Results 1 to 24 of 24

Thread: Narrator? (Asking/Declaring Reinin Dichotomy)

  1. #1
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,983
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Narrator? (Asking/Declaring Reinin Dichotomy)

    Here's a tough one for you.

    If I am so INTj, what ever that's supposed to mean, then why am I a heavy Narrator?

    Those of you who have been reading my posts should know that I am allergic to question marks. I hate asking questions. It makes me feel like an obnoxious brat. I always feel that asking questions puts me in a subordinate position. It goes completely against my instincts.

    In real life I am no different from on these boards. I never ever ask questions. Even when I am faced with a problem at work, or university, and I approach someone for help, the form of communication I choose is as follows: "Hey - I've got a problem here. This and this here is troubling me. I was hoping you could help in this and this way."

    Am I interpretting the term 'Narrator' wrongly? Who knows what is going on?

    TACITURN (N:1,2 S:3,4):
    1.Tend to use interrogative intonations – much of what they say sounds like a question.
    2.Inclined to repeat a question asked of fthem, or to voice other questions (eg, “Where should I start?”) before answering. These questions are not truly asked of anyone, just voiced, and often used to help the 'flow' of a conversation.
    3.Prefer speaking in 'question and answer' dialogues, and may actively (though perhaps not consciously) work to turn the conversation to this form. They may have a real or imaginary interlocutor with whom they carry out this dialogue.
    4.When interrupted with a question while speaking, will answer immediately and then return to where they left off, and often feel compelled to interrupt in such a manner.
    5.(when asked a question) “Is there more than one way to do that? Of course. But what is the best way? Well, [...]”
    NARRATOR (N:3,4 S:1,2):
    1.Inclined to speak in a declarative manner – even their questions may sound like statements.
    2.Usually use questions solely for the purpose of receiving an answer.
    3.Prefer speaking in 'alternating monologues', wherein each speaker takes turns speaking, and may attempt (though perhaps not consciously) to convert the conversation to this form.
    4.When interrupted with a question while speaking, they ask the questioner wait until they are finished speaking. They may also ask the questioner to 'be patient', and subsequently work the answer to the question into their speech. Accordingly, they prefer to wait until the speaker has finished before asking questions.
    5.“On my way to St Ives, I met a man with seven wives. These seven wives had seven sacks, and the seven sacks held seven cats, and these seven cats had seven kits. Kits, cats, sacks, wives – How many were going to St Ives?”

  2. #2
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,633
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I'm like that, Labcoat.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  3. #3
    oyburger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    somewhere overthere
    Posts
    2,528
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    lol As a kid I asked questions non-stop. My relatives used to pay me money just to make me shut up for a period of time.
    As an adult I no longer do this for many of the reasons labcoat indicated, it puts you in a submissive position and makes you sound like you might not know what you're talking about.
    However, when my childish self takes over, as it occasionally does, the non-stop question phase returns. I only turn this onto those who I know that even if I annoy them to death won't be upset with me.

    On a happier note, repressing my urge to ask has given me the chance to figure out a lot of problems I otherwise wouldn’t have.
    All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster

  4. #4
    snegledmaca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,900
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Have you considered ISTj? There is something about your style I find relaxing.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    USA.
    TIM
    INTj
    Posts
    4,497
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    what you described doesnt sound like a narrator. Your questions sound very aware of the other person. Narrator's questions sound like statements, more self centered, because their questions are more geared toward getting an answer. Taciturns do this too but I feel the general attitude might be more open. For example if I'm asking a question, even though i expect an answer, I will wait for the other person to respond, or will stop right away if they answer negatively. I think a narrator would talk a bit before answering questions, or ask questions without a pause. When I'm talking to a narrator I feel like they are going to mow me over; so i am usually silent when talking to one.

  6. #6
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,633
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca
    Have you considered ISTj? There is something about your style I find relaxing.
    Righ. I also generally agree with him too much

    @Isha: Narrator, supposedly.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  7. #7
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Narrator?
    am I the only one who is somewhat amused by this?
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  8. #8
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,633
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Isha
    So what's the problem? UNless you're confusing me and you're actually Taciturn but supposed to be narrator.

    Stop being cryptic.

