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Thread: A bitter guy?

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    Default A bitter guy?

    On this page http://www.mcmanweb.com/article235.htm
    i read a story from a guy telling he´s an INFJ. I doubt it though. Considering his firm values that he is talking about and which I cannot say else than that I share them, though not in the way he tells them, how may he be someone to show other people his way of living, it should be within his values as well. But, since he feels disgusted he can´t. However, his depression may be of other reasons which I highly assume, which he wouldn´t want to admit as long as he can focus reasons to other people´s behaviour and lack of values. Which type is he, with or without his possible "true" (bipolar) depression? I have emphasized some of his central point of views as bold text.

    ""Greg (June 27, 2003): Missing a point. I am an INFJ and often depressed. I have not been diagnosed as bipolar, but I am often introverted and depressed. A point that seems to be missed here is that Idealists - that is to say mystics and dreamers - are not like the other 99 percent of the population because we DO see a different perspective and that our depression stems from the inability to relate to the general VALUES of the mass population.

    As an intelligent and creative artist, visionary, thinker and compassionate human, I find most extroverts obnoxious, self-centered narcissists who have little respect for topics which do not serve them in some way. Although introverts are considered withdrawn, and idealists considered dreamers, my sense is that we simply don't share the same values as the majority. An example is my compassion for nature and animals. I choose to be vegetarian out of compassion and because is makes sense in many practical and healthful ways. My inability to express this choice joyfully without condemnation from those who want to hold on to their habits, their addiction to flesh, and weakness to change only places me into another of life's minority categories along with artist and visionary. Essentially, ANY change to the status quo (majority rules, herd mentality) is guarded by the extroverted narcissists who want to maintain their lifestyles whether they are intelligent or not.

    Idealists BECOME depressed after years of not caring about the simple-mindedness of sports, trivia, pop culture and fashion, but being surrounded by it every day like a disease. In fact, we would like to go beyond the excuses of why we need another war or why we can't feed the hungry or stop burning the rainforests or killing 10 million animals a day for consumption... we aren't the ones waving American flags and buying Pepsi or hot dogs. We want a peaceful non-invasive world where everyone has a fair share - not a world where 2% of the wealthiest people own 70 percent of the resources.

    So, to view idealists as bipolar or ill in some way is to miss the simple point that we ARE NOT like others and do not want to be. The advice that we would be better off somehow by getting out more often and mingling with the very people we can't relate to makes no sense at all. Should I wish to go to a bar and watch the game along with a bunch of egotistical good old boys while they unconsciously stuff hamburgers into their faces and root for some overpaid moron running with a ball? Are we really an advanced civilization?

    I stay away from these people because they disgust me. Otherwise, I may as well get a lobotomy and become a rancher who owns a baseball team - or a logger that cuts down natural habitats so I can ship logs to Japan, or perhaps a lobbyist for the insurance industry who can keep people from affording healthcare. No, it's not the Idealists who are sick - we're just the ones pointing out the sickness"
    Wonder why and if I have to be an INTJ or how to do the best of it.

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    He sounds INFj to me. Combine weak Se with weak Ti and what do you get? Might be INTj too though. Think of INFjs as being like INTjs. Often they are just as rigid in their value systems as INTjs are in their logical systems. However this particular form of depression seems very much like a Ti with Fi role function hitting it over the head or Fi with Ti role function fighting one another.

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    Edited for gayness.

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    Maybe not but I think each type manifests it's own 'version' of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Transigent
    "Psychological type" is much different then who you actually ARE. This guy has a problem with certain PEOPLE, and NOT certain TYPES.
    This is absolutely true. Recently I have been considering if my true "Psycologcial type" is actually ISTP, even though I seem to be more ENTP.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    He seems to more like an ENFj. He seems a bit too vitriolic to be an INFj, even when one consider personal experiences.

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    I think there's a lot of projection going on in that INFJ's(?) diatribe. I bet s/he's as narcissistic and self-absorbed as the people who are accused of being that way. The narcissists I've been around tend to do that, they ascribe all of their negative traits onto other people around them as a psychological defense against having to believe they are imperfect in anyway.

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    Default It has been scary sometimes because when she have felt hurt

    http://the16types.info/types-INFJ.php states:
    "Disorder Perspective The personality disorder which is a pathological representation of the Sensitive personality type is the Avoidant Personality Disorder.

    Basic belief: I may get hurt. Thinking strategy Avoidance"

    In order to have a "valid" reason to stay away from other people at least subjectively, one way is to focus at what they lack and/or to focus at the the self, whether it is "better" or not..

    I know a 26 yo INFJ woman who is very much into talking about ideals and is almost self accusing like if she knows she has bought a t-shirt that may have been made by a low paid worker in a far away country. (So she buys second hand clothes as well). I understood eventually that some negative traits that she "accused" me (=told me, in a more upset mood) to have actually were her own whether I had them too or not.
    However, she has had a little of duality in her, being with other types of people than her own type more than close to her own type. Which she didn´t really realize until knowing her for more than a year. It took so long for me to break through the manipulative verbal impact she had made onto me, as the rhetorical person she was.

    And because she did not want to show other people too much of her real inner side of feelings, deep thoughts and ideals she had another profile outwards, maybe a bit of an ESTP-shadow being pressed out as she compressed the INFJ-side inwards. She has been quite manipulative earlier and mood changing, almost like adapting her mood to different age-types and attitudes depending on the situation. She may avoid listening to her telephone messages, not reading her emails for a long time and not paying bills on time although she has a job. Part of this may be after being an incest victim as she have told about. Most of the time been very clever, showing logic wisdom without first analysing, therefore some spots have occured in her reasoning which I, as an INTJ have tracked sooner than her. But also she has behaved in different ways. Sometimes, depending on the situation and the time of the day, her mood has shifted into younger type of high-intellect or bad-mood, as of a teenager. Also when her mood has changes, her voice have changed more than what is usual within a somewhat normal and homogeneous personality.

    It has been scary sometimes because when she have felt hurt or vulnerable more than she should, she´s been even threatening (let me tell you, then have looked almost "demon obsessed".. not funny..)
    or begging like a little child a few times. She is the most complicated INFJ I have known, with these large shifts seen. She will soon have therapy.
    Wonder why and if I have to be an INTJ or how to do the best of it.

  9. #9

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    I think you're right that the guy who wrote the original message is more avoidant than narcissistic. Caring about the welfare of animals and society typically isn't narcissistic behaviour and he does seem to feel a lot of anger at his inability to relate well to other people. I've been thinking about personality disorders and quadras. In a screwed up kind of way, I could see a borderline(ESFP) becoming interested in a schizoid(INTP) and an ISFJ (dependant) being attracted to an ENTJ (sadistic). Something to ponder I guess.

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