA
    TIM
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp
    Posts
    6,338
    Mentioned
    210 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Topaz
    Once I was working in a graphics dept of a busy printing plant. I had been promoted to my own office as part of special production. I was happy for the recognition and was very serious about doing a good job. Once a number of workers from my old area were out on vacation and some were sick. I was asked to pitch in and help out for a week or two. I was happy to do it. I was back again with my old friends, doing my old duties which included alot of running around fixing things and moving chemicals etc. I walked around bouncing and singing and smiling at everybody. "Good moring" "Hey man, whats up?" "How are you today?" "HAhahahahahaha" and so on. Anyway, one of the women that I worked with from my office job saw me and she noted "Topaz, you are so happy over here! Youre singing and alive. You are always so serious on our side". This caught me off guard. I hadnt realized that by working in that quiet, serious office environment without much contact from people I had taken on a very serious deminor. I was also experiencing body aches and head aches too. I thought it was just the weather (like SAD) but really it was I was just in a boring stuffy job. So after bit I quit.
    Your story reminds me of a male ENFp friend of mine who worked for one of those cell phone companies in one of their support offices. They really seduced their workers, and were very harsh when it came to penalities. My friend was so sure that he was going to get a raise, get promoted, move up in the world, and eventually be able to open up his own office (enfp idealistic daydreams). He'd quit his part time waiter job (which he'd worked at for years) so that he could put more time and effort into this other job. After one year, he burned out completely. Went back to work for the same restaurant company (different town though) and felt like he'd returned home. Working as a waiter at Olive Garden gave him everything he wanted in a job, contact with people, both customers and fellow employees, ready money (tips) for spontaneous purchases, and varying times off so that he had access to both a night life AND a day life.

    He's so funny though, every once in a while he'll try working "a good office job" (I think he feels it's expected of him?)....but always, he winds up quitting it and returning to being a waiter. He's got a good wife now (I'm not sure her type, Si with Te). She maintains a steady income at a job she enjoys and is there for him when his newest big job opportunity fails him.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

  27. #27
    Topaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    1,340
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Thats a great story Ann. Ive quit a few jobs thinking I was going to find something better. One of these days though..... you'll see, you'll see
    At least it keeps my friends and family entertained

    Topaz
    The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.

  28. #28

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    354
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I really dislike being ordered to do something, especially when they are coming from a place of telling you to do something simply because they can, or entirely because they 'are above you'
    I have no problem though doing something eg for mum if its genuine and there is a real reason why I should do it.
    Friendly ISTp
    Interested in everything, yes, EVERYTHING
    Flower's motto: Life's too short even to do the things you want to, let alone the things you dont!!

  29. #29
    meatburger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    A Quazar named Northern Territory
    Posts
    2,570
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I just resigned from my call centre job about a week ago. Was there 3.0 years.

    It was interesting i was in one call centre and they monitored my stats really heavily. For instance if my talk time went up one day they would tell me thats its gone up. Then my talk time would go down and my logging time would go up. Then my logging time would go down and my error rate would go up lol. Assholes.

    I moved into their other joint helpdesk and i have an ENFj as my team leader. She always supports me and calls me special and ladies man etc. She doesn't monitor my stats and if i made an error she just sends me an email says "whoopsie daisy" LOL.

    Because of her relaxed style of management, i have moved from a stressed bugged out quiet dude to an outgoing guy with possibly the highest customer satisfaction surveys in the whole centre. It really helps when someone appreciates you..

    Shes up for review very soon and she has a few people on her wrong side. Before i leave im going to make sure i do what i can too assist her in my ENFp covert way
    ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)

    "And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin

  30. #30

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    5,101
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't like taking orders when I feel someone is "putting me in my place" or "talking down to me." There's not many things in the world that piss me off more at the workplace.
    I've learned how to talk to people with a considerable amount of tact compared to most others I've known and worked with. I'm not a manager in my job but everyone I work with knows that I pretty much run things. The good part, is that they like it this way, or at least tell me that... I very rarely order people around to do things that I could be doing myself. I do however ask them to do things that need to be done. I am actually pretty good at reading people's emotional states when I'm around them so I can tailor how things are ran based on how I feel the other person is feeling.
    I've been known to tell people that don't seem to be in a good mood, to go take a bit longer break and I'll finish what they were working on with no problem.
    I've called myself bossy at times to a coworker but they'll come back saying, well you're not bossy, you just know how to get things done and be nice about it, compared to others. It is funny to look back and see how I was a leader in Everything I've ever done, I figure a lot of it was some social intelligence I learned when i was a little kid... It's made giving orders something I'm good at.