    My cognition is somewhat diminished at 5am.
    No, no, ESTp is supposed to be Narrator, and I don't think I am Taciturn! Do I sound Taciturn in my posts?
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  9. #9
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,633
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Isha
    No, you have always seemed like a Narrator. This is part of my confusion.
    I just used "supposedly" wrong
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  10. #10
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,983
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca
    Have you considered ISTj? There is something about your style I find relaxing.
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Righ. I also generally agree with him too much
    Thanks, that's awesome to hear. I'm afraid I'm abit too 'negativist' to be an ISTj though. Also, ISTj's are supposedly known for their kick-ass cleanliness and punctuality, which doesn't mix with me. I'm rather lax in those areas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ms.Kensington
    what you described doesnt sound like a narrator. Your questions sound very aware of the other person. Narrator's questions sound like statements, more self centered, because their questions are more geared toward getting an answer. Taciturns do this too but I feel the general attitude might be more open. For example if I'm asking a question, even though i expect an answer, I will wait for the other person to respond, or will stop right away if they answer negatively. I think a narrator would talk a bit before answering questions, or ask questions without a pause. When I'm talking to a narrator I feel like they are going to mow me over; so i am usually silent when talking to one.
    This is how I thought the dichotomy worked. But if it works like this, why do none of the descriptions explain it this way? I have to keep in mind the possibility that you (and me) have been seeing the effect of a number of different dichotomies working in conjunction with narrator. Lets not loose track of how difficult it is to observe the effects of a single dichotomy in people's behavioral make-up when it consists of dozens of them.

    For now I'd like to stick to the 'official' definitions that are based on observations rather than hunch.

    Let's throw in some more Narrator/Taciturn definitions:

    Quote Originally Posted by smilingeyes
    By the actions of this function an ordered flow of 'narrative' information turns into a disassembled, erratic, questioning 'taciturn' discussion, or playing with concepts.

    By the actions of this function a questioning, erratic, case by case 'taciturn' action turns into an ordered, uninterrupted flow of 'narrative' information.

    Taciturn/narrator type: Taciturn
    Has no complete, total system to guide it's life, but a number of selected items and ideas that it tries to fit together as best as it can. It tries to make sense of things, tries to solve inconsistencies. By its actions it turns 'extrovert' into 'introvert', something that is well defined into implications. It's speculative.

    Taciturn/narrator type: Narrator
    Has integrated his life into a sensible whole which it adapts into varying circumstances. It's collected and establishes a personal presence. Is willing to create seeming contradictions as long as they make sense to it personally. By its actions it turns 'introvert' into 'extrovert', something that has many possible effects and outcomes.
    Like anything smilingeyes writes it may just as well have been chinese.

  11. #11
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,983
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I remember reading somewhere that creative Se types have an immense fear of getting late, and that they are consequently incredibly punctual.

    am I the only one who is somewhat amused by this?
    I didn't get it at first

    I've been using the question mark an unusual lot this last day

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    110
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Where did all this narrator/taciturn stuff come from, and what talking style is SEI out of curiosity?

  13. #13

  14. #14
    aka Slacker Slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    North Korea
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    8,819
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Smiling Eyes explained this dichotomy to me this way:
    Slacker Mom wrote:
    OK here's a conversation my husband and I had last night. Introductory info - he bought a new welder recently.

    Husband sits down. "My new welder isn't working right." (Implied but not stated question is 'what's wrong with my welder?')

    I ask, "what isn't it doing?"

    He says something like "It doesn't make enough of an arc." Or something. I know nothing about welders. Something about an arc.

    I ask, "What would cause it to not do that? Not enough power? Didn't you say something about this welder being 'dual-power' or something?"

    *silence* He goes into the garage. I hear welding sounds.

    He comes in looking content and sits down. "It doesn't work as well on 110. It works better on 220."

    OK so he doesn't ask a single actual question - although he has implied questions. And I sit and ask question after question. How does this fit with him being taciturn and me being a narrator? I just don't get it. I think I do fit "narrator" generally but not so much with him.

    Also, why does he ask for my help about stuff like welders and carburators? He has an NeTi friend who actually knows how to weld.


    That's exactly how taciturn people operate. But he's not asking you for help, he's just stating facts. It's you who provides the meaning, the narrative, of what do those facts mean. Taciturn = statement of concrete external issues and wondering their meaning. Narrator = providing a concrete internalized frame of reference and pondering the abstract external facts about how it all applies, how to make the story work.
    Thread is here: http://the16types.no-ip.info/forums/...pic.php?t=7116

    I thought it was about who phrased what as a question and who phrased what as a statement.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

  15. #15
    snegledmaca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,900
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat
    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca
    Have you considered ISTj? There is something about your style I find relaxing.
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Righ. I also generally agree with him too much
    Thanks, that's awesome to hear. I'm afraid I'm abit too 'negativist' to be an ISTj though. Also, ISTj's are supposedly known for their kick-ass cleanliness and punctuality, which doesn't mix with me. I'm rather lax in those areas.
    Well that’s a first for me. Well, perhaps some are, but I think that’s more individual rather then type related. The one I know is very much not like that. Quite the opposite really. And famous for it. Famous for his messy room and famous for always being late. LSI-s can be very laid back, especially if they are young. A fine example of this type of LSI is Snoop Dog. He is like the spiting image of my friend.

