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Thread: VI this guy please

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    Default VI this guy please

    A guy I know (and no, not me, for those who might have such ideas -- )

    I'm convinced of his type, so perhaps you can also tell me what you think he VIs as.



    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    ESFj?

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    ISTp. This isn't based on criteria of any Socionics forum or website. And I really am not completely certain, either. And by all that I mean-- it's a guess!

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    i was thinking ENFp/ISTp or something delta, actually, too.

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    EXFj
    IEI subtype

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    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    EXFj
    Agreed.
    All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster

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    I'm just surprised that EJ was seen as well as IP.

    The most common things people seem to seeing are F and Caregiving.

    Anyone else?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    I'm just surprised that EJ was seen as well as IP.

    The most common things people seem to seeing are F and Caregiving.

    Anyone else?
    vote from my roommate goes to ISFp/ESFj.

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    Is that an uncharacteristic facial expression? I can see based on that photo why people are saying he's an ethical type, but he sorta reminds me of this ISTj I used to know. Minus the strange facial expression.
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    Ok.

    He's a very clear ESFj IMO. He's very clearly rational and EJ, very Fe so that I was unsure whether he was ESFj or ENFj for a while, but he's Si not Ni -- in fact he shows the signs of Ni PoLR, behaves very Alpha when having a few drinks with friends around a table, and his most constant companion used to be an ISFp.

    That's the only picture I have of him, and a very natural expression.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    yeah, if that's a natural expression then he seems quite Fe, just based on his overall feel. It sorta looked like one of those goofy pictures where someone caught you off guard or something though, so I wasn't sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    It sorta looked like one of those goofy pictures where someone caught you off guard or something though, so I wasn't sure.
    Well it is that too, but that is an otherwise characteristic expression -- it's not as if he never showed Fe and did it only for the picture.

    The results confirm my conclusions about VI -- it gets it more right and more often than sheer chance would justify, but it can't be the only, or even main, input for typing.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    ESFj makes sense.


    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    It sorta looked like one of those goofy pictures where someone caught you off guard or something though, so I wasn't sure.

    okay, i actually don't think that's non-characteristic of ESFjs (that particular expression/smile thing.) i know another girl who i thought was ESFj as well who does the same thing. she is the busiest person i know. the ESFj guy (who makes the same face) is always sick or complaining about being sick. it's actually a very ESFj smile.

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    I didn't mean to say that the face doesn't look ESFj... just that he wouldn't necessarily be a Fe type if it was an uncharacteristic facial expression for him. I was trying to picture him with a straight face.
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    it's very strange to me that VI works as well as it does... i seem to have become somewhat more adept at it recently but i still don't understand how or why it works, and i really disagree with those people who type people definitively based on their VI.

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    Both my ESFj mother-in-law and my ISFp father-in-law make that face.

    I probably would have guessed ISFp but only because he's a guy of about the same age as my father-in-law with an expression he could have. Though my father-in-law generally has a look to his eyes like he got caught doing something wrong when he makes a face like that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    it's very strange to me that VI works as well as it does... i seem to have become somewhat more adept at it recently but i still don't understand how or why it works, and i really disagree with those people who type people definitively based on their VI.
    That's how I see it, too.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    it's very strange to me that VI works as well as it does... i seem to have become somewhat more adept at it recently but i still don't understand how or why it works, and i really disagree with those people who type people definitively based on their VI.
    That's how I see it, too.
    I've been thinking that VI'ing has something to do with Fe. I wouldn't say that I'm great at VI, but the entire concept of it is this, "I see him as the kind of person who would... ". And that's the Fe way of "stereotyping" people.

    VI works and it has always worked. Now we just have one new way of vocalizing our opinion about a person we barely knew. Inborn physical traits are more of a distraction than help. VI can be used as the main reason for typing someone, but only if you ignore physical features and include the entire body language (including body language when interacting with aggressive people/shy people/sexy people/boring people/etc).

    (ps! sorry for the off-topic. Unfortunately I saw the real type before the picture, so I couldn't objectively VI him anymore. I would have said "ENTp while in a good mood". There's something alpha about his posture and I'm barely familiar with ESFjs.)

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    i have absolutely no idea what kristiina is talking about regarding her VI philosophy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    I've been thinking that VI'ing has something to do with Fe. I wouldn't say that I'm great at VI, but the entire concept of it is this, "I see him as the kind of person who would... ". And that's the Fe way of "stereotyping" people.
    I think that this may be the way that Fe types VI people, but it's not how everyone does. We use the functions that we're most comfortable with.
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    V.I. is difficult because there isn't an exact critieria or set of measurements. The only conclusions we have are based on consensus of messageboard users and these are on a case-by-case basis. Of course, the Russians have better information, and from what I've casually translated from Russian messageboard users there are SOME measurements-- each complete with a long list of exceptions and hypocrises. Anyway, until we have better information our hunches will have to serve our purposes.

    Also, unless is human nature I don't believe it is related to V.I. people might be prone to expressing their thoughts and predictions of people's behaviour based their subject's appearance but every human forms initial perceptions of others based on appearance. This messageboard just happens to apply this phenomenon to a seperate system. And you know what? Good for us.

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    I've been actively looking for "extreme" cases where a person definitely does not VI - in pictures - as the type they otherwise seem to be due to traits, but so far I haven't found them.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    the best way to find faces that do not VI well would probably be to look for very mundane and inconspicuous looking people.

    for example, try VIing this guy:


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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    for example, try VIing this guy:
    ISXx
    All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster

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    Quote Originally Posted by oyburger
    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    for example, try VIing this guy:
    ISXx
    INFj. (But he's asian, so it's not the same. Also, he looks like one guy that I haven't managed to type yet. I suspect ENTp, but that would mean that they share Ne).

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    why do you say it's different just because the guy is asian?

    (btw, i don't know this guy so obviously i dont know his type. i just googled a random photo that looked pretty inconspicuous.)

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    He doesn't look 100% Asian, he's probably mixed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Ok.

    He's a very clear ESFj IMO. He's very clearly rational and EJ, very Fe so that I was unsure whether he was ESFj or ENFj for a while, but he's Si not Ni -- in fact he shows the signs of Ni PoLR, behaves very Alpha when having a few drinks with friends around a table, and his most constant companion used to be an ISFp.

    That's the only picture I have of him, and a very natural expression.
    My first impression was ENTP but ESFJ seems more accurate together with your description.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    why do you say it's different just because the guy is asian?
    It's partly because all asian guys look alike. As you know, we don't have much of a racial diversity in Estonia. I'm not used to trying to tell asian guys apart. I agree that he looks like a mixed race.
    ...but it's mostly because of the cultural differences. Facial expressions tell me MUCH less because they have different meaning in a different culture.


    VI says absolutely nothing! Maybe in their culture, she's the outcast, the odd one out. Maybe she's the most popular and the most respected person. Maybe she's a wannabe. Maybe she has "the sexiest" body language (lots of Si). Maybe that body language is considered bad in Zulu. The clothes, facial expression, facial traits say nothing!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    Maybe in their culture, she's the outcast, the odd one out. Maybe she's the most popular and the most respected person. Maybe she's a wannabe.
    what the hell does any of that have to do with anything?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    Maybe in their culture, she's the outcast, the odd one out. Maybe she's the most popular and the most respected person. Maybe she's a wannabe.
    what the hell does any of that have to do with anything?
    do you have any idea how much that changes a persons behavior?! Like ANY?! What the hell? Like you were born yesterday or something.

    Facial expressions, body language and clothing style depend highly on a persons social position. Non-popular people are more likely to try to act according to super-ego block, but they have a weaker and less-consistent personality compared to their super-ego type. Also, people seem more likely to become introverted, sensing, pseudo-thinking and perceiving. pseudo-thinking just means that they stress their "thinking abilities" and may or may not take refuge in geeky-thinking-hobbies. And sensing, because frankly it takes a lot of courage to be an intuitive type in a world where it's considered "different and not normal".

    Expat, if you're reading this and frowning because we stole your thread, feel free to say so. I'm just assuming that this thread is half-expired anyway after you told others the type of that guy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    Non-popular people are more likely to try to act according to super-ego block, but they have a weaker and less-consistent personality compared to their super-ego type. Also, people seem more likely to become introverted, sensing, pseudo-thinking and perceiving. pseudo-thinking just means that they stress their "thinking abilities" and may or may not take refuge in geeky-thinking-hobbies. And sensing, because frankly it takes a lot of courage to be an intuitive type in a world where it's considered "different and not normal".
    It kinda seems to me a load of bunk, but I can't really dismiss completely. I don't know, if somebody has geeky interests then he is pseudo-thinking????:S How do you distinguish pseudo from real?
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    Non-popular people are more likely to try to act according to super-ego block, but they have a weaker and less-consistent personality compared to their super-ego type. Also, people seem more likely to become introverted, sensing, pseudo-thinking and perceiving. pseudo-thinking just means that they stress their "thinking abilities" and may or may not take refuge in geeky-thinking-hobbies. And sensing, because frankly it takes a lot of courage to be an intuitive type in a world where it's considered "different and not normal".
    It kinda seems to me a load of bunk, but I can't really dismiss completely. I don't know, if somebody has geeky interests then he is pseudo-thinking????:S How do you distinguish pseudo from real?
    By postponing typing them. Nothing else seems to help. If a person wants to seem geeky and smart (as opposed to popular), then they are very difficult to type. But not everyone with geeky interests is pseudo-thinking.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

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    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    Non-popular people are more likely to try to act according to super-ego block, but they have a weaker and less-consistent personality compared to their super-ego type. Also, people seem more likely to become introverted, sensing, pseudo-thinking and perceiving. pseudo-thinking just means that they stress their "thinking abilities" and may or may not take refuge in geeky-thinking-hobbies. And sensing, because frankly it takes a lot of courage to be an intuitive type in a world where it's considered "different and not normal".
    It kinda seems to me a load of bunk, but I can't really dismiss completely. I don't know, if somebody has geeky interests then he is pseudo-thinking????:S How do you distinguish pseudo from real?
    By postponing typing them. Nothing else seems to help. If a person wants to seem geeky and smart (as opposed to popular), then they are very difficult to type. But not everyone with geeky interests is pseudo-thinking.
    Why do they must necessarily want to "seem"? Can't they just be that way?

    Edit: I agree with Diana's posts, I haven't been called cold much, but when I had been, it was usually from Fe-dominants (ESFjs, actually)
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    why would an ExFj be calling their dual or semi-dual cold? that don't make sense. I have a theory that Fe-dominants are the most likely to vocalize something that everyone's thinking. We always end up being blamed for it. If everyone thinks that someone's a shy/quiet/cold/cheerful/mean/etc and an Fe-dominant vocalizes it, she/he gets blamed for being nasty. And the only people who might actually have something good to say about ExFjs are the least likely to say anything, so we only hear the negative. So no wonder I hated all mankind so long.

    Here's another theory - when a person is not satisfied with who s/he is, s/he'll try to be a better person. A person isn't satisfied with his/her personality when other people(the society) don't accept him/her. So actually when an Fe-dominant says something that a person didn't want to hear, then it just means that the person wasn't satisfied with her traits and how the society sees him/her. Feeling bad about it/acknowledging the problem is the first step towards improvement. Basically the Fe-type doesn't change other people. The Fe type just describes things that already exist.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    Facial expressions, body language and clothing style depend highly on a persons social position. Non-popular people are more likely to try to act according to super-ego block, but they have a weaker and less-consistent personality compared to their super-ego type. Also, people seem more likely to become introverted, sensing, pseudo-thinking and perceiving. pseudo-thinking just means that they stress their "thinking abilities" and may or may not take refuge in geeky-thinking-hobbies. And sensing, because frankly it takes a lot of courage to be an intuitive type in a world where it's considered "different and not normal".
    this is brilliant enough to deserve it's own thread
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    How is Intuition thought to be outside the norm? Intuitives are no less likely to be "popular." This is just ancient, mythical, fossilized MBTI bullshit that some people think should be dug up and dumped all over socionics.

    Also, I dont know about adopting a particular j/p preference. I've never observed this.

    While I don't think being "unpopular" would devalue extroverted qualities, I do think it would emphasize introspection and stress the use of the introverted Ego function.

    I will agree with stressing T qualities though. In fact, it's really the only deducable product of a lack of social interaction: if ethics is based on interactions with people, and interaction is lacking, then obviously the inverse process (logic) is going to be emphasized.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    i have no idea what any of the posts on the last page of this thread are talking about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilligan
    How is Intuition thought to be outside the norm? Intuitives are no less likely to be "popular." This is just ancient, mythical, fossilized MBTI bullshit that some people think should be dug up and dumped all over socionics.

    Also, I dont know about adopting a particular j/p preference. I've never observed this.

    While I don't think being "unpopular" would devalue extroverted qualities, I do think it would emphasize introspection and stress the use of the introverted Ego function.

    I will agree with stressing T qualities though. In fact, it's really the only deducable product of a lack of social interaction: if ethics is based on interactions with people, and interaction is lacking, then obviously the inverse process (logic) is going to be emphasized.
    I've got 2 parents, so IMO people look at me funny when I express thoughts. Somehow people seem to have an attitude that my thoughts aren't "real" enough. Mhh... Now that I think about it, I've just heard that I ought to be more and I heard that mostly from an ENFp. ("stop being such an airhead", "You're *oh* so absent-minded", etc).

    I rephrase: unpopular people are more likely to act unstable and out-of-control. Might even get a "flickering" personality (=rapid unexpected behavioral changes). Therefore they seem more xxxp.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

    Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
    New blog: http://having-a-kid.blogspot.com/

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