Ellen Degeneres

[Suz]

pretty sure she's Fi-IEE, probably so-first

oh really? you think i'm so-first?
We'll have to chat about that sometime...

[Olduvai]

sorry, that's not how unconsciously strong functions work.

for me, Fe is "strong but unvalued" (or "subdued"):

Subdued functions are the remaining four functions that oppose our preferences; as a result we try to limit the use of these functions. Since these functions are what we suppress as much as we can, in situations where we must use them they tend to produce dissatisfaction and distress in ourselves.

This, and the rest of your post only serve to display how little you understand socionics, and i'm not really going to bother responding to the rest of it.

this, and the rest of your post only serve to display how ignorant and cowardly you are

You have much studying to do, my friend.

in ways unrelated to socionics, yes; but as far as typology goes, I'm all set

Heck, i've been at this for years, and the more I study it the less confident i become.

perhaps you should just quit?

[Radio]

oh really? you think i'm so-first?
We'll have to chat about that sometime...

hm? oh i meant Ellen. i have chris clearly etc on ignore now, so i wasn't really following you guys' conversation.

[Iris]

[Iris]

@Chris Clearly here is Chelsea Handler (SLE) with Ellen (IEE). In Chelsea you can see Se, and also unvalued Fi. Really the opposite of Ellen, with her valued Fi and unvalued Se. At 2:25 - 2:51 there is an aggressor/infantile interaction that really shows the difference between the two..
Chelsea: Why don’t you get enough time off, Girl?

Ellen: I don’t know, Girl.

[Suz]

hm? oh i meant Ellen. i have chris clearly etc on ignore now, so i wasn't really following you guys' conversation.

i was going to say... i've been told i'm so-last...

[Olduvai]

In Chelsea you can see Se

where?

and also unvalued Fi

how?

Really the opposite of Ellen, with her valued Fi and unvalued Se.

again, where and how?

At 2:25 - 2:51 there is an aggressor/infantile interaction that really shows the difference between the two..

sorry, but I don't think that exchange has anything to do with Erotic Attitudes

[Suz]

perhaps you should just quit?

sure... i'll quit listening to you...

[Olduvai]

sure... i'll quit listening to you...

if you want to continue not understanding this stuff, then go for it

[Iris]

sorry, but I don't think that exchange has anything to do with Erotic Attitudes

I have gotten into a habit of extending the erotic attitudes beyond just romance relationships, and projected the attitudes of aggression, caregiving, etc into social interactions. They are just nuances that i notice. But I should have said forceful/meek interaction. Sorry about that.

Se is about power, acquistion (material or social.) In my opinion, Chelsea Handler's dominent presence contrasted with Ellen's more low key approach is an example of the difference between Se/Si valuing. Ellen has stated in many interviews her philosophy that it is important it is to be kind, an Fi attitude that her performances reflect. Chelsea is clearly not as concerned with the possibility of offending people. Sorry not to give specific sxamples at this point but it is time for bed!

[Olduvai]

I have gotten into a habit of extending the erotic attitudes beyond just romance relationships, and projected the attitudes of aggression, caregiving, etc into social interactions. They are just nuances that i notice. But I should have said forceful/meek interaction. Sorry about that.

don't be sorry, that's an interesting approach

In my opinion, Chelsea Handler's dominent presence contrasted with Ellen's more low key approach is an example of the difference between Se/Si valuing.

I honestly could see Chelsea Handler as SLE; I could see Ellen as ILE, but no way is she IEE.

Ellen has stated in many interviews her philosophy that it is important it is to be kind, an Fi attitude that her performances reflect.

going along with the ILE possibility, here's Filatova:

– He establishes both for himself and others high standards of moral behavior.

[IBTL]

I have an SEE homosexual friend from New Orleans. He's always having people over at his house for informal gatherings. He'll cook for them and entertain them, and he wants to be kind while doing so of course. He used to work in the wine department at an import store where he would socialize with people and recommend different things to customers that he liked and wanted them to try.

He's an advocate for the underdog for sure! But I think all people who have had a difficult time being accepted are advocates for those who struggle in one form or another. For example, he was proud of being able to claim that he went to prom with this girl and they were the first interracial couple to attend that school's prom, which was his artisanal (XSXp) way of breaking boundaries.

Sometimes he'll lash out aggressively and dramatically for one reason or another, but it usually doesn't last very long due to his inherently playful nature!

SEEs and LIEs value hospitality. While they enjoy being around their friends, they also have a need to meet new people (Se/Fi) and exchange information (Te) in order to make new connections (Ni).

[IBTL]

If nothing else, the above video that Iris posted and then I quoted explicitly portrays the SEE's need to:

Aggressors/Employers: SEE (ESFp) ESI (ISFj)

These types, like the conquerors, express their sexuality openly. In daily life they may tend to be rather submissive and as a result may tend to carry over these tendencies into their romantic life. They are won over by indirect acts of submission, and are thrilled when their love interest (in the case of the "psuedo-aggressor" type) acts unlike himself. In a partner, they are looking for their equal - someone whose solid facade they can break down piece by piece.

[Radio]

I have an SEE homosexual friend from New Orleans. He's always having people over at his house for informal gatherings. He'll cook for them and entertain them, and he wants to be kind while doing so of course. He used to work in the wine department at an import store where he would socialize with people and recommend different things to customers that he liked and wanted them to try.

He's an advocate for the underdog for sure! But I think all people who have had a difficult time being accepted are advocates for those who struggle in one form or another. For example, he was proud of being able to claim that he went to prom with this girl and they were the first interracial couple to attend that school's prom, which was his artisanal (XSXp) way of breaking boundaries.

Sometimes he'll lash out aggressively and dramatically for one reason or another, but it usually doesn't last very long due to his inherently playful nature!

SEEs and LIEs value hospitality. While they enjoy being around their friends, they also have a need to meet new people (Se/Fi) and exchange information (Te) in order to make new connections (Ni).

Maritsa 2.0

[IBTL]

Maritsa 2.0

You're officially on ignore from this point forward. I tried and tried and tried to give you a chance Radio, but I've had enough!

[Radio]

You're officially on ignore from this point forward. I tried and tried and tried to give you a chance Radio, but I've had enough!

i have never felt more accomplished.

[IBTL]

sorry, that's not how unconsciously strong functions work.

Excellent! I'm quoting you in my sig!

[Iris]

don't be sorry, that's an interesting approach




I honestly could see Chelsea Handler as SLE; I could see Ellen as ILE, but no way is she IEE.




going along with the ILE possibility, here's Filatova:
[/COLOR]

Hmmm interesting, I will think about that idea.

I think she is hard to type because she seems a little guarded, probably because of her life experience. I tend to think she is not Fe valuing, because while she is introducing elements of fun and games (could seem alpha) in her shows, she doesn't seem like she feels obligated to influence the emotional atmosphere in interviews (Fe.)

I really think her agenda is advancing her platform of kindness moreso than personal prestige which makes me think not SEE.

[Olduvai]

I really think her agenda is advancing her platform of kindness moreso than personal prestige which makes me think not SEE.

yeah, she's definitely not SEE

[Oaky]

I might be in a minority that holds an unpopular opinion about Ellen. I find her personality uninteresting no matter how many videos I watch of her. She seems like that one friend in a group everyone likes who just throws out little jokes here and there through general associations and connections about something. Could be an IEE.

[SyrupDeGem]

@Chris Clearly watch the vid 0.58 - 1.15 for delta Fi.
1.30 - 1.45 for classic Ne inventiveness

Will continue to watch for more examples

[Olduvai]

@Chris Clearly watch the vid 0.58 - 1.15 for delta Fi.

that's not Fi, this is

1.30 - 1.45 for classic Ne inventiveness

so "inventiveness" = Ne?