  16. #16
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    He comes in looking content and sits down. "It doesn't work as well on 110. It works better on 220."
    That would be 120 and 240 volts.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  17. #17
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    That's exactly how taciturn people operate. But he's not asking you for help, he's just stating facts. It's you who provides the meaning, the narrative, of what do those facts mean. Taciturn = statement of concrete external issues and wondering their meaning. Narrator = providing a concrete internalized frame of reference and pondering the abstract external facts about how it all applies, how to make the story work.
    At face value, this would even suggest that taciturn = Te and narrator = Ti. But we know it's not the case.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  18. #18
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Some thoughts --

    First, even if we assume a totally static type-subtype situation, the dichotomy for Narrator/Taciturn would be very clear only for the split subtypes. For Diana, for example -- she's clearly Fi subtype of either ISFj or INFj IMO, and that would be enough to blur the dichotomy.

    Second, if we assume the "floating" type conception of Smilingeyes, what is relevant is not so much whether one is consistently a narrator or taciturn, but, in the case of eg INTj, whether one is consistently narrator-positive and taciturn-negative, rather than narrator-negative and taciturn-positive.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  19. #19
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Do you have a link to something that describes the difference between positive and negative use of the dichotomies?
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  20. #20
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    No, I meant the Positivist-Negativist dichotomies.

    According to this intepretation, an IJ will always be a Negativist when being Taciturn, that is, when in question-asking mode, it will be about clarifying what's still missing and what is to be done.

    By contrast, IPs are Negativist when being Narrators, and that is precisely the "Critic" behavior most typically associated with INTps, but also visible in ISFps.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  21. #21
    Kristiina's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Estonia, Tartu
    Posts
    4,021
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Narrator?
    am I the only one who is somewhat amused by this?
    You're not supposed to be contributing to the mood of the thread. It's unhealthy to use that much role function all the time.
    PS! Yes I'm amused, but it your post is irrelevant unless it was a hint that he's an asker/taciturn/interrogator.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

    Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
    New blog: http://having-a-kid.blogspot.com/

  22. #22
    Kristiina's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Estonia, Tartu
    Posts
    4,021
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    Smiling Eyes explained this dichotomy to me this way:
    Slacker Mom wrote:
    OK here's a conversation my husband and I had last night. Introductory info - he bought a new welder recently.

    Husband sits down. "My new welder isn't working right." (Implied but not stated question is 'what's wrong with my welder?')

    I ask, "what isn't it doing?"

    He says something like "It doesn't make enough of an arc." Or something. I know nothing about welders. Something about an arc.

    I ask, "What would cause it to not do that? Not enough power? Didn't you say something about this welder being 'dual-power' or something?"

    *silence* He goes into the garage. I hear welding sounds.

    He comes in looking content and sits down. "It doesn't work as well on 110. It works better on 220."

    OK so he doesn't ask a single actual question - although he has implied questions. And I sit and ask question after question. How does this fit with him being taciturn and me being a narrator? I just don't get it. I think I do fit "narrator" generally but not so much with him.

    Also, why does he ask for my help about stuff like welders and carburators? He has an NeTi friend who actually knows how to weld.


    That's exactly how taciturn people operate. But he's not asking you for help, he's just stating facts. It's you who provides the meaning, the narrative, of what do those facts mean. Taciturn = statement of concrete external issues and wondering their meaning. Narrator = providing a concrete internalized frame of reference and pondering the abstract external facts about how it all applies, how to make the story work.
    Thread is here: http://the16types.no-ip.info/forums/...pic.php?t=7116

    I thought it was about who phrased what as a question and who phrased what as a statement.
    This is an interesting example because it somewhat describes the difference between me and the INTp when we are trying to solve problems.

    INTp
    "The computer doesn't seem to be working. Mhhh."
    "I wonder why the computer doesn't work."
    "What's wrong with the computer?" (asks from himself)

    me (ENFj)
    "What?! The computer doesn't work!"
    "Honeeeey. The computer didn't start! What do I do?"
    "What's wrong with the computer?" (I ask from him)

    Maybe the main difference is that I use the questions as a way to bring the conversation/problem-solving to the next level. Questions are meant for answering by someone. For narrators, I think casual questions are just another way to state something and don't require an answer. There is absolutely no reason to suggest that "declarers" are incapable to ask questions that they need answered. They're not retarded or communicationally challenged.

    i.e. Slacker mom's husband started the discussion so Slacker mom could offer any ideas. Slacker mom herself used the questions to get enough input to start solving the problem.
    At least that's the only system I see within my pathetic amount of knowledge.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

    Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
    New blog: http://having-a-kid.blogspot.com/

  23. #23
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Narrator?
    am I the only one who is somewhat amused by this?
    You're not supposed to be contributing to the mood of the thread. It's unhealthy to use that much role function all the time.
    PS! Yes I'm amused, but it your post is irrelevant unless it was a hint that he's an asker/taciturn/interrogator.
    I don't care about what I'm "supposed to" be like.

    I find irony amusing, and pointing it out has absolutely nothing to do with my mood or anyone/thing else's.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  24. #24
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,983
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Both my understanding of the narrator dichotomy and my behavior the last few days have changed a bit.

    I am now indisputably a taciturn!

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •