Officer and Batman

[Gilly]

The Officer-Batman relationship is an archetype in British literature, and culture in general, that is based on ranking in the British Army. The Officers each have a specially assigned recruit or operative who is essentially a side kick. This is the archetype that many relationships depicted in modern culture, such as Batman and Robin, or really any hero/sidekick pair, are based on. The relationship is one of respect, what with the Batman being lower in rank. But at the same time, it is of significant importance emotionally and personally in that the officer has many responsibilities, and the Batman has to be there to keep the Officer in good spirits through thick and thin.


Classic examples in modern entertainmen of the Officer-Batman relationship:

-Frodo and Sam in The Lord of the Rings Trilogy
-Lieutenant Dan and Forrest in Forrest Gump
-Harry and Ron in the Harry Potter series
-Tony and Manny in Scarface
-Herb Brooks and Craig Patrick in Miracle

I think this relationship exemplifies any dual relationship: two partners, equally acknowledging their strengths and weaknesses, and cooperating in accordance with them in order to acheive their goal in the best way possible. However, I think the nature of the Officer-Batman relationship in particular is one most like the ExTx - IxFx dual relationships: one performs the majority of the practical tasks, while the other offers emotional recharge. In particular, it seems to exemplify the two ENTx-ISFx couples: one does the majority of the big picture thinking and stratgizing while the other takes care of the "little things" and makes things run smoothly. With the emphasis on status based on position and the maintenance of the emotional aspect of the relationship being of particular importance, I would say that it fits the Gamma quadra best, and is probably best displayed by the archetype LIE-ESI dual pair.

Any thoughts?

[Creepy-bg]

I wonder if LIE- ESI duality is perhaps the one represented in US culture. Maybe the pairing reflects the macrotype of the culture it comes from.... I'm trying to think of examples from Brit or other media, but none are coming to mind right away.

[Creepy-bg]

How about Sherlock Holmes and Watson? what were they're types?

[Joy]

Peter said at one point that Sherlock Holmes is supposed to be ISTj.

[Creepy-bg]

wait... I think I confused your analysis somewhere

Oh well, nevermind

[Gilly]

Sherlock Holmes is the stereotypical ESTj.

[Joy]

wouldn't know, never read the books

[Creepy-bg]

neither have I... I did see that one TNG episode though

[Gilly]

I haven't either I'm taking the Russians at their word: Sherlock Holmes is one of their "hallmark" repesentatives for ESTj.

[Creepy-bg]

never take Russians at their word... or the next thing you know you'll have a Lenin statue in your front yard

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Joy]

To me the 'little things' ARE the practical tasks.

<3

Very important practical tasks, and it's priceless to have someone there to see that these tasks are accomplished (either by doing them or delegating them to the ENTx or someone else to do). Similarly, the ENTx may have an idea of the "big picture" in a sense, but he needs the Fe/Fi from the ISFx to make it all worth it, so in a sense, the ISFx is responsible for the "big picture" as well, just in a different sense.

[Gilly]

I was leaning more towards thinking of practical tasks as, say, running the family business, doing the "big picture" thinking, etc. If you think about the stereotypical ENTj-ISFj dual relationship, they both have tasks that are practical in nature, but are in different "arenas," so to speak.

[Joy]

Maybe... the extrovert often does the "big picture" thinking and the sensor usually handles the "practical" things in dual pairs.

[Creepy-bg]

I think each person sees what they do as the practical, big picture, tasks and what the other does as something else (but equally important)

[Joy]

they should make a sherlock holmes movie

[Dioklecian]

The Officer-Batman relationship is an archetype in British literature, and culture in general, that is based on ranking in the British Army. The Officers each have a specially assigned recruit or operative who is essentially a side kick. This is the archetype that many relationships depicted in modern culture, such as Batman and Robin, or really any hero/sidekick pair, are based on. The relationship is one of respect, what with the Batman being lower in rank. But at the same time, it is of significant importance emotionally and personally in that the officer has many responsibilities, and the Batman has to be there to keep the Officer in good spirits through thick and thin.


Classic examples in modern entertainmen of the Officer-Batman relationship:

-Frodo and Sam in The Lord of the Rings Trilogy
-Lieutenant Dan and Forrest in Forrest Gump
-Harry and Ron in the Harry Potter series
-Tony and Manny in Scarface
-Herb Brooks and Craig Patrick in Miracle

I think this relationship exemplifies any dual relationship: two partners, equally acknowledging their strengths and weaknesses, and cooperating in accordance with them in order to acheive their goal in the best way possible. However, I think the nature of the Officer-Batman relationship in particular is one most like the ExTx - IxFx dual relationships: one performs the majority of the practical tasks, while the other offers emotional recharge. In particular, it seems to exemplify the two ENTx-ISFx couples: one does the majority of the big picture thinking and stratgizing while the other takes care of the "little things" and makes things run smoothly. With the emphasis on status based on position and the maintenance of the emotional aspect of the relationship being of particular importance, I would say that it fits the Gamma quadra best, and is probably best displayed by the archetype LIE-ESI dual pair.

Any thoughts?

I don't think that is especially British, look at Sancho Pancha and Don Quixote.

[Gilly]

The concept is obviously not uniquely British, but the British Army was the first to assign officers a special attendant ("batman"), so the archetype is originally British.

[Expat]

I haven't either I'm taking the Russians at their word: Sherlock Holmes is one of their "hallmark" repesentatives for ESTj.

I have read a few of the books.

I can see Sherlock Holmes as ESTj. As for Dr. Watson -- I'm not sure that their relationship is of duality. He could be ISTp for instance.

[Kristiina]

How about Sherlock Holmes and Watson? what were they're types?

I recently saw a russian version of it, which is supposed to be the most accurate screen-version ever made. Of course I typed them as well. According to that, Sherlock is an INTp (bordering ENTp is some sense) and Watson is a very clear ISTj.


PS! Officer and Batman was such a confusing thread name... I thought it was about some anime series of something.

never take Russians at their word... or the next thing you know you'll have a Lenin statue in your front yard

hahahahaaaa

[Gilly]

Brilliant deduction, Watson!

That spells to me.

Holmes - ESTj
Watsom - INTj

Illusionaries, perhaps?

[Dioklecian]

Well, the author of those books was ESTJ in my opinion. So it makes sense if the main character is ESTJ (Mark Twain wrote a brilliant satire of Holmes and from the satire, I at least got the impression of an ESTJ). As to Watson, somewhere I saw him typed as ISFP and I agree with that.

As to the british installing the military structure you describe, I would have to disagree. It was common practice since ancient times for military commanders to have what was called an "arms' bearer" or words to that effect.

[Gilly]

Well whatever. The English coined the term, so there's not much we can do about it now, now is there?

[Dioklecian]

Well whatever. The English coined the term, so there's not much we can do about it now, now is there?

I see what you mean , however, if you want a comment on your suggestion that this particular relationship describes duality, I would have to disagree. I think it describes relationships of supervision. One person having the authority, and being responsible with it as well as providing for his supervisee. Duality tends to be much more equal, and there isn't much respct in it, unless the specific type requires it.

Before the british system (and language) spread around the world, it was common for the "batman" to be a servant and quite often he was simply a slave.