[SyrupDeGem]

that's not Fi, this is




so "inventiveness" = Ne?

Lol Chris, that's not Fi, it's an idea. Could be a NeFi fuelled idea, I has lots of those.

And no, please don't put words into my mouth. I said it's classic Ne inventiveness, I did not say only Ne is inventive. Also lots of people use Ne and Ne inventiveness, I was just giving a clear example.

Also if you watch the vid you will see they have an animal sanctuary for abused animals, that seems pretty deltan rescue.

[Saberstorm]

So according to Chris Clearly pain at economic reasoning is valued Fi? (His example is a rant at modern economics and his own personal lack of production.)

From his rant, I see unvalued Te - pain at production. I see a desire for him to be a source of ethics - but what type of ethics? He sounds like his rant should culminate with groups operating at the nexus point between self promotion and political maneuvering. He sounds like he is trying to stand between an SLE promoter and the SEE politician. In other words - he is an IEI!!!

[SyrupDeGem]

So according to Chris Clearly pain at economic reasoning is valued Fi? (His example is a rant at modern economics and his lack of production.)

I sometimes wonder if he is Fi polr, such is his difficulty in understanding it. But really I don't care enough to argue, if he wants to identify as IEE thats cool with me. I generally like to give people the credit that they know themselves best, I rarely comment unless people ask for help or are attacking my type and typing skills, even then it's rare.

[Saberstorm]

I do not want to retype people either, but he is always retyping others.

[Iris]

@Chris Clearly watch the vid 0.58 - 1.15 for delta Fi.
1.30 - 1.45 for classic Ne inventiveness

Will continue to watch for more examples

Hey thanks for posting that. I was feeling bad for not taking the time to do it!

[Iris]

I sometimes wonder if he is Fi polr, such is his difficulty in understanding it. But really I don't care enough to argue, if he wants to identify as IEE thats cool with me. I generally like to give people the credit that they know themselves best, I rarely comment unless people ask for help or are attacking my type and typing skills, even then it's rare.

Gem's openness to possibilities seems like a classic example of IEE-ness. @Chris Clearly you seem to have more of a focus on closing doors rather than considering possibilities in typing people in your threads. Sort of the opposite of Gem. You seem like a very definite person to me. I don't know what that means, socionically speaking, just wanted to point out something I noticed. Ugh, but what the heck do I know. (Don't listen to me.) *Iris fears having overstepped*

[Slacker]

Ellen Degeneres is SLE

OK, worst typing ever.

And Sashosyant sounds like a rebirth of phaedrus.

[SyrupDeGem]

OK, worst typing ever.

And Sashosyant sounds like a rebirth of phaedrus.

Chris does seem to type many IEE's as SLE though so there something in that. Woof broke down his confusion with the functions so it was evident where he is going wrong with typings. So anyhoo's chances are if you self type IEE Chris will retype you SLE, which I suppose makes a nice change from maritsa typing most IEE's as SEE. But still somehow amusing.

[Olduvai]

such is his difficulty in understanding it.

isn't understanding typically associated with Ti, and knowledge typically associated with Te? if I have a hard time understanding concepts, wouldn't that make me weak in Ti?

if he wants to identify as IEE thats cool with me.

it's not that I identify as IEE, it's that I am IEE

OK, worst typing ever.

no, that would be your self-typing of IEE

Chris does seem to type many IEE's as SLE though so there something in that.

no, I type many SLE as SLE; if you mean I *retype* many so-called IEE as SLE, that isn't even true - I've typed most of the "IEE" on this site as LII

Woof broke down his confusion with the functions

woof merely demonstrated how my definitions of the functions differ from the "official" definitions

so it was evident where he is going wrong with typings.

too bad I don't really use those definitions to type; I mostly use Reinin (positivism/negativism, asking/declaring, yielding/obstinate), Forms of Cognition, Filatova's portraits, and my own "gut feelings"