    (For some reason, this may be another post that'll make some people think I'm ESFJ... but I'm not.)

  31. #31
    aka Slacker Slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    North Korea
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    8,819
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    My ESTj ex-boss was probably my favorite boss ever.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

  32. #32

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    ohio
    Posts
    36
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think most people hate orders regardless of type. I've just been studying Marxist theory and in that theory one main component is alienation. We feel alienated or estranged from our human nature when our labor or creattive activity is objectified. We feel not connected to it or do we feel we own it. Also as a part of the labor workforce or proletariat we are no longer are treated as human beings but as objects thats are supposed to be productive in as the buyer of the labor ( bourgeoisie, capitalist, etc) can make a profit. That is why a person can feel he can shout orders at you because you are in your human nature degraded to anobject whose sole purpose is to help someone make a profit. You are in effect a wage slave = someone who sells his time in order to obtain the basic subsistance of life ( food, clothing, shelter, etc) to survive. In that state you feel powerless because basically you are a slave. You have to sell a 3rd or more of your time of the day to another man to manage a human existence.

  33. #33
    heath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    5,722
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by baydog
    I think most people hate orders regardless of type. I've just been studying Marxist theory and in that theory one main component is alienation. We feel alienated or estranged from our human nature when our labor or creattive activity is objectified. We feel not connected to it or do we feel we own it. Also as a part of the labor workforce or proletariat we are no longer are treated as human beings but as objects thats are supposed to be productive in as the buyer of the labor ( bourgeoisie, capitalist, etc) can make a profit. That is why a person can feel he can shout orders at you because you are in your human nature degraded to anobject whose sole purpose is to help someone make a profit. You are in effect a wage slave = someone who sells his time in order to obtain the basic subsistance of life ( food, clothing, shelter, etc) to survive. In that state you feel powerless because basically you are a slave. You have to sell a 3rd or more of your time of the day to another man to manage a human existence.
    poor babies.
    asd

  34. #34

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    ohio
    Posts
    36
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by heath
    Quote Originally Posted by baydog
    I think most people hate orders regardless of type. I've just been studying Marxist theory and in that theory one main component is alienation. We feel alienated or estranged from our human nature when our labor or creattive activity is objectified. We feel not connected to it or do we feel we own it. Also as a part of the labor workforce or proletariat we are no longer are treated as human beings but as objects thats are supposed to be productive in as the buyer of the labor ( bourgeoisie, capitalist, etc) can make a profit. That is why a person can feel he can shout orders at you because you are in your human nature degraded to anobject whose sole purpose is to help someone make a profit. You are in effect a wage slave = someone who sells his time in order to obtain the basic subsistance of life ( food, clothing, shelter, etc) to survive. In that state you feel powerless because basically you are a slave. You have to sell a 3rd or more of your time of the day to another man to manage a human existence.
    poor babies.
    Personally i think it's the curse of Adam, if you ever study biblical theology. All though history you had the Exploiters and the Exploitated. The predators and prey. Before the industrial revolution it was the Monarch and his Nobles. Now the bourgeoisie replaced the feudal nobles. I doubt if the sytem will ever improve.There will always be some clever group of people who will monopolize all the economic and political power in their own hands and convince the rest of the masses that the interests of the ruling class is the interest of the masses also by using patriotism, cultural hedgemony, free market ideology, etc.

  35. #35
    heath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    5,722
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    that might be true. the situation is hopeless. None of us belong to the ruling class, and none of us will ever belong to ruling class. That said, let's stop talking about them.
    asd

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •