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Thread: Living an IEI-INFp life and Te PoLR

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    Default Living an IEI-INFp life and Te PoLR

    Ok, so it seems I'm INFp in the end. I am slowly accepting it. Little thing here and little thing there doesn't match but so much evidence is supporting my INFpness that I don't see how I can escape it anymore.

    I thought I ask advice from my new (and old in the sense I thought I was ENFj 8-10 months ago) Quadra as how to live a successful life as an INFp I'm a bit late as I'm not a teenager anymore but apparently I should make some adjustments to my plans. I have always been professionally and otherwise aiming into positions and situations involving the use of . I have managed to pull it of quite well but there have been some stressful times too. I guess the stress was there because I was working with my PoLR all the time. Like in college and work the subjects involved a lot of and even though I managed to get good grades and performed my work well in the end many things took more time and effort than I expected and were mentally more exhaustive. I thought this is normal when you work under pressure but apparently I have made things a bit more difficult to myself than I could have had.

    It seems the fact that I have very effective periods followed by somewhat uneffective periods is PoLR related. I have always been wondering why I can't work at my "maximum potential effectiveness" for long periods of time without getting very stressed and eventually somewhat mentally exhausted. Using every day, year to year is very exhausting. I need a break every now and then.

    So...now I'm wondering if I can ever develop my abilities to be less exhaustive. Is the path I'm on sustainable at all? Should I make radical changes to my plans or just keep going and hope that with more experience things come easier. How far can INFp develop ? Especially the ability to be effective in using EVERY DAY to the point that your whole life and life style is dependent on your ability to use it. Is this a recipe for a burnout at the age of 40?

    Any thoughts or advice? Professionally I'm really close to the point of no return and I don't want to suffer a burn out when I'm 40 because I choose to rely on my PoLR for living. Instead of betting on my skills with technology should I instead seek out more oriented areas? Can you even trust socionics enough to make these kind of decisions? Are you really imprisoned by your PoLR or is it, in reality, possible to work with it and make it effective and effortless to use in the end?

    If anyone has anything to say about the INFp life here is the place to say it How can an INFp live a happy live? What does it take? I guess most here are too young to really know yet but I thought it is worth a try to make a thread about it

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    your biggest obstacle toward developing your poLR will be lack of interest. INFps generally do not find Te goals and skills important or desirable outside of basic need for survival. In college courses that were strong in Te, particularly mathematics, I was negligent about paying attention and doing work because it was disinteresting. When exams came around, I would force myself to focus and picked it up quickly, acquiring high scores. The stress of those classes came not from their difficulty but because they were coma-inducing.

    Some things associated with Te--mathmatical, economical or technology skills in your case, are skills that people do not have the mental tools to grasp intuitively because these are relatively new skills that haven't had time to be imprinted in our evolutionary psychology. These are things that everyone must put effort into learning so it's not like some types can't learn them, just that Te types may be more interested in developing them because they are strongly tied in with productivity and practicality. A burn out from your line of work is more likely to occur because it isn't interesting to you, not from your inability to do it.
    IEI subtype

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    I agree with vague.

    A lot of the time, we can luckily circumvent the need for with and . This has helped me get through an entire rhetoric class, which is drenched in . Math and Physics, I've found, I can grasp with the right teacher and some dilligent studying. This isn't anything different from an ESTj who needs to put in a little more effort in English class. We're always stretching ourselves, and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

    My first semester of college Calculus, I failed the first two exams. I summed up my resources, bought a "Calculus for Dummies" sort of book, and made sure I fully understood each and every homework problem. At the beginning, I felt out of my comfort zone, and as vague mentioned, kind of bored with the class. But as I worked at it, I felt my comfort zone stretching, becoming more comfortable with the principles of Calculus (researching the history and practical uses of it actually helped fuel my interest a bit <- and this is something that's helped me a lot; if you find a subject you can't identify with at first, make it identifiable by approaching it from a different angle: historical, artistic, practical). And, actually, the better I got at it, the more interesting it became. Interesting thing, human nature. "That which is laborious, becomes easy. That which is esay, becomes enjoyable." (Moshe Feldenkrais) I ended up with a high B in the class, and an A on Calc 2 the next semester.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baby
    (researching the history and practical uses of it actually helped fuel my interest a bit <- and this is something that's helped me a lot; if you find a subject you can't identify with at first, make it identifiable by approaching it from a different angle: historical, artistic, practical)
    Excellent advice and something I have also done. I recall reading a couple hundred page essay on the number Zero--how it was discovered and all the things that would not have otherwise been invented without the discovery of it. It gave mathematics a more interesting image than the pile of dull that I had previously viewed the random numbers on the page as. Boredom and not valuing something usually comes from not understanding it--I've even had this issue with my dominant functions, viewing Fe as frivolous until I recently read a book on evolutionary psychology which gave me new appreciation for it because I realize it does have a very practical function.
    IEI subtype

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    That actually sounds like something I'd be interested in reading. I remember finding the invention of zero really fascinating, when some lecturer described it.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Quote Originally Posted by Baby
    (researching the history and practical uses of it actually helped fuel my interest a bit <- and this is something that's helped me a lot; if you find a subject you can't identify with at first, make it identifiable by approaching it from a different angle: historical, artistic, practical)
    Excellent advice and something I have also done. I recall reading a couple hundred page essay on the number Zero--how it was discovered and all the things that would not have otherwise been invented without the discovery of it. It gave mathematics a more interesting image than the pile of dull that I had previously viewed the random numbers on the page as. Boredom and not valuing something usually comes from not understanding it--I've even had this issue with my dominant functions, viewing Fe as frivolous until I recently read a book on evolutionary psychology which gave me new appreciation for it because I realize it does have a very practical function.
    This is all too familiar. All of the above resonates.

    During my first day of math lab, we were engaged in a lengthy discussion regarding Euclid's first definition:

    "A point is that which has no part."

    The discussion didn't cease. Reappearing days later during proof demonstrations. Once I took the time to understand some of the premises Euclid laid down, geometry was no longer a boring/complicated entity that required my use of memorization ANNNNND took time away from my much more interesting social life. lol It was thrilling. I became a nerd.

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    xxx
    http://forum.socionix.com

    I don't see what's so important about the possibility of extraterrestrial life. It's just more people to declare war on.

    EVERYONE PLZ CONTINUE TO UPLOAD INFINITE AMOUNT OF PICS OF "CUTE" CATS AND PUPPIES. YOU KNOW WE GIVE A SHIT!!

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    You told me your cyber contact was private

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    I thought you don't browse that forum anymore!! goddamn gossipers trying to evoke a deep multi-pass intrigue around me!111 why you told him that I posted my contact?

    yes it is really private but XoX is a brotha in need so we're going to do everything to help him out. I was planning to remove it after 24 hours anyway and gmail has a rock-solid spam filter + I want to publicly brag/show it cuz I was SO eleet that I registered a gmail acc under my first real name back in April 2004 when everything was availible.
    http://forum.socionix.com

    I don't see what's so important about the possibility of extraterrestrial life. It's just more people to declare war on.

    EVERYONE PLZ CONTINUE TO UPLOAD INFINITE AMOUNT OF PICS OF "CUTE" CATS AND PUPPIES. YOU KNOW WE GIVE A SHIT!!

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    http://forum.socionix.com

    I don't see what's so important about the possibility of extraterrestrial life. It's just more people to declare war on.

    EVERYONE PLZ CONTINUE TO UPLOAD INFINITE AMOUNT OF PICS OF "CUTE" CATS AND PUPPIES. YOU KNOW WE GIVE A SHIT!!

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    I can relate quite well with Vague's first post. But I guess I don't have as critical view of as the post suggests. Or should we say I appreciate it more perhaps. I just don't want it to be enforced on me

    I can also relate to what Baby and Maze said.

    I can very well relate to what Krae said. For some reason Krae makes me all emo and crying. He is so nice.

    Well you might or might not have noticed that I jumped from INFp to ENFj. Mostly because I have interacted with two ESTps all week and I think activity is more likely than duality. However I cannot interact with them "freely" because of circumstances which might affect our relations a bit. I'm close to 100% sure I'm Beta anyways.

    I'm not sure how the ESTp/INFp duality should really work. I have a bit unstable relations with ESTps. For me it seems more like activity. Fcuk...reading this thread made me doubt myself again. I was sooo settled on ENFj already. INFps are somehow so "nice" or at least try to look like angels. I think my public image is usually more controversial.