So according to Chris Clearly pain at economic reasoning is valued Fi?

no, Fi is me talking about how I feel inside

(His example is a rant at modern economics and his own personal lack of production.)

it has nothing to do with economics or a personal lack of production; it has to do with me feeling useless, obsolete, and alienated

[Beautiful sky]

A P type

[willekeurig]

IEE

[Slacker]

isn't understanding typically associated with Ti, and knowledge typically associated with Te? if I have a hard time understanding concepts, wouldn't that make me weak in Ti?




it's not that I identify as IEE, it's that I am IEE




no, that would be your self-typing of IEE




no, I type many SLE as SLE; if you mean I *retype* many so-called IEE as SLE, that isn't even true - I've typed most of the "IEE" on this site as LII




woof merely demonstrated how my definitions of the functions differ from the "official" definitions




too bad I don't really use those definitions to type; I mostly use Reinin (positivism/negativism, asking/declaring, yielding/obstinate), Forms of Cognition, Filatova's portraits, and my own "gut feelings"




no, Fi is me talking about how I feel inside




it has nothing to do with economics or a personal lack of production; it has to do with me feeling useless, obsolete, and alienated

ROFL! This has got to be performance art!

[SyrupDeGem]

woof merely demonstrated how my definitions of the functions differ from the "official" definitions

I think this just about sums it up. It's ok to have a different theory, just don't call it socionics. Make it clear to people you are typing them in your own system. I am happy to be whatever type to you that you believe me to be within your own system. If you want me to be a CC (Chris Clearly) SLE then so be it. It's your own classification system and if it works for you then i'm cool with that.

The problem is when you go around playing the last of the mohawks in a theatrical two bit sham of a broadway play claiming to be a superstar. ust be honest about what you are offering and stop telling people they are wrong without explaining your own system. And certainly don't label it socionics as most people here understand it.

[Zero11]

isn't understanding typically associated with Ti, and knowledge typically associated with Te? if I have a hard time understanding concepts, wouldn't that make me weak in Ti?

It finally gets interesting I see my weakness in not seeing structure (unvalued Ti) and not compensated by conscious Relation orientation due to being a Gamma. In this way (just weak Ti I could see myself as Ti Super-ego.

Although I compared myself in relation to other types to find myself grounded in the System.

[Olduvai]

ROFL! This has got to be performance art!

nah, just Ti-PoLR

I think this just about sums it up. It's ok to have a different theory, just don't call it socionics.

it really isn't though; even without the explicit/implicit, object/field, static/dynamic definitions of the information elements, the theory of intertype relations would still hold up, because intertype relations are determined by the different positions of the functions in the psyche under the assumption that Ne blocks Se, Ti blocks Fi, etc.

Make it clear to people you are typing them in your own system. I am happy to be whatever type to you that you believe me to be within your own system. It's your own classification system and if it works for you then i'm cool with that. Stop telling people they are wrong without explaining your own system.

Ti is generally associated with the ability to recognize logical consistency and correctness, generate and apply classifications and systems, organize systematic and conceptual understanding, see logical connections between things (including logical similarities, differences, and correlations) by means of instinctive feelings of validity, symmetry, and even beauty. It is like common sense, in that it builds on one's expectations of reality, through a somewhat personal, though explicable, understanding of general truths and how they are manifested.

System, analysis, instruction, mathematics, structure, classification, register, parameter, regularity, law, synthesis, proof, understanding, right, duty, responsibilities

I do think that Ti-egos probably are related to the ideas of "systems" though not necessarily intellectual abstract systems that are designed. It's more that Ti-egos think in terms of systems, and so they might be more predisposed to understanding other designed systems because they're used to dealing with that way of understanding things. That is, they're used to thinking of things as a system, and so when they learn about new things they think of it in the same way, which works well for things which are indeed systems. However, it doesn't necessarily translate to being good at understanding systems, just being used to thinking in a certain way.
(I'm thinking that duty may also be part of Ti in the sense that the Ti-ego builds up an understanding of the society in which they live, and according to that system they then believe that each member is expected to act in certain ways for the healthy sustenance of that system i.e. it is their duty).

gee whiz, Gem, for someone who isn't supposed to care about systems, you sure seem to care about systems

And certainly don't label it socionics as most people here understand it.

lol, few people here understand it

and again, I mostly use Reinin (positivism/negativism, asking/declaring, yielding/obstinate), Forms of Cognition, Filatova's portraits/descriptions, and my own "gut feelings"

It finally gets interesting I see my weakness in not seeing structure (unvalued Ti) and not compensated by conscious Relation orientation due to being a Gamma. In this way (just weak Ti I could see myself as Ti Super-ego.

hmm, I always imagined you to be a thinker

Although I compared myself in relation to other types to find myself grounded in the System.

that's basically what I did, too

[SyrupDeGem]

isn't understanding typically associated with Ti, and knowledge typically associated with Te? if I have a hard time understanding concepts, wouldn't that make me weak in Ti?

No chris, IEE has a great ability for empathy because they do understand so much especially on an emotional level, though they may not show it so readily in person. You have a terrible lack of empathy yourself, preferring instead to chastise and lecture.

it's not that I identify as IEE, it's that I am IEE




no, that would be your self-typing of IEE

Again here we have the classic circular dance, your insistence that you know everything, it's quite pompous, nothing like hunter gatherer or gift exchanger.

no, I type many SLE as SLE; if you mean I *retype* many so-called IEE as SLE, that isn't even true - I've typed most of the "IEE" on this site as LII

I have noticed the ones you have retyped as SLE, they seem to outweigh the ones you retyped LII. Either way you heavily bias the occurrence of some types over others. This idea you have of hunter gatherers and gift based is not such a bad idea but you do lack some fundamentals in it. For example, Filatova, as far as I know, thought there was a fairly even based distribution of types. If you wanted to suggest that since Filatova IEE are a dying race then according to most what we know about evolution it would take a lot more time... unless a mass extinction occurred.

For me, as I have said a number of times (in different ways) it just seems that you feel isolated, alone and misunderstood... but this does not mean you are the only IEE oe even one of very few. It means you have to grow up and accept yourself.

woof merely demonstrated how my definitions of the functions differ from the "official" definitions




too bad I don't really use those definitions to type; I mostly use Reinin (positivism/negativism, asking/declaring, yielding/obstinate), Forms of Cognition, Filatova's portraits, and my own "gut feelings"

Ok so, lets go with that...I am Declaring, Negative and Obstinate

explain how you believe I am not, look at the text i wrote, and look at your own responses....

no, Fi is me talking about how I feel inside




it has nothing to do with economics or a personal lack of production; it has to do with me feeling useless, obsolete, and alienated

Those feelings you express are implicit, within an idea in that thread. Sometimes you do the special snowflake routine, maybe that is something more often associated with Fi than Fe ego, certainly in my experience. I have always been a drifter because I have not felt I belonged anywhere, not ever fit into any group but I now realise that it's me and a hell of a lot of people and in a funny way that makes me feel less alone at times.


Edit: I stopped with the system idea, it was just to show you you have a different theory than is used here. I do sometimes like systems for resource sharing purposes, this is true but it stops about there as I have always been a rebellious sort.

[Not A Communist Shill]

Is being utterly insufferable to all and being absolutely convinced you are right in your opinions consistent with being IEE as well, or is just generally poor form?

[Slacker]

You can't talk about Socionics without talking about systems because, well, Socionics is a system. A classification system even. Very Ti.

I think you need this: http://socionics.us/theory/information.shtml

I say that because I read somewhere you said that Ti is understanding and Te is knowledge, and you have a Ti PoLR because you don't understand things, and that is so vague as to be useless. Knowledge about what? Understanding about what?