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Thread: Two subtypes of SLEs-ESTps: which one are you?

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    Default Two subtypes of SLEs-ESTps: which one are you?

    ESTP:

    COORDINATOR(Se subtype)
    Seems clever, impulsive, seemingly concealing within him a latent threat. Far from being easygoing and appeasable. In reality, he can be sharp, sufficiently aggressive, and persistent. Can hold a grudge and be sufficiently resourceful to make the life of his ill-wishers become intolerable. Has a contrasting and unpredictable character. With those whom he loves can be kind, tender, even sentimental. Possesses a sense of humor, that easily molds into sarcasm and caustic irony. Talkative, charming, witty, critical and sharp. Likes epithets and slang expressions. His movements are springy and fast. Gait is somewhat waddling, with knees slightly bent, which yields a stealthy feline semblance. Has a characteristic evaluating gaze with slight squint. Usually looks after his health, periodically takes up physical sport, exercise of gymnastics. Dresses expensively and with taste. Most often he makes a bright impression of a self-assured and prospering person.

    ORGANIZER (Ti subtype)
    Leaves an impression of calm strength and self-assurance. Rational and consistent in his affairs. Hardworking and enduring. Usually he is cold-blooded, restrained, collected and unfazed, but in moments of irritation does not conceal his anger, which shows in his look and in sudden categorical gestures. When he is calm, he is polite and courteous, tough keeps his conversation partners at a distance. His humor is blunt and can be somewhat crude. Sometimes he has a fast moving, distrustful look that looks from under his eyebrows. Appearance is usually serious, somewhat guarded and alert. Gait and gestures are harmonious, flowing, and precise. Dresses somewhat monotonously, and strictly, although at times surprisingly brightly and extravagantly. Values quality in clothing, occasionally putting together sets from only a few items. In most cases has a tendency to not stand out. This applies both to how he behaves and how he dresses. Seems cold and inaccessible, even though he tries to be appropriate, even-tempered and well-wishing towards others. Holds himself with dignity.

    Extended SLE subtype descriptions: http://wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=SLE_subtypes


    I think those subtypes are much better than the subtypes described by Gulenko.

    By this token I'd be a Se one more than a Ti, although it also depends on the environment: in comparison to the ESTps I know @ university, I'm a Se subtype, but in comparison to the ghetto ESTps, I'm super Ti.
    Last edited by silke; 07-26-2017 at 12:14 AM. Reason: updated with translations
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    From this Daniel is both depending on his environment. He often seems to change depending on the company. For instance with me or my family he acts very , with his dad or his friends he's very
    All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster

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    i think i'm more of the subtype. certain characteristics of the subtype also fit. i dunno i guess it depends on who i'm with. when i really let go of myself i'm clearly . but in general i try to keep a appearance so people won't flee from me. when confronted with my more demeanour, some people find me too loud for their tastes but i just think they're pussy. :wink:

    i get that mostly from the gamma IRL and sometimes delta. "what happen to the guy i used to know " or (my fav) "stay as you were yesterday". honorable mentions: "you've changed"; "you two-faced bastard"; "you rat"; "people are so much nicer when you first meet them... ".

    i think growing up in a mostly gamma environment forced me to maybe tone down my personality, doubt myself and my own judgements. when i was 20 i broke out and was forever changed. yeah, maybe i'm more of the black sensing kind.
    IEI - the nasty kind...

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    Quote Originally Posted by oyburger
    From this Daniel is both depending on his environment. He often seems to change depending on the company. For instance with me or my family he acts very , with his dad or his friends he's very
    I act much more creative function around my family as well... but more so with people I do not feel very connected too.

    Is that how he is?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    ESTp Subtypes


    Sensory subtype: (The Coordinator)

    (Valentine Meged & Anatoly Ovcharov) The sensory subtype is witty and impulsive… while seemingly concealing within them latent threats they appear unappeasable. However, they are sharp, aggressive and persevering people. Notably resourceful, they are able to manifest vindictiveness in doses that make life for their ill-wishers simply intolerable. Their character appears full of contrasts and unpredictability. Towards those whom they love they are often tender, even sentimental. Their sense of humor easily incorporates sarcasm and caustic irony. Are talkative, charming, witty, critical and sharp, love epithets and slang expressions. Their movements are fast and gait centered, When walking their slightly bent knees provide them with an ingratiating feline resemblance. Appreciate life and tend to watch over their health, periodically exercising through sports/gymnastics. Dresses tastefully and expensively. Usually provide a bright impression of a self-assured and prospering person.

    (Victor Gulenko) Sharp, demonstrative, attacking style of behaviour. Expressive and expansive to the point of being aggressive. Feels at home in emergencies; find themselves in conflicts; can pressure people in order to rapidly introduce order. If conflicts do not occur, they can provoke some in order to then take the initiative into their own hands. Emotional and sociable, will want the attention of more than one person of the opposite sex. Women also display initiative in their acquaintances with men. This subtype is sinewy, mobile, often thin, has a well developed taste, is an epicure. In fashion are drawn to refinement and prestige.

    (Sexual behaviour) Demonstrative and behave unpredictably. Are sexually daring and energetic; animated in interaction and possessing feelings of humor. Are sexual and diverse in both moods and erotic reactions. Strongly emotional, are inclined to ignore the feelings and attitudes of other people and to consider their interests. An imperious and demanding partner, but can be thoughtful and affectionate. Find it difficult to restrain jealousy. Require an attentive, loyal, and reliable partner, whom will remain utterly submissive to their initiative.










    Logical subtype: (The Organizer)

    (Valentine Meged & Anatoly Ovcharov) The logical subtype constructs an impression of quite force and confidence for themselves. They are rational and sequential in affairs; hardworking and hardy. Usually appear cool, sustained and collected, however, in moments of irritation they express their fury in demonstratively sharp, absolute gestures. Within a quiet atmosphere they are kind and polite, while keeping the interlocutor at a distance. Their humor is sharp, sometimes rude, and they bare a quick, mistrustful glare from under their eyebrows. They’re kind but also serious and guarded. Their gait and gestures appear harmonious, smooth and precise. Tends to dress rather monotonously, however, from time to time can also clothe themselves brightly, even extravagantly. Appreciate quality in apparel and often creates many outfits from a few articles. Thus they show concern for both their behaviour and appearance; though they often seem cold and inaccessible they themselves try to appear proper, equal and benevolent, while maintaining their advantages.

    (Victor Gulenko) Prefer to remain in the shadows, not to demonstrate their aspirations, but constantly hold their hands on the pulse of all proceedings around them. Outwardly appears balanced and phlegmatic. Before acting, checks all versions of possible consequences and only then enters into the game. Distrustful and careful, skeptic, conservative and realistic. Because they are not very sociable, may appear to be introverted. If they have their aim on a victim, they act slowly, by the method of the "compressive ring".

    (Sexual behaviour) Tend to occupy a “wait and see attitude” as they are prone to doubt others feelings towards them. Their emotional expression may appear somewhat forced as they prefer to await the initiative of others; afterwards are tender and attentive with an aim of improving sexual techniques. Internally are sentimental; love uncommon adventures. Not quick to forget past offences. Have need of someone reasonable, flexible and diplomatic. Their partner should be affectionate, attractive, merry and optimistic.
    INFp-Ni

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    according to the above description my ex would be a Ti organizer subtype. he is definitely initally quiet and watches the dynamics so he can ascertain the power base.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    According to the descriptions that Misutii gave, I'm much more of a logical subtype.
    , Se-sub
    8w8-3w8-7w8 sx/sx

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herzy
    According to the descriptions that Misutii gave, I'm much more of a logical subtype.
    bullshit

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Quote Originally Posted by Herzy
    According to the descriptions that Misutii gave, I'm much more of a logical subtype.
    bullshit
    You know, because you've met me IRL and everything. You must have a crystal clear picture of my personality patterns etched into your grey matter, because of all those intimate conversations we've had IRL. I don't know a single person who knows me better than you. Congratulations, dipshit.
    , Se-sub
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    Thanks, that really made my day.

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    No problem.
    , Se-sub
    8w8-3w8-7w8 sx/sx

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    Default Re: ESTps: which subtype of those two are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    By this token I'd be a Se one more than a Ti, although it also depends on the environment: in comparison to the ESTps I know @ university, I'm a Se subtype, but in comparison to the ghetto ESTps, I'm super Ti.
    I agree; I know I can be seen as both in different situations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herzy
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Quote Originally Posted by Herzy
    According to the descriptions that Misutii gave, I'm much more of a logical subtype.
    bullshit
    You know, because you've met me IRL and everything. You must have a crystal clear picture of my personality patterns etched into your grey matter, because of all those intimate conversations we've had IRL. I don't know a single person who knows me better than you. Congratulations, dipshit.
    lol my ex used to say dipshit all the time too

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Default SLE-Ti

    Edit: What is this type like? How would I recognize them? Do you guys know any celebrity examples or could you please post some pictures for VI purposes? Also does this type display hidden aganda differently than the Se subtype? If so, how?

    Thank you : )
    Last edited by Christy B; 02-21-2008 at 12:18 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    what, like lokivanguard? like mario? I don't understand
    Iam wondering in real life what the SLE-Ti type acts like, looks like, and how they present their hidden agenda. I think I can recognize the Se subtype, but am not sure I would recognize Ti if I was faced with them.

    Maybe, if someone could tell me how they differ from the Se-subtype I would have something to compare them to. . .?
    EII 4w5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cudcat View Post
    Thanks. Who would be considered Ti?
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    Are they "goal oriented"? Would they be likely to set a goal in their career, or getting a girl/or guy, or getting some material thing like a specific car or house, and then telling people "I am going to do this thing" . . . and then doing it?

    Se types I have known seem less inclined to formally set goals, but maybe Ti is not the same.
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    um.... i dont know.. maybe a bit more strategic.. but it could be taken that Se subs are just as strategic in that they are able to act on weaknesses they see very well.

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    Ti is more like the ESTp description in the Articles forum. Phlegmatic enough to be (initially) mistaken for an introverted judger; truly the ISTj's mirror.

    Se is more like the ESTp description on socionics.com.

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    Oh - I found another - Maybe this one?

    http://oldforumlinkviewtopic.php?t=9...1cbc6d67266992

    In their struggles SLE will never yield initiative. If necessary they will wait for the proper moment to act and will never forsake the opportunity at hand. Their influence is governed by their power, often they don’t think, to themselves of other [strange] ways to solve problems. Acting with pressure they do not submit themselves to the success of a common cause but rather are capable of entirely taking the responsibility of leadership amongst themselves. They are inflexible and rigid in conducting other people towards the execution of activities/problems. Decisively they manifest their interest in work and are not tormented or distracted by pangs in their consciousness, even if, for the achievement of their goals, they must pinch, punish or offend someone. When that, which they desire, is impossible to reach quickly and directly, they seek alternate routes and without fail tend to attain one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christy B View Post
    Are they "goal oriented"? Would they be likely to set a goal in their career, or getting a girl/or guy, or getting some material thing like a specific car or house, and then telling people "I am going to do this thing" . . . and then doing it?

    Se types I have known seem less inclined to formally set goals, but maybe Ti is not the same.
    I set goals, but they're always very flexible, depending on what new events happen after I've set them. You're right in that I don't formally set goals; they tend to take the form of little informal thoughts that push me towards doing something.
    , Se-sub
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christy B View Post
    Iam wondering in real life what the SLE-Ti type acts like, looks like, and how they present their hidden agenda. I think I can recognize the Se subtype, but am not sure I would recognize Ti if I was faced with them.

    Maybe, if someone could tell me how they differ from the Se-subtype I would have something to compare them to. . .?
    Right, evidently no one who has posted here has given satisfactory descriptions for a Ti subtype and for a Se subtype. They're useless turds. Fabio amongst others have posted subtype descriptions for the SLE before. Here's a link to the thread about SLE subtypes.

    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    why are you showing sergei ganin's bullshit? nearly all of these are wrong.
    Are you referring to socionics.com (owned by Ganin), in which case you're provided the wrong link or to socionics.us (owned by Rick), in which case you're slagging off Rick, not Ganin?

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    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ead.php?t=7322


    Sensory- logical ekstravert: LEADER
    Appearance SLE is very diverse. This type of personality is not always simple for visual diagnostics as type Eie. It is possible to isolate these common features:
    Cold, evaluating view, sufficiently tenacious, entire noticing, but with the light haze or the languishing eyes, which imparts to it at times the expression of innocence, romanticism or pensiveness. Smile SLE does not always correspond to the expression of eyes; therefore it can appear stretched. Most frequently it smiles on the specific occasion, but not in order to arrange to itself.
    Motions well coordinated, harmonious, although somewhat irregular can be. Gait usually is smooth, is confident, is flexible, "cat". It is noticeable that man cans himself tax, to emphasize the merits of its body. SLE knows how to easily bear its body, even having significant weight. It dresses, as a rule, with the taste, it loves expensive, rare things. Style on each day of business or sport.
    If in a good mood - it is weakened and oars. In the poor mood of lip they are compressed, view sullenly. Poses moderately flattened, gestures important-looking, willingly demonstrates force and confidence in itself. It is time it is impatient, with the unexpected drops in the mood: first it is impulsive and cuttings, then it is ironic and affectionate with the notes of intimacy in the voice.

    COORDINATOR
    Sensory subtype seems by person ingenious, impulsive, who conceals the concealed threat and by no means reasonable. In actuality it is sharp, sufficiently aggressive and persistent. It can be rancorous and it is sufficient to resourceful in order to make life of the svikh ill-wishers of that of simply not tolerated. Has a nature contrasting and unpredictable. With those, whom it loves, it is periodically is very affectionate and even it is sentimental. It possesses such feeling of humor, which easily passes into the sarcasm or the caustic irony. Is talkative, obayatelen, it is ingenious, critical and cuttings, it loves epithets and slang expressions. Its motions are elastic and rapid, gait only waddle, elbows are slightly bent with walking, which gives cat ingratiating tones to it. Is characteristic the evaluating view with light prishchurom. Usually it follows its health, it is periodically occupied by sport or gymnastics. It dresses dearly and with the taste. The bright impression of confident in itself, flourishing person usually is produced.

    ORGANIZER
    Logical subtype leaves the impression of calm force and confidence in itself. It is rational and sequential in the matters. It is industrious and hardy. It is usually cold-blooded, sustained and imperturbable, but into the minutes of irritation it does not hide its fury, which is manifested in the view and the sharp, categorical gestures. In the calm state it is polite, amiable, although it holds collocutor on a certain distance. Its humor of cuttings is rather rough. In it there is rapid, distrustful view from under the eyebrows. Form usually is serious, is alerted. Gait and gestures are harmonious, are smooth and are clear. Somewhat monotonous dresses, and it is strict, although with the times of unexpectedly thrust or it is extravagant. It values qualitative clothing, rarely creating ensembles from a few things. In the majority of the cases it has a tendency too not to be separated. This relates both to the behavior and to the clothing. It seems cold and inaccessible, although he tries to be correct, flat and benevolent. It is held with the merit.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Default SLE-Ti subtype romantic behaviour

    This is probably Gulenko, but I don't know.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wikisocion
    (Sexual behaviour) Tend to occupy a “wait and see attitude” as they are prone to doubt others feelings towards them. Their emotional expression may appear somewhat forced as they prefer to await the initiative of others; afterwards are tender and attentive with an aim of improving sexual techniques. Internally are sentimental; love uncommon adventures. Not quick to forget past offences. Have need of someone reasonable, flexible and diplomatic. Their partner should be affectionate, attractive, merry and optimistic.
    Link

    Sounds like Victim to me. Thoughts from Aggressors and Victims alike?

    Herzy, as an SLE-Ti, what do you reckon? Does this sound like you?
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baby View Post
    It makes sense if you've ever seen their interactions with Fe-IEI.
    Can you elaborate? (What are those interactions like?)
    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
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    omg baby, that Ti-ESTp sounds just like a sheep, LOL

    I would die before I was in that situation. Alternatively, the level of conversation between me and the IEIs I associate myself with is far better. I'm sorry, I just don't operate like that. This guy is too indecisive.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    omg baby, that Ti-ESTp sounds just like a sheep, LOL

    I would die before I was in that situation. Alternatively, the level of conversation between me and the IEIs I associate myself with is far better. I'm sorry, I just don't operate like that. This guy is too indecisive.
    Weak Fi could cause one to be unsure of their own likes and dislikes, but I think some SLE's can try to make things the way they want them anyways. I think it would depend on who they're dealing with?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    Weak Fi could cause one to be unsure of their own likes and dislikes, but I think some SLE's can try to make things the way they want them anyways. I think it would depend on who they're dealing with?
    Oh come of it! I know my own likes and dislikes perfectly! I thought the SLE was assertive! Not some weakling who didn't really know what they wanted out of life!
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    I don't think the ESTp in baby's example is being indecisive. ESTp's are decisive, but cooperative in order to get things moving. Aggressive - appropriate use of Se.

    OTOH, the ENTp's I know are aggressive about pushing people to do what the ENTp wants to do, with very little regard for what the group wants. We either do what they want, or the ENTp gets sullen and dismissive. Infantile - inappropriate use of Se.

    I've never known an SLE to worry about whether they are perceived as a weakling... but ILE's worry about it all the time, often over-doing aggression because Se is a lesser understood function. ENTp's are overly passive (Fi) when Se would be more productive and overly aggressive (Se) when Fi would be most appropriate.

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    My SLE mom tends to try to push others to do what she wants with no concept of what they want, and I've attributed that to weak Fi. The things she wants are usually related to Si though... where to eat, etc. Or she wants them to run errands for her. And sometimes it's related to wanting Fe.
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    I like it when someone takes the emotional initiative, as in they make it clear that I am welcome to initiate other things. So yeah, the description sounds about right.

    Anyways, Auvi's conversation made me laugh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    omg baby, that Ti-ESTp sounds just like a sheep, LOL

    I would die before I was in that situation. Alternatively, the level of conversation between me and the IEIs I associate myself with is far better. I'm sorry, I just don't operate like that. This guy is too indecisive.
    Dude, get over yourself already. Everyone already knows that you think you're a RAWR TUFF 1337 D0M1NAT0R, so you don't need to keep beating a dead horse. Literally no one cares that you think you're all that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Oh come of it! I know my own likes and dislikes perfectly! I thought the SLE was assertive! Not some weakling who didn't really know what they wanted out of life!
    Unless a $10 ticket to a movie is all someone wants out of life, then you have no idea what you're talking about.
    , Se-sub
    8w8-3w8-7w8 sx/sx

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    Joy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herzy View Post
    Dude, get over yourself already. Everyone already knows that you think you're a RAWR TUFF 1337 D0M1NAT0R, so you don't need to keep beating a dead horse. Literally no one cares that you think you're all that.
    I don't take the stuff Ezra says like that, and it amazes me that people confuse the stuff he says for trying to impress people or trying to sound tough. (And these misunderstandings are another reason why I think Gamma may make more sense for him than Beta.)
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    He seems like a positivist to me though, and an extrovert. atm I tend to think SEE makes the most sense. If not, then LIE.
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    Yeah, neither of those seems quite right to me, either.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    I don't take the stuff Ezra says like that, and it amazes me that people confuse the stuff he says for trying to impress people or trying to sound tough.
    Ezra's is trying to sound tough to himself, not us. He's fighting internal anxiety stemming from a fear of ridicule, which just makes him seem aggressive while communicating with others. He's battling himself, not us.

    Anger masks fear. Preemptive aggression wards off attackers. Neither 'strategy' is an application of Se.

  37. #37
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    Ha! I knew I was good in Fi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Herzy View Post
    Dude, get over yourself already. Everyone already knows that you think you're a RAWR TUFF 1337 D0M1NAT0R, so you don't need to keep beating a dead horse. Literally no one cares that you think you're all that.
    Dude, like totally. I mean, man, it's like... fuck man! Totally fuckin'... I mean what the fuck!

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    I don't take the stuff Ezra says like that, and it amazes me that people confuse the stuff he says for trying to impress people or trying to sound tough. (And these misunderstandings are another reason why I think Gamma may make more sense for him than Beta.)
    Why is Joy the only person who understands my behaviour?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baby View Post
    That dialogue was just about going to the fucking movies, not about getting "what you want out of life." I don't know where you're getting this idea that SLEs are bent on imposing their own desires on others 24/7, on all the mundane affairs of life and beyond. This simply is not the case and if most IEIs were to meet such a person, they would be outright repulsed. Matters of business/career path/"getting what you want out of life"? Sure. Social matters/matters of love? Not so much.
    Right, okay, a misunderstanding. I always took the IEI for someone who 'gave direction in life to the SLE', which really made me doubt SLE. I didn't realise it was only to do with love and social matters. Of course, I know exactly where I'm going with my life (to successville), exactly what I want to do (law), and exactly what I want to get out of it. (MONEY MONEY MONEY). However, when it comes to love and relationships etc., I am clueless.

    SLEs in general tend to give up the reins in these little social affairs and in consequently those greater affairs of love and relationships. These are the domains of the IEI. The Russian descriptions nail this dynamic pretty squarely, and it's no source of shame or grief for most SLEs. They pretty willingly give up dominion over the "relationship" to the ethical type - it's just not their area of focus.
    Thanks, this clears things up for me.

    That said, I think what Joy said about your possibly being Gamma makes sense in view of what you're saying. I could see maybe ISFj making more sense for you.
    Errr, I couldn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baby View Post
    Those could work, although I think I remember him always complaining about club atmospheres and loudness and laughter associated with Beta-quadra dynamics and whatnot, which made me lean towards ESI > SEE (who tend not to mind that sort of thing as much).
    Why would SEEs be more okay with it than ESIs?

    Quote Originally Posted by zenbrat View Post
    Ezra's is trying to sound tough to himself, not us. He's fighting internal anxiety stemming from a fear of ridicule, which just makes him seem aggressive while communicating with others. He's battling himself, not us.

    Anger masks fear. Preemptive aggression wards off attackers. Neither 'strategy' is an application of Se.
    Errr, yeah. You don't know me.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Oh come of it! I know my own likes and dislikes perfectly! I thought the SLE was assertive! Not some weakling who didn't really know what they wanted out of life!
    This has nothing to do with being assertive. In Baby's example the ESTp wasn't being submissive, he was simply responding positively to the INFp's Ni. I've noticed that, for example, ESTps don't really look up information before doing something, like seeing a movie, therefore without Ni they can waste lots of time and money seeing boring/stupid movies. INFps on the other hand will check imdb.com and rottentomatoes and other information outlets beforehand so are usually better able to decide what movie would be good/enjoyable vs. a waste of time. An ESTp that refuses to acknowledge the benefit of an INFp's Ni in these matters is not "assertive" but stupid.
    INFp-Ni

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baby View Post
    Well what are the SEEs that you know like? IME, they don’t shy away from that sort of thing at all as a group. With ESIs it’s more of a toss-up. Some can tolerate it pretty well and some despise that sort of atmosphere.
    Fair enough; I see your point.

    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    I don't know if you are joking, but, what do you mean by "good"?

    if you are truly confident about Fi-related matters, then you being SLE doesn't make any sense.
    I don't know what makes sense any more. My introspection skills are so shite one day I can see myself as one type and have evidence for it; the next I can see myself as a different type and have evidence for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by misutii View Post
    This has nothing to do with being assertive. In Baby's example the ESTp wasn't being submissive, he was simply responding positively to the INFp's Ni. I've noticed that, for example, ESTps don't really look up information before doing something, like seeing a movie, therefore without Ni they can waste lots of time and money seeing boring/stupid movies. INFps on the other hand will check imdb.com and rottentomatoes and other information outlets beforehand so are usually better able to decide what movie would be good/enjoyable vs. a waste of time. An ESTp that refuses to acknowledge the benefit of an INFp's Ni in these matters is not "assertive" but stupid.
    In the example conversation Baby came up the SLE's wishy-washy "I dunno, I guess so... whatever you want to do" attitude as extremely annoying. Herzy took it the wrong way. So did Baby. I'm sick of this shit that people place on me about wanting to be tough. If they see me as tough fair enough, but fuck off when you're discussing my self-perception; I'm not interested in what you think about what I think about myself; I'm interested in what you think about me and what I think about myself. No one has access to my head except me.

    By the way, that is bullshit. I used to check Empire before seeing a film, then decided it influenced my views on the film as I was watching it, so I started to go and see films I knew were going to be good, or at least ones critics were raving about. I will never go and see a film impulsively, and my judgment is almost always correct (regarding whether or not it had potential). I will not let someone else dictate going to see a film that wastes my money because it's bad. NI THANKYOU
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by esper View Post
    It confuses me, however, that I have heard alot about SLE's hesitating due to confidence, although it seems an Se-Ti dominant wouldn't do that, would have assertive (Se) understanding (Ti). How do we reconcile that?
    ??

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