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    D*mn I do not want to stalk you anymore but see I was right, was I not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    INFps are somehow so "nice" or at least try to look like angels. I think my public image is usually more controversial.
    IMO your public image is nice not controversial.
    All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster

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    Quote Originally Posted by stefana
    D*mn I do not want to stalk you anymore but see I was right, was I not.
    Heh well apparently yes You were not the only one though There now seems to be a concensus on Beta with occasional INTp votes. And a division between ENFj and INFp supporters. I'm a swing voter but currently more on the ENFj side. However it bothers me that some people see me as ENFj and some as INFp.

    Quote Originally Posted by oyburger
    IMO your public image is nice not controversial.
    Oh...I just have a feeling that wherever I go there will be a certain group of people I have some problems with. It is often small but vocal. Or maybe I'm just imagining it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX

    Heh well apparently yes You were not the only one though There now seems to be a concensus on Beta with occasional INTp votes. And a division between ENFj and INFp supporters. I'm a swing voter but currently more on the ENFj side. However it bothers me that some people see me as ENFj and some as INFp.
    in my experience musical tastes have been a useful way to discern ENFjs from INFps. What music do you listen to? Also INFps and ENFjs dress noticeably different, how do you dress? one of my roomates is ENFj-N subtype and i'm INFp so if you tell me this random information i can probably draw relations and help you come to a more final conclusion. anything you're interested in culturally music/movies/fashion i think can be used to differentiate which you are....
    though from what i've read I think you're ENFj N cuz my roomate kinda was in a similar situation as you are. I showed him his type and he was like "yah I kinda relate to this" and then he looked at another type and was like "yah I kinda relate to this too" and so i just had to tell him no this is what you are lol

    how are your public speaking skills? ENFjs usually are good at that whereas I totally just look down at my paper, even if it's memorized, and read in a fast light voice until someone tells me to speak up
    Personally the one type that I feel i can relate to and understand best is INTp N , we go on the darkest weirdest story rants that make anyone nearby laugh to hide their horror
    INFp-Ni

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    Quote Originally Posted by misutii
    in my experience musical tastes have been a useful way to discern ENFjs from INFps. What music do you listen to?
    Well my taste is not very well developed. In music or in pretty much anything. Actually I don't listen to music much because it generally is such a passive thing to do that I get anxious, heh. Just like watching tv. If I'm doing something while listening it works better. When driving a car, when dancing etc I like to listen to music. I generally just listen to some radio station which plays the top charts. When I hear some song which touches me I get that song and listen to it over and over again until it doesn't touch me anymore. Then I move on. I also have a short list of songs from different genres which still make an emotional effect on me after a long time. I don't have specific genres I like. I've known to like music from all genres. When younger I was somewhat into techno music and metal music though. Then all kinds of slow songs with lot of emotion are ok. And well anything with enough melody or passion. As I said my taste is not well defined I just look for random songs which have a strong emotional effect on me.

    Quote Originally Posted by misutii
    Also INFps and ENFjs dress noticeably different, how do you dress?
    In a very boring way. I don't have well defined taste with cloths either...generally I wear just something which feels good. Jeans and T-shirt is not a rare sight. Or some other kind of shirt which is a bit more "sophisticated". If I'm going somewhere where a specific dress code is required I try to follow it even though I'm not good at understanding what exactly is required. I do however like bright colours. For example I use red a lot and even pink or orange sometimes. Black is very common colour too. I have blue clothes also.

    Quote Originally Posted by misutii
    anything you're interested in culturally music/movies/fashion i think can be used to differentiate which you are....
    My interests are rather wide and I can't name much specific things. I do like fantasy subjects in movies though and I like role playing games and such etc. That is one thing that seems to stay over time. Science fiction too but fantasy seems to inspire me perhaps more. Meaning Lord of the Rings is better than Star Trek but I enjoy them both. I can try to think of more later. I'm sure there is more just they are not such a big part of my life so I have to spend some time reflecting before it comes clear what my interests actually are, heh.

    Quote Originally Posted by misutii
    how are your public speaking skills? ENFjs usually are good at that whereas I totally just look down at my paper, even if it's memorized, and read in a fast light voice until someone tells me to speak up
    Well, I used to have some anxiety problems with public performances but with experience they have more or less disappeared and nowadays I'm actually excited if I get "on stage". I think I'm rather good public speaker now but I need to prepare for that stuff well. Well I haven't spoken to big crowds though. I'm not sure if 15-30 people counts as "public speaking"

    Then I'm not someone who can make a great performance just like that. I need to prepare and practice in order to make the "show" a complete and well thought out experience. If I'm suddenly put on stage I probably won't make much of an impression especially if I'm supposed to speak about a serious subject. I'm not very coherent speaker without preparations. I can goof around and talk crap better though. But if I have to speak about something factual I have to prepare and concentrate.

    Also when I'm not in a "battle mode" or "show mode" I'm rather reserved imho.

    Quote Originally Posted by misutii
    Personally the one type that I feel i can relate to and understand best is INTp N , we go on the darkest weirdest story rants that make anyone nearby laugh to hide their horror
    I have a problem relating to almost anyone. However some people inspire me a lot which I guess is a form of relating. For example some ESTps. Other people too but I haven't figured out any other type patterns except the ESTp one.

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    nice, your responses actually really helped, now I am sure - beyond a doubt - that you fit ENFj -n subtype more so than INFp , i've included why below

    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by misutii
    in my experience musical tastes have been a useful way to discern ENFjs from INFps. What music do you listen to?
    Well my taste is not very well developed. In music or in pretty much anything. Actually I don't listen to music much because it generally is such a passive thing to do that I get anxious, heh. Just like watching tv. If I'm doing something while listening it works better. When driving a car, when dancing etc I like to listen to music. I generally just listen to some radio station which plays the top charts. When I hear some song which touches me I get that song and listen to it over and over again until it doesn't touch me anymore. Then I move on. I also have a short list of songs from different genres which still make an emotional effect on me after a long time. I don't have specific genres I like. I've known to like music from all genres. When younger I was somewhat into techno music and metal music though. Then all kinds of slow songs with lot of emotion are ok. And well anything with enough melody or passion. As I said my taste is not well defined I just look for random songs which have a strong emotional effect on me.
    My ENFj roomate is very much the same way. He listens to everything from classical to folk to various modern genres. Also he integrates music with doing various tasks like studying etc. I like a multitude of genres as well, however, my playlists are dominated by a certain theme of music, kinda like Depeche Mode, New Order, Blonde Redhead, Placebo etc. (self-absorbed, emotional, lyrically lamenting about something). also although i sometimes integrate music with other tasks i have a tendency to get completely lost in songs and the task gets ignored.

    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by misutii
    Also INFps and ENFjs dress noticeably different, how do you dress?
    In a very boring way. I don't have well defined taste with cloths either...generally I wear just something which feels good. Jeans and T-shirt is not a rare sight. Or some other kind of shirt which is a bit more "sophisticated". If I'm going somewhere where a specific dress code is required I try to follow it even though I'm not good at understanding what exactly is required. I do however like bright colours. For example I use red a lot and even pink or orange sometimes. Black is very common colour too. I have blue clothes also.
    my roomate almost never goes clothes shopping. although i don't necessarily either its only because when i do go i go $$$$ crazy and then cant afford to go for a while. He dresses in a basic (jeans + t-shirt) manner in daily life. When we go to the bar he sometimes borrows shirts from me to wear. He has one pair of shoes at our appartment, i have like 6. My closet is overloaded with clothes. When I'm bumming around the house i dress like a bum but when i go out in public i pay alot of attention on my appearance. it takes me like at least an hour to get ready before i go to bars or even longer if there's a girl i like involved (i guess i put effort into dressing for things to show others that i considered the event important? or maybe just for attention lol). I often wear jeans but they're the fitted/flaired kind and i combine them with white shoes and an appropriate top. In general my clothes are fitted vs. baggy/casual. ppl often compliment me on what i'm wearing when i've put effort into an outfit

    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    My interests are rather wide and I can't name much specific things. I do like fantasy subjects in movies though and I like role playing games and such etc. That is one thing that seems to stay over time. Science fiction too but fantasy seems to inspire me perhaps more. Meaning Lord of the Rings is better than Star Trek but I enjoy them both. I can try to think of more later. I'm sure there is more just they are not such a big part of my life so I have to spend some time reflecting before it comes clear what my interests actually are, heh.
    my roomate's the same way! (he enjoys both lord of the rings and star trek but prefers fantasy) also he play lots of fantasy strategy games i.e. heroes of might and magic III. I like fantasy and sci-fi too but for example, i wasn't enthralled with the lotr movies, my favourite star wars movie is attack of the clones i didnt care for the rest. I like movies that are epic/R-rated/romantic/tragic (preferably a combination of all!) video-game wise i usually just play rpgs tho i havent played any for a while as my laptop is found lacking

    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Well, I used to have some anxiety problems with public performances but with experience they have more or less disappeared and nowadays I'm actually excited if I get "on stage". I think I'm rather good public speaker now but I need to prepare for that stuff well. Well I haven't spoken to big crowds though. I'm not sure if 15-30 people counts as "public speaking"

    Then I'm not someone who can make a great performance just like that. I need to prepare and practice in order to make the "show" a complete and well thought out experience. If I'm suddenly put on stage I probably won't make much of an impression especially if I'm supposed to speak about a serious subject. I'm not very coherent speaker without preparations. I can goof around and talk crap better though. But if I have to speak about something factual I have to prepare and concentrate.

    Also when I'm not in a "battle mode" or "show mode" I'm rather reserved imho.
    again my roomate's the same way! he doesn't brag about his speaking ability but acknowledges he has it. Also he always asks me and my other roomate to listen to his presentations (gives him practice) and give criticism. For me my presentations are never done early enough to practice like that but even if they were i probably wouldn't. i just read over what i want to say a few times and pray my teacher rates me on content vs. ability to present

    also at first i thought he was introverted. I think this is the difference between the ENFj Ethical and intuitive subtypes -i've known 3 ethical subtypes and they're way more extroverted/energetic. when i was into mbti i thought he was INFP (i thought i was INTP lol) but socionics cleared this up. His moods are way more stable than mine. it seems like when he's awake he's always willing to talk about things if i approach whereas sometimes i get depressed and isolate myself from everything

    one other difference is that he's a lot better with logical areas (science/grammar) whereas he says i'm better at creative expression (like writing creatively/making random relations) sometimes he'll use me to help brainstorm stuff for him when he's doing assignments (he's majoring in psychology) He's way more diligent than me in school. he actually does all his shit and hands it in on time and gets As whereas i slack off and skip classes and dont start assignments till the last minute (literally THE LAST MINUTE -so im not done them till AFTER they're due lol) and get Bs, i think i need the anxiety to build up to a degree that i feel a psychological crisis approach and then i have no choice but to do it or fail

    anyways if you need anything cleared up feel free to ask. I know that everything i posted could have been written better in terms of socionics but my level of expertise in regards with functions(some people on this forum like expat have an admiral ability at that) is not that good yet.

    Also my favourite socionics work is some machine translated russian textbook (authored by Filatova i think) that was posted here a few months ago. lots of what i wrote can be related to its type descriptions. if you haven't read it/can't find it i can send it to you. its helped me clear up a lot of ambiguities
    INFp-Ni

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    To my big surprise, I can identify with a great deal of that.

    I listen to various songs of various styles. Very few authors manage to make more than 1 song that I would want on my computer. Everything from Catatonia to Spice Girls to Metallica. I have theme music. I listen to certain kinds of songs when I'm in a certain kind of mood. I have my study-music. It's got a lot of HIM and Korn from my pre-metal times. I often listen to the radio (top charts is good), because my own music collection is badly outdated.

    I used to dress very badly, now I dress badly. :wink: It does take me an hour to get ready if I'm going out. I go shopping for clothes often, but it's easy for me to say - I shop in second-hand stores and I walk past them every day on my way to school. I am very picky about what I dare to wear in public. I don't use many accessories, because I'm not good at matching them with the rest of the outfit.

    I don't know if I'm good at giving presentations... I used to be very nervous and I couldn't stop trembling. Pure panic that I was trying to hide. The most recent presentations were pretty good. I think I was at the top 10% of the class when measuring the over-all quality of the presentation. With 3 presentations within a couple of months, I went from 3/10 to 8/10 (my personal rating). I have potential to be very good at it.

    PS! I wanted to study psychology, but I didn't get in. I am quite good at logical areas (science/grammar), so I joined the Biology-Geography field. :wink:
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

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    Quote Originally Posted by misutii
    nice, your responses actually really helped, now I am sure - beyond a doubt - that you fit ENFj -n subtype more so than INFp , i've included why below
    I have a surprising question at this stage...could you see me as INTp or perhaps even some other type more than ENFj? The reason I ask is because I had a weird and not that good day which messed up my type conclusions somewhat...

    Quote Originally Posted by misutii
    My ENFj roomate is very much the same way. He listens to everything from classical to folk to various modern genres. Also he integrates music with doing various tasks like studying etc. I like a multitude of genres as well, however, my playlists are dominated by a certain theme of music, kinda like Depeche Mode, New Order, Blonde Redhead, Placebo etc. (self-absorbed, emotional, lyrically lamenting about something). also although i sometimes integrate music with other tasks i have a tendency to get completely lost in songs and the task gets ignored.
    It is very unlikely that I would get totally lost in songs but I have been known to get lost in games for example. Nowadays not very common though.

    Quote Originally Posted by misutii
    my roomate almost never goes clothes shopping. although i don't necessarily either its only because when i do go i go $$$$ crazy and then cant afford to go for a while. He dresses in a basic (jeans + t-shirt) manner in daily life. When we go to the bar he sometimes borrows shirts from me to wear. He has one pair of shoes at our appartment, i have like 6. My closet is overloaded with clothes. When I'm bumming around the house i dress like a bum but when i go out in public i pay alot of attention on my appearance. it takes me like at least an hour to get ready before i go to bars or even longer if there's a girl i like involved (i guess i put effort into dressing for things to show others that i considered the event important? or maybe just for attention lol). I often wear jeans but they're the fitted/flaired kind and i combine them with white shoes and an appropriate top. In general my clothes are fitted vs. baggy/casual. ppl often compliment me on what i'm wearing when i've put effort into an outfit
    Yes I think INFps generally put more effort in "clothing" than I do. Also they are more interested in "styles" etc. I actually can relate to your ENFj here. I don't think I have ever heard compliments about the way I dress when I have chosen the clothes myself...only when someone skilled has picked up what clothes I should wear in a certain occasion.

    Quote Originally Posted by misutii
    also at first i thought he was introverted. I think this is the difference between the ENFj Ethical and intuitive subtypes -i've known 3 ethical subtypes and they're way more extroverted/energetic. when i was into mbti i thought he was INFP (i thought i was INTP lol) but socionics cleared this up. His moods are way more stable than mine. it seems like when he's awake he's always willing to talk about things if i approach whereas sometimes i get depressed and isolate myself from everything
    I should make a thread about ENFj (N) and ENFj (F) at some point. Subtypes deserve more discussion. Also separating ENTj, ENFj, INTp and INFp of intuitive subtype seems like a difficult task...

    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    He's way more diligent than me in school. he actually does all his shit and hands it in on time and gets As whereas i slack off and skip classes and dont start assignments till the last minute (literally THE LAST MINUTE -so im not done them till AFTER they're due lol) and get Bs, i think i need the anxiety to build up to a degree that i feel a psychological crisis approach and then i have no choice but to do it or fail
    I can sometimes go into the "psychological crisis" mode that you described but generally I try to start assignments quite early. I'm sort of slow to do stuff and I don't like the last minute rush even though I am more effective in a "crisis" than normally. This is actually one of the things that suggest that perhaps I'm a p-type. I don't know if that is significant.

    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Also my favourite socionics work is some machine translated russian textbook (authored by Filatova i think) that was posted here a few months ago. lots of what i wrote can be related to its type descriptions. if you haven't read it/can't find it i can send it to you. its helped me clear up a lot of ambiguities
    I'm not sure if I have read that. Perhaps I should take a look. For some reason I have hard time with type descriptions. And type descriptions always seem to suggest INTp more than anything but I can more or less relate to many other descriptions too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    To my big surprise, I can identify with a great deal of that.

    I listen to various songs of various styles. Very few authors manage to make more than 1 song that I would want on my computer. Everything from Catatonia to Spice Girls to Metallica. I have theme music. I listen to certain kinds of songs when I'm in a certain kind of mood. I have my study-music. It's got a lot of HIM and Korn from my pre-metal times. I often listen to the radio (top charts is good), because my own music collection is badly outdated.

    I used to dress very badly, now I dress badly. :wink: It does take me an hour to get ready if I'm going out. I go shopping for clothes often, but it's easy for me to say - I shop in second-hand stores and I walk past them every day on my way to school. I am very picky about what I dare to wear in public. I don't use many accessories, because I'm not good at matching them with the rest of the outfit.

    I don't know if I'm good at giving presentations... I used to be very nervous and I couldn't stop trembling. Pure panic that I was trying to hide. The most recent presentations were pretty good. I think I was at the top 10% of the class when measuring the over-all quality of the presentation. With 3 presentations within a couple of months, I went from 3/10 to 8/10 (my personal rating). I have potential to be very good at it.

    PS! I wanted to study psychology, but I didn't get in. I am quite good at logical areas (science/grammar), so I joined the Biology-Geography field. :wink:
    Kristiina, do you think Erkki relates to that kind of stuff at all? Anyways I can relate to your description very well. It would be interesting to hear more about how you behave in groups of strangers? Or how do you behave in a group where others know each other but you don't know any of them well. Are you good at finding a role in that group or do you find that situation very annoying. How about when you are in a big group of people which you know quite well. Do you enjoy the group then? Do you enjoy it more than a group of strangers? And how do you differ from the INFp and INTp in this matter?

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    Another question...

    How would you see an ENFj, INFp or INTp would act in a group of 5+ somewhat annoying people who imho are all Delta's (ESTj, ENFp, INFj, ISTp all included). I was in a celebration thing and spent quite some time in that kind of group and it was one of the most annoying experiences of my life. They talked pure bullshit, the ESTj was the "alpha male" in the group and a 100% prick (and a rather dominating prick...), they were a bit drunk, they made my life a living hell...I couldn't do anything but hang there without saying really anything just listening to them talking crap about stuff which they obviously didn't know anything about with authority that would suggest otherwise.

    They seemed to support each other's crap stories to create complete crap stories which they found extremely funny and relevant. They never really tried listen to anything I try to argument (especially if it conflicts what they say). Not to mention that their topics were boring as hell (except the ENFps weird ideas about building new weird cities or something). I only managed to get in short bursts of mild criticism (I had to be nice because they were people who I can't afford to have a fight with really). ESTj was the lead prick dismissing everything without considering it at all. Then throwing out some total garbage with authority and expecting everybody to just accept it. He also had a habbit of making extremely rude jokes about how people look and what jobs they have etc. and then laughing at his own jokes. My humor didn't match with any of them except perhaps a bit with the ENFp. Mostly the ENFp doing the c o n s t a n t laughing and endless weird narratives.

    So..how an ENFj would act here. I was completely clueless. I felt so like having PoLR because I didn't have a natural role there and just couldn't find any kind of "acted out" role in that group. I was mostly just a silent and pissed off outsider. I had short moments of reasonable chat with the INFj who I think was the only one in that group I would even consider spending time with again. Perhaps an ENFj would have been able to adapt even to that kind of situation. Perhaps not. How do you see this kind of situation if you were put in it?

    Edit:
    I made a new thread about this situation so it might be better to answer it there (if you can come up with anything)
    http://the16types.no-ip.info/forums/...=162763#162763

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    Well you see mistuii is clearly an INFp and clearly the dual of an ESTp, because estps too have the same tendencies in regard to clothes, procrastination, so on (well procrastination I've gotten better a bit with age, but not much).

    I do think that thinking which type is likely your dual makes it very easy to identify your type. No j type to date could ever be my dual for example.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Well you see mistuii is clearly an INFp and clearly the dual of an ESTp, because estps too have the same tendencies in regard to clothes, procrastination, so on (well procrastination I've gotten better a bit with age, but not much).

    I do think that thinking which type is likely your dual makes it very easy to identify your type. No j type to date could ever be my dual for example.
    I totally agree about the parts about duals... many things that I like about the members of the opposite sex (or in general) are the traits that ISTjs have. This is not the same as the sexyness scale. I think I had both ESxp and ISFp higher than ISTj on that scale. It doesn't mean I can appreciate ISFp traits.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    To my big surprise, I can identify with a great deal of that.

    I listen to various songs of various styles. Very few authors manage to make more than 1 song that I would want on my computer. Everything from Catatonia to Spice Girls to Metallica. I have theme music. I listen to certain kinds of songs when I'm in a certain kind of mood. I have my study-music. It's got a lot of HIM and Korn from my pre-metal times. I often listen to the radio (top charts is good), because my own music collection is badly outdated.

    I used to dress very badly, now I dress badly. :wink: It does take me an hour to get ready if I'm going out. I go shopping for clothes often, but it's easy for me to say - I shop in second-hand stores and I walk past them every day on my way to school. I am very picky about what I dare to wear in public. I don't use many accessories, because I'm not good at matching them with the rest of the outfit.

    I don't know if I'm good at giving presentations... I used to be very nervous and I couldn't stop trembling. Pure panic that I was trying to hide. The most recent presentations were pretty good. I think I was at the top 10% of the class when measuring the over-all quality of the presentation. With 3 presentations within a couple of months, I went from 3/10 to 8/10 (my personal rating). I have potential to be very good at it.

    PS! I wanted to study psychology, but I didn't get in. I am quite good at logical areas (science/grammar), so I joined the Biology-Geography field. :wink:
    Kristiina, do you think Erkki relates to that kind of stuff at all? Anyways I can relate to your description very well. It would be interesting to hear more about how you behave in groups of strangers? Or how do you behave in a group where others know each other but you don't know any of them well. Are you good at finding a role in that group or do you find that situation very annoying. How about when you are in a big group of people which you know quite well. Do you enjoy the group then? Do you enjoy it more than a group of strangers? And how do you differ from the INFp and INTp in this matter?
    Erkki doesn't really listen to music (he likes quietness), he doesn't rate his own clothing style because he doesn't care about it much. And I really really can't see him talking about how he worries about presentations and stuff. He'd just mention that he has to perform and he'd gather the courage from somewhere within him and he'd just get it over with. He'll later ask if he did well, but nothing too serious. He's on a totally different scale, but if I look at it sentence to sentence, I think he might relate - the very little music he listens to is indeed from various styles, theme music. He doesn't know much about fashion/colors/styles, so he might relate to that part, and I guess he's not a natural performer... The over-all role and the personality combined from what you've written.... naaah! Not like him.

    In a group of strangers I'm very quiet. I don't have a role. I just observe people, smile and nod. If I don't like them, I'm just quiet, observe them and try to sneak away in a polite way. With friends I'm very active and talkative and keep-smiling. When I combine friends, it gets weird again. That's when I'm in a talking circle with friends I have different roles for. I just don't know what to say, how to speak... I don't know where I fit between them. That's what happened in Skype. I was talking to Ishy and I was pretty active. Then Meatburger came online. I usually get very active when we chat in MSN messenger... Me, Ishy and Meatburger had a three-way conversation and suddenly I didn't know what to say and when. I stopped having a role. I was very quiet and I let them do most of the talking.

    In a group of friends, I can spend 2-3 hours in a row being the main talker if there isn't any group discussion. Yesterday at a party I had to move from one person to another, because I didn't want to annoy people. It was too loud for group discussion. There was only room for max 3 people to talk as a group, but there were 5-8 people at the table. One person can only take so much of me in a high-energy chatterbox mode. lol, I love how the INTj reacts to this mode. He becomes talkative and friendly.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Another question...

    How would you see an ENFj, INFp or INTp would act in a group of 5+ somewhat annoying people who imho are all Delta's (ESTj, ENFp, INFj, ISTp all included). I was in a celebration thing and spent quite some time in that kind of group and it was one of the most annoying experiences of my life. They talked pure bullshit, the ESTj was the "alpha male" in the group and a 100% prick (and a rather dominating prick...), they were a bit drunk, they made my life a living hell...I couldn't do anything but hang there without saying really anything just listening to them talking crap about stuff which they obviously didn't know anything about with authority that would suggest otherwise.
    Hey i sent you a PM, i wanna send you the textbook file (i still have it saved on my laptop). after you read the info in the textbook i'd love to see how it influences your previous notions on the topic, because it definitely influenced mine, and we can continue the discussion here or in another thread
    INFp-Ni